Color gamut (sRGB vs DCI-P3)

[Dockland]

I read a couple of years ago that DCI-P3 will replace sRGB in the next following years.
Is sRGB "dead" so to speak?
I was checking my camera and it's kind of new but doesn't have any option for DCI-P3, just Adobe (1998) and sRGB.

Anyone knows why?

Should I go all sRGB (even thou my monitor and photo editing software is set to DCI-P3)

Does it matter?

 

[mollyc]

I have never heard of dci. I think @Apple fanboy is our resident color expert.

 

[Clix Pix]

I had never heard of this either, so had a look at Google, where thanks to Wikipedia I learned that it is actually more geared toward the motion picture industry and cinematography than still photography.

"DCI-P3, or DCI/P3, is a common RGB color space for digital movie projection from the American film industry."

Reading further, I also discovered:

"Display P3​

Display P3 is a color space created by Apple Inc. It uses the DCI-P3 primaries but with a D65 white point which is much more common among computer-display colorspaces (sRGB and AdobeRGB both use D65). Also unlike DCI-P3's 1/2.6 pure gamma curve, Display P3 uses the sRGB transfer curve (EOTF and thus display referred), which, for comparison purposes, could be approximated to a 1/2.2 gamma curve.

Display P3 (termed P3D65) is also used for some of Netflix deliverables, including HDR and without BT.2020 container."

 

[r.harris1]

I have a monkey-level understanding of color, but spaces like sRGB, DCI/P3, Adobe RGB, etc all have their uses and have specific gamut ranges, as I understand it. I've found this to be a good article: https://photographylife.com/srgb-vs-adobe-rgb-vs-prophoto-rgb - and at the end the author mentions a fellow called Andrew Rodney, who also has good resources. AFB will have his extensive knowledge here: It's his day job!

You'll see references to professional monitors supporting some percent of a set of color spaces. It seems like DCI/P3 is more on the video side and you'll see Apple monitors often mention this. They're driving DCI/P3 on their equipment so MacBook Pros from the last 5 years or so are all DCI/P3-centric, as is the XDR monitor and even the more recent iPads. Companies like Eizo will often seem to focus on Adobe RGB. Many companies will support both to one degree or another.

 

[ashleykaryl]

sRGB is far from dead. If you are shooting Raw stills you can export files in your chosen colour space for the intended usage.

 

[Dockland]

sRGB is far from dead. If you are shooting Raw stills you can export files in your chosen colour space for the intended usage.

Yes, but if I don't know the "target" color gamut? I only use DCI-P3 since a couple of years and i'm pleased, but don't really know if anyone can tell anyway.

 

[ashleykaryl]

That is where you need a knowledge of colour management. If you were exporting to web sRGB would be your safest bet, but if you were going to print a brochure a printer would likely ask for CMYK with a specified profile or Adobe RGB and handle the conversion themselves. You need to be aware of colour gamuts and always working from a hardware calibrated display.

 

[Dockland]

That is where you need a knowledge of colour management. If you were exporting to web sRGB would be your safest bet, but if you were going to print a brochure a printer would likely ask for CMYK with a specified profile or Adobe RGB and handle the conversion themselves. You need to be aware of colour gamuts and always working from a hardware calibrated display.

But isn't a wider color gamut better? Almost all devices (since a couple of year) has DCI-P3 as standard.
My images i post here and on Instagram or where ever, are sRGB (in camera) converted to DCI-P3 and exported as such.
sRGB, isn't that mostly Windows that uses that color gamut?

 

[r.harris1]

But isn't a wider color gamut better? Almost all devices (since a couple of year) has DCI-P3 as standard.
My images i post here and on Instagram or where ever, are sRGB (in camera) converted to DCI-P3 and exported as such.
sRGB, isn't that mostly Windows that uses that color gamut?

The most widely supported color space is still sRGB as I understand it. Many consumer monitors, browsers, apps, etc. If you export in P3 and my browser, app or monitor is only sRGB, your image won’t look the same to me, for example, probably really flat. Maybe this eventually changes, but will take a while.

Your images probably look different to me than you anyway because we likely have differently calibrated monitors. Color science is massively interesting, worth dipping your toes into.

 

[mollyc]

Historically web browsers are very bad at color management especially for people who aren’t into photography (or video). You should always export for web as sRGB so that your colors look as intended. Of course most people do not calibrate, but at least then your photo is off the same degree as other photos. If you post to web as Adobe RGB (which I have seen happen countless times) most browsers will display that with a weird green tint.

you can work and edit in whatever color space is your preference, but for web always convert to sRGB before posting.

 

[Fravin]

I read a couple of years ago that DCI-P3 will replace sRGB in the next following years.
Is sRGB "dead" so to speak?
I was checking my camera and it's kind of new but doesn't have any option for DCI-P3, just Adobe (1998) and sRGB.

Anyone knows why?

