Apple Music Apple to do lossless streaming?

[Webcat86]

So I came to this thread based solely on listening observations and further research which sadly proved that even CD quality streaming is not possible via Airplay at the moment. Streaming Tidal and physical media through Roon all have noticeable improvements in sound quality on my system. Hmmmm…

Well it turns out Apple Music is currently transcoding all lossless ALAC to AAC over Airplay!

Apple Music HiFi Tier incoming?

Hi @Simon-in-Suffolk et all, Currently Apple are forcing an aac link on Airplay2 when using Apple Music, even if the ui is saying lossless. This was documented on one of their FAQ pages. So example: Now lets turn on the internal metrics airplay2 trace: Observe the aac 256kbit link...

community.naimaudio.com

You might have just upset a bunch of people in this thread...

Wow, that’s surprising, considering Apples hype about (hi-res) lossless.
But as far as I understand this (AAC) limitation is only occuring when using Apple Music (Streaming? Downloaded Content?) and in combination with Airplay 2.
Just emphasizing it is not a general constraint of the protocol but an active doing of Apple under certain circumstances.

Do you mean will Apple Music deliver higher quality music if not using AirPlay 2? If so, it depends on what you're doing - headphones connected to your iPhone, iPad or Mac will deliver lossless. Apple TV can deliver lossless but not Apple's Hi-Res Lossless option. HomePod has apparently been updated to play lossless using AirPlay, suggesting this is a test case before a wider rollout

 

[Spankey]

Wow, that’s surprising, considering Apples hype about (hi-res) lossless.
But as far as I understand this (AAC) limitation is only occuring when using Apple Music (Streaming? Downloaded Content?) and in combination with Airplay 2.
Just emphasizing it is not a general constraint of the protocol but an active doing of Apple under certain circumstances.

That's what it appears to be. I haven't tested downloading a track to my device and streaming the local file. There seem to be a few things Apple needs to fix in regards to Lossless Audio:

• Fix Airplay 2 streaming to at least CD quality Apple says it is capable of. (Hi-Res Lossless would be nice).
• Allow Hi-Res Lossless from Apple TV. The device is capable. No reason this is not supported.
• Allow Lossless audio from Apple Music apps on non Apple Devices. (Playstation, Xbox, Roon, BluOS)

 

[Spankey]

I know these are not John Darko's findings, but the video is great at explaining this. Sorry Apple! I think this is unacceptable especially given all the statements that Airplay 2 offers CD quality audio.

 

[HDFan]

The key chart from the video:

 

[headlessmike]

The key chart from the video:

View attachment 2307002

I do wonder how universal this is? My Mac running Sonoma will switch to AAC playback when connecting to my AirPlay 1 receiver (a Yamaha stereo receiver with built-in AirPlay), but my iPad sticks to lossless ALAC on the same receiver (both from the Music app). Both are obviously AirPlay 2 compatible sources, but give different results. I wouldn't be surprised if the right combination of AirPlay 2 hardware did allow lossless playback too.

 

[Yodalogger]

Does anyone know if the "AirPlay Receiver" for mac outputs in Hires lossless (24/192)? For example, if I had a mac mini connected to a DAC (capable of 24/192) via USB and I selected that mac mini as the output for a Apple Music HiRes lossless song(24/192) from my iPhone or iPad or even a macbook, would the output be 24/192 or something else?

 

[arw]

My Mac running Sonoma will switch to AAC playback when connecting to my AirPlay 1 receiver

From my understanding, if it is an AirPlay 1 receiver, it can only accept ALAC. Even if the playback is AAC, it will still get converted (upscaled) to ALAC for transmission to the AirPlay 1 receiver.

I wouldn't be surprised if the right combination of AirPlay 2 hardware did allow lossless playback too.

Correct. Per the video: AirPlay 2 compatible hardware does not automatically force AirPlay 2. The app's developer can still set AirPlay 1 to be used - meaning ALAC 16-bit/44,1kHz.

Does anyone know if the "AirPlay Receiver" for mac outputs in Hires lossless (24/192)?

No matter the source quality or what the DAC of the receiving Mac is capable of, the AirPlay protocol for Macs and iDevices is limited to ALAC 16-bit/44,1kHz (48kHz).
HomePod seems to be an exception: Apparently it can stream up to 24-bit/48kHz to other HomePods.

If you force 24/192 on the DAC, this will be the output. But the data it receives via AirPlay is limited to 16/44,1 and will get upsampled.

Edit: The only way make use of HiRes lossless and the DAC is to directly connect it to your Mac/iPhone/iPad via USB/Lightning/30-pin.
If you use the Remote.app for iOS/iPadOS you can control the Mac's Music.app and play HiRes content.

 

[Yodalogger]

I guess you could use the Remote app to control a mac mini (connected to a 24/192 capable DAC) but that's only for songs in your library or take over the mac mini via screen share to chase the elusive bit perfect stream...

Or just enjoy 16/44.1 via AirPlay.

 

[headlessmike]

From my understanding, if it is an AirPlay 1 receiver, it can only accept ALAC. Even if the playback is AAC, it will still get converted (upscaled) to ALAC for transmission to the AirPlay 1 receiver.

That's what I always assumed too. But for some reason the Music app on my Mac mini running Sonoma will disable lossless playback when connected to my AirPlay 1 receiver. Maybe because it's a third-party receiver (Yamaha). As I mentioned though, my iPad doesn't do that.

 

[Celf]

I've tried to stream Apple Lossless music (streamed and downloaded) to several receivers with integrated or external dacs. I only got AAC, no matter what I did. For me it makes playing Apple Lossless too hard (use iPad, cable, usb dongle etc) to simply enjoy the music and therefore a commercial gimmick. Why offering lossless when it is almost impossible to enjoy the extra quality?

 

[headlessmike]

I've tried to stream Apple Lossless music (streamed and downloaded) to several receivers with integrated or external dacs. I only got AAC, no matter what I did. For me it makes playing Apple Lossless too hard (use iPad, cable, usb dongle etc) to simply enjoy the music and therefore a commercial gimmick. Why offering lossless when it is almost impossible to enjoy the extra quality?

From a Mac or iPad? I have a USB dac connected to my Mac and have never had any difficulties playing back even high-res audio from Apple Music.

 

[DaPhox]

Yeah I’ve learned a few things in this thread, and I can see my original question may have not been clear that I didn’t mean like “can I stream from AM to my iPhone in lossless” and specifically meant can I stream *from* an Apple device to a receiving device in lossless.

It’s reassuring to know that it can be done in CD quality.

As for how the receiver works - I’m open to whatever method. Certainly happy to use AirPlay instead of the device accessing it directly, although my understanding at the moment is that one reason AM can’t stream (to a receiver) in its Hi Res Lossless is because it transmits from the Apple device, whereas other companies, like Tidal, let the device access their content directly. I’m not sure how accurate that is but it’s what I’ve heard.

What prompted this thread was reading that Apple would be changing the current limitation so that Hi Res Lossless could be streamed as well, allowing people to hear above CD quality. But when I read it, it was unsubstantiated and this seemed like an appropriate audience to ask if anyone was aware of such a rumour.

One cannot ”hear above CD quality”. This Thread is confusing…

 

[Celf]

From a Mac or iPad? I have a USB dac connected to my Mac and have never had any difficulties playing back even high-res audio from Apple Music.

From my iPhone and from an iPad. I don't want to buy another device and cable just to play music using my Mac or iPad.