Ask me anything: I switched from Mac to Linux because of Apple's surveillance

[crymimefireworks]

For those that switched off Apple already, share your stories! What hardware or software did you get? What was your decision like? How's it going so far?

inspired by this post below by @RightsOfBill and insight from @hashbreaker2021

2 weeks ago I purchased a Lemur Pro laptop from System76. I had just purchased a 16" MBP from Apple a year ago so I wasn't looking for a replacement. I've used Macs forever and in the past 24 months bought a MBP, iPad, Watch, Airpods pros and max. I was cheering Apple's "Mind your own business" ads. Then this CSAM bs. Bye.

If you're considering switching -- Ask me anything!

If you think switching is dumb, waste of time, aren't interested etc, I kindly request that you only observe this thread or start your own discussion thread.

I had planned on downsizing my 15” MBP for a 14” on the upcoming cycle but Apple’s actions have scrapped that. I’ve purchased and received a System76 (Pop_OS! Linux) laptop and am enjoying it with minimal learning curve. Not quite as polished as MacOS but the trade offs look acceptable.

I also am currently test driving GrapheneOS on a Pixel 5. Thus far very impressed with the experience. The obvious hurdle is iMessage with the vast majority of family and friends being in the Apple ecosystem. But once I overcome that I feel the transition should be seamless.

Especially as I reevaluate what I want out of a phone, computer and technology in general. I’m unplugging to a large extent (sold my Apple Watch years ago because I grew tired of constant notifications and distractions). I’ve deleted essentially every app from my iPhone to limit its functionality to telephony, text messaging/iMessage and email (though I’m questioning the need for that on a phone). I keep Signal and ProtonMail as well as a podcast app and third party music player for usage in the car. I don’t need news apps, social media or any of the other numerous types of apps that serve as nothing more than time sucks and turning my usage habits into their monetization.

Likewise, Linux brings back the purity and privacy of computing to the extent possible. Apple has gone so far away from being a hardware builder/software bundled and have evolved into a subscription model based upon iEverything integration. I have no interest in that. I’m beginning to extract myself from Apple’s software ecosystem as well.

Apple has forced me to re-evaluate what I want out of technology. I have decided that the convenience is no longer worth the trade off in either privacy or monetizing my online presence. I will pay to use the products that I choose. I will no longer allow myself to be the product. I thank Tim Cook for that.

It’s liberating.

I would consider Windows but it's closed source so doesn't seem like an option.

 

[Mr.Blacky]

Okay... which video editing software do you use on Linux or which would you recommend?

 

[crymimefireworks]

Okay... which video editing software do you use on Linux or which would you recommend?

Thanks for the question! I haven't tried any Linux video editors yet but am interested to hear about options. The one on my list is called Lightworks.

 

[crymimefireworks]

My System76 order:
Lemur Pro
Intel i5
500 GB SSD
16 GB RAM

Seems to be working smoothly so far. Build quality is good, better than expected. I checked out a Dell XPS 13 at Costco, that has A+ quality, I rate the System76 machine an A since it's pretty simple but sturdy.

 

[Mr.Blacky]

How do I know, which Linux version is the best? The version I tried back then (I think it was Suse Linux) sucked and I don't have time nor do I want to try 1000s of different Linux distributions. So which one is/are best?

 

[maflynn]

[MOD NOTE]
People are free to post in the thread as long as its on topic and as such some posts were removed

 

[retta283]

[MOD NOTE]
People are free to post in the thread as long as its on topic and as such some posts were removed

Shouldn't you edit the OP to omit the reference to this as a result?

 

[scvrx]

Linux. If you have Apple hardware without T1 chip and Intel every major distribution is supported.

For the beginners I recommend Pop!_OS which is Ubuntu based desktop with easy installation. You have to connect to internet to update for wifi drivers (thunderbolt- Ethernet adapter) restart and you are ready to go. Writing this on a MacBook Air 2013 with this setup.

Pop!_OS by System76

Imagine an OS for the software developer, maker and computer science professional who uses their computer as a tool to discover and create. Welcome to Pop!_OS.

pop.system76.com

Even Manjaro works out of the box:

Aside from very specific Adobe workflows or Affinity Design (which you can run on more powerful hardware under VM), this are the apps that you can enjoy under Linux:

VIdeo, Compositing, Mixing, Color Correction: DaVinci Resolve - free.

