Can Apple improve the Stand algorithm?

[nnc]

My Watch (Series 8) often does not count a Stand during an hour. It works fine otherwise, and I will get credit for a Stand if I swing my arm for a minute. However many activities almost never count. Today I did not get credit for grocery shopping which took about an hour. This included walking all the aisles, lots of reaching, pushing the cart to the car, and transferring the goods to the trunk. As I started to drive home at 11:58, I realized I never checked to see if I got credit. Later, I saw I did not get credit for the 11:00 hour. For the better part of the 5:00 hour, I cooked a delicious meal with some of my fresh groceries. I timed it to sit down to eat at 5:50. A few minutes after 6:00, I checked and of course I did not get credit for standing during the 5:00 hour.

In addition to cooking and shopping, I notice I don't get credit for loading/unloading the dishwasher, doing laundry, or carrying something.

The common denominator is the watch arm is not free to swing while doing these activities.

My watch knows I'm being active, and it knows that I am travelling horizontally. It seems to me they could greatly improve the algorithm.

 

[MacManiac76]

Are you getting the notification on the watch to stand at 10 mins till the end of the hour when you don't get credit? If you're not, there could be something else going on with your watch besides it being on your limited motion arm. Have you tried resetting the watch?

 

[arc of the universe]

My Watch (Series 8) often does not count a Stand during an hour. It works fine otherwise, and I will get credit for a Stand if I swing my arm for a minute. However many activities almost never count. Today I did not get credit for grocery shopping which took about an hour. This included walking all the aisles, lots of reaching, pushing the cart to the car, and transferring the goods to the trunk. As I started to drive home at 11:58, I realized I never checked to see if I got credit. Later, I saw I did not get credit for the 11:00 hour. For the better part of the 5:00 hour, I cooked a delicious meal with some of my fresh groceries. I timed it to sit down to eat at 5:50. A few minutes after 6:00, I checked and of course I did not get credit for standing during the 5:00 hour.

In addition to cooking and shopping, I notice I don't get credit for loading/unloading the dishwasher, doing laundry, or carrying something.

The common denominator is the watch arm is not free to swing while doing these activities.

My watch knows I'm being active, and it knows that I am travelling horizontally. It seems to me they could greatly improve the algorithm.

good comments. thanks for sharing.
you might enjoy reading this similar thread.

So… how exactly does the Stand reminder work?

when i watch knitters, they always have a very similar expression on their face. its kind of an expression indicating that although they are aware of immediate surroundings, they are at the same time reaching some kind of deeper level where they are washing the mind by being detached from their...

forums.macrumors.com

 

[onenorth]

The algorithms are a bit of a mystery but I believe that they are working more or less as intended.

Stand, Move and Exercise are three distinct goals that often overlap. Also, a stand may bridge two hours (for example, 11:55 am to 12:05 pm). So I think they do not always count stand as just standing during a given hour, although I usually will get two credits in this situation if I am not doing much else in terms of move and exercise. (Actually, I would prefer to only get a stand credit if I have been sitting for some amount of time prior.)

You should have gotten Move credits for the grocery shopping, even though there was no stand credit. Stand is intended to get you out of your chair. So the first hour you were standing, you should get a stand credit, but the second hour while you were getting move credit you may not get another stand credit because you were already standing AND you were getting active move credits.

I think this is the intent, although it is still guessing at what you are doing and so it is hard for us to determine the pattern it is looking for.

 

[davidg4781]

A few months ago, I was really trying to close all my rings every day for a week I was on vacation. The stand one was hard on some days since I was just being lazy for part of the day.

I found you have to be up and probably moving each hour to for the Stand to count. For me, I'd get up and walk around the house a couple of times then check that it was counted. It will alert you at the :50 if you haven't stood yet to give you time to stand up and walk around.

If it's not working like this, I would do a restore on it to see if that fixes it. If not, maybe get with Apple.

 

[onenorth]

Yeah, I have found that Stand credits are more reliable when my arm is hanging down and moving. If I am working with my hands in front of me (as I would be at a desk) then it doesn't know that I am standing. If you have a standing desk and keep your hands on the desk, it won't give the stand credit. Or if I am pushing around my snow blower, I don't get enough stand or move credit. Maybe working at a kitchen counter is the same thing.

 

[nnc]

It really monitors arm-swinging, not standing. Since my OP, as an experiment, I got credit while lying on the couch, dangling and swinging my arm.

