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Stuey3D

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jul 8, 2014
832
951
Northamptonshire, United Kingdom
I'm not planning on upgrading my 12 Pro Max as its good enough for what I do, however I'm not going to lie "console level" gaming on the new Pro's is a very interesting concept but I wonder how it is going to be executed.

First of all the big question is what are they going to do about file sizes? Most AAA console games in recent times clock in at northwards of 50GB per game with some far exceeding 100GB. Death Stranding a title announced in the text press release after the event on the base PS4 which is the weakest hardware it is designed to run on sits at 55GB. There are also Nintendo Switch games which are normally very stripped back visually that clock in over 20GB with NBA 2k23 sitting at 55GB.
With this in mind how are they going to get file sizes down enough to fit on a non user upgradable 128GB general purpose computing device which needs storage for other things too? I know reducing texture detail will help a lot here but surely not by a massive amount plus you need to keep the textures somewhat decent as the iPhone has a hi resolution screen and the potential to output video to a larger screen too which leads me onto another question.

On the presentation an end slide showed that the iPhone will be able to output upto 4K60 via USB-C suggesting the plethora of docks out there will work potentially allowing the iPhone to be like a Nintendo Switch. However if Apple nerf the video output like the non M series iPads whereby you get basic mirroring with no scaling then that will be as good as useless, so I wonder if maybe when connected via a dock if games are then able to take over the external screen fully allowing a fully immersive console like experience, which then goes back to my first question of how much can they get away with stripping out of the games if they can potentially be connected up to the big screen?

Finally there was no real mention of chip cooling, just a small slide and the line of how they redesigned the chassis to allow for cooler running.
Now as we all know gaming generates significant heat and even your 3nm chips will get toasty real quick so you have to wonder if Apple have put in some kind of vapour chamber cooling tech or something, but if they did why wouldn't they make a bigger deal out of this as cooling is a big selling point on devices nowadays.
I ask this one because my poor 12 Pro Max used to practically melt in seconds just playing the Microsoft XCloud beta, the screen would dim in about a minute or 2 and the phone started to feel uncomfortably warm and that was just streaming a video and sending control data back to a server with no heavy lifting on the device itself, it was so bad that i used it a couple of times and gave up on it.
If Apple haven't implemented decent cooling on the new iPhone 15 Pro's you may have console level gaming for about 5 minutes until it dims and throttles unless you live in the arctic and if customers have spent decent money on a "console level" game only for it to run well for a few minutes then Apple will be issuing a lot of App store refunds and potentially hardware refunds if it doesn't live up to the hype they gave it in the presentation.

So as impressive as it looks in the presentation and demos, I remain very sceptical as those are some big hurdles to jump to be a decent "console level" gaming device.
 
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JCCL

macrumors 68000
Apr 3, 2010
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Good points. Console level gaming is the only thing that I found interesting. But yet even then I think I’ll pass:
- it will probably turn the phone into a frying pan
- Already have a Series x, Switch and a PS5, which provide a better experience. If I was to game on the phone, means I would have to buy the same game again.
- I have my doubt about this taking off. iOS and AAA gaming are very different markets. Hardcore gamers want to play in PCs or dedicated devices, casual gamers don’t want to pay 60-70 USD upfront for a game (even if they end up paying more in micro transactions). Will be interesting to see how this plays out and if Apple gets dev support, they haven’t, even with the M CPUs in the Mac, the gaming landscape in the platform remains quite barren
 

Stuey3D

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jul 8, 2014
832
951
Northamptonshire, United Kingdom
Good points. Console level gaming is the only thing that I found interesting. But yet even then I think I’ll pass:
- it will probably turn the phone into a frying pan
- Already have a Series x, Switch and a PS5, which provide a better experience. If I was to game on the phone, means I would have to buy the same game again.
- I have my doubt about this taking off. iOS and AAA gaming are very different markets. Hardcore gamers want to play in PCs or dedicated devices, casual gamers don’t want to pay 60-70 USD upfront for a game (even if they end up paying more in micro transactions). Will be interesting to see how this plays out and if Apple gets dev support, they haven’t, even with the M CPUs in the Mac, the gaming landscape in the platform remains quite barren
I think if they stick to older AAA games such as the few they’ve announced and they retail for £20-£25 a go without added micro transactions then it could be a good deal.