DaVinci Resolve Linux edition: How to Download and Install on Ubuntu

Tutorial on how to install DaVinci Resolve Linux 16 Or 15 free on Ubuntu 19.04, Linux Mint, Debian or CentOS using command line terminal tool...

www.how2shout.com

For Studio version recommended Linux is CentOS 7.3*
For audio production: https://www.bitwig.com/download/
For vector design: Inkscape (you can load Illustrator short-keys).
For digital painting and mixed raster/vector workflow: Krita.
For professional photography raw processing: RawTherapee https://rawtherapee.com/ and Darktable https://www.darktable.org/.
For software development there are plenty of IDE and editors that run on Linux.
For 3d modeling, compositing and animation: Blender https://www.blender.org/.

There are many more apps in Linux ecosystem for every imaginable scenario.

 

[crymimefireworks]

Linux. If you have Apple hardware without T1 chip and Intel every major distribution is supported.

For the beginners I recommend Pop!_OS which is Ubuntu based desktop with easy installation. You have to connect to internet to update for wifi drivers (thunderbolt- Ethernet adapter) restart and you are ready to go. Writing this on a MacBook Air 2013 with this setup.
Aside from very specific Adobe workflows or Affinity Design (which you can run on more powerful hardware under VM), this are the apps that you can enjoy under Linux:

VIdeo, Compositing, Mixing, Color Correction: DaVinci Resolve - free.

DaVinci Resolve Linux edition: How to Download and Install on Ubuntu

Tutorial on how to install DaVinci Resolve Linux 16 Or 15 free on Ubuntu 19.04, Linux Mint, Debian or CentOS using command line terminal tool...

www.how2shout.com

For Studio version recommended Linux is CentOS 7.3*
For audio production: https://www.bitwig.com/download/
For vector design: Inkscape (you can load Illustrator short-keys).
For digital painting and mixed raster/vector workflow: Krita.
For professional photography raw processing: RawTherapee https://rawtherapee.com/ and Darktable https://www.darktable.org/.
For software development there are plenty of IDE and editors that run on Linux.
For 3d modeling, compositing and animation: Blender https://www.blender.org/.

There are many more apps in Linux ecosystem for every imaginable scenario.

Super helpful thanks! As a newcomer to Linux myself, I'm curious about your opinion on PopOS since that's what I'm using. What about the installer makes it easier than Ubuntu? And are there other PopOS features that are meaningful to you?

 

[Mike. Just Mike.]

For those that switched off Apple already, share your stories! What hardware or software did you get? What was your decision like? How's it going so far?

inspired by this post below by @RightsOfBill and insight from @hashbreaker2021

2 weeks ago I purchased a Lemur Pro laptop from System76. I had just purchased a 16" MBP from Apple a year ago so I wasn't looking for a replacement. I've used Macs forever and in the past 24 months bought a MBP, iPad, Watch, Airpods pros and max. I was cheering Apple's "Mind your own business" ads. Then this CSAM bs. Bye.

If you're considering switching -- Ask me anything!

If you think switching is dumb, waste of time, aren't interested etc, I kindly request that you only observe this thread or start your own discussion thread.

What are you doing for watch and mobile?

 

[crymimefireworks]

What are you doing for watch and mobile?

I was hoping you had suggestions!

Phone:
Checking out Purism Librem 5, Pinephone.

It's possible Linux phones just aren't ready yet. Pinephone is in beta. Open to short term an Android with deGoogledOS, but would require myself to donate 100% equivalent of the phone to open source phone progress like Ubuntu Touch etc.

Watch:
I actually might just give it up. I have everything disabled but the activity tracking and hand washing timer. No notifications etc. So it's not that big a loss.

Thoughts?

 

[scvrx]

Super helpful thanks! As a newcomer to Linux myself, I'm curious about your opinion on PopOS since that's what I'm using. What about the installer makes it easier than Ubuntu? And are there other PopOS features that are meaningful to you?

The logic behind Linux is simple. Linux is a kernel.

What is Linux? - Linux.com

Looking to get started in Linux? Develop a good working knowledge of Linux using both the graphical interface and command line across the major Linux distribution families with The Linux Foundation’s Intro to Linux online course. Enroll for free here. (Este curso también está disponible en...

www.linux.com

On top are distribution channels - Debian, Arch, Fedora, Gento, etc.
The Desktop Environments are plenty. The main ones are Gnome and KDE. Gnome has more Mac UX, Kde more Windows UX.
I am simplifying here but in general terms this info is ok.

So, Pop!_OS is custom implementation of Gnome Desktop with tiling manager (you can activate/deactivate this by cmd/super/win key + y) the top-bar icon with mini desktops. Pop implementation can be extended with gnome-tweaks installed from the pop_store, for example you can change close,minimize.maximize to be on the left side of the window and move the dock (dash to doc) in bottom part of the desktop like in macOS.
Other useful gnome short-key is cmd/super/win + shift + up/down for changing virtual desktops.

