iPhone Do you kill apps from multi-tasking on iPhone?

[Wolfpup]

Notes syncing originally worked through IMAP (Email folders). Not sure if that has changed recently.

Huh...so I guess that WOULD have kept syncing in the background since even prior to 7 email could sync in the background.

Well, at any rate, iCloud.com and Notes on iOS all sync fairly well, while Google's stuff has always seemed flakier to me. And while you can sync somehow or other with Gmail, I'm not sure where it's actually being stored, like I never actually see it anywhere on Google's services, and it doesn't seem to sync quickly or reliably, other than sometimes I suddenly have ancient notes pop up from Gmail on an iOS device lol

 

[Max(IT)]

Again, you are not understanding what is happening. You posted the explanation yourself. Push notifications are one way to trigger a Background Refresh.

For example, a notification comes in for the Gmail app. Prior to iOS 7, that's all that happened. However, with the latest update that supports Background Refresh in iOS 7, the Gmail app now runs in the background to download the message and then moves to a suspended state. The message is available when you open the app.

That's what a Background Refresh is. It can also be triggered by the OS on a schedule determined by when you typically use the app. And it can be triggered by a location. All of these work even if the app is completely closed.

But that is what I'm saying !
And could work only for apps based on such a system service like push notification. If you have another kind of program, or a game, it can't run in background if forced to close via multitasking.

 

[BaldiMac]

But that is what I'm saying !
And could work only for apps based on such a system service like push notification. If you have another kind of program, or a game, it can't run in background if forced to close via multitasking.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Any app can use Background Refresh.

 

[Max(IT)]

I have no idea what you are talking about. Any app can use Background Refresh.

Nope. It has to be designed to use that.

 

[BaldiMac]

Nope. It has to be designed to use that.

That's true. Not sure how that disagrees with what I said.

Have you tried to confirm that Background Refresh works as I originally described yet?

 

[Nolander07]

You could post it THREE times and it wouldn't change the fact that Background Refresh continues to work if you "close" an app.







The part that you are missing is "such as tracking location or responding to VoIP calls." As I said, these activities (in addition to background music and task completion) are quit when you close an app from the multitasking view. However, Background Refresh is not stopped. It happens on a schedule, or in response to push notification regardless of whether the app has been closed.



Again, you can test it yourself.

This is true. I have "closed" fantastical and scheduled events on other devices are still added via background app refresh and push. They do not load onto the calendar after I open it, it is refreshed in the background. I have done this many times. The app does not have to be open or running in the background, or even in the recently used list in order for background app refresh to work.

 

[Max(IT)]

That's true. Not sure how that disagrees with what I said.

Have you tried to confirm that Background Refresh works as I originally described yet?

Yes I did.

Gmail is working as you described, but Dropbox don't.
I start upload 5 photos, leave it in background and it continue to upload photos while I'm posting in the forum. If I force it closed, it stops uploading the photo, also with Background refresh enabled.

 

[BaldiMac]

Yes I did.

Gmail is working as you described, but Dropbox don't.
I start upload 5 photos, leave it in background and it continue to upload photos while I'm posting in the forum. If I force it closed, it stops uploading the photo, also with Background refresh enabled.

Because you are talking about two different things. Gmail uses Background Refresh which is a new service introduced in iOS 7.

In the situation that you described, Dropbox is using the same background processing API (task completion) that has been around since iOS 4. It can also use background refresh, but that is not what you just described.

As I have said from the beginning of this conversation, the original multitasking APIs (music, VOIP, Location, task completion) are quit when you close an app from the multitasking view. However, an app will still run at its next triggered background refresh even if it has been closed.

 

[Max(IT)]

Because you are talking about two different things. Gmail uses Background Refresh which is a new service introduced in iOS 7.

In the situation that you described, Dropbox is using the same background processing API (task completion) that has been around since iOS 4. It can also use background refresh, but that is not what you just described.

As I have said from the beginning of this conversation, the original multitasking APIs (music, VOIP, Location, task completion) are quit when you close an app from the multitasking view. However, an app will still run at its next triggered background refresh even if it has been closed.