That being said knowing developer greed lately with everything either being a subscription or full of micro transactions I could fully imagine added micro transactions where the original game didn’t. Want extra shotgun ammo to take Lady WhatsHerFace down in RE:Village then that’s an extra £1.99 for 10 rounds etc. I’d like to hope they wouldn’t do that but as most mobile games are just micro transaction farms it wouldn’t surprise me.

That being said I too also have a Series S, PS5, Switch, Gaming Laptop so iPhone gaming wouldn’t be a big deal for me as I could experience better elsewhere however the Steam Deck has proven there is a market for on the go gaming.

My best mate has the slightly more powerful gaming laptop that I’ve got and a full Ryzen 7 RTX3080 PC, Xbox Series X, PS5, and Switch yet he chooses the Steam Deck over all of that because it’s convenient and he doesn’t have to worry too much about space which in his house he doesn’t have much of.

If the iPhone can provide a better than Switch level of gaming something on par with the Steam Deck and the ability to output to a big TV properly scaled then it could be a very capable game system and with that the Mac may also benefit too with the apps easily ported between the 2. Storage would be the big issue because the Switch, & Steam Deck+ Clones all have expandable storage via micro SD cards. Now in theory Apple could allow games to run off an external SSD as the Pro iPhone has USB 3 which would be good for sat docked to a TV gaming but not so good for on the go and realistically would probably cause more problems due to a high possibility of accidentally disconnecting the SSD whilst it’s in use for gaming corrupting the game and maybe the whole iOS files system along the way.

I guess this is a good way of selling you the 1TB model for the type of people who may want the storage “just in case I game on it”
 

JCCL

macrumors 68000
Apr 3, 2010
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The big difference with what you’re saying and comparing to the deck thoug, is that with the Deck you can just bring your existing steam library with you, don’t need to buy anything again. With iOS, you can’t bring any existing library. Why would I want to buy RE4 Remake if I played it on my Series x I own it there, or Death Stranding (which I adored by the way) if I have it on my PS5 and I cannot bring that license to iOS.
 

Andeddu

macrumors 68000
Dec 21, 2016
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I think the 15 Pro might be so powerful that it’ll be on a par with the Switch 2. It’ll probably provide a better performance than the Steam Deck. I have zero interest in the 15 Pro so the only thing that’ll convince me swapping my 13 for it is a nice gaming library consisting of full-fat console titles.

The 13 is a very powerful piece of tech and it blew me away with Alien Isolation which is a full PS4 title. It looked no worse than the full console version either and is hands down the most stunning game I’ve seen on a smartphone. It’s been a while, but I’ll be interested in seeing more console quality games like Death Stranding and Assassins Creed: Mirage on such a small device.
 

rui no onna

Contributor
Oct 25, 2013
14,585
12,708
If the iPhone can provide a better than Switch level of gaming something on par with the Steam Deck and the ability to output to a big TV properly scaled then it could be a very capable game system and with that the Mac may also benefit too with the apps easily ported between the 2. Storage would be the big issue because the Switch, & Steam Deck+ Clones all have expandable storage via micro SD cards. Now in theory Apple could allow games to run off an external SSD as the Pro iPhone has USB 3 which would be good for sat docked to a TV gaming but not so good for on the go and realistically would probably cause more problems due to a high possibility of accidentally disconnecting the SSD whilst it’s in use for gaming corrupting the game and maybe the whole iOS files system along the way.

