Resolved Can Mail still be set up on a PPC?

[Riku7]

I was trying to set up a secondary PPC-only e-mail address for Mail (to not give away my main one and to not flood the old Mac with reams of mail), but I can't seem to get the servers to work because I don't understand the settings; I've tried to follow some instructions I found but when they don't work, I have no idea whether it's because I'm doing something wrong or because I'm doing it right but the suggested method just can't be made to work anymore, ever.
So those of you who have an e-mail client working on an PPC running OSX, how are you doing it now?

iMac G4, 10.5.8.

 

[micahgartman]

You can. It requires setting up an app-specific password:

Using app-specific passwords - Apple Support

App-specific passwords allow you to sign in to your account securely when you use third-party apps with your Apple ID.

support.apple.com

 

[eyoungren]

I was trying to set up a secondary PPC-only e-mail address for Mail (to not give away my main one and to not flood the old Mac with reams of mail), but I can't seem to get the servers to work because I don't understand the settings; I've tried to follow some instructions I found but when they don't work, I have no idea whether it's because I'm doing something wrong or because I'm doing it right but the suggested method just can't be made to work anymore, ever.
So those of you who have an e-mail client working on an PPC running OSX, how are you doing it now?

iMac G4, 10.5.8.

You make absolutely no mention of which provider email you are trying to set up, so @micahgartman's suggestion is assuming you are trying to set up an iCloud email address. But the same goes for Gmail, if you have 2FA active.

If you simply meant you are struggling with SMTP, IMAP or POP then at least let us know which provider (you don't have to give us the part before the @ in your email address). It's a simple matter of looking the settings up for that provider.

 

[Riku7]

You make absolutely no mention of which provider email you are trying to set up, so @micahgartman's suggestion is assuming you are trying to set up an iCloud email address. But the same goes for Gmail, if you have 2FA active.

If you simply meant you are struggling with SMTP, IMAP or POP then at least let us know which provider (you don't have to give us the part before the @ in your email address). It's a simple matter of looking the settings up for that provider.

I didn't mention a provider because I'm still at the point of figuring out if Mail today supports any provider! I was hoping to have a fresh address without any history, to dedicate for the iMac. Hence, the general inquiry of how other people made theirs work, if so.

I tried two different providers but when things didn't work out, I started to suspect if it's even possible to use such an old e-mail client in general; It occurred to me that current e-mail address providers might have moved on to protocols not yet known to old Mail.app, and they would've disabled access from old protocols that don't meet current security standards.

So I would primarily prefer Protonmail if possible, and Outlook second (because I already made an address), but if neither of these are compatible, I can also create a new account from a provider that is. I would avoid any new commitments to Google if at all possible, though.

 

[iluvmacs99]

I was trying to set up a secondary PPC-only e-mail address for Mail (to not give away my main one and to not flood the old Mac with reams of mail), but I can't seem to get the servers to work because I don't understand the settings; I've tried to follow some instructions I found but when they don't work, I have no idea whether it's because I'm doing something wrong or because I'm doing it right but the suggested method just can't be made to work anymore, ever.
So those of you who have an e-mail client working on an PPC running OSX, how are you doing it now?

iMac G4, 10.5.8.

I have my Powerbook G4 DSLD setup with TenFourBird and it works with most of the major email providers including Gmail. With Gmail, you need to set up an app 2FA (2 Factor Authentication). After that though, everything works. Don't use the built-in Mail app that came with Leopard. TFB is better.

Setting up for Hotmail (Outlook) is fine, but with Protonmail, I suggest sticking with a Web Browser or an iOS app/Android app to preserve its encryption purpose. PPC is too old to support the latest encryption deployment for Protonmail.

Tenfourbird Project Top Page - OSDN

 

[eyoungren]

I didn't mention a provider because I'm still at the point of figuring out if Mail today supports any provider! I was hoping to have a fresh address without any history, to dedicate for the iMac. Hence, the general inquiry of how other people made theirs work, if so.

I tried two different providers but when things didn't work out, I started to suspect if it's even possible to use such an old e-mail client in general; It occurred to me that current e-mail address providers might have moved on to protocols not yet known to old Mail.app, and they would've disabled access from old protocols that don't meet current security standards.

