General Does being able to JB an iPhone hurt android?

[jrswizzle]

Ok again estimate. Also does the Q4 sales not include launch weekend sales?

Funny you missed the last half of my post.

THEY. ARE. ALL. ESTIMATES.

I say this also in the post you didn't read....Samsung NEVER announces sales, so anything related to numbers sold is an estimate. Apple only reports TOTAL iPhone sales, hence the estimates of iPhone 5 specifically.

And no, September is not part of Q4 (Oct. Nov. Dec.). Keep in mind this is normal Q4 - Apple's fiscal year begins in Oct, meaning for them Q4 2012 is actually Q1 2013.....

Meaning their Q1 2013 earnings call announced sales for everyone else's Q4 2012.

And I read your entire post....I just chose not waste my time responding to it.

 

[bmac4]

THEY. ARE. ALL. ESTIMATES.

I say this also in the post you didn't read....Samsung NEVER announces sales, so anything related to numbers sold is an estimate. Apple only reports TOTAL iPhone sales, hence the estimates of iPhone 5 specifically.

And no, September is not part of Q4 (Oct. Nov. Dec.). Keep in mind this is normal Q4 - Apple's fiscal year begins in Oct, meaning for them Q4 2012 is actually Q1 2013.....

Meaning their Q1 2013 earnings call announced sales for everyone else's Q4 2012.

And I read your entire post....I just chose not waste my time responding to it.

Of course you don't. I made a point that you could not negate and you "chose" not to respond. Classic.

Nice to see another Apple fan running away when they can't defend something.

Lets see after March you are still talking about quarter sales numbers. Oh wait Samsung does not release numbers so we don't know what they sell, so you will keep screaming about Q4 of 2012.

 

[jrswizzle]

Of course you don't. I made a point that you could not negate and you "chose" not to respond. Classic.

Nice to see another Apple fan running away when they can't defend something.

Lol - your point that analysts ALWAYS overestimate and Apple ALWAYS underestimates and somehow this means that the iPhone 5 should have sold 10 million in one weekend and 30-40 million in the quarter?

Let me give you a tip - never throw in with the analysts - 10 times out of 10 they are wrong - doesn't make you look very good....

If I'm an analyst and I say "Apple will sell 16 million iPhone 5's during launch weekend" (which if we were basing off of previous increases should have been the number) and Apple sells out at 5 million - this is a failure? Apple is doomed?

Or - was it simply they made as many as they could in the time-frame they had (between the end of device testing to the sell date) and sold all of them within 72 hours.....and were backed up for over a month.....and went on to sell more iPhone 5's in Q4 than any other phone in the world.

No, but you're right. Those analysts predicted higher numbers (which were higher than any maker had ever sold by a mile) so Apple is doomed because they didn't hit those numbers......

If this is your argument. I'm done - you're misguided and delusional.....

Next year Samsung will sell 70 million Galaxy SIV's. (See I can make wild predictions too....)

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Lets see after March you are still talking about quarter sales numbers. Oh wait Samsung does not release numbers so we don't know what they sell, so you will keep screaming about Q4 of 2012.

They don't - so we'll use the estimates and compare.....which is what I've been doing....

 

[bmac4]

Lol - your point that analysts ALWAYS overestimate and Apple ALWAYS underestimates and somehow this means that the iPhone 5 should have sold 10 million in one weekend and 30-40 million in the quarter?

Let me give you a tip - never throw in with the analysts - 10 times out of 10 they are wrong - doesn't make you look very good....

If I'm an analyst and I say "Apple will sell 16 million iPhone 5's during launch weekend" (which if we were basing off of previous increases should have been the number) and Apple sells out at 5 million - this is a failure? Apple is doomed?

Or - was it simply they made as many as they could in the time-frame they had (between the end of device testing to the sell date) and sold all of them within 72 hours.....and were backed up for over a month.....and went on to sell more iPhone 5's in Q4 than any other phone in the world.

No, but you're right. Those analysts predicted higher numbers (which were higher than any maker had ever sold by a mile) so Apple is doomed because they didn't hit those numbers......

If this is your argument. I'm done - you're misguided and delusional.....

