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Apple's U.S. Workforce Continues to Diversify Per Latest Federal Data
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Separating us into "races" based on skin color is nothing more than a social construct. It serves no other purpose than to divide us into groups, and award special protections or privileges to said groups.
Trying to say that diversity comes from skin color instead of content of character or ideas only feeds into that type of nonsense. Saying we need to forcibly set a given proportion of employees as a certain skin tone doesn't accomplish anything except showing you're more concerned with outward appearance than qualifications.
Trying to say that diversity comes from skin color instead of content of character or ideas only feeds into that type of nonsense. Saying we need to forcibly set a given proportion of employees as a certain skin tone doesn't accomplish anything except showing you're more concerned with outward appearance than qualifications.
Competence isn't all that counts. Life isn't fair. What counts is that we fix the oppression by giving opportunities. Are we going to hire complete idiots? No. But sometimes you have to take a chance on someone who isn't quite a top candidate when you consider all the BS they had to wade through just to get where they are. You have to admire people like that and that sort of determination far outweighs what a piece of paper says about them. What's racist is that these people have to struggle for so long just to get a decent job. To be blunt: black kids need more role models in technology and other advanced, white-dominated fields, FULL STOP. That won't happen until we start opening doors for them to succeed, build wealth in their communities, etc. It doesn't have to be this way. And that's just one minority group.
Here's the deal: These people's ancestors were taken from their homeland and dropped here. They were treated like crap until just a few decades ago. Now they're just treated like crap in private—through racial slurs thrown at them randomly when others aren't around, or by being denied jobs for no reason, or by people being afraid of them. They get put into these communities in the crappy part of town and left to rot for generations. Then we're all surprised that they often choose crime, violence, drugs, etc. And the ones that do that are far from the majority. But they still get marginalized and lumped in with the bad, which only serves to make things worse and make them feel like they really are this worthless being that might as well go steal because the odds are so highly stacked against them. Desperation is a hell of a drug. And as a fairly new parent, I can say that there isn't much that I wouldn't be willing to do to make sure she is fed if worse comes to worse. Luckily I have a nice job with a big savings account and a house quickly building equity, so I don't have to think about such horrors.
This problem isn't easy to fix. But the biggest thing that changed my views in the past year was to just listen and try to empathize—which admittedly doesn't come naturally to me. I have to work at it. There are always extremists on both sides. But when you sit down and listen to normal people just like you talk about these issues respectfully (and not scream and shout and riot), it really brings it home. Especially when you see a consistent picture across so many unrelated people. It's amazing how this can be such a big problem today. It's easy to say that if we stop bringing up racism that it would just go away. But that's not how this works. It's still perpetuated by a small group of people within the majority. And unfortunately, due to recent events, it's breeding more racism in our young people who don't understand because their life situation is so drastically different. As in most things, communication is key and that has been atrocious.
I don't know how to fix it, but we all need to start listening to each other. I realize that sounds like a fluffy statement, but I'm serious and sincere. Really open up your heart and prepare your mind by suppressing any preconceived notions. Then listen to that person sitting in front of you. Think of them as you would your mom or your brother. Would you let them be treated this way? It's an outrage.
I'm referring to racism only, which I see personally in many places I travel to. Not headlines that are kept in the media. Was not referring to employment at all. I think as we progress culturally and are more accepting as a society, the hateful people unwilling to change are just becoming more obvious. Like when gay marriage was made a federal law ... that brought out all kinds of nasty people. I do think we are making progress, it just takes time.
Thanks. Lately I've been ashamed to mention where I work. But realistically there are tons of regular people here who empathize and are not racist. We're not just some hicks in a flyover state. There are lots of smart people here doing amazing research. Personally I've never heard a racist comment. I think a lot of this is boiling over from St. Louis as many kids here are from there. But the problems at the top have been simmering up for a few years now. And if anything Loftin was more of a problem than Wolfe, trying to turn the University into a big business but without clear direction. So many people outside the university were surprised that the chancellor was axed later the same day, but nobody here was. And Wolfe really did leave of his own accord—I am personally friends with a guy on his communications team. But to be fair he should have done more to reign in the problems here on this campus, which is one of several that he presided over. Communication from the top to the faculty and staff was lacking, to put it nicely. I can only imagine how the students must really feel, even after listening to them. If I was paying a crapload of money for college (which I have at Missouri State down to the south), I would be furious if the top level officials had marginalized me as much as they did. Fortunately there are lots of good people here working to fix things. People who finally have some power and sway after we cleaned house and deployed all the golden parachutes. So I'm really hopeful for the future!
My opinions here do not necessarily reflect those of the University of Missouri and are my own.
