Carrier Does millimeter wave 5G actually work for anybody?

[Ram65]

Verizon will be the 5G leader very soon

 

[profcutter]

I use 5G all day long here in Seattle and don't see it burning battery at all. I'll take my own anecdotal evidence over WSJ and YouTubers any day of the week. Good for me.

Right exactly. I don’t know where their snarky response came from, the title was does it work for anybody. Answer: yes, for some of us.

 

[sparksd]

Right exactly. I don’t know where their snarky response came from, the title was does it work for anybody. Answer: yes, for some of us.

If 5G is spotty in an area, I would expect higher battery usage as the phone is searching and switching between 5G and 4G. I get great 5G T-Mobile coverage around town here in Seattle.

 

[AlixSPQR]

I use 5G all day long here in Seattle and don't see it burning battery at all. I'll take my own anecdotal evidence over WSJ and YouTubers any day of the week. Good for me.

Which 5G Mode in Settings do you use?

 

[sparksd]

Which 5G Mode in Settings do you use?

5G On, Allow More Data on 5G.

 

[AlixSPQR]

5G On, Allow More Data on 5G.

I congratulate you.

 

[sparksd]

I congratulate you.

I think it really makes a difference if you are in a well-covered area and your phone isn't searching a lot - the same problem with any band in a sparsely-covered area. It's T-Mobile UC here with very good coverage and I usually see around 700Mbps download speeds - the phone is faster in my house on 5G than on WiFi.

 

[ValerieDurden]

Verizon will be the 5G leader very soon

Yeah I don’t see that happening, T-Mobile is way ahead.

 

[sparksd]

I congratulate you.

How is 5G rollout going in Sweden?

 

[tdar]

Verizon will be the 5G leader very soon

Yes!! And I ❤️ that for two reasons. First they are my carrier, and second,we can be done forever with the hideous T-Mobile commercials!

 

[SalisburySam]

Forgive the dumb question please, but where do you turn on/off these various service settings like 5G? New iPhone 13mini and I see nothing in Settings that mentions this. AT&T, typically have 1 bar, infrequently more, locally. LTE is showing at top of screen.

UPDATE: never mind…found it finally.

 

[ValerieDurden]

Verizon will be the 5G leader very soon

Yes!! And I ❤️ that for two reasons. First they are my carrier, and second,we can be done forever with the hideous T-Mobile commercials!

https://www.whistleout.com/CellPhones/Guides/5g-coverage-maps-compared

 

[AlixSPQR]

How is 5G rollout going in Sweden?

Slowly, it is mostly available in larger cities and alongside major roads. The largest carrier Telia says that 90 percent of our population will have 5G-access at the end of 2023. Maybe only a sales pitch.

 

[zach-coleman]

Update: Possibly a placebo but I went and got my SIM card changed and there seems to have been a slight increase in functionality. When I first got this phone there was a very complex run around with the SIM so it’s not impossible it got activated incorrectly in some way. We shall see if I continue feeling like this in the long run.

 

[mlody]

I haven’t had any issues with mmWave on AT&T or Verizon with a 13 Pro. Anecdotally, I’ve found the download speeds for AT&T’s 5G+ network and Verizon’s UWB network to be fairly similar (between 400-600 Mbps) though Verizon has much more mmWave coverage than AT&T for now. I’ve seen reports of people getting download speeds approaching 2 Gbps on Verizon’s UWB network, but I have yet to see anything like that.

Typically, 400-600 Mbps are not mmWave speeds, they are band-C speeds. mmWave speeds are 1 Gbps to 4 Gbps on Verizon. What sucks with Verizon now is that they don't distinguish between band-C and mmWave and anytime you get either you will see 5G UC on the phone.

 

[sonic1000]

Here's my 5G speeds from my bedroom on T-Mobile(iPhone 12). Funny enough it's faster than my Spectrum internet's Wi-Fi.

 

[Hele]

As I'm reading this thread, I'm seeing a few misconceptions about the 5G spectrum, technologies and the carrier-specific status bar icons in the US, so I'll try my best to try to explain what's going on with 5G in the US right now.

From what I have seen, the most confusing thing for consumers about 5G is the two frequency ranges (FR) it currently employs.

Unlike LTE (4G) and 3G, 5G NR has two ranges of frequencies it can use.