I guess this is a good way of selling you the 1TB model for the type of people who may want the storage “just in case I game on it”


Technically, the iPhone can provide much better performance than the Switch. Even something like the A12 or A13 is several times faster than the Tegra X1. Caveat, the App Store model isn’t exactly conducive to $50-80 games.

Storage isn’t really an issue. As you mentioned, that’s a good way for Apple to upsell customers to 512GB-1TB models.
 

MayaUser

macrumors 68030
Nov 22, 2021
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Until enought AAA games comes for the iphones and ipads...we will have from 256 ssd to probably 4T
And those who knows want to game AAA will chose the 1T 2T or larger phones..that easy
Even most of gaming laptops are sold with 1T or 2T
But i still think the next M3 ipad pro will be the starter for true AAA...probably double the gpu power, now with hardware ray tracing...its hard for a gamer on the go to say no to that...but again...Apple needs far more AAA games sooner than later
 

Stuey3D

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jul 8, 2014
832
951
Northamptonshire, United Kingdom
Technically, the iPhone can provide much better performance than the Switch. Even something like the A12 or A13 is several times faster than the Tegra X1. Caveat, the App Store model isn’t exactly conducive to $50-80 games.

Storage isn’t really an issue. As you mentioned, that’s a good way for Apple to upsell customers to 512GB-1TB models.
Yeah that is the issue the iPhone has been capable for a long time but the mobile gaming space is really only free to play micro transaction filled games or much older titles sold for sub £10

I guess the upsell to 512-1TB is exactly what Apple are after but I do think the Pro should’ve started with 256GB like the Max because even with that base storage it would be enough to have a couple of AAA games stored ready to go and having enough room for the rest of your stuff.
The big difference with what you’re saying and comparing to the deck thoug, is that with the Deck you can just bring your existing steam library with you, don’t need to buy anything again. With iOS, you can’t bring any existing library. Why would I want to buy RE4 Remake if I played it on my Series x I own it there, or Death Stranding (which I adored by the way) if I have it on my PS5 and I cannot bring that license to iOS.
I agree if you’ve already got the title on another platform would you be willing to pay again to take it on the move, the Steam Deck has done so well because everyone can play their existing stuff without further cost. That is why I think maybe older titles sold for about £20 may do well.

However if you have Assassins Creed Mirage on Xbox/PS5/PC for £70 and on iOS for £70 I doubt you will buy the iOS version as you have the much better version at home. That being said though the Switch games even though ports from other systems are technically inferior by a long shot they still sell extremely well as for some portability and flexibility beat graphics.

The main draw to iPhone gaming will be the casuals who only have an iPhone and no other gaming devices but then are they going to pay £70 for a full AAA game? I very much doubt it.
 

rui no onna

Contributor
Oct 25, 2013
14,585
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Yeah that is the issue the iPhone has been capable for a long time but the mobile gaming space is really only free to play micro transaction filled games or much older titles sold for sub £10

I guess the upsell to 512-1TB is exactly what Apple are after but I do think the Pro should’ve started with 256GB like the Max because even with that base storage it would be enough to have a couple of AAA games stored ready to go and having enough room for the rest of your stuff.

I agree if you’ve already got the title on another platform would you be willing to pay again to take it on the move, the Steam Deck has done so well because everyone can play their existing stuff without further cost. That is why I think maybe older titles sold for about £20 may do well.

However if you have Assassins Creed Mirage on Xbox/PS5/PC for £70 and on iOS for £70 I doubt you will buy the iOS version as you have the much better version at home. That being said though the Switch games even though ports from other systems are technically inferior by a long shot they still sell extremely well as for some portability and flexibility beat graphics.

The main draw to iPhone gaming will be the casuals who only have an iPhone and no other gaming devices but then are they going to pay £70 for a full AAA game? I very much doubt it.

I personally would. Granted, I’m no stranger to double/triple dipping (PS4/5, Switch and Steam).