Next year Samsung will sell 70 million Galaxy SIV's. (See I can make wild predictions too....)

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They don't - so we'll use the estimates and compare.....which is what I've been doing....

Are you joking me? So everything the stock prices are based off of are wrong because Apple projections were too high? Really that is your argument? That is all the stock market has been running for years and now it is wrong. APPLES SHARE PRICE WENT DOWN there is a reason for that.

 

[jrswizzle]

Are you joking me? So everything the stock prices are based off of are wrong because Apple projections were too high? Really that is your argument? That is all the stock market has been running for years and now it is wrong. APPLES SHARE PRICE WENT DOWN there is a reason for that.

The stock market is a mess - just look at how one "rumor" about Apple splitting the stock price caused it to bump up $8 in a day....

The market can be manipulated extremely easily....

All I'm saying regarding Apple's stock price is this: it doesn't mean Apple is in decline. Sales figures and revenue are a more accurate measure of a company's health - and both were record highs for Apple this past year.

Case-in-point: Amazon LOSES money last quarter and their stock price goes up....

 

[bmac4]

The stock market is a mess - just look at how one "rumor" about Apple splitting the stock price caused it to bump up $8 in a day....

The market can be manipulated extremely easily....

All I'm saying regarding Apple's stock price is this: it doesn't mean Apple is in decline. Sales figures and revenue are a more accurate measure of a company's health - and both were records for Apple this past year.

Case-in-point: Amazon LOSES money last quarter and their stock price goes up....

Ok these stock number dropped after after Q4 lets see what they are in Q1 of 2013.

I am done if your argument is that the stock market is a mess and we can't go by that. People threw it out there when things were at an all time high for Apple last year. Now things are not so good so we can't trust the stock market. You really are unbelievable.

 

[jrswizzle]

Ok these stock number dropped after after Q4 lets see what they are in Q1 of 2013.

I am done if your argument is that the stock market is a mess and we can't go by that. People threw it out there when things were at an all time high for Apple last year. Now things are not so good so we can't trust the stock market. You really are unbelievable.

Lol I want to make sure I've gotten all this - please respond to each number:

(1) Apple's stock price has gone down a lot, hence they are doomed.

(2) Someone else used Apple's high stock price as a positive so I can't dismiss the lower stock price....even though I said nothing about the high stock price.

(3) Analyst driven stock prices are a better indicator of company health than record sales and revenue numbers.

(4) Apple sold as many iPhone 5's as they could make, and almost as many as the GS3 which came out 5 months prior (which I mentioned in a previous post) - yet it was a failure.

Let me know if I've missed anything.....hopefully seeing your comments all together will show you how nonsensical they are...

 

[bmac4]

Lol I want to make sure I've gotten all this - please respond to each number:

(1) Apple's stock price has gone down a lot, hence they are doomed.

(2) Someone else used Apple's high stock price as a positive so I can't dismiss the lower stock price....even though I said nothing about the high stock price.

(3) Analyst driven stock prices are a better indicator of company health than record sales and revenue numbers.

(4) Apple sold as many iPhone 5's as they could make, and almost as many as the GS3 which came out 5 months prior (which I mentioned in a previous post) - yet it was a failure.

Let me know if I've missed anything.....hopefully seeing your comments all together will show you how nonsensical they are...

1. Apples stocks dropped beginning of 2013 after the demand for the iphone 5 had gone down. I am pretty sure you can go into most places and buy an iphone 5 now. I am saying stock prices going down means The demand for the iphone 5 is not as high as projected.

2. Yes lots of people were claiming last year stock prices were at an all time high for Apple and that meant good things.

3. No. I am saying that in 2013 the only thing we have to go on is the stock prices at his point and shares are going down so that most of time is not good thing.

4. I never once said the iphone 5 was a failure. How do you know that Apple sold any many iphone 5s as they could make? That is all speculation.


Oh and I forgot since numbers are being thrown out to fit arguments here is mine. Market share: right now it is something like 60% android 20% iOS.