So I would primarily prefer Protonmail if possible, and Outlook second (because I already made an address), but if neither of these are compatible, I can also create a new account from a provider that is. I would avoid any new commitments to Google if at all possible, though.

You can still set up iCloud mail, gmail, yahoo, ISP mail and AFAIK any others. If it's not working, it's because of a security setting and those are generally non-standard ports you have to set for incoming and outgoing servers.

That said, it's possible for ISPs to block certain things. For instance, Cox is my ISP and they have Microsoft Entourage 2008 blocked. This started about a year and a half ago. All my settings are correct, the same settings they've been for several years. It all works in Thunderbird and Mail though (same exact settings).

 

[Riku7]

I managed to briefly get the Outlook one to work, so it downloaded one e-mail from inbox and I managed to send one... Then back to the same issues I had before, which is that one or the other server is spontaneously offline and I have no idea of what else to do about the settings; It's not like I understand what any of the settings mean anyway, all I'm doing is blindly trying to repeat what I see in online guides, and I still never know if it's right because of course software this old doesn't look like the things in the guides.
I'll check out TenFourBird, but I'll still have to understand the setup jargon somehow.

Protonmail (free) doesn't seem to support anything else but webmail, so that doesn't serve my purpose. I just set up Outlook with two-factor authentication which allowed it to briefly get online in Mail but christ that Outlook it's like using a Windows computer: Now they randomly spam the address with verification requests no matter what I do, and when I go to the webmail settings via my main computer, they dare to constantly spam me with "tell us what you think about us" pop-ups...

 

[Riku7]

Mail works with an Outlook account now.

For reference, here's what I did:

Set up two-factor authentication for the outlook account (a massive pain, their website is the opposite of user friendly and they make you go to and fro)
This gave me a code that works as a password when logging in from the mail application.

No matter how I tried to follow instructions I found online, I couldn't get Mail to work properly with the server configuration: Incoming or outgoing server was always offline when I tried to send something, even if it was online briefly before that.
So I got TenFourBird which is apparently much nicer in terms of setting things up: All it wants is my e-mail address and password, and it sorts the rest of things out automatically. However, I didn't like TenFourBird's visual layout so much. But now that I had this working connection in TenFourBird, I looked at the settings it had auto-configured for the account to work, and copied those to Mail. Now both clients seem to work fine.

Don't use the built-in Mail app that came with Leopard. TFB is better.

I'm still curious about this though; What do you base this opinion on?
This is not an attack, I'm just curious to learn and sincerely wonder what experiences lead you to that choice; on the internet, whenever someone claims something to be good or bad without further explanations, it's impossible to tell whether it's an individual's subjective view (and genuinely true in their situation) or a general fact that that affects all. For example, software that crashes every 5 minutes is universally bad for everyone, and it's impossible to imagine a workflow or personal taste where that would be fine.

 

[iluvmacs99]

I'm still curious about this though; What do you base this opinion on?
This is not an attack, I'm just curious to learn and sincerely wonder what experiences lead you to that choice; on the internet, whenever someone claims something to be good or bad without further explanations, it's impossible to tell whether it's an individual's subjective view (and genuinely true in their situation) or a general fact that that affects all. For example, software that crashes every 5 minutes is universally bad for everyone, and it's impossible to imagine a workflow or personal taste where that would be fine.

The last OSX Leopard security update was issued roughly around 2012. Whereas the last update of TenFourBird was 2016. TenFourBird used a changesets of TenFourFox and that includes the necessary security updates released in 2016 for the copy of TFB. Mail in Leopard used an old method of communicating with the servers and that's why it didn't work all the time for you until you copied the settings from TFB to make it work. TFB implementation was somewhat current to mitigate these issues and it is the latest app available for email exchange as of 2016.

The internet we know today isn't as friendly and nice to people with older less secured apps and connections as we had when Leopard was mainstream back in the days. Using the latest available PPC email and browser apps would be the most prudent thing to do being on the internet in 2021.

