Concert Observations

[Scepticalscribe]

Isn't that more about engendered socialisation than anything else?

Very possibly.

Audiences at early European classival music concertns would have been genteel upper class types, so 'correct' behaviour was incredibly important to them. I like to think society has thankfully moved on.

Actually, paradoxically, I think that audiences attending early European classical concerts - precisely because they were open to the (paying) public, rather than held in the private palace of a bishop/prince who may have been the patron of a composer - were more populist (and possibly raucous, and prone to be receptive to revolutionary, or, at the very least, ideas considered radical), than music played in private venues.

I suspect that the genteel element only became more pronounced in the latter part of the 19th century.

I attended last night's Handel concert in jeans and trainers.

Each to their own, - and I agree that classical music has had an image (and justifiably so) of being excessively stuffy and middle class (and snobbish) for too long.

Some concerts that I have attended have had special cut-price seats for students (seated behind the orchestra), where people, by definition, tended to be less formally attired than elsewhere.

For me, for an evening concert, I'd wear smart casual, or business casual, but, again, each to their own, and there well may be an element of socialisation in that.

There were whistles and cheers from the audience at the end. How very unseemly...

No, not really.

I don't have a problem with cheers, applause, whistles, at the end of a performance, and never had.

Personally I found it dissapointing. I felty the tempo too 'rushed', and the horns were very off; duff notes, too harsh and strident a sound, overpowered the rest of the orchestra.

Fair comment.

On a more positive note, the contra-bassoon was one of very few remaining Baroque instruments still in use. Such a rich, warm sound.

Ah, a genuine contra-bassoon?

Wonderful.

The toilets were a joke though. Massive queue for the womens, only two out of eight wash basins in use in the mens. Very poor. Expected better at such a prestigious venue tbh.

Inexcusable, and I would be in complete agreement with you.

 

[HDFan]

I attended last night's Handel concert in jeans and trainers.

While getting an opera ticket in Rio de Janeiro I was told by the agent that I needed to wear a tie. Grudgingly I found one. However while walking up the steps to the hall I was redirected by an usher to the ticket booth where my ticket was exchanged for another one. It was opening night and everyone was in gowns and tuxes so my sport jacket just wouldn't do. The revised ticket was for a box seat right over the stage and so it turned out for the best. Had a delightful conversation with my box mate who was associated with the company.

Contrast to the attire worn at a Lohengrin performance in the U.S. Lots of people wearing jeans, including myself.

Just realized after attending that performance that it is much harder for me to give a good rating to an opera performance that it is for less complex concert. It turns out there are 5 criteria for me all which have to be superb, not ordered by priority:

1. The concert Hall
2. The Sets
3. The Costumes
4. The Music
5. The performers

At this performance I would rate the hall as 5, sets as 5, costumes as 5, music as 5, and no rating for performers as I'm not sure I would really notice much difference even if Caballe were performing since all of the singers were excellent. What made it memorable was the prelude to Act 3, the only musical part of the opera that moved me. It was worth it to see and hear the music that I have been listening to for years in context.

The only performance that I would give the full 50 points to was one in Vienna. Mozart of course. Hall of gold, gorgeous music.

 

[Abdichoudxyz]

Vienna. Mozart of course. Hall of gold

The Musikverein? Amazing. I heard some Mozart there in 2001; I was there on a 1 night stopover en route to Australia. Wandered down on a purely speculative basis, totally didn't expect to get in at all. Bought a last minute return ticket (concert totally sold out). Others waiting in the queue were all in groups, and there was literally one ticket left in the entire auditorium (it's quite small by modern standards). So they all graciously let me be the last lucky concert goer! I think all the VERY smartly dressed people took pity on the shabby little studenty type (I think I was literally in jeans and trainers). I was sat right behind the actual orchestra, in the few seats in the very corner.

I'll never forget that night. Such a memorable experience. Hearing Mozart being played in the very hall Mozart himself would have played to audiences hundreds of years previously. Magical. And all by pure chance. 😃

 

[KaliYoni]

Contrast to the attire worn at a Lohengrin performance in the U.S. Lots of people wearing jeans, including myself.

It turns out there are 5 criteria for me all which have to be superb, not ordered by priority:

1. The concert Hall
2. The Sets
3. The Costumes
4. The Music
5. The performers

At this performance I would rate the hall as 5, sets as 5, costumes as 5, music as 5, and no rating for performers

the full 50 points

So, you are using a scale of 0-10 for each criterion with 10 as the highest rating? If that's the case, was the performance of Lohengrin mediocre? What are some things you didn't like about the venue and the performance?

BTW, I see San Francisco Opera is currently in the middle of a Lohengrin run. If you're OK with talking about it, is that the company you saw?

 

[NoBoMac]

The original reviewer and maybe some in this thread would have been miserable at a Keith Jarrett show.