Dropbox is reported under the same list of apps with Background Refresh enabled in my Settings, so it should work the same way, but it doesn't.

 

[BaldiMac]

Dropbox is reported under the same list of apps with Background Refresh enabled in my Settings, so it should work the same way, but it doesn't.

Again, two different things. Dropbox can use Background Refresh. However, what you described is not Background Refresh. It is the task completion API that was introduced with iOS 4.

An example of Dropbox using a Background Refresh is if you uploaded a file on your computer, and Dropbox downloaded the file to your iPhone in the background without the app ever being opened.

 

[Max(IT)]

Again, two different things. Dropbox can use Background Refresh. However, what you described is not Background Refresh. It is the task completion API that was introduced with iOS 4.

An example of Dropbox using a Background Refresh is if you uploaded a file on your computer, and Dropbox downloaded the file to your iPhone in the background without the app ever being opened.

You clearly don't know how Dropbox works ...

It doesn't download anything in background. It UPLOADS files in background .... but it works ONLY if the app is still in background, whatever you have selected in the background refresh setting

 

[BaldiMac]

You clearly don't know how Dropbox works ...

It doesn't download anything in background. It UPLOADS files in background .... but it works ONLY if the app is still in background, whatever you have selected in the background refresh setting

I give up. You can't seem to grasp the difference between Background Refresh and the older multitasking APIs.

 

[C DM]

You clearly don't know how Dropbox works ...

It doesn't download anything in background. It UPLOADS files in background .... but it works ONLY if the app is still in background, whatever you have selected in the background refresh setting

I think what he is trying to say is that for Dropbox, for example, background refresh can be used for some actions, but not for others. In the case of uploading something background refresh wouldn't apply, which is why you see what you describe, but in the case of perhaps you uploading a file through your computer to your Dropbox account then perhaps background refresh can be used for the action of the Dropbox app finding out about that upload and syncing its file listing and information to reflect that so that you would see it the next time you open the app.

 

[Zxxv]

They are in a folder. I can't keep all of my most used apps on a single home screen. So it would generally require me opening a folder or swiping home screens, that extra step. Obviously this isn't always the case because phone, mail, messages etc I have front and center.

But a lot of my work related apps reside in a folder. Exercise apps are less used so they are on my second home page but I goto the gym daily so even then they are used quite frequently.

At this point I still feel it's user preference and I'm trying different things currently and rearranging something's because a lot of you guys feel there are better ways. I'll give it a shot, nothing to lose aside from a couple seconds a day.

I know what you mean about putting apps in places to save time I have my home screen as my second screen so its in the middle of my 3rd and 1st screen. 1st screen is stuff I occasionally goto, 3rd screen shopping. So its only one swipe in general everyday use.

Spotlight is faster for searching the web, from home screen/springboard

1 pull down, 2 type, 3 search google

as opposed to 1 open safari, 2 touch search bar, 3 type, 4 search

 

[R.Stoychev]

I kill the apps before going to bed

 

[jabingla2810]

Nope. Apps with Background Refresh enabled will still run in the background as designed even if "closed" in the multitasking view.

The line you are quoting only applies to the apps that run continuously in the background when using certain background APIs introduced in iOS 4 (music, VOIP, etc.)

Nope.

Dead easy to test this too.

Tweetbot uses background app refresh, and refreshes its content indefinately, while in the background.

BUT ONLY IF it is in the recently used list.

'Fully close' it and it stops updating.

Apple are quite clear about this in their documentation too, not sure why you are confused.

http://support.apple.com/kb/ht4211

When Background App Refresh is on,....etc etc..... -> If you force an app to quit by dragging it up from the multitasking display, it won't be able to do its background activities, such as tracking location or responding to VoIP calls, until you relaunch the app.<-

 

[BaldiMac]

Nope.

Dead easy to test this too.

Tweetbot uses background app refresh, and refreshes its content indefinately, while in the background.

BUT ONLY IF it is in the recently used list.

'Fully close' it and it stops updating.

