Resolved Do the 2010+ Mac minis support 10.13 (High Sierra)?

[Neodym]

You may want to check temperatures and fan speeds on your mini. On a machine that old, the heat transfer paste is probably pretty hardened and less able to transfer heat away from the chip. If there is lots of dust accumulated in the machine as well, it may be throttling already under moderate load.

 

[sublunar]

The 3.0Ghz does beat it out in single core, but multi-core isn't even a competition.

3925 Single, 7633 Multi - Late 2014 3.0Ghz i7 (Dual)
3718 Single, 12636 Multi - Late 2012 2.6Ghz i7 (Quad)

Want to see something crazy? [Submitted benchmarks from Geekbench]

Intel Core i5-8250U - 15w quad core, 8 threads:
3807 Single, 11427 Multi - Potential 2018 1.6GHz i5 (Quad)

Intel Core i5-7260U - 15w dual core, 4 threads - 15w:
4048 Single, 8168 Multi - Non Touchbar Macbook Pro 13" with Iris Plus Graphics 640

Intel Core i5-7267U - 28w dual core, 4 threads - 28w:
3878 Single, 7762 Multi - Touchbar MacBook Pro 13" with Iris Plus Graphics 650

The last two CPUs are what Mini owners could have been enjoying had Apple deigned up update the Mini last year.

Graphics performance on the Kaby Lake CPUs will be vastly superior to every other Mini and the cpu performance is very good. The uplift over 2014 Haswell models would be astounding.

And to throw the cat among the pigeons: A11Bionic (iPhone X):
Single: 4017, 9286 Multi

 

[opeter]

Yes, the new cheap quad core i5-8250U CPUs are already available in many notebooks, small factor computers etc. from other companies. But not in computers from Apple.

I do also hope, we see some refresh in June.

 

[RyanXM]

Want to see something crazy? [Submitted benchmarks from Geekbench]

Intel Core i5-8250U - 15w quad core, 8 threads:
3807 Single, 11427 Multi - Potential 2018 1.6GHz i5 (Quad)

Intel Core i5-7260U - 15w dual core, 4 threads - 15w:
4048 Single, 8168 Multi - Non Touchbar Macbook Pro 13" with Iris Plus Graphics 640

Intel Core i5-7267U - 28w dual core, 4 threads - 28w:
3878 Single, 7762 Multi - Touchbar MacBook Pro 13" with Iris Plus Graphics 650

The last two CPUs are what Mini owners could have been enjoying had Apple deigned up update the Mini last year.

Graphics performance on the Kaby Lake CPUs will be vastly superior to every other Mini and the cpu performance is very good. The uplift over 2014 Haswell models would be astounding.

And to throw the cat among the pigeons: A11Bionic (iPhone X):
Single: 4017, 9286 Multi

The craziest part is the 3720QM (2.6GHz) in the 2012 is a 45W part! 45W!!!

The i7-8700T is a 35w, 6 core, 12 thread processor. 2.4GHz Base, 4.0GHz Turbo.
The i7-8750H is a 45w, 6 core, 12 thread processor. 2.2GHz Base, 4.1GHz Turbo.
The i7-8850H is a 45w, 6 core, 12 thread processor. 2.6GHz Base, 4.3GHz Turbo.
These all have the Intel UHD Graphics 630.

Looking at the Thermal Output of the 2011 i7 with AMD 6630M, it has the highest thermal output of any year unibody Mac Mini (2010-current). One can guess that the TDP of the i7 and the 6630M to be somewhere around 55w, give or take a few. So with that said, they might be able to redesign the heatsink (and use better thermal paste) to use the i7-8705G with RX Vega M. It has a TDP of 65w, which I could imagine they could deal with. I'd also imagine they are going to DDR4L or LPDDR4 and solid state only storage. I just don't see them updating the Mac mini to anything serious, given how good the current generation of "mobile" CPUs are.

 

[sublunar]

The craziest part is the 3720QM (2.6GHz) in the 2012 is a 45W part! 45W!!!

The i7-8700T is a 35w, 6 core, 12 thread processor. 2.4GHz Base, 4.0GHz Turbo.
The i7-8750H is a 45w, 6 core, 12 thread processor. 2.2GHz Base, 4.1GHz Turbo.
The i7-8850H is a 45w, 6 core, 12 thread processor. 2.6GHz Base, 4.3GHz Turbo.
These all have the Intel UHD Graphics 630.

Looking at the Thermal Output of the 2011 i7 with AMD 6630M, it has the highest thermal output of any year unibody Mac Mini (2010-current). One can guess that the TDP of the i7 and the 6630M to be somewhere around 55w, give or take a few. So with that said, they might be able to redesign the heatsink (and use better thermal paste) to use the i7-8705G with RX Vega M. It has a TDP of 65w, which I could imagine they could deal with. I'd also imagine they are going to DDR4L or LPDDR4 and solid state only storage. I just don't see them updating the Mac mini to anything serious, given how good the current generation of "mobile" CPUs are.

The 6630M was used in the middle SKU, when specified with the i7-2620M (which is only a 35w CPU) rather than the 45w of the server model i7-2635QM which had the 45w quad core, 8 threads at 2GHz. I can't recall if the mid SKU too hot for the case TDP.