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Those are also some good points. Most don't even get a fair shake on even footing! But my point was that in a field with so few black candidates compared to other races, it's especially important to make different considerations—at least at the start. We need companies that are bold enough to be the catalyst that starts the change! You definitely seem to be an exceptional candidate, so I hope that you are somehow blessed with time to mentor and be a great example in your community to young people of any color. Young people need to know that all of your hard work paid off and that they can make it and will be given a fair shot. And we need these companies to realize how amazing these candidates really are.
FWIW, here's some simple math, taken straight from the EEO-1 report (male + female):
White: 59.46% (lower than U.S. demo; estimated ~63%)
Black: 8.67% (lower than U.S. demo; estimated ~13%)
Hispanic: 11.75% (lower than U.S. demo; estimated ~16%)
Asian: 17.36% (much higher than U.S. demo; estimated ~5%)
Islander: 0.50% (about right)
Native: 0.37% (about right)
Mixed: 1.90% (about right)
I combined male + female because there are many factors that affect male and female participation in the labor force in any given year. But race is fairly easy to compare to. When based on U.S. demographics, Apple is actually skewing overwhelmingly Asian, overall. Although at the executive/senior level, whites occupy 83% of the positions, so over by about 20%. That's around 18 positions.
It's definitely not what one would consider "overwhelmingly white" though.
It's the only fair measure and the one that matters most when results count.
Right. We've fixed the unfairness by making overt discrimination illegal.
Life isn't fair, but people should be.
We need excellence, not mediocrity. So your reassurance does anything but reassure.
Everybody has a sad story to tell. The way to improve the lot for a mistreated minority is not to mistreat other people.
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Proof, if any were needed, that prejudice is part of the human condition.
When we have true diversity, there will still be hate for The Other.
Thanks for providing such a good example.
I understand your point but the experience of growing up poor isn't limited to any race, you should visit south Georgia or West Virginia and see the poverty. Someone who grew up in poverty in an area with extremely limited opportunity shouldn't be discriminated against on the basis of them being white.
And it would also be wise of you to answer questions that were actually asked of "you". I didn't ask you that question initially. Chill.
In a place where discrimination is rife, you can be sure that they are not hiring the best employees no matter what their race / gender. Hiring the best employees available will increase diversity.
OK. Fish aren't aware of water.
The hate and prejudice in the post I replied to were evident, but if you agree with his or her opinions, of course you wouldn't pick up on any of that.
As you don't pick up on your own hate and prejudice.
You also fail to understand that historical advantages have made you blind to the fact that you are not being discriminated against in any way.
IMHO - the gist of the comment was that if a white male can't make it in the current society that is skewed for his success then he isn't any good at his chosen field.
Don't see any hate in that statement.
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As you don't pick up on your own hate and prejudice.
You also fail to understand that historical advantages have made you blind to the fact that you are not being discriminated against in any way.
IMHO - the gist of the comment was that if a white male can't make it in the current society that is skewed for his success then he isn't any good at his chosen field.
Don't see any hate in that statement.
Such artifical diversity is just another form of racism and hypocrisy. People should be treated equally regardless of their race.
I grew up in the East Bay of the San Francisco Bay Area. I have been discriminated against my entire life for being a White male. Nobody ever believes me when I tell them that. It heartens me to know that they will finally begin to believe me.
I go to school career days.
I speak at the local continuation school.
I have been invited as an alum to speak at my old colleges.
I think that if companies want a more diverse work force then they are going about it all wrong.
Apple gives money to HBCU's but what they and other tech companies should be doing is looking at STEM at young ages.
The whole H1B thing is problem for me and not just because it affects black candidates.
You want to talk about broken things in tech.
The H1B program should be scrapped and re-done.
Read this if you have any doubt:
http://www.infoworld.com/article/3004501/h1b/proof-that-h-1b-visa-abuse-is-rampant-in-tech.html
If you are a company and you want to hire an H1B, okay.
You get them for 4 years but during those years and equivalent of 50% of that annual salary gets dedicated to scholarship programs for American citizens. If in 4 years you have not found a suitable candidate, you can keep your H1B but the premium is now 75%.
There are other proposals.
But back to the topic at hand.
Those that now find themselves having to really compete for the jobs are finding without the privilege it's a lot harder than they thought. A level playing field is tough if you've always had it tilted in your favor. I never had it tilted in my favor so competing at a disadvantage is all I know.
Whiney white guys that can't make it in America, get no sympathy from me.
Weak. My posts have been that all people should be treated fairly, and that competence should be the only yardstick.
Only someone who thought techwhiz's rant was well said could find hate and prejudice in that.
What was done in the past was done by people you should go after. Not their descendants.
How can you justify mistreating innocents simply because of their skin color. To settle a score?
An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind -- Gandhi
All that matters is competence. There are plenty of people of all cultures and skin colors who can't make it in this world for a variety of reasons. What does that matter?
What matters is that there be fair requirements for filling positions. The fairest way to get the most qualified candidate is to test for competence.
Okay, I'm interested. As someone that grew up in East Oakland, I'd like to know how were you discriminated against?
