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nutmac

macrumors 603
Mar 30, 2004
6,074
7,384
I was being hyperbolic, but still...last I heard there were only 2 or 3 states that released an app that utilizes the COVID exposure API. IIRC North Dakota and one other state. Maybe there's a third by now.
For many states, such as California, you don't need to install any app. They use iOS's Exposure Notifications Express app framework, which can be activated from Settings | Exposure Notifications.

List of states that support Exposure Notification:
  1. Alabama (app)
  2. Arizona (app)
  3. California (express)
  4. Colorado (express)
  5. Connecticut (express)
  6. Delaware (app)
  7. District of Columbia (express)
  8. Hawaii (app)
  9. Louisiana (app)
  10. Maryland (express)
  11. Michigan (app)
  12. Minnesota (express)
  13. Nevada (express)
  14. New Jersey (app)
  15. New York (app)
  16. North Carolina (app)
  17. North Dakota (app)
  18. Pennsylvania (app)
  19. South Carolina (app)
  20. Virginia (app)
  21. Washington (express)
  22. Wisconsin (express)
  23. Wyoming (app)
Coming soon:
  • Oregon
 
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Queues

macrumors member
Jul 28, 2020
60
112
I was being hyperbolic, but still...last I heard there were only 2 or 3 states that released an app that utilizes the COVID exposure API. IIRC North Dakota and one other state. Maybe there's a third by now.

Regardless, it was months of effort on the part of Apple and Google, and virtually no one implemented it. It would be a lot more useful if it were actually usable everywhere.

Apple and Google should've just developed their own app rather than leaving that responsibility to states whose leaders either won't spend the money to develop the app or outright believe the entire pandemic is a political hoax. Meanwhile, the COVID exposure API and all that work is effectively useless to most of the country.
It’s in the original post: “Apple's Exposure Notifications system is now available in a wide range of countries, and many states have also adopted it, including North Dakota, Arizona, Delaware, Nevada, Alabama, Colorado, Wyoming, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Maryland, New York, New Jersey, Minnesota, Washington, Connecticut, Nevada, the District of Columbia, and California.”
 

manu chao

macrumors 604
Jul 30, 2003
7,220
3,031
A constant-on bluetooth to track who I meet with? As a sex worker I find this does not respect my privacy.
It doesn't track people or their phones. It tracks random numbers generated by the phones that you come close to for some minimum amount of time. And it only stores those on your phone, not on any server. And doesn't even give you or any app on your phone access to these randomly generated numbers (except for a COVID tracing app registered with Apple as being from a national or regional health authority).

It's impossible to associate those numbers to anything unless one specific thing happens: One of the persons you had some contact with tests positive, is sent a code by a certified lab, scans this code and then uploads the random numbers their phone had generated to a server managed by the health authorities. Your own phone regularly checks this server if some of the random numbers it had been storing have been 'flagged' as coming from a person having tested positive.

Oh, and all data older than 14 days is automatically deleted.
 

TTTedP

macrumors 6502
Nov 27, 2017
334
357
The problem is (in my state at least) you need a code to enter when positive to have it push notifications to all the other devices you encountered. Everyone in my household caught Covid in Dec, confirmed with positive tests from the county health dept, and not a single call from a contact tracer or way to self-notify the app that we're positive. That and it drains the battery quicker. It is now uninstalled.

We tried to do the right thing. But the app and the system failed.
 
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hot-gril

macrumors 68000
Jul 11, 2020
1,924
1,966
Northern California, USA
For many states, such as California, you don't need to install any app.
It says I have to, and I live in CA. "You cannot turn on Exposure Logging without an authorized app installed." - Settings

It doesn't tell me which app to download. Searching "covid19 California" on the App Store yields no results. Googling that links me to CA Notify, which tells me there is no app, updated to 12.5 or later then go to Settings. I'm on 13.x. So, idk at this point, but I've lost interest. This stuff needs to be easy if people are going to use it.
 