 

[jrswizzle]

1. Apples stocks dropped beginning of 2013 after the demand for the iphone 5 had gone down. I am pretty sure you can go into most places and buy an iphone 5 now. I am saying stock prices going down means The demand for the iphone 5 is not as high as projected.

Apple's stock dropped after Apple's earnings call because analysts predicted ridiculous numbers that Apple didn't quite hit - even though all the numbers they DID announce were records for them. You could also go into any store and buy a GS3 4 months after it was released....I don't get how that has any bearing on anything - supplies were cut due to seasonality - spending after Christmas is very low due to people pay off those debts.....happens every year to all manufacturers.

2. Yes lots of people were claiming last year stock prices were at an all time high for Apple and that meant good things.

I never said anything of the sort. So why are you calling me "unbelievable" for what other people said?

3. No. I am saying that in 2013 the only thing we have to go on is the stock prices at his point and shares are going down so that most of time is not good thing.

See answer to (1).

4. I never once said the iphone 5 was a failure. How do you know that Apple sold any many iphone 5s as they could make? That is all speculation.

You've insinuated as much.

Why would Apple purposefully hold back making iPhone 5's? They made as many as they could as sold all of them in one weekend - then they continued to be behind the demand for months. Now that we've come out of the holiday season, the constraints are extremely relaxed. Again - 4 months after the GS3 release, one could go into a store and buy it....

 

[bmac4]

Apple's stock dropped after Apple's earnings call because analysts predicted ridiculous numbers that Apple didn't quite hit - even though all the numbers they DID announce were records for them. You could also go into any store and buy a GS3 4 months after it was released....I don't get how that has any bearing on anything - supplies were cut due to seasonality - spending after Christmas is very low due to people pay off those debts.....happens every year to all manufacturers.



I never said anything of the sort. So why are you calling me "unbelievable" for what other people said?



See answer to (1).



You've insinuated as much.

Why would Apple purposefully hold back making iPhone 5's? They made as many as they could as sold all of them in one weekend - then they continued to be behind the demand for months. Now that we've come out of the holiday season, the constraints are extremely relaxed. Again - 4 months after the GS3 release, one could go into a store and buy it....

Sure someone could come and buy an S3 months after it release. What I am saying is yes Apple sold as many as they made in the first weekend, but demand is not as high as has been before. Things have cooled off a lot since Christmas.

The problem with you sales numbers for phone vs. phone is iphone is the only phone Apple makes. The S3 is one of hundreds that android has to offer. So again I will point you to market share or its there something wrong with that as well? Only having one phone can be a blessing and curse for Apple. If someone want an iOS device the decision is made, but if someone wants something a bit different there is no other option, but iphone. The market does not lie. Or for me it doesn't.

 

[zbarvian]

I was planning on buying the next Nexus device before I jailbroke. Obviously I'm still going to have to wait and see Android 5.0 and the Nexus hardware before I make any decisions, but I definitely feel less compelled to leave iOS after jail breaking. In fact, I feel more inclined to stay with iOS. All of the positives of iOS and the added functionality/customization of the tweaks and themes really make it the best platform experience, in my opinion. That being said, I'm still yearning for a bigger screen, and I'm more interested in what Google is doing in Android than what Apple is doing in iOS.

 

[jrswizzle]

Sure someone could come and buy an S3 months after it release. What I am saying is yes Apple sold as many as they made in the first weekend, but demand is not as high as has been before. Things have cooled off a lot since Christmas.

The problem with you sales numbers for phone vs. phone is iphone is the only phone Apple makes. The S3 is one of hundreds that android has to offer. So again I will point you to market share or its there something wrong with that as well? Only having one phone can be a blessing and curse for Apple. If someone want an iOS device the decision is made, but if someone wants something a bit different there is no other option, but iphone. The market does not lie. Or for me it doesn't.

Lol....

Things have cooled off for everyone since Christmas...they always do. This isn't a new trend....

Android and iOS will constantly go back and forth. Last month iOS was on top in the US, this month its Android, and on and on.....its nothing new. Generally these fluctuations coincide with large releases - for instance, Android should see a HUGE boost in the coming months with all the flagship handsets hitting the market - the Xperia Z, HTC One, Galaxy SIV etc....