Pop!_OS Keyboard Shortcuts

Learn how master using Pop!_OS with your keyboard.

support.system76.com

You can customize everything, install other Desktop Environments for fun:

Desktop Environment (Change)

Pop!_OS Comes with GNOME by default. Follow these instructions to install additional desktop environments.

support.system76.com

I like that this is Ubuntu/Debian based distribution and uses as an extra Flatpack instead of Snap based apps.
And I love the option of switching between normal desktop and tilling windows with a press of a key.

 

[crymimefireworks]

Appreciate the explanation! I want to support easy to use Linux for everyone. So far I've needed CLI to get my mouse working properly and install a browser. It's close to being friendly to non-tech users!

 

[Lihp8270]

Appreciate the explanation! I want to support easy to use Linux for everyone. So far I've needed CLI to get my mouse working properly and install a browser. It's close to being friendly to non-tech users!

This is the Linux issue. Needing CLI to get a mouse working and to install a browser is just crazy.

I have been interested in System76 but their prices are just poor value for money in the UK.

 

[crymimefireworks]

This is the Linux issue. Needing CLI to get a mouse working and to install a browser is just crazy.

I have been interested in System76 but their prices are just poor value for money in the UK.

Yeah Linux needs more "polish" help.

Are there other alternatives for you in the UK that support Linux-first vendors? In the USA you can get the generic "Clevo" model for about $200 less. Paying $200 for my own Linux support from System76 is a freaking bargain.

I've heard of Tuxedo something in Europe, not sure about details tho.

 

[Mike. Just Mike.]

I was hoping you had suggestions!

Phone:
Checking out Purism Librem 5, Pinephone.

It's possible Linux phones just aren't ready yet. Pinephone is in beta. Open to short term an Android with deGoogledOS, but would require myself to donate 100% equivalent of the phone to open source phone progress like Ubuntu Touch etc.

Watch:
I actually might just give it up. I have everything disabled but the activity tracking and hand washing timer. No notifications etc. So it's not that big a loss.

Thoughts?

Pinephone with PlasmaMobile seems interesting, but I don’t see any of them being super helpful.
One of the things Apple does well is selling devices which don’t have quite so many issues.

 

[scvrx]

"This is the Linux issue. Needing CLI to get a mouse working and to install a browser is just crazy."

Actually this is not true at all. You have more accessible way to setup you mouse or trackpad even better than macOS.

in the case of Pop_OS you activate the universal search with super/cmd/win key and type settings.

There are some use cases that require installing software trough terminal. In the pop-shop you have all major web-browsers excluding Brave (there is a version in snap distribution but not in flatpack.) In this case you just copy and paste three lines of commands. If you are using macOS professionally you will be familiar with macOS terminal.

But I can assure you that as a normal user you have all the software that you need with a simple search in Pop AppStore and click of the mouse.


From the cog on the right you can manage your software sources and add even more software.

There is learning curve but it is not related to using a terminal. Linux desktops are accessible and beautiful now.

They have animations and fluidity. You have even more polished desktops than Pop_OS, just check Elementary OS for macOS like experience https://elementary.io/


They just released the new version: https://blog.elementary.io/elementary-os-6-odin-released/

The main point is that you can lose some functionality and polish but gain more control over your computer and gather useful knowledge for the future in which using proprietary OS will be equal to surveillance and data mining.


I have worked with Apple computers since 1999, have bought every gizmo and iPhone available trough the years, my company was running on macs for the last 18 years, not anymore. Even people that are older Apple users than me are exiting the ecosystem and moving everything that they can to FOSS.


The message from Apple headquarters is clear: Our way or the highway.

And my answer is: Highway is more private than your plan for the future of computing.

 

[joevt]

Does Linux support 10bpc display output? HDR? 4:2:0? 4:2:2? Display Stream Compression?

In Ubuntu, I like how the Displays preferences lets you make all the changes to the displays (resolution, refresh rate, position) before having to click Apply so that you don't need to wait for the display to accept each change one at a time. But the UI is missing some options/info that you get in Windows. macOS gives you next to no info/options.

 

[MrTSolar]

Linux Mint has everything working on install for Dell XPS 13. I'm running 18.3 on my 2015 XPS 13 9343 (installed and used since whenever 18.3 came out, but the machine has only ever run Linux since new). The only CLI command I use is "sudo tlp bat" to double my battery life (requires tlp installation, but is relatively easy).