Should I go all sRGB (even thou my monitor and photo editing software is set to DCI-P3)

Does it matter?

Yes, the choice of colour space does matter, and a lot!

First things first: You have to understand that in Digital production you have two different scenarios: The productive one and the consumer one.

In productivity you must use the wider colour space available in all your devices. That's because in the capture of the image you will provide a full gamut for your editor to squeeze all the image's potential.

Regarding Colour Spaces, consider Adobe RGB as it's by far the most comprehensive one out there.

Just to be clear, P3 is not a colour space, it's a colour profile. A colour profile is a device colour profile, that is insert in a colour space. For instance, if your device can capture ARGB images (devices uses colour profiles), you will edit it in ARGB Colour Space, viewing it on a P3 able display. The colour space is the base for the entire system.

Regarding to the consumer scenario you have to mind what's the most probable usage of the image. If your consumer is, for instance, a high grade video editor give him a wide colour profile. But if your consumer is someone that you don't know, use a small one and keep the safe side.

My personal options are:

Camera: Adobe RGB
Edition Software: Adobe RGB
Display: Calibrated on ARGB
Output for professionals: Adobe RGB
Output for others: sRGB

 

[Dockland]

Historically web browsers are very bad at color management especially for people who aren’t into photography (or video). You should always export for web as sRGB so that your colors look as intended. Of course most people do not calibrate, but at least then your photo is off the same degree as other photos. If you post to web as Adobe RGB (which I have seen happen countless times) most browsers will display that with a weird green tint.

you can work and edit in whatever color space is your preference, but for web always convert to sRGB before posting.

Is "instagram" webcontent? It's viewed (mostly I assume) on P3 devices. Then I perhaps upload it here.
Well, it's a jungle

 

[ashleykaryl]

People love to hear good news about bad habits. Just export for web as sRGB. There is a reason why standards exist.

 

[Dockland]

People love to hear good news about bad habits. Just export for web as sRGB. There is a reason why standards exist.

But isn't DCI-P3 more of a standard these days, regarding number of devices "out there"?

 

[r.harris1]

But isn't DCI-P3 more of a standard these days, regarding number of devices "out there"?

I’ve never seen a statisitc on that, personally. With Apple devices, that’s probably true. If your target audience is Instagram on Apple devices, you may have a larger segment who can view your images closer to how you intend and if your images indeed have a color range suitable for P3. Safari is color managed and can display according to an attached profile too on the right device. This isn’t true of all browsers or all applications. It’s not true of all consumer monitors. If you want your images to look consistent and good for everyone on the web, sRGB is the right answer, at least for now. With soft proofing techniques you can tweak the image so it looks great with an sRGB profile. And looks great for everyone. Obviously, it’s up to you.

 

[Dockland]

I’ve never seen a statisitc on that, personally. With Apple devices, that’s probably true. If your target audience is Instagram on Apple devices, you may have a larger segment who can view your images closer to how you intend and if your images indeed have a color range suitable for P3. Safari is color managed and can display according to an attached profile too on the right device. This isn’t true of all browsers or all applications. It’s not true of all consumer monitors. If you want your images to look consistent and good for everyone on the web, sRGB is the right answer, at least for now. With soft proofing techniques you can tweak the image so it looks great with an sRGB profile. And looks great for everyone. Obviously, it’s up to you.

All the latest devaices use DCI-P3, not just Apple. At least in the "premium" segment.

DCI-P3 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[mollyc]

Is "instagram" webcontent? It's viewed (mostly I assume) on P3 devices. Then I perhaps upload it here.
Well, it's a jungle

My phone is not capable of P3 (iPhone 8+). I think there are a lot of legacy phones. And not everyone buys premium.

And really I don’t think Instagram is the best method for color accuracy when looking at a photo. It’s small resolution and compressed. IG does it’s own compression upon uploading so I would not assume it is left in your desired color space.

right now, in 2021, just export everything that is going to be seen on a screen as sRGB. Save your raw files and reexport in 5-10 years if the standards make a shift.

 

[r.harris1]

All the latest devaices use DCI-P3, not just Apple. At least in the "premium" segment.

DCI-P3 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Sure. I'll agree to disagree on the right color space to use for your image to be published to the web. If you feel publishing your images with a P3 profile attached gives you an advantage, there's literally no one stopping you .

If you're trialing Capture One, I'm assuming you've got a process recipe to attach a P3 profile you've created, correct?

 

[Jclok]

Since P3 is stated to have 25% wider space than sRGB, am I correct in assuming 8-bit panels have to use temporal dithering (FRC) to show these additional colors?

 

[jm31828]

Since P3 is stated to have 25% wider space than sRGB, am I correct in assuming 8-bit panels have to use temporal dithering (FRC) to show these additional colors?

Yeah, that is my understanding.... and for those that are sensitive to the temporal dithering, this is not great.