Apple have never used T series parts - these have sockets which is a big no-no for Apple. Far more likely is a BGA part which is soldered onto the motherboard such as the truly mobile products whose heat profiles are more suited for use in small form factor machines. There's no economy of scale in using T series parts in the most neglected part of Apple's range. This is why Apple had been using parts from the 2013 MacBook Pros in the Mini.

The current case was designed for a 45w CPU but I reckon Apple are trending towards even lower wattage parts such as the 15w ones because they are proving more than capable and they don't want benchmarks to start competing with lower end iMacs.

It's just an aside at this point but Apple stopped using the Haswell CPUs for the 2013 models in July 2014. In July 2019 Apple don't have to order those parts for repairing 2013 MacBook Pros. I'd suggest that the 2014 Mini has a natural end point for manufacturing purposes at that point when the 2013 MacBook Pro becomes vintage. It could then become cheaper for Apple to replace defective 2014 Minis with stockpiled ones for the next 5 years. Perfect timing for a relaunched Mini alongside the Mac Pro?

 

[RyanXM]

The 6630M was used in the middle SKU, when specified with the i7-2620M (which is only a 35w CPU) rather than the 45w of the server model i7-2635QM which had the 45w quad core, 8 threads at 2GHz. I can't recall if the mid SKU too hot for the case TDP.

Correct. The i5-2520 and the i7-2620 used in the Mid 2011, were both 35w parts with the 6630M in those SKUs. I've been searching for the TDP of the 6630M but I haven't been able to find it. I have a couple of these coming back from repair and will do some digging into the wattage, etc. My assumption, based on experience with them and the fact that they run MUCH hotter than even the Server SKU from Mid 2011, is they (6630M) have a TDP above 10w, putting the package total over that of the 45w Quad-Core CPUs.

And I completely agree, Apple won't do anything crazy with the Mac mini. I remember when the Mid 2012 15" rMBP came out. You could get a $799 Mac mini that had similar performance CPU wise as the $1799 base model 15" rMBP.

 

[sublunar]

Correct. The i5-2520 and the i7-2620 used in the Mid 2011, were both 35w parts with the 6630M in those SKUs. I've been searching for the TDP of the 6630M but I haven't been able to find it. I have a couple of these coming back from repair and will do some digging into the wattage, etc. My assumption, based on experience with them and the fact that they run MUCH hotter than even the Server SKU from Mid 2011, is they (6630M) have a TDP above 10w, putting the package total over that of the 45w Quad-Core CPUs.

And I completely agree, Apple won't do anything crazy with the Mac mini. I remember when the Mid 2012 15" rMBP came out. You could get a $799 Mac mini that had similar performance CPU wise as the $1799 base model 15" rMBP.

You may be right with the 6630m in that case but it would probably have triggered some throttling if things or too warm in there or the fans would be going more often.

In addition, when you consider that 28w cpus are the express domain of the touch bar enabled MacBook Pro you will realise that the price difference now would be staggering.

And a notable lack of announcement for a coffee lake 15w cpu with iris graphics puts the non touch bar update in doubt too.

Finally, the 15w i5-8250u is currently out but its use could be in doubt if Apple decide that the MacBook Air is getting a Retina display in October they would want a better Gpu but there is nothing suitable.

 

[opeter]

It's just an aside at this point but Apple stopped using the Haswell CPUs for the 2013 models in July 2014. In July 2019 Apple don't have to order those parts for repairing 2013 MacBook Pros. I'd suggest that the 2014 Mini has a natural end point for manufacturing purposes at that point when the 2013 MacBook Pro becomes vintage. It could then become cheaper for Apple to replace defective 2014 Minis with stockpiled ones for the next 5 years. Perfect timing for a relaunched Mini alongside the Mac Pro?

True. Absolutely agree. However I have some strange feeling, we won't get anything of that.
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Finally, the 15w i5-8250u is currently out but its use could be in doubt if Apple decide that the MacBook Air is getting a Retina display in October they would want a better Gpu but there is nothing suitable.

What about Radeon R530 or similar?
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/3002/radeon-530-mobile
https://www.amd.com/en/products/graphics/radeon-530

Or anything between R520 and R540.

 

[sublunar]

True. Absolutely agree. However I have some strange feeling, we won't get anything of that.
[doublepost=1526146654][/doublepost]

What about Radeon R530 or similar?
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/3002/radeon-530-mobile
https://www.amd.com/en/products/graphics/radeon-530

Or anything between R520 and R540.

The MBA is only rated for 15w - any GPU on top of a 15w CPU would break the heat budget - and would go against Aple's trajectory of having Intel provide decent graphics ability on their CPU. There might have been some interest in using 15w parts with Iris Graphics - the sort that Apple are using in the 2016/17 non touch bar MacBook Pros - but there's been no successor mentioned for Coffee Lake this year.

Cannon Lake may get a release late this year but I'd suspect an Iris Graphics variant would not be in time for a 2018 release.

 

[California]

Did the reinstall and other steps. It is better but still not sure if it's usable for quick typing and hot key use. Appreciate the help though.

Interesting. I upgraded both the 2.4 and 2.66 2010 mac minis to El Capitan and they were fine.