Were you bullied by other kids? What?
Did you get followed in stores like I did?
Did you get picked up by the police for being "white" in the wrong neighborhood, like I did for being in a black kid in a white neighborhood where my relatives lived?
I grew up in a working class neighborhood in East Oakland with black, white, Asia, Filipino and Hispanic.
We all got along, played baseball/football, etc at the parks and school grounds, etc.
So tell me. I AM from Oakland.
People should be treated fairly and should not be judged by the color of their skin.
So fill me in when there is no white privilege in America.
Fill me in when Harvard, Yale, etc get rid of legacies, because that IS white affirmative action.
So if you want to complain, complain about the injustice that still exists in hiring and housing.
So let's be clear we are not talking about slavery.
We are talking about the American Apartheid system that we are still trying to dismantle some 40+ years after we passed laws in housing and employment that still get violated. So tell what descendants are we talking about?
Also you have not indicated how you expect to rectify the wealth that was gained through means which tilted the playing field so far in the direction of whites that almost all access to good education and wealth building was denied for multiple generations. You say the playing field is level. I'll argue that.
But that is the equivalent of holding a marathon and letting everyone train, except for a few.
On race day you say, hey, the race is open to all and expect those you did not allow to train to compete.
At no time did anyone claim mistreating an innocent was okay. Where did you get that from.
You seem to have bought into the myth that diversity programs somehow deny positions to whites and give them to unqualified people of color.
Diversity programs do no such thing and only strive to recruit QUALIFIED candidates.
So if a company choses a black man over a equally qualified white man to make sure they have a diverse work force; is there an issue? Remember BOTH are qualified.
You do realize Ghandi was a racist?
Taken from his writings:
Before Dec. 19, 1894: “A general belief seems to prevail in the Colony that the Indians are little better, if at all, than savages or the Natives of Africa. Even the children are taught to believe in that manner, with the result that the Indian is being dragged down to the position of a raw Kaffir.”
Feb. 2, 1908: “The British rulers take us to be so lowly and ignorant that they assume that, like the Kaffirs who can be pleased with toys and pins, we can also be fobbed off with trinkets.”
July 3, 1907: “Kaffirs are as a rule uncivilised – the convicts even more so. They are troublesome, very dirty and live almost like animals. Each ward contains nearly 50 to 60 of them. They often started rows and fought among themselves. The reader can easily imagine the plight of the poor Indian thrown into such company!
Please Don't Quote Ghandi in this discussion.
That is true, but overwhelmingly white men claim "reverse discrimination" when they don't get the job and lose to a person of color. Why couldn't the person have been a better candidate?
White privilege and arrogance prevents a large number of white men from accepting that someone other than a white man could be more qualified than them.
I find it absolutely amazing that, according to outraged posters here, all the good jobs must be universally handed to minorities and females, just based on all the white guys who allegedly have not gotten jobs because of some sort of affirmative action. Yet, inexplicably, most technical, engineering, scientific, and executive ranks are filled by white males, and always have been.
I think it is the appearance vs. the actual act.
I'm usually interviewing candidates for engineering positions....
Not necessarily, as "best" has nothing to do with "best mix". But getting the best person should be the goal...too bad our society systematically, knowingly and pervasively excluded blacks, females and other minorities, regardless of their qualifications, from inception until the present day. Now there is an effort to redress the bias, and the people who have benefitted the most from the old system are bitching that it's not fair now because it may affect a few of them adversely?
Is this the only conclusion people can come to about people that are in disagreement with this diversity thing? I mean honestly ... this is fast becoming a joke. The only way we're going to start seeing substantial progress is if we stop grouping people by their appearance. It's not whining about unfairness to whites ... or whatever in God's name you're making assumptions about ... or that all the people whining are "the white man" ... good grief. These threads never go anywhere except down.
Interesting. You appear to be as entrenched in your beliefs as those who claim discrimination is rampant / not rampant.
Wow.You should probably learn the difference between a conversation between 2 people and what is happening now. This is not a conversation between 2 people. If you expected privacy you should take it to pm. Not that I can remember if Macrumors even offers pm.
95% of the people posting here are so ignorant to reality that it boggles the mind they can even work a computer to write this muck.
Do you honestly not get that white men are still being favoured for jobs they are less qualified for? And that this is the reason we have to pressure companies to increase their diversity -- not so that they hire someone who isn't white and male but is less qualified, but so the more qualified non-white or/and female actually stands a chance at landing the job they deserve to be hired for in the first place.
Seriously, you should all be ashamed of yourselves.
Do you honestly not get that white men are still being favoured for jobs they are less qualified for? And that this is the reason we have to pressure companies to increase their diversity -- not so that they hire someone who isn't white and male but is less qualified, but so the more qualified non-white or/and female actually stands a chance at landing the job they deserve to be hired for in the first place.
Seriously, you should all be ashamed of yourselves.