I have a Switch OLED, Switch Lite, Steam Deck and ASUS ROG Ally but frankly, I rarely carry those with me. For the most part, I just use them for couch gaming (usually when someone’s watching on Netflix/Disney+/etc on the big TV).

I’ve tried GeForce Now but internet is too unreliable for me to get a decent game streaming experience.
 

Stuey3D

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jul 8, 2014
832
951
Northamptonshire, United Kingdom
I personally would. Granted, I’m no stranger to double/triple dipping (PS4/5, Switch and Steam).

I have a Switch OLED, Switch Lite, Steam Deck and ASUS ROG Ally but frankly, I rarely carry those with me. For the most part, I just use them for couch gaming (usually when someone’s watching on Netflix/Disney+/etc on the big TV).

I’ve tried GeForce Now but internet is too unreliable for me to get a decent game streaming experience.
You sound exactly like my mate, he buys games on multiple systems. I usually just buy it on whatever has the best sale at the time or in the case of multiplayer games which one my friends are all playing on.
 

Stuey3D

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jul 8, 2014
832
951
Northamptonshire, United Kingdom
One part of the equation we all seem to be missing myself included is that if rumour is to be believed then iOS will need to be opened up to allow sideloading and alternate app stores to comply with EU and other government laws (I also believe the US FTC is carrying out a similar investigation)

Now if this comes to pass then you can almost be certain that Valve will port Steam over as an alternate App Store for iOS and when that happens you’ve got your price points sorted and you only have to buy once and you get it on every (non game console) platform the game supports. Plus people who use Steam will be accustomed to paying full game prices rather than App Store users who are used to the current app monetisation model.
 

rui no onna

Contributor
Oct 25, 2013
14,585
12,708
One part of the equation we all seem to be missing myself included is that if rumour is to be believed then iOS will need to be opened up to allow sideloading and alternate app stores to comply with EU and other government laws (I also believe the US FTC is carrying out a similar investigation)

Now if this comes to pass then you can almost be certain that Valve will port Steam over as an alternate App Store for iOS and when that happens you’ve got your price points sorted and you only have to buy once and you get it on every (non game console) platform the game supports. Plus people who use Steam will be accustomed to paying full game prices rather than App Store users who are used to the current app monetisation model.

There’s still the ARM vs x86 issue for PC games.
 

Stuey3D

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jul 8, 2014
832
951
Northamptonshire, United Kingdom
There’s still the ARM vs x86 issue for PC games.
Yeah there is that but if Apple are already cozying up to the big devs for the App Store and you have game porting toolkit for the Mac which could easily be modified to port games for iOS too developers wouldn’t have to do a huge amount of work for what is a huge potential market.

Mac’s are still too small of a market for developers to really bother with even if you have a tool that will do most of the work for you, however iOS on the other hand is HUGE and I think most devs may jump at the chance to have a slice of that market.
 

JCCL

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Apr 3, 2010
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Yeah there is that but if Apple are already cozying up to the big devs for the App Store and you have game porting toolkit for the Mac which could easily be modified to port games for iOS too developers wouldn’t have to do a huge amount of work for what is a huge potential market.

Mac’s are still too small of a market for developers to really bother with even if you have a tool that will do most of the work for you, however iOS on the other hand is HUGE and I think most devs may jump at the chance to have a slice of that market.

But overall its a very different market. Several devs have tried full priced released in the past, it hasn't worked. I am highly skeptical anything will be different this time, but would love to be proven wrong, as I hate the current state of iOS and Mobile Gaming as a whole, and would like to have another vehicle for high quality AAA games.
 

Stuey3D

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jul 8, 2014
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Northamptonshire, United Kingdom
But overall its a very different market. Several devs have tried full priced released in the past, it hasn't worked. I am highly skeptical anything will be different this time, but would love to be proven wrong, as I hate the current state of iOS and Mobile Gaming as a whole, and would like to have another vehicle for high quality AAA games.
That’s where Steam being ported to iOS which I said above could be the catalyst for iOS/Mac gaming really taking off.