For mobile, I'm looking to go to a Google Pixel 5 running either CalyxOS or GrapheneOS pending further investigation and Apple's next move. Their "delay" has me paused on a nearly iCloud-free iPhone. Thought long and hard about the Librem 5, but I'm not that early of an adopter. Maybe if the hardware gets a refresh at some point.

My MacBook Air is currently in phase-out. At home, my primary machine is a 2014 Dell Optiplex with fresh RAM and high-end graphics card for games. My XPS 13 has been re-instated as a mobile when needed. iCloud drive has been replaced with Teamviewer and a Belkin WeMo Wi-Fi outlet on the desktop. I toggle the outlet, wait a minute, and then remote control the desktop, so now any of my devices can run any software since all I'm doing is remote desktop of Windows 10. iCloud Photos is currently being replaced with a Sandisk Ibi, but I'm not sure if this will be long-term or not. It works well enough, but the price of the device seems low when coupled with free internet-based access to the device.

Apple Music will likely be replaced by a combination of buying CDs and Spotify. I can power up the desktop and remotely control music from my phone. Audio from the desktop is piped into a Hi-Fi system, so there's also the replacement for my HomePods.

iMessage is nearly replaced by Telegram. I only have two people that are stuck with iMessage, but they can easily revert to SMS.

The Watch is simply going away. I don't really care to wear a watch, and the past month has been freeing by not wearing it. If I needed a Watch replacement, I'd go with a 6th gen iPod nano and wrist case or a simple watch.

 

[crymimefireworks]

"This is the Linux issue. Needing CLI to get a mouse working and to install a browser is just crazy."

Actually this is not true at all. You have more accessible way to setup you mouse or trackpad even better than macOS.

in the case of Pop_OS you activate the universal search with super/cmd/win key and type settings.

View attachment 1827224

There are some use cases that require installing software trough terminal. In the pop-shop you have all major web-browsers excluding Brave (there is a version in snap distribution but not in flatpack.) In this case you just copy and paste three lines of commands. If you are using macOS professionally you will be familiar with macOS terminal.

But I can assure you that as a normal user you have all the software that you need with a simple search in Pop AppStore and click of the mouse.


From the cog on the right you can manage your software sources and add even more software.

View attachment 1827226

There is learning curve but it is not related to using a terminal. Linux desktops are accessible and beautiful now.

They have animations and fluidity. You have even more polished desktops than Pop_OS, just check Elementary OS for macOS like experience https://elementary.io/


They just released the new version: https://blog.elementary.io/elementary-os-6-odin-released/

View attachment 1827227

The main point is that you can lose some functionality and polish but gain more control over your computer and gather useful knowledge for the future in which using proprietary OS will be equal to surveillance and data mining.


I have worked with Apple computers since 1999, have bought every gizmo and iPhone available trough the years, my company was running on macs for the last 18 years, not anymore. Even people that are older Apple users than me are exiting the ecosystem and moving everything that they can to FOSS.


The message from Apple headquarters is clear: Our way or the highway.

And my answer is: Highway is more private than your plan for the future of computing.

I hear what you're saying. We both want the same thing. To me, thinking about causal users coming over from Mac to Linux there is even more polish needed.

1. I had to install multitouch drivers from some person on github to get my Apple mouse to work
2. I had to create CLI system services to get my laptop to "wake from sleep" using a bluetooth keyboard (standard on a mac), otherwise need to open the laptop every time
3. I had to use CLI to install Brave

Look, this stuff isn't technical problems. It's the softer more human stuff. And it's needed. A casual user who sees a bunch of text and work needed to install Brave will just use Firefox instead. Or tell themselves they're dumb. Or give up on Linux.

Keep up the good work - and donate to open source software projects!

 

[crymimefireworks]

Anyone here interested in the PineTime as a watch replacement? I'm sure it's pretty basic, kind of like a Pebble.

 

[crymimefireworks]

Linux Mint has everything working on install for Dell XPS 13. I'm running 18.3 on my 2015 XPS 13 9343 (installed and used since whenever 18.3 came out, but the machine has only ever run Linux since new). The only CLI command I use is "sudo tlp bat" to double my battery life (requires tlp installation, but is relatively easy).

For mobile, I'm looking to go to a Google Pixel 5 running either CalyxOS or GrapheneOS pending further investigation and Apple's next move. Their "delay" has me paused on a nearly iCloud-free iPhone. Thought long and hard about the Librem 5, but I'm not that early of an adopter. Maybe if the hardware gets a refresh at some point.