Apple are quite clear about this in their documentation too, not sure why you are confused.

http://support.apple.com/kb/ht4211

When Background App Refresh is on,....etc etc..... -> If you force an app to quit by dragging it up from the multitasking display, it won't be able to do its background activities, such as tracking location or responding to VoIP calls, until you relaunch the app.<-

That's not true. Go ahead and test your Tweetbot scenario. Background Refresh with the Gmail app was already confirmed by another poster.

But to avoid having the same conversation again, please start reading at the post you quoted and continue the rest of the thread.

 

[jabingla2810]

That's not true. Go ahead and test your Tweetbot scenario. Background Refresh with the Gmail app was already confirmed by another poster.

But to avoid having the same conversation again, please start reading at the post you quoted and continue the rest of the thread.

Tested before I even brought it up, and just tested again.

Tweetbot does not update in the background if it's not in the recently used apps list.

Neither does the Apple Podcasts app, neither does Facebook, neither does Alien Blue, neither does Instapaper.

I don't have WiFi at work, so when I take my iPod home with me over night, I have to make sure the Podcasts app is a recently used app, so my podcasts are upto date each morning. If it's not recently used, the podcast app doesn't update.

 

[Wolfpup]

http://support.apple.com/kb/ht4211

When Background App Refresh is on,....etc etc..... -> If you force an app to quit by dragging it up from the multitasking display, it won't be able to do its background activities, such as tracking location or responding to VoIP calls, until you relaunch the app.<-

Thanks so much for that link! I've been wondering for months how this all works, and that's actually fairly explicit.

Wonder if iOS is smart enough to not fire up an app to update it if the app is set to not use a cell network, and you don't currently have wifi.

 

[BaldiMac]

Tested before I even brought it up, and just tested again.

Tweetbot does not update in the background if it's not in the recently used apps list.

Neither does the Apple Podcasts app, neither does Facebook, neither does Alien Blue, neither does Instapaper.

None of that is true.

If you think you tested Tweetbot in the last 30 minutes, than you simply do not understand how Background Refresh works.

Background Refresh can be triggered three ways.

1) Notifications
2) Locations
3) Intelligent scheduling

Tweetbot, as far as I can tell, only uses intelligent scheduling. It only refreshes at times determined by the OS based on your frequency of use, wifi, and battery status.

I don't have WiFi at work, so when I take my iPod home with me over night, I have to make sure the Podcasts app is a recently used app, so my podcasts are upto date each morning. If it's not recently used, the podcast app doesn't update.

Nope.

 

[Max(IT)]

I think what he is trying to say is that for Dropbox, for example, background refresh can be used for some actions, but not for others. In the case of uploading something background refresh wouldn't apply, which is why you see what you describe, but in the case of perhaps you uploading a file through your computer to your Dropbox account then perhaps background refresh can be used for the action of the Dropbox app finding out about that upload and syncing its file listing and information to reflect that so that you would see it the next time you open the app.

Based on what ??? There is not evidence of such behavior ... Quite the contrary. Mail apps aside, any other app doesn't seem to work if closed

----------

That's not true. Go ahead and test your Tweetbot scenario. Background Refresh with the Gmail app was already confirmed by another poster.

But to avoid having the same conversation again, please start reading at the post you quoted and continue the rest of the thread.

Not true because you said so ?
ONLY Gmail and other mail based app could refresh even if closed thanks to push notification ....

----------

Tested before I even brought it up, and just tested again.

Tweetbot does not update in the background if it's not in the recently used apps list.

Neither does the Apple Podcasts app, neither does Facebook, neither does Alien Blue, neither does Instapaper.

I don't have WiFi at work, so when I take my iPod home with me over night, I have to make sure the Podcasts app is a recently used app, so my podcasts are upto date each morning. If it's not recently used, the podcast app doesn't update.

Absolutely agree with you ... Tested with Podcast and Facebook: they both support background app refresh but ONLY WORKS if in background.

----------

None of that is true.

If you think you tested Tweetbot in the last 30 minutes, than you simply do not understand how Background Refresh works.

Background Refresh can be triggered three ways.

1) Notifications
2) Locations
3) Intelligent scheduling

Tweetbot, as far as I can tell, only uses intelligent scheduling. It only refreshes at times determined by the OS based on your frequency of use, wifi, and battery status.