 

[JohnAJ]

I just published a guide for using Mail.app on Snow Leopard on the Snow Leopard forum. I would assume it works for Leopard too, as long as you are able to install stunnel via MacPorts. (This method works even for OS 9 – I use it with Outlook Express – but then I run stunnel on a separate machine, as it can't run on OS 9.)

Edit: Just saw that you got it to work. But maybe my instructions will be helpful in the future, if Outlook ever stops working in Mail.app. My method works with any e-mail provider.

 

[Macbookprodude]

I just published a guide for using Mail.app on Snow Leopard on the Snow Leopard forum. I would assume it works for Leopard too, as long as you are able to install stunnel via MacPorts. (This method works even for OS 9 – I use it with Outlook Express – but then I run stunnel on a separate machine, as it can't run on OS 9.)

Edit: Just saw that you got it to work. But maybe my instructions will be helpful in the future, if Outlook ever stops working in Mail.app. My method works with any e-mail provider.

How did you get outlook express in OS 9 to work ?? I can't seem to get it to work.. even classila's email isn't working.. what settings did you use for outlook express in os9 FOR GMAIL ? I am using imap.

 

[Macbookprodude]

I followed the standard instructions for imap set up using gmail and enabled use less secure apps - under Leopard, mail app works, tenfourbird and thunderbird both work nicely.. However, in OS 9, I can't seem to get it to work.. Someone told me though outlook express maybe old, it will still allow for gmail to work.

 

[Macbookprodude]

The last OSX Leopard security update was issued roughly around 2012. Whereas the last update of TenFourBird was 2016. TenFourBird used a changesets of TenFourFox and that includes the necessary security updates released in 2016 for the copy of TFB. Mail in Leopard used an old method of communicating with the servers and that's why it didn't work all the time for you until you copied the settings from TFB to make it work. TFB implementation was somewhat current to mitigate these issues and it is the latest app available for email exchange as of 2016.

The internet we know today isn't as friendly and nice to people with older less secured apps and connections as we had when Leopard was mainstream back in the days. Using the latest available PPC email and browser apps would be the most prudent thing to do being on the internet in 2021.

AIN'T THAT THE FACT !!!! I agree with you there..

 

[Macbookprodude]

Mail works with an Outlook account now.

For reference, here's what I did:

Set up two-factor authentication for the outlook account (a massive pain, their website is the opposite of user friendly and they make you go to and fro)
This gave me a code that works as a password when logging in from the mail application.

No matter how I tried to follow instructions I found online, I couldn't get Mail to work properly with the server configuration: Incoming or outgoing server was always offline when I tried to send something, even if it was online briefly before that.
So I got TenFourBird which is apparently much nicer in terms of setting things up: All it wants is my e-mail address and password, and it sorts the rest of things out automatically. However, I didn't like TenFourBird's visual layout so much. But now that I had this working connection in TenFourBird, I looked at the settings it had auto-configured for the account to work, and copied those to Mail. Now both clients seem to work fine.


I'm still curious about this though; What do you base this opinion on?
This is not an attack, I'm just curious to learn and sincerely wonder what experiences lead you to that choice; on the internet, whenever someone claims something to be good or bad without further explanations, it's impossible to tell whether it's an individual's subjective view (and genuinely true in their situation) or a general fact that that affects all. For example, software that crashes every 5 minutes is universally bad for everyone, and it's impossible to imagine a workflow or personal taste where that would be fine.

Leopard mail app works fine for me.

 

[JohnAJ]

How did you get outlook express in OS 9 to work ?? I can't seem to get it to work.. even classila's email isn't working.. what settings did you use for outlook express in os9 FOR GMAIL ? I am using imap.

As I said, it involves running stunnel on a separate (non-OS 9) machine and connecting via that. For example, I have a stunnel configuration running on a local server at 192.168.0.112, accepting incoming connections from my local network. In Outlook Express on OS 9, I connect to 192.168.10.112 instead of my e-mail server. Stunnel then forwards the connection to the real e-mail server.

This is something that generally requires some UNIX knowledge -- and a running separate machine -- so it's not the best solution for everyone. But it's the only way to connect to some e-mail servers from Outlook Express, because they require a type of encryption that isn't supported by (any?) OS 9 e-mail clients.