I think Apple can do better. The Watch is so smart, otherwise. I don't think it would require any hardware modification.

By the way, I turned off the hourly reminder on Day 2 - after my watch woke me at 6:50 AM to tell me to stand - and I had Sleep Focus turned On; set to turn off at 7:15 AM. If I had gotten a Stand reminder while I was in the checkout line, transferring my groceries from the cart to the belt, I would have cursed out loud.

 

[onenorth]

It really monitors arm-swinging, not standing. Since my OP, as an experiment, I got credit while lying on the couch, dangling and swinging my arm.

I think Apple can do better. The Watch is so smart, otherwise. I don't think it would require any hardware modification.

By the way, I turned off the hourly reminder on Day 2 - after my watch woke me at 6:50 AM to tell me to stand - and I had Sleep Focus turned On; set to turn off at 7:15 AM. If I had gotten a Stand reminder while I was in the checkout line, transferring my groceries from the cart to the belt, I would have cursed out loud.

Yes, the algorithm could do better. Maybe implementing AI will help it learn from your behaviors.

If I have a cat on my lap and I don't want to stand, I can cheat the watch by dangling my arm beside my chair.

The reminder is annoying and I think unnecessary since I always meet my goal even when I ignore the reminder. But I leave it on anyway. And if it alerts me while I am standing, I just drop my arm down and swing it for a minute. It should not alert while in sleep focus though.

 

[jz0309]

I think Apple can do better. The Watch is so smart, otherwise. I don't think it would require any hardware modification.

Have you provided feedback to Apple?

It’s been working like this since AWS0, there is no sensor in the watch that can tell you’re “standing” other that the gyroscope and that requires movement…

 

[jz0309]

Reading through what Apple has to say about the stand goal might also help:

Apple Watch - Close Your Rings

Move. Exercise. Stand. Close the three Activity rings on your Apple Watch every day to live a healthier life.

www.apple.com

 

[stevemiller]

coming from a fitbit, the stand reminder is ridiculous on apple watch. the fitbit truly made me feel like i had to work to fulfill my standing goals, and was smart enough to not count certain arm movements towards that goal.

with the apple watch i don't even need to 'cheat'. i can literally be lying down on the couch. not moving. i get a stand reminder, then 10 seconds later i get a "you did it!" notification. i did not move. anyone defending that as "working as indended" is definitely drinking the kool-aide. (or my watch is in fact defective, which - honestly its been such a shockingly bad device i wouldn't totally rule it out)

 

[davidg4781]

Yes, the algorithm could do better. Maybe implementing AI will help it learn from your behaviors.

If I have a cat on my lap and I don't want to stand, I can cheat the watch by dangling my arm beside my chair.

The reminder is annoying and I think unnecessary since I always meet my goal even when I ignore the reminder. But I leave it on anyway. And if it alerts me while I am standing, I just drop my arm down and swing it for a minute. It should not alert while in sleep focus though.

Maybe because I have a high bed, maybe because I'm still half asleep, but I don't remember the stand reminder going off for me early in the mornings.

It would be nice to have three settings... On, Off, and Set To Goal. That way, it's not bugging me at 6am but if it sees I might not hit my goal, it'll start reminding me at 8 or 9. Then once I hit my goal, it stops bothering me.

 

[onenorth]

Maybe because I have a high bed, maybe because I'm still half asleep, but I don't remember the stand reminder going off for me early in the mornings.

It would be nice to have three settings... On, Off, and Set To Goal. That way, it's not bugging me at 6am but if it sees I might not hit my goal, it'll start reminding me at 8 or 9. Then once I hit my goal, it stops bothering me.

During the day it sometimes gives me "you can do it" coaching alerts if it thinks I'm falling behind, and that seems to learn from my patterns although I'm not certain about whether that is just my imagination or what actually triggers the coaching alerts. As noted, there is room for improvement here but it generally does what I want of it, which is to remind me to get out of my chair once in a while. Which is more important than the final goal number.

 

[melvingoodman]

Absolutely, Apple has the potential to improve the Stand algorithm. By listening to user feedback, staying up-to-date with advancements in technology, and dedicating resources to refining the algorithm's sensitivity and accuracy, they can certainly make strides in enhancing the overall user experience when it comes to tracking standing activities on their devices.