My MacBook Air is currently in phase-out. At home, my primary machine is a 2014 Dell Optiplex with fresh RAM and high-end graphics card for games. My XPS 13 has been re-instated as a mobile when needed. iCloud drive has been replaced with Teamviewer and a Belkin WeMo Wi-Fi outlet on the desktop. I toggle the outlet, wait a minute, and then remote control the desktop, so now any of my devices can run any software since all I'm doing is remote desktop of Windows 10. iCloud Photos is currently being replaced with a Sandisk Ibi, but I'm not sure if this will be long-term or not. It works well enough, but the price of the device seems low when coupled with free internet-based access to the device.

Apple Music will likely be replaced by a combination of buying CDs and Spotify. I can power up the desktop and remotely control music from my phone. Audio from the desktop is piped into a Hi-Fi system, so there's also the replacement for my HomePods.

iMessage is nearly replaced by Telegram. I only have two people that are stuck with iMessage, but they can easily revert to SMS.

The Watch is simply going away. I don't really care to wear a watch, and the past month has been freeing by not wearing it. If I needed a Watch replacement, I'd go with a 6th gen iPod nano and wrist case or a simple watch.

Thoughts on Telegram vs Signal? My understanding is Telegram is closed source, Signal is open source.

 

[Expos of 1969]

Very interesting thread. Thanks for starting it. Good to hear from those who have more experience in these areas.

 

[nickdalzell1]

Since all my data has been backed up on a Linux server acting as an NAS for years, switching back to Android (Samsung Galaxy S20 FE, freshly de-Googled as of last week, most apps disabled or blocked via NetGuard app) was easy. Linux I've been familar with since 2001. I'm using Deepin (MacOS like, based on Debian) as a Linux on a HP laptop. Couldn't get Linux working properly on my T2 MBP (Keyboard, sound, wifi, etc no worky) so I gave up on the Mac.

Apple TV replaced with Fire TV sticks, don't need an Amazon account to use Netflix, or sideload APKs like the Apple TV app or various others, since it runs an AOSP fork so you don't have to tie with Amazon. I recommend a Wifi extender since my Fire Sticks (from 2016) don't like being more than five feet from a router at all.

Watch is a Galaxy Watch 3, the last Tizen-based model, as I'm not interested in reliving the WearOS nightmare. Severely gimped is a more proper name for the Google Assistant in that, among being reliant on Google and their own issues. Bixby is no worse than Siri on an Apple watch, and can do a few things better (such as turn on/off water lock mode, show notifications, go back to home screen, even do things like clear recent apps).

On the phone I use Bixby, and Robin as an open-source alternative to Google Assistant. I have pretty much most apps blocked from even accessing the internet, using a slew of my favorite Android 2.3 apps from the server. My server has been my alternative to Play Store for years. The only apps I am allowing internet and data access to are Garmin Connect, Bixby Voice, any web browser, Spotify, Samsung Health, and MMS messaging. That's pretty much it. Everything else, from ebooks, to music, photos, my contacts, are stored on device.

 

[keeper]

Isn't this what this whole section of the forum is for?

I understand the reaction to CSAM but I got a linux laptop, isn't it just reactionary?

The subject goes far deeper, how has this laptop suddenly changed the world?
How did it suddenly provide you with all the end to end services that Apple provide?

File storage is one thing how does it protect you on the internet?
Will it actually offer more protection than Apple Private Relay?

What is Apple Private Relay and is it worse than a VPN?

Is Apple's shiny new privacy tool really a 'VPN killer'?

www.techradar.com

I like this section of the forum because it usually contain good quality technical advise by people
who seem to have good IT backgrounds, I'd rather avoid an anti Apple environment.

Having said that, I think it would be technically interesting if it was split into subject areas.

How to provide more privacy while using the internet.

How to create your own cloud to maintain your data and provide functionality across all your devises.

What back up solutions do you need to create and which cloud backup solutions work best.

For me, I'm happy to keep my Apple products, I have a lot invested in them plus they work well.

Having said that my iCloud usage in down from just under 50GIG to 2.4GIG.

Mainly due to making better use of my NAS for Photos, Documents, Calendar etc.
But that required me to take ownership of my data and an investment in Cloud back up, not a lot £10 for Synology C2
and £10 for iDrive. I already own the NAS and local backup.

Its an interesting subject to replicate or improve Apple products but the upshot is, without the CSAM episode
most people where paying Apple 75 UK pence a month to manage all data and provide an E2E service across
all Apple products.
It will cost a lot more if you reinvest in hardware and software it replace it, and what is the best way to achieve that and looking generally at internet privacy is it really worth the hassle???