 

[Macbookprodude]

Well, in my gmail settings I have one email address I use for OS 9 only and "use less secure apps" is checked, so it should work as Outlook Express in OS 9 is less secure.

 

[JohnAJ]

Well, in my gmail settings I have one email address I use for OS 9 only and "use less secure apps" is checked, so it should work as Outlook Express in OS 9 is less secure.

"Less secure" on Gmail does not mean unencrypted. It simply means that you connect using your actual password, instead of some OAuth application key, which is supported by very few clients and used only by Gmail (AFAIK). In other words, every normal client is "less secure" according to Google.

"Less secure" still requires SSL/TLS. I don't think that it would accept whatever version of SSL/TLS that Outlook Express supports, but I haven't tried it.

 

[Macbookprodude]

If you can try it let me know. Classila email Works.

 

[JohnAJ]

I know it works, I use it myself. Not for Gmail, I use mailbox.org, but there is no difference, it's the same protocols underneath.

 

[Riku7]

The last OSX Leopard security update was issued roughly around 2012. Whereas the last update of TenFourBird was 2016. TenFourBird used a changesets of TenFourFox and that includes the necessary security updates released in 2016 for the copy of TFB. Mail in Leopard used an old method of communicating with the servers and that's why it didn't work all the time for you until you copied the settings from TFB to make it work. TFB implementation was somewhat current to mitigate these issues and it is the latest app available for email exchange as of 2016.

The internet we know today isn't as friendly and nice to people with older less secured apps and connections as we had when Leopard was mainstream back in the days. Using the latest available PPC email and browser apps would be the most prudent thing to do being on the internet in 2021.

Thanks for elaborating. That's a valid point, and indeed not a subjective opinion but one of these things that's a fact for all. The iMac being 18 years old as I'm typing this, at no point have I assumed it to be as secure as modern computers; I mostly put it online temporarily to listen to online radio streams or to access files in a local network, and now I added the e-mail. I don't even surf because it's so much easier to do the surfing on the main computer and if I need to download something, transfer those to the iMac from there. It was always clear to me with the e-mail that I would not use it for anything very personal or private, and in fact, I wasn't even planning on communicating with other people; Initially I thought that I might simply add the e-mail as yet another channel for transferring stuff between the computers, and to subscribe to some newsletters or feeds. On my main computer, I never read those e-mails because they always come at a time when I don't have time for that. But I realized that on the iMac, I'm already in that exceptional space where I go on my free time, and I'll be far more receptive to reading content like that.
But I have still wondered – because everything in a PPC is old anyway – how safe are they to bring online in general? I have a vague understanding that some attacks target certain systems (because they have a certain vulnerability), but now there's two scenarios I can think of: A PPC could either fall under a wide category of systems that lack some security feature X, therefore it could be a potential target of an attack. Or, it could fall under a now smaller category of systems that are so uncommon that it's not effective to fashion attacks on them, which would make these machines safer than machines that are "just a bit outdated but not so ancient that nobody would care". And I'm talking about all kinds of attacks in general, not jut the security of e-mail.

I just published a guide for using Mail.app on Snow Leopard on the Snow Leopard forum.

Yeah, I just got it work! But thanks anyway, I think it's always useful to chime in on threads because this thread isn't just for me alone, but also for anyone who might be reading this topic later on. Forums can be a painful mosaic to find relevant information from, and bringing several solutions together saves time for the next reader.
I personally probably wouldn't have dared to take that advice as I don't have UNIX knowledge! I agree that it's recommended to have at least some idea of what you're doing, when dealing with those levels.


Quite ironically, this news was just out.