Nope.

You keep say "nope" at things that every other user are experiencing ...

 

[jabingla2810]

None of that is true.

If you think you tested Tweetbot in the last 30 minutes, than you simply do not understand how Background Refresh works.

Background Refresh can be triggered three ways.

1) Notifications
2) Locations
3) Intelligent scheduling

Tweetbot, as far as I can tell, only uses intelligent scheduling. It only refreshes at times determined by the OS based on your frequency of use, wifi, and battery status.

Nope.

*sigh*

Let's just agree to disagree.

 

[BaldiMac]

*sigh*

Let's just agree to disagree.

https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/releasenotes/General/WhatsNewIniOS/Articles/iOS7.html

"Apps supporting either the fetch or remote-notification background modes may be launched or moved from the suspended to background state at appropriate times."

Emphasis mine.

 

[jabingla2810]

https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/releasenotes/General/WhatsNewIniOS/Articles/iOS7.html

"Apps supporting either the fetch or remote-notification background modes may be launched or moved from the suspended to background state at appropriate times."

Emphasis mine.

That statement agrees with me.

This is getting ridiculous now, are you trying to wind me up?

I'm talking from experience here, all the apps that I use, that are background enabled, DO NOT update when they are not in the recently used apps list. (Suspended in the background, if you will)

Look, if what you are saying is true, why is Instapaper on my iPad 3 weeks out of date, but upto date everywhere else?

Why has my Podcast app on my iPod not been updated since Friday?

Ill tell you why, it's because they aren't in my recently used apps list. There isn't room for argument here, I'm telling you how it works.

Now I give you push notifications, maybe, because I can't prove that one way or another, maybe they do trigger it... I'll give the gmail app a go now and report back.... To be continued.

 

[BaldiMac]

That statement agrees with me.

No, it doesn't. Nowhere does it say that apps have to be in the recently used list. In fact, there is no "in the recently used list" app state.

I'm talking from experience here, all the apps that I use, that are background enabled, DO NOT update when they are not in the recently used apps list. (Suspended in the background, if you will)

That may be how you perceive your experience. Doesn't change the fact that Background Refresh does not require an app to be in the recently used list or even suspended in memory.

Look, if what you are saying is true, why is Instapaper on my iPad 3 weeks out of date, but upto date everywhere else?

Just guessing, but maybe because you don't regularly open it on your iPad. One of the things that intelligent scheduling takes into account is how when and how often you open the app. Or maybe Betaworks implemented it poorly.

Ill tell you why, it's because they aren't in my recently used apps list. There isn't room for argument here, I'm telling you how it works.

Personal anecdote doesn't qualify as facts.

Now I give you push notifications, maybe, because I can't prove that one way or another, maybe they do trigger it... I'll give the gmail app a go now and report back.... To be continued.

So, developer documentation isn't enough?

More detail:
https://developer.apple.com/library....html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40007072-CH4-SW20

Fetching Small Amounts of Content Regularly

In iOS 7 and later, an app that retrieves content regularly from the network can ask the system for background execution time to check for new content. You enable support for background fetches from the Background modes section of the Capabilities tab in your Xcode project. (You can also enable this support by including the UIBackgroundModes key with the fetch value in your app’s Info.plist file.) At appropriate times, the system gives background execution time to the apps that support this background mode, launching the app directly into the background if needed. The app object calls the applicationerformFetchWithCompletionHandler: method of its app delegate to let you know when execution time is available.

When the applicationerformFetchWithCompletionHandler: method of your delegate is called, use that method to check for new content and to download that content if it is available. When your downloads are complete, execute the provided completion handler block, passing a result that indicates whether content was available. Executing this block tells the system that it can move your app back to the suspended state and evaluate its power usage. Apps that download small amounts of content quickly and accurately reflect when they had content to download are more likely to receive execution time in the future than apps that take longer to download their content.

When downloading any content, it is recommended that you use the NSURLSession class to initiate and manage your downloads. For information about how to use this class to manage upload and download tasks, see URL Loading System Programming Guide

Emphasis mine.