One of Jarrett's trademarks is his frequent, loud vocalizations. Jarrett is also physically active while playing jazz and improvised solo performances, but the vocalizations are generally absent whenever he plays classical repertoire. Jarrett has noted his vocalizations are based on involvement, not content, and are more of an interaction than a reaction.

[...]

Jarrett is highly intolerant of audience noise, especially during solo improvised performances. He feels extraneous noise affects his inspiration and distracts from the purity of the sound. Cough drops are routinely supplied to Jarrett's audiences in cold weather, and he has been known to stop playing and lead the crowd in a group cough.[49] He has also complained onstage about audience members taking photographs,[50] and has performed in the dark to prevent this.

I know of a couple of his live albums where he ordered everyone to basically sit on their hands during the performance and recording.

Joe Jackson had done that as well ("Big World"), but the reason was he wanted a studio-like recording driven by the "energy" from a live audience (folks could react after the song was done.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

While getting an opera ticket in Rio de Janeiro I was told by the agent that I needed to wear a tie. Grudgingly I found one. However while walking up the steps to the hall I was redirected by an usher to the ticket booth where my ticket was exchanged for another one. It was opening night and everyone was in gowns and tuxes so my sport jacket just wouldn't do. The revised ticket was for a box seat right over the stage and so it turned out for the best. Had a delightful conversation with my box mate who was associated with the company.

Contrast to the attire worn at a Lohengrin performance in the U.S. Lots of people wearing jeans, including myself.

Just realized after attending that performance that it is much harder for me to give a good rating to an opera performance that it is for less complex concert. It turns out there are 5 criteria for me all which have to be superb, not ordered by priority:

1. The concert Hall
2. The Sets
3. The Costumes
4. The Music
5. The performers

At this performance I would rate the hall as 5, sets as 5, costumes as 5, music as 5, and no rating for performers as I'm not sure I would really notice much difference even if Caballe were performing since all of the singers were excellent. What made it memorable was the prelude to Act 3, the only musical part of the opera that moved me. It was worth it to see and hear the music that I have been listening to for years in context.

The only performance that I would give the full 50 points to was one in Vienna. Mozart of course. Hall of gold, gorgeous music.

Are you grading out of ten, or, out of five?

There is a significant difference between awarding a grade of five out of five, - which is regarded as an excellent grade, (the sort of grade you will find on Goodreads, for example, where books are graded out of five, and this five star grade is also used by Amazon and Deliveroo), and five out of ten, which is merely mediocre.

Your post does not make clear what your base is.

 

[Muziekschuur]

I once read a review of a Lang Lang concert which I attended. Although Lang was in a tux the reviewer was shocked to see the physical gyrations which he made while he was playing. He seemed to feel that a concert player should be stiff and formal at all times.

It would be amusing to see him review a Cameron Carpenter, the punk organist, concert. (Cameron commissioned a $1.4 million traveling organ which can imitate the sound of many of the great organs so he doesn't have to learn how to play a specific instrument since they are all different). The reviewer seemed to oblivious to the fact that a concert is entertainment. It is not just the music - the visuals, costumes (or formal dress) the movements of the artist are all important, although maybe less so than the music.

Off topic here is an interesting video of Cameron playing 2 pianos at the same time:

Cameron Carpenter

For the extraordinary organist Cameron Carpenter a long-anticipated dream came true in 2014: the completion of his own instrument. ... ✓ Jetzt mehr erfahren!

www.sonyclassical.com

Dissapointed that he isn't guided towards directing. Alltho the footplay is impressive. Him playing with a second person on piano would have made it much better.

 

[H_D]

As someone who worked/works with orchestras since 2001, I still think that the field has a vast, vast potential beyond the 50+ audience that even Magnus Still is only aiming at. Labels such as Neue Meister, the success of Niels Frahm and Max Richter, the sold-out gigs of Vivi Vassileva, the success of Hauschkas festival in Düsseldorf and so on point at the hunger of a younger, smart audience for music beyond the pop/rock/hiphop/indie. I've been in concerts with members of my team, all about 20–30, and they were skeptical but ultimately blown avi by the likes of Eötvös and Finzi. And I think that being a bit smarter, loosing the tux and opting for a different, cooler kind of outfit, working maybe with a bit more light, maybe electronics and light and mixing up stuff instead of being puristic will go a long, long way, of making «classical» music feel vibrant and relevant again – and it seems to me to be a much smarter way than dumbing it down and playing ghastly «best of advertising and film music» at large events/festivals...

 

[Muziekschuur]

Most concerts have been canceled in the past 3 years. What was available was not innovative or from young musicians. The independent young musician will only be visible on youtube or will use some sort of distribution. But the open podia of Europe for pop rock have been closed.

 

[organerito]

I don't care what the conductor or the concert player does as long as it sounds great!

It is very difficult to make an instrument or an orchestra sound good.