 

[iluvmacs99]

Thanks for elaborating. That's a valid point, and indeed not a subjective opinion but one of these things that's a fact for all. The iMac being 18 years old as I'm typing this, at no point have I assumed it to be as secure as modern computers; I mostly put it online temporarily to listen to online radio streams or to access files in a local network, and now I added the e-mail. I don't even surf because it's so much easier to do the surfing on the main computer and if I need to download something, transfer those to the iMac from there. It was always clear to me with the e-mail that I would not use it for anything very personal or private, and in fact, I wasn't even planning on communicating with other people; Initially I thought that I might simply add the e-mail as yet another channel for transferring stuff between the computers, and to subscribe to some newsletters or feeds. On my main computer, I never read those e-mails because they always come at a time when I don't have time for that. But I realized that on the iMac, I'm already in that exceptional space where I go on my free time, and I'll be far more receptive to reading content like that.
But I have still wondered – because everything in a PPC is old anyway – how safe are they to bring online in general? I have a vague understanding that some attacks target certain systems (because they have a certain vulnerability), but now there's two scenarios I can think of: A PPC could either fall under a wide category of systems that lack some security feature X, therefore it could be a potential target of an attack. Or, it could fall under a now smaller category of systems that are so uncommon that it's not effective to fashion attacks on them, which would make these machines safer than machines that are "just a bit outdated but not so ancient that nobody would care". And I'm talking about all kinds of attacks in general, not jut the security of e-mail.

When we consider vector of attacks on personal computing, we need to consider the motivation of people who execute these attacks. They want your passwords using keyloggers, because passwords eventually will link to your bank accounts and your social security checks etc. So the primary concern for computer users is to determine how strong are your passwords, how modern your system is to authenticating passwords and overall communication between your machine and the servers and if your machine is compromised, how updated is your system patched with the latest security patches to prevent leaking of your private information? The most common vector of attack these days are through malware, malicious websites and pirated software. Older systems are less immune to modern malware, malicious websites and pirated software and you can actually add a layer of security to older systems, like I do with a security router, to filter out malware, malicious website and blocking machines when it tries to call back to the hacker's mother ship. Incidentally, my iPhone with iOS 14 was infected through a messaging app and was blocked by my router as the outgoing packet was going to a known hacker's site. My Mac Pro was also infected despite running the latest Malwarebytes and Bitdefender as well as my Mini's server which had malware. Luckily, they were all harmless and didn't compromise my systems thus far. But these are modern machines running modern software and so it's valid to say that they are more easily compromised. But for decades despite my financial accounts being compromised by my bank who got breached and my health care provider who got breached, I had so far not been a victim of financial fraud. That wasn't the case for millions of people in our country that got defrauded by the same bank and same health care provider, which provided public service for our country because their email accounts got hacked or their phones got hacked and they took their passwords, created new accounts on government websites and got COVID relief checks. So it comes down to myself; I work hard for an honest pay and never steal software nor anything from anyone and I think for decades, that's been my ticket to relative peace.

Now does that mean that I'm immune to financial fraud. No, but the likelihood of intentional vector attacks are less likely. Still I remain vigilant. I still use my PowerBook G4 and it sits behind a security router and I scan the hard drive of the G4 using BitDefender running on my Mac Pro connected via Firewire and so far, it's been clean.

When I used to work for a non-profit tech organization which recycles computers, provide the support for the community and low income people, I had met many people from all walks of life. Some are still using a G3/G4 systems and still use its built-in modem to connect to the internet! Yeap, we have an internet provider funded by our government to provide low-cost internet email and messaging services as well as a bulletin board via telephone modem! Here's what I had observed thus far. Those who are honest people never experienced fraud, but those who cheated people to get an advantage over other people seemed to be on the receiving end of their own security breaches. Karma coming back to them?

If people are motivated to attack you, then it does matter what systems you are running. The best security practice is to never use or store passwords on less secure systems, because all it takes is for someone to steal your password, sell them on the Darkweb and then they would in turn use it to access your financial records, if you use the same passwords for your banking sites etc..

 

[JohnAJ]

But I have still wondered – because everything in a PPC is old anyway – how safe are they to bring online in general? I have a vague understanding that some attacks target certain systems (because they have a certain vulnerability), but now there's two scenarios I can think of: A PPC could either fall under a wide category of systems that lack some security feature X, therefore it could be a potential target of an attack. Or, it could fall under a now smaller category of systems that are so uncommon that it's not effective to fashion attacks on them, which would make these machines safer than machines that are "just a bit outdated but not so ancient that nobody would care". And I'm talking about all kinds of attacks in general, not jut the security of e-mail.

