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ginkobiloba

macrumors 6502a
Jul 2, 2007
634
1,785
Paris
And also in the Middle East migrant workers from places like India are treated appallingly. Look at the vast deaths building the Qatar World Cup stadiums - there were no deaths building the Olympic stadiums in London and only six in Beijing - when Qatar has been richer than the UK since world war 2, so there is no excuse for not following modern health and safety standards.
What does this have anything to do with abortion ? :confused:
I'm not trying to prove that those countries are perfect and a gift to humanity and that the west is terrible. Who ever claimed here, even remotely, that Qatar was the most perfect place on earth ? How did we jump from "No, abortion is not illegal there" to the assumption that "It's a perfect place " ?

Again, what's with this binary thinking ?

The fact that another non-western country is not the complete hell you'd like to believe doesn't make the country you live in any bad .
It's not like things have to be ABSOLUTELY perfect or else they are ABSOLUTELY terrible. Others don't have to be terrible for you to feel good about yourself. . ( I'm saying that in general terms, groups, country, etc.. not in personal terms )

Ok I give up :D Let me reassure you :
WEST = SUPERIOR ON EVERY LEVEL AND PERFECT
EVERYWHERE ELSE ON THE PLANET = ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE ON EVERY LEVEL and a S**THOLE
Pheeew....we can take a deep breath now. We're safe. God save the Queen.
I'm out.
 
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Eraserhead

macrumors G4
Nov 3, 2005
10,434
12,250
UK
Ok I give up :D Let me reassure you :
WEST = SUPERIOR ON EVERY LEVEL AND PERFECT
EVERYWHERE ELSE ON THE PLANET = ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE ON EVERY LEVEL and a S**THOLE
Pheeew....we can take a deep breath now. We're safe. God save the Queen.
I'm out.

Actually in this discussion alone I've complemented Chinese policy for being superior to western policy...

And I've also bought up Japanese and Indian policy as being decent and criticised policy in Ireland and Chile.

In the past I've also been extremely critical of Israeli policy.
 
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Benjamin Frost

Suspended
May 9, 2015
2,405
5,001
London, England
Ok, but that's assuming it takes women significantly longer than men to learn how to use Apple products. Do you think that is the case?

It's amusing that you automatically think I meant women would need significantly longer.

Men and women have different strengths. Having segregated workshops means that they will be tailor-made to both. Also, because men tend to be naturally dominant in group situations, it will allow a lot of women to feel more at ease with asking questions.
 
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springsup

macrumors 65816
Feb 14, 2013
1,229
1,225
Sure, they're entitled to have concerns. If someone find homosexuality immoral or reprehensible for whatever reason that's ok, I don't care. But killing people for being gay is not a "concern", it's murder. Can we not judge murderers? You talk about how our forefathers committed atrocities, but people today still hold them accountable for it and judge them for horrible things that they've done. What's the difference between them and people who are alive today?

It's funny how if a baker in the USA refuses to bake a cake for a gay wedding all these people come out saying that their bigotry should not be tolerated and they should be forced by law to bake cakes for gay weddings or have their businesses shut down. The baker is not hurting anyone, yet a lot of liberals believe that they should be forced by law to not discriminate against gay people. But if it's gay people being killed for being gay on the other side of the world... then it's a different culture, we shouldn't judge them etc etc. Seems like a double standard.

It is absolutely a double standard - because those countries were never on the same standard! Don't you understand? You're judging the Middle East by American standards. It's like if I told scorned you for being a bad Muslim -- it makes absolutely no sense, because you were never a Muslim to begin with and never signed up to be judged by Islam's standards!

Yes, we can behave negatively towards Americans who discriminate against gay people, because it is against the declared spirit of the country and its constitution, which is to provide 'liberty and justice for all'. We are part of that society, we can judge them for their part in it.

When it comes to the Middle-East, it's a totally different culture. I can't even begin to describe how their entire way of thinking of themselves and their place in the world is entirely different. Their countries are based on Sharia law, and their goal is to follow the Koran as closely as they can, NOT to provide 'liberty and justice for all'. They never claimed to be a free country. Just like Israel defines itself as a "Jewish state" and not a sectarian one, many of these countries see themselves as Islamic ones. You might not agree that it's the best way to run a country, but that's how the world is and we have to accept that the situation is as we find it.