What happens is tons of people buy these Android phones at the beginning of the year for a number of reasons (1) they're bored with iOS, (2) they are eligible for an upgrade, (3) carriers are pushing Android handsets more, (4) lots of times they are cheaper or there's a special (2-for-1 sort of deal).

Android sees a big marketshare increase right off the bat - however, Apple doesn't go away......

Many statistics show Android has a lower customer retention rate than iOS - some of those who bought that shiny new Android decide they don't like it and either go back to iOS or buy an iPhone.....these people keep iOS floating in marketshare, but they still lose ground - hence they are doomed....until....

The iPhone "X" gets released in the fall and all of the sudden: "iPhone is world's best selling smartphone", "iOS gains top spot in marketshare in US" and yada yada yada....

This cycle happens every year - and will likely continue for a little while. However, it's not a sustainable model for Apple - they'll either need to offer more frequent updates or offer additional models (which I am all for).

That being said - even though this cycle happens every year, Apple still managed to grab a top spot in US marketshare for Q4 for the first time since 2008. Apple has rarely led in marketshare and routinely sees ebbs and flows, just as Android does, due to off-set flagship releases - so the fact they don't lead in marketshare, or have tailed off isn't really anything to be concerned about - especially when it happens every year.....

We have no idea what Apple will bring to the table with the 5S, 6 or iOS 7. Until Apple puts out a crap product (and I mean a really terrible product, not just "useless" to the tech forum-goers), I'll continue to wait to see what they have to offer as opposed to assuming they'll tank.....

 

[bmac4]

Lol....

Things have cooled off for everyone since Christmas...they always do. This isn't a new trend....

Android and iOS will constantly go back and forth. Last month iOS was on top in the US, this month its Android, and on and on.....its nothing new. Generally these fluctuations coincide with large releases - for instance, Android should see a HUGE boost in the coming months with all the flagship handsets hitting the market - the Xperia Z, HTC One, Galaxy SIV etc....

What happens is tons of people buy these Android phones at the beginning of the year for a number of reasons (1) they're bored with iOS, (2) they are eligible for an upgrade, (3) carriers are pushing Android handsets more, (4) lots of times they are cheaper or there's a special (2-for-1 sort of deal).

Android sees a big marketshare increase right off the bat - however, Apple doesn't go away......

Many statistics show Android has a lower customer retention rate than iOS - some of those who bought that shiny new Android decide they don't like it and either go back to iOS or buy an iPhone.....these people keep iOS floating in marketshare, but they still lose ground - hence they are doomed....until....

The iPhone "X" gets released in the fall and all of the sudden: "iPhone is world's best selling smartphone", "iOS gains top spot in marketshare in US" and yada yada yada....

This cycle happens every year - and will likely continue for a little while. However, it's not a sustainable model for Apple - they'll either need to offer more frequent updates or offer additional models (which I am all for).

That being said - even though this cycle happens every year, Apple still managed to grab a top spot in US marketshare for Q4 for the first time since 2008. Apple has rarely led in marketshare and routinely sees ebbs and flows, just as Android does, due to off-set flagship releases - so the fact they don't lead in marketshare, or have tailed off isn't really anything to be concerned about - especially when it happens every year.....

We have no idea what Apple will bring to the table with the 5S, 6 or iOS 7. Until Apple puts out a crap product (and I mean a really terrible product, not just "useless" to the tech forum-goers), I'll continue to wait to see what they have to offer as opposed to assuming they'll tank.....

I did not say they will tank. I said this is going to be there lowest launch sales in a long time. Sure Apple can win Quarters in market share, but they will never be a top in market share for the year. They don't bring enough products to the table. Plus they are not evolving like android is.

 

[jrswizzle]

I did not say they will tank. I said this is going to be there lowest launch sales in a long time. Sure Apple can win Quarters in market share, but they will never be a top in market share for the year. They don't bring enough products to the table. Plus they are not evolving like android is.

Bolded = exactly right. Hence why I think Apple WILL and SHOULD bring the bigger iPhone and cheaper iPhone to the market this year/next.