I personally think concerns about security on old operating systems are greatly exaggerated. The largest security hole by far is the user themselves, and updates don't fix that. An overwhelming majority of viruses are preventable. Simply knowing what you're doing goes a surprisingly long way.

Windows is far less secure than OS X, but even Windows XP can be put online relatively safely in 2021. And relative security is really all you get -- nothing is 100%. Constant vigilance is the only solution.

Yeah, I just got it work! But thanks anyway, I think it's always useful to chime in on threads because this thread isn't just for me alone, but also for anyone who might be reading this topic later on. Forums can be a painful mosaic to find relevant information from, and bringing several solutions together saves time for the next reader.
I personally probably wouldn't have dared to take that advice as I don't have UNIX knowledge! I agree that it's recommended to have at least some idea of what you're doing, when dealing with those levels.

Yeah, I'm working on packaging stunnel as an easily installable preference pane. So hopefully it can become a bit more accessible soon.

 

[TheShortTimer]

@iluvmacs99 That was a fascinating post! I've got a couple of questions.

Incidentally, my iPhone with iOS 14 was infected through a messaging app and was blocked by my router as the outgoing packet was going to a known hacker's site.

What was the messaging app? Was it WhatsApp?

My Mac Pro was also infected despite running the latest Malwarebytes and Bitdefender as well as my Mini's server which had malware. Luckily, they were all harmless and didn't compromise my systems thus far.

Can you elaborate about what happened please? I'd like to know more about this.

 

[iluvmacs99]

@iluvmacs99 That was a fascinating post! I've got a couple of questions.



What was the messaging app? Was it WhatsApp?



Can you elaborate about what happened please? I'd like to know more about this.

Yes, it was through WhatsApp. It was from some chick who innocently claimed that I got her number and was sending her stuff and she offered to help me rid of some malware on my phone. Clicked on something she sent and later on, my iPhone lost WIFI. I couldn't do anything until I looked into my security router and it blocked my iPhone from sending out packets and determined my phone was compromised. Reboot the iPhone, restored from a backup and then download iVerify to scan it. Thankfully I had a backup! That was my error, but she was cute, sounded so down to earth and I fell for it.

With the Mac Pro, I bought a used USB 3 PCIe card, a high end one but it was too old and it didn't come with a driver. Went online and found a site that had the driver and said it supported booting from USB (it couldn't). I knew something was off, but I was naive not to check the payload. So I installed it and it was a virus. I eventually found the official driver from the manufacturer's site though.

With the Mac Mini, it was an attachment from an email sent by a friend of mine which would later on warned me that her machine was infected. I opened up the attachment; it was a Microsoft file and it infected my Mini and luckily BitDefender detected it and quarantined it. Since I kept a clone weekly backup; rather just cleaning it with BitDefender, I just simply erase the SSD drive and clone the copy back to the boot drive. I was up within minutes again.

So just because I use MacOSX doesn't mean I'm anymore immune against attacks as my Windows 10 PC, which is why I kept clone backups; weekly and monthly and they had both saved my bacon many times for sure. My Windows 10 PC is also protected and kept clone copies of weekly and monthly backups. It's easier to just reclone a clean virus/malware free copy than trying to clean crap which never always clean it like before infection.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

it was a Microsoft file and it infected my Mini and luckily BitDefender detected it and quarantined it.

Did it actually "infect" your Mac or did BitDefender just detect it as malicious? Do you have an official version of Microsoft Office installed? (This is one reason I only use iWork—MS Office is a common exploit target.)

Also, if it was the attachment that was infected, and you opened it, it won't make a difference which mail client you use.

Incidentally, my iPhone with iOS 14 was infected through a messaging app and was blocked by my router as the outgoing packet was going to a known hacker's site.

Are you sure? On iOS, that type of exploit would be a major story. I haven't heard about any RCE webkit exploits since iOS 12, and that one was almost certainly developed by the CCP (it was used to spy on Uyghurs).

(Coincidentally, if you have reason to suspect you're being targeted by a nation state, you should not be using a PPC Mac, at all. You should also be using an air-gapped computer as much as humanly possible, and doing all web browsing in a disposable VM.)