If the iPhone is forced to open up to sideloading and alternate app stores by the worlds governments then you can bet Valve will want in on that action and port the Mac version of Steam to iOS. Now Steam is on iOS you only have to pay for the game once and you get it on Windows/Mac/Linux/iOS if the developer has done the various ports and with cloud saving between the lot it’s gaming nirvana.

Steam users are already accustomed to the current gaming market and the prices that are charged, plus Steam sales are legendary and let’s not forget key resellers too. I bet the overlap between PC gamers and iOS users is rather substantial so you’ve then got a market already in place.

Obviously this is all hypothetical and will most likely never happen, but the technology is already here for it to happen without too much hard work.

On another hypothetical note there is nothing stopping the iPhone when plugged into a USB-C Dock with a keyboard and mouse from becoming a Mac Nano, imagine Samsung Dex but rather than just Android with a desktop you get a full Mac install instead. You can bet that new iPhone 15 Pro is either very close or even surpassing the M2 MacBook Air in raw performance numbers, but alas Apple will never allow something as cool as that as they wouldn’t wanna risk you not buying a separate Mac would they.
 
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JCCL

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Apr 3, 2010
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That’s where Steam being ported to iOS which I said above could be the catalyst for iOS/Mac gaming really taking off.

If the iPhone is forced to open up to sideloading and alternate app stores by the worlds governments then you can bet Valve will want in on that action and port the Mac version of Steam to iOS. Now Steam is on iOS you only have to pay for the game once and you get it on Windows/Mac/Linux/iOS if the developer has done the various ports and with cloud saving between the lot it’s gaming nirvana.
Yeah highly doubt Apple would allow this at all. They want to get their cut from each software sale. Will see what happens with the EU mandate, but doubt Apple would open it elsewhere unless required by law.

Interesting points for discussion though
 

Stuey3D

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jul 8, 2014
832
951
Northamptonshire, United Kingdom
Yeah highly doubt Apple would allow this at all. They want to get their cut from each software sale. Will see what happens with the EU mandate, but doubt Apple would open it elsewhere unless required by law.

Interesting points for discussion though
Oh of course Apple wouldn't change a thing if they didn't have to, however they may not have a choice if not just the EU but multiple world governments force them to open up iOS.
 

Stuey3D

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jul 8, 2014
832
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Northamptonshire, United Kingdom
Snazzy Labs tweeted out a link to this Chinese language review of the 15 Pro and in it the reviewer is playing RE:Village on an external screen it’s impressive but also a bit disappointing too.

It’s impressive because it looked fairly decent and seemed to be running smoothly but disappointing as it shows Apple have only half baked the 2nd screen experience.

The 2nd screen is mirroring only so on an external screen there will be black bars and the game won’t fill the screen fully which isn’t too much of an issue as it still looked good on his screen just a bit more cinematic, however this is a really inefficient way of running things.
Screen mirroring is pretty inefficient to the tune of around up to 10% performance drop depending on GPU power, not to mention the screen being on generating extra heat when it doesn’t need to be.

I get Apple are trying to make things as simple as possible but literally all you need is for it be in mirroring mode for normal use and then when a game is run scale it correctly to the external display and black out most of the internal display leaving just the swipe bar at the bottom just in case people suddenly forget how to exit apps. On a iPad video apps scale properly on an external screen, so just do that but black out the internal screen.

I mean what would really be cool is if Apple implemented a controller based UI when playing games so that the PS/Xbox button could act as the home swipe and then you could navigate iOS on the TV with the controller, but that is a bit much to ask at this stage lol.
 
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Stuey3D

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jul 8, 2014
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The review in question, I copied the link from Snazzy’s twitter feed so not sure if it’s a tracked link or not. It should also start from the correct time in the video for the game demo.

 
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