I'm not saying that what they do is right; we should do what we can to mitigate the loss of life (for example, by providing asylum in a society which is more accepting of these people). It's a much more nuanced point than "we're right; you're wrong" though. We act like the society we want to be, and they'll act like the society they want to be. With dialog and cultural exchange, the change that each society needs will come.

The one thing you can't do is force other people to see things your way and to agree to your morals and standards. They are people in their own society; they judge themselves, and they will always judge themselves. You, as a social outsider, will never have the right to judge them. Even in the USA, you accept justice only when it is dealt by your social peers. That is crucial to everything.
 

LIVEFRMNYC

macrumors G3
Oct 27, 2009
8,780
10,844
It's amusing that you automatically think I meant women would need significantly longer.

Men and women have different strengths. Having segregated workshops means that they will be tailor-made to both. Also, because men tend to be naturally dominant in group situations, it will allow a lot of women to feel more at ease with asking questions.

From my own experience being in countless business meetings in the States, Women can be as naturally dominating when given the chance. They can be as cunning, ruthless, and mentally strong as any man.

I've served in the Military with women, been on team projects for multiple companies with women, and even had a women vigorously train me to complete the Empire State Building Run Up. The only thing us men have over women is physical strength(not endurance).

Anything that's so-called tailor made for women is representative of how women are viewed as in that specific area. And also shows the fear for women's actual potential. God forbid muslim women pick up on things faster than the men. :eek:
 

Eraserhead

macrumors G4
Nov 3, 2005
10,434
12,250
UK
It is absolutely a double standard - because those countries were never on the same standard! Don't you understand? You're judging the Middle East by American standards. It's like if I told scorned you for being a bad Muslim -- it makes absolutely no sense, because you were never a Muslim to begin with and never signed up to be judged by Islam's standards!

Yes, we can behave negatively towards Americans who discriminate against gay people, because it is against the declared spirit of the country and its constitution, which is to provide 'liberty and justice for all'. We are part of that society, we can judge them for their part in it.

When it comes to the Middle-East, it's a totally different culture. I can't even begin to describe how their entire way of thinking of themselves and their place in the world is entirely different. Their countries are based on Sharia law, and their goal is to follow the Koran as closely as they can, NOT to provide 'liberty and justice for all'. They never claimed to be a free country. Just like Israel defines itself as a "Jewish state" and not a sectarian one, many of these countries see themselves as Islamic ones. You might not agree that it's the best way to run a country, but that's how the world is and we have to accept that the situation is as we find it.

I'm not saying that what they do is right; we should do what we can to mitigate the loss of life (for example, by providing asylum in a society which is more accepting of these people). It's a much more nuanced point than "we're right; you're wrong" though. We act like the society we want to be, and they'll act like the society they want to be. With dialog and cultural exchange, the change that each society needs will come.

The one thing you can't do is force other people to see things your way and to agree to your morals and standards. They are people in their own society; they judge themselves, and they will always judge themselves. You, as a social outsider, will never have the right to judge them. Even in the USA, you accept justice only when it is dealt by your social peers. That is crucial to everything.

The Koran says nothing on abortion and only says stuff on homosexuality in Leviticus. Even so lesbianism isn't legal - nor are the punishments for male-male sex the same as those for eating a bacon sandwich, wearing mixed fabric clothing or sleeping with ones wife on her period.

The Koran also doesn't say that you have to treat migrant workers like slaves as is common across the Middle East.
 

jweinraub

macrumors 6502
Jun 26, 2007
371
219
Sol III
I suspect it's a small market. iPhones are subject to a 35% import tax there. More evidence is that Apple half-assed the OS X Arabic and Hebrew localizations by not mirroring the UI, where Microsoft has done it correctly since Windows 98. iOS didn't do it right either until 9.
Which really didn't stop Israelis from bringing in in iPhones from abroad before they were even sold in the country. Though when you say small market, that is compared to the global market or percent of Israelis that would own one? As from what I seen the last several times I'd been there, mostly everyone has one, and if they don't it is a Samsung. So the market is there, it is the taxes you state. They are very expensive. But they do have authorised resellers but I think sooner or later they will have a retail store. Hopefully in Tel Aviv.
 

B4U

macrumors 68040
Oct 11, 2012
3,590
4,055
Undisclosed location
Eh, with the Internet now you sorta can. As an individual, why would it be harder to convince an American to adopt some principal as opposed to someone living in a different country? Assuming of course they are of similar intelligence, are open to new ideas etc etc.
We have tried and failed so many times, didn't we?
 
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