The top market-share spot isn't Apple's goal.....if you followed Apple when Jobs was there, you'd know that. They will add the two new iPhones to open up a larger portion of the world so they can make more money. Plain and simple. Despite the fact a cheaper iPhone will have lower margins, Apple can still make it a premium product in the lower-end field and make a killing due to the enormity of the Chinese and Indian markets who could jump on it.

And I still see no reason to assume their launch sales will tank....but I invite you to bookmark this page and my comment so that if Apple's iPhone sales are worse this year than last year, you can say "I told you so."

The evolution of each OS is pretty subjective.....I'm having a terrible time with my Nexus 4 at the moment reigning in some rogue (stock) apps draining my battery.....also having trouble with my GPS working and my data connection....

Then there's my iPhone 5.....plugging along as usual.

 

[bmac4]

Bolded = exactly right. Hence why I think Apple WILL and SHOULD bring the bigger iPhone and cheaper iPhone to the market this year/next.

The top market-share spot isn't Apple's goal.....if you followed Apple when Jobs was there, you'd know that. They will add the two new iPhones to open up a larger portion of the world so they can make more money. Plain and simple. Despite the fact a cheaper iPhone will have lower margins, Apple can still make it a premium product in the lower-end field and make a killing due to the enormity of the Chinese and Indian markets who could jump on it.

And I still see no reason to assume their launch sales will tank....but I invite you to bookmark this page and my comment so that if Apple's iPhone sales are worse this year than last year, you can say "I told you so."

The evolution of each OS is pretty subjective.....I'm having a terrible time with my Nexus 4 at the moment reigning in some rogue (stock) apps draining my battery.....also having trouble with my GPS working and my data connection....

Then there's my iPhone 5.....plugging along as usual.

Yea I guess the evolution thing is subjective, but I still think android growing faster than Apple at this point. Now I will say that Apple has grown so much over the last 6 years that maybe they don't need to. But if we look at it like something on twitter (yes I know this is a dumb thing to say) that is treading. I think that is android right now.

I would go the other way and say I can't figure out why my battery on my iphone 5 is so crappy. I barely make it through a day. I never had that problem on my nexus devices. Right now I am at 38% battery after being off the charger since 7:30 am. I thought the iphone was suppose to have far better battery life than android. I am not seeing it.

 

[jrswizzle]

Yea I guess the evolution thing is subjective, but I still think android growing faster than Apple at this point. Now I will say that Apple has grown so much over the last 6 years that maybe they don't need to. But if we look at it like something on twitter (yes I know this is a dumb thing to say) that is treading. I think that is android right now.

I would go the other way and say I can't figure out why my battery on my iphone 5 is so crappy. I barely make it through a day. I never had that problem on my nexus devices. Right now I am at 38% battery after being off the charger since 7:30 am. I thought the iphone was suppose to have far better battery life than android. I am not seeing it.

Wow - my iPhone 5 absolutely destroys my Nexus as far as battery goes....granted I don't use my phones that much but I can generally get up to 2 days standby and 8 hours use on my iP5....I'm having trouble getting 8 hours at all on my Nexus because of some apps draining my battery while I'm not using it....think I have it nailed down though - we shall see.

 

[bmac4]

Wow - my iPhone 5 absolutely destroys my Nexus as far as battery goes....granted I don't use my phones that much but I can generally get up to 2 days standby and 8 hours use on my iP5....I'm having trouble getting 8 hours at all on my Nexus because of some apps draining my battery while I'm not using it....think I have it nailed down though - we shall see.

Yep. That is what everyone says is iPhones blow the doors off the android battery, but I have not found that true. The jailbreak has only lost me about an 30 of usage on my iphone, so I would not say it was that. I think my Gnex was just as good as the iphone 5 on battery. I am not sure about the nexus 4 cause I have not gotten my hands on one yet.

I just think android is growing a lot right now, and maybe I will be surprised late this year with the new iphone, or maybe you will. You can call me out if you want if you are right. I don't hate Apple so if they do give us something awesome then I am game, but if it is just another iphone 5s with nothing really changed in iOS 7 then I will be disappointed along with a lot other people, and this might be my last try with iOS.