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manu chao

macrumors 604
Jul 30, 2003
7,220
3,031
This stuff is so creepy. What an unnatural use for technology. Booo. Boooo.
How many apps do you allow to track your location? Compared to a system that only collects randomly generated IDs that cannot be associated to anybody unless somebody tests positive and decides to uploads their personal set of randomly generated IDs.
 

hot-gril

macrumors 68000
Jul 11, 2020
1,924
1,966
Northern California, USA
How many apps do you allow to track your location? Compared to a system that only collects randomly generated IDs that cannot be associated to anybody unless somebody tests positive and decides to uploads their personal set of randomly generated IDs.
+ every cellphone's location is tracked by the carriers, and that data is horribly mishandled
 

manu chao

macrumors 604
Jul 30, 2003
7,220
3,031
That's great and all for the 14 people who live in a state that actually authorized and released a compliant COVID app.

But meanwhile after waiting through the entire holiday season, there's still no iOS 14.3.1 release to fix the myriad of issues plaguing iOS 14.3 is disappointing. Still waiting on a fix for:
  • Mail app badge and mail list don't update consistently
  • MagSafe cases cause lock sound to "glitch" intermittently
  • Cellular modem crashes and loses connectivity when connected to a 5G network that uses DSS, needs firmware update
  • Swipe up to unlock sometimes stutters and doesn't work, and swiping up to go home often stutters and opens app switcher
  • Display issues: yellow screen tint and/or dark glow when displaying black areas on screen
  • Volume issues: system sounds like keyboard clicks and lock sounds are intermittently quieter or louder than volume setting
Yeah, 3000 people dying per day in the U.S. is less important than those issues? Not saying this system could save most of those people. But even if it prevented just 1% of all new infections, it could safe about 30 lives every day.
 

manu chao

macrumors 604
Jul 30, 2003
7,220
3,031
Why? Why even do this? Phones only capable of running 12.X code are a cesspool of unfixed bugs, that’s why they are EOL. Why give anyone a false sense of usability when they can be powned and now you’re re-encouraging more medical data be stored on an insecure device?
Because how many people exactly would have upgraded to iOS 13+ capable phones just to get Exposure Notification?
 
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nutmac

macrumors 603
Mar 30, 2004
6,074
7,384
It says I have to, and I live in CA. "You cannot turn on Exposure Logging without an authorized app installed." - Settings

It doesn't tell me which app to download. Searching "covid19 California" on the App Store yields no results. Googling that links me to CA Notify, which tells me there is no app, updated to 12.5 or later then go to Settings. I'm on 13.x. So, idk at this point, but I've lost interest. This stuff needs to be easy if people are going to use it.
Which version of iOS 13? You need to run iOS 13.7 or later for exposure notifications express support.
 
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ArtOfWarfare

macrumors G3
Nov 26, 2007
9,572
6,083
If you are skeptical, go to Settings | Exposure Notifications | Exposure Notification Status (not available unless you are participating), then Exposure Checks. Look through each log entry.

If you step outside at least few times a week and live in a decently sized city, you will probably note at least a handful of "Matched Key Count" here and there. "Match Key Count" corresponds to ANY exposure to those tested positive within 2 weeks. These timestamps correspond to when the database is updated, not when you were exposed. iPhone scans and logs Exposure Notifications enabled devices within 33 feet and when the database matches, "Match Key County" is incremented.

You will be notified according to the state/country's notification threshold. In California where I live, the threshold is within 6 feet and 15 minutes or longer. CA derives these values after months of testing, as to reduce false positives (e.g., you are in a car next to infected or would-be-infected).
I just checked every state in New England. None of Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, or Vermont permit this API to be activated. Connecticut is the only state in the northeast that allows it. Given I haven't been in Connecticut since early June, I don't know whether it'd make sense for me to use theirs or not.

(I live right on the border between MA and NH, and Maine is only a 15 minute drive away... I spend some time in each state multiple days per week, thus why I bother checking multiple states at all.)
 

JM

macrumors 601
Nov 23, 2014
4,082
6,373
Can you explain what's so creepy about it?

I am a developer and my developer friends and I did a deep dive on how this feature is implemented on the iOS side. Nothing at all strikes me as even remotely creepy.