 

[KaliYoni]

As someone who worked/works with orchestras since 2001, I still think that the field has a vast, vast potential beyond the 50+ audience that even Magnus Still is only aiming at. Labels such as Neue Meister, the success of Niels Frahm and Max Richter, the sold-out gigs of Vivi Vassileva, the success of Hauschkas festival in Düsseldorf and so on point at the hunger of a younger, smart audience for music beyond the pop/rock/hiphop/indie. I've been in concerts with members of my team, all about 20–30, and they were skeptical but ultimately blown avi by the likes of Eötvös and Finzi.

If you're interested, there was some discussion around expanding classical audiences here:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/classical-music-thread.2309711/post-31984244

And I think that being a bit smarter, loosing the tux and opting for a different, cooler kind of outfit, working maybe with a bit more light, maybe electronics and light and mixing up stuff instead of being puristic will go a long, long way, of making «classical» music feel vibrant and relevant again – and it seems to me to be a much smarter way than dumbing it down and playing ghastly «best of advertising and film music» at large events/festivals...

Mason Bates (more recently) and Kronos Quartet (more over time) have also been positive forces for that IMHO.

 

[Richard8655]

I don't care what the conductor or the concert player does as long as it sounds great!

It is very difficult to make an instrument or an orchestra sound good.

I agree. It doesn't really matter how orchestra players and conductors look or comport themselves, as it's always about the music. But being a visual species, we tend to want to see who and how the music is being produced, and it adds a little to the overall experience. But many just close their eyes during a concert.

I've read the oboe is an especially difficult instrument to learn and master.

 

[KaliYoni]

I've read the oboe is an especially difficult instrument to learn and master.

On the other hand…

https://www.harpercollins.com/products/a-devil-to-play-jasper-rees?variant=32205814300706

;-)

 

[rm5]

Most concerts have been canceled in the past 3 years. What was available was not innovative or from young musicians. The independent young musician will only be visible on youtube or will use some sort of distribution. But the open podia of Europe for pop rock have been closed.

I think you have a point, but this isn't entirely true. Take Laufey for instance, who has been touring all around the world as of late. I understand this doesn't fit your criteria of pop/rock, but it still shows how younger people are not entirely relying on social media or distribution platforms. Did Laufey become famous through social media? Sure. But she still performs live. In fact, according to Adam Neely, she has brought jazz to an entirely new generation.

Now, on a much smaller scale, who you call "independent young musicians" are performing plenty—and I know that because I know a lot of those people personally, and they're starting to make a name for themselves. I know (personally) people my age who have performed at Carnegie Hall and the Walt Disney Concert Hall.

People are not solely relying on social media and streaming services. I'm certainly not either.

 

[rm5]

Also, another important point, which I believe @H_D alluded to earlier... Obviously, there's no way to make someone appreciate a genre of music, but I think that somehow, classical music needs to be promoted to younger audiences. The same goes for hymns, too. Is that all the music I listen to? Absolutely not. Is that what I perform? No. But do I like and appreciate hymns and classical music? Yes.

In fact, Bach chorales (and other Baroque music) can teach us a LOT about contemporary styles. The other day, I downloaded a book full of Bach chorales to my iPad and played through some of them on the piano, and there were parts of them that are VERY reminiscent of jazz and pop progressions. This can also be found in Vivaldi's recorder concerti (which I was just listening to) and in the Well-Tempered Clavier. Of course, it's not limited to Baroque music, but that's what I've been observing specifically.

Learning to interpret the inner voices of hymns and choral pieces can also teach you a lot about reharmonization and composition in general. I like to sing the inner voices along with the track to better understand the movement underneath the melody. And it sounds so cool when that inner voice is heard more clearly (because I'm singing it).

My point is that doing this MIGHT help more people understand the point behind classical music--if they understood that it DOES in fact serve as the backbone for modern music.

 

[Richard8655]

On the other hand…

https://www.harpercollins.com/products/a-devil-to-play-jasper-rees?variant=32205814300706

;-)

Ah yes. Hadn't heard about that one too. Interesting!

 

[HDFan]

If that's the case, was the performance of Lohengrin mediocre? What are some things you didn't like about the venue and the performance?

BTW, I see San Francisco Opera is currently in the middle of a Lohengrin run. If you're OK with talking about it, is that the company you saw?

Can't say that it was mediocre. The costumes and set were all dark colors, mostly gray which was entirely fitting for the theme. I just like a lot of bright colors, lots of visual things going on which would not have been appropriate for this piece. I could have overcome it if I had been able to connect with the music other than the 3rd act overture and magnificent horns in the set balcony. Boris Gudunov has similarly dark staging and costumes but I can get around the depressing visuals by concentrating on the gorgeous music. Personal limitation.

Yes.

 

[HDFan]

Your post does not make clear what your base is.

Sorry, arbitrary scale of 1-10.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Sorry, arbitrary scale of 1-10.

Thank you.