Logging randomized Bluetooth ID of nearby devices (within 33 feet), which changes every 15 minutes and cannot be traced back to a specific user, and storing only on your device and not on the cloud is certainly private enough. And the feature only notifies you if those tested positive manually and voluntarily logs the positive test results.

Where is the privacy concern here?
Nice!

did you and your friends find if this logging still occurs WITHOUT the toggle being on?

In other words: is *the ios capable of running COVID tracking* still doing these Bluetooth checks on phones that haven't turned on the notifications?

thank you :)
 

nutmac

macrumors 603
Mar 30, 2004
6,074
7,384
I just checked every state in New England. None of Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, or Vermont permit this API to be activated. Connecticut is the only state in the northeast that allows it. Given I haven't been in Connecticut since early June, I don't know whether it'd make sense for me to use theirs or not.

(I live right on the border between MA and NH, and Maine is only a 15 minute drive away... I spend some time in each state multiple days per week, thus why I bother checking multiple states at all.)
The entire US rollout is a clusterf. This effort should've been handled at the federal level. Worse, both Apple and Google's Exposure Notifications allow only a single active region. Non-active region does not collect data and cannot push notifications. (I am guessing this is to prevent local database from becoming very large.)

I once lived in Nashua, New Hampshire but the office was in Andover, Massachusetts. In this case, I have to compromise and pick a single region for Exposure Notifications.

Hopefully, the US government will learn from this debacle and create laws for more cohesive and unified plans in the future.
 

nutmac

macrumors 603
Mar 30, 2004
6,074
7,384
did you and your friends find if this logging still occurs WITHOUT the toggle being on?

In other words: is *the ios capable of running COVID tracking* still doing these Bluetooth checks on phones that haven't turned on the notifications?
No, none of us did network level snooping. Only the source code and API available on Apple's website.

If you don't choose active Exposure Notification region, iOS isn't tracking anything. You can partially verify by going to Settings | Battery. Exposure Notifications use non-insignificant amount of battery.
 
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jicon

macrumors 6502a
Nov 29, 2004
804
625
Toronto, ON
I question the value of this - has a single infection been discovered thanks to this API? It seems so neutered as to be utterly useless.
Yes. It does rely on people running the API, and those notified of infection to enter the code in to the app to alert others though.

One of the pushbacks in Canada at least was requirement of iPhone 6S or later, as a fair number of elderly couldn't afford a newer device. Ultimately there are some compromises... Apps need to be written to allow use of older iPhones. Those older devices use older versions of Bluetooth, so likely a bit more battery concern on an older device, but this at least gives one other option to those capable of running it.
 

az431

Suspended
Sep 13, 2008
2,131
6,122
Portland, OR
That's great and all for the 14 people who live in a state that actually authorized and released a compliant COVID app.

But meanwhile after waiting through the entire holiday season, there's still no iOS 14.3.1 release to fix the myriad of issues plaguing iOS 14.3 is disappointing. Still waiting on a fix for:
  • Mail app badge and mail list don't update consistently
  • MagSafe cases cause lock sound to "glitch" intermittently
  • Cellular modem crashes and loses connectivity when connected to a 5G network that uses DSS, needs firmware update
  • Swipe up to unlock sometimes stutters and doesn't work, and swiping up to go home often stutters and opens app switcher
  • Display issues: yellow screen tint and/or dark glow when displaying black areas on screen
  • Volume issues: system sounds like keyboard clicks and lock sounds are intermittently quieter or louder than volume setting

I'm not a math or geography whiz, but a quick visit to Wikipedia and some back of the napkin math suggests that the 23 states where this is available number around 200 million people, not "14".

And I am fairly certain that the Apple engineers working on iOS aren't moonlighting as indpendent contractors writing COVID apps for those 23 states (and therefore wasting time that could be spent fixing bugs as you allege).
 
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JM

macrumors 601
Nov 23, 2014
4,082
6,373
No, none of us did network level snooping. Only the source code and API available on Apple's website.

If you don't choose active Exposure Notification region, iOS isn't tracking anything. You can partially verify by going to Settings | Battery. Exposure Notifications use non-insignificant amount of battery.
Cool thanks. I was wondering if the tracking was using significant battery
 
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