FR1 is officially defined as bands 600MHz (0.6GHz) - 6700MHz (6.7GHz)
This frequency range is often referred to as "Sub-6 5G"
Many of the FR1 frequencies have already been in use for LTE worldwide before 5G was ever finalized

FR2 is officially defined as bands 24500MHz (24.5GHz) - 71000MHz (71GHz)
This is what gets called "mmWave 5G"
mmWave gets a lot of bad press for its poor ability to penetrate buildings, foliage and other obstacles, while also requiring extra antenna hardware (the pill-shaped cutout on every 5G iPhone, except the SE 3). A lot of news outlets have posted stories about how 5G only reaches "a few hundred feet" from the site.
This is true in certain circumstances, but it entirely ignores the existence of 5G on the FR1 spectrum, which when compared to LTE on the same frequencies often actually has better range than LTE. This can happen because it can use technologies like Massive Multiple Input Multiple Output (Massive MIMO, mMIMO), beamforming (beamsteering, spatial filtering). Note that these are optional features of the specification, so not all carriers deploy all of them. More about 5G frequencies can be found in this Wikipedia article.

Frequency is not the only factor when it comes to speed and range, other factors include transmission power, interference, and the size of the frequency band (bandwidth).
The easiest way to visualize this is the frequency being the speed limit, and bandwidth the number of lanes. Higher speed limit + more lanes = more capacity. The issue with FR1 is that there is not a lot of spectrum available for carriers to license, and when some spectrum frees up in FR1, it is usually expensive to license at high bandwidths. This is a problem for extremely crowded areas (stadiums, busy streets, intersections, venues, malls…), suddenly, there are many people using data in one area, and the serving cell sites start running out of capacity.
This is where FR2 comes in because it is extremely underutilized because of its limited penetration capability, meaning a LOT of it can be licensed extremely cheaply for the capacity it provides. The limited range of FR2 becomes less of an issue when the carrier only tries to cover a small, densely packed area.

An even greater source of confusion about mmWave 5G has been the carrier-specific 5G icons in the US:

AT&T:

5Ge - Not 5G, this is AT&T's way of trying to deceive and confuse customers about what 5G is. 5Ge is just LTE with a few extra modern, fairly standard technologies deployed (256QAM,4×4 MIMO, 3CA). Most LTE-only phones from 2018 onward support these technologies, and will display the 5Ge icon when connected to these new technologies.

5G - This is actual 5G, you need a 5G phone to use this network. This status bar icon means your phone is connected to a 5G network using a technology called DSS (Dynamic Spectrum Sharing). This technology allocates a part of an LTE band to 5G as needed. It typically only carrier a maximum of ~15% speed increase. Because it rarely requires a change of hardware deployed on the tower sites, it is an economical way of bringing mild speed improvement to many sites with almost no upfront cost.

5G+ - This in most cases means your phone is connected to AT&T's 5G C-Band frequency. C-Band (3.7GHz is a part of FR1), and has started wide deployment at the end of Q1 2022. Only a part of the C-Band spectrum has been cleared so far (previously used for satellite TV, which is now relocating transmission onto new frequencies). AT&T currently has access to only 40MHz of this spectrum, this is the early clearing spectrum they can use before satellite TV completes its relocation, which currently scheduled to be finished in late December 2023. It is notable that they also purchased C-Band spectrum which is not supported on all 5G devices that support C-Band, and only 2022 and newer phones will be able to connect to it. This part of their C-Band spectrum has been referred to as "DoD" and operates at around 3.45Ghz.

This icon is also used for AT&T's mmWave network, which is currently limited to parts of major airports, venues, and areas surrounding the venues, but I have seen some rare exceptions to this.

Their C-Band has been able to do 600Mbps down, and 60Mbps up in good conditions.

They currently use 40MHz of 3700MHz for their 5G+ C-Band service, with 40MHz of their 3450MHz of C-Band in certain locations. When the C-Band spectrum fully clears in December 2023, they will have up to 180MHz between 3.45GHz and 3.7GHz.

T-Mobile:

5G - T-Mobile uses 600MHz low-band spectrum on pretty much every one of their sites, and has recently started using 1900MHz freed up by the 3G shutdown for 5G as well. Both of these frequencies have commonly been used for LTE before all around the world.

5G UC - This means your phone is connected to their "5G Ultra Capacity." This almost exclusively consists of 2500MHz spectrum they got from buying up Sprint. They got this spectrum a lot earlier than the AT&T and Verizon (about a year and something), so they have had the opportunity to deploy a lot of it in many places. It is common to see T-Mobile with 140MHz and more of this spectrum deployed. While the frequency of this spectrum is lower than C-Band (3700MHz), it has often been recorded not reaching as far as C-Band. This is because the transmitters on this frequency are not allowed power levels as high as for C-Band. T-Mobile has also not been using mMIMO too frequently for 2500MHz, which tends to impair the band's indoor performance significantly.
T-Mobile has been publicly criticizing the mmWave spectrum, and the carriers who deploy it, but they are currently running trials of mmWave in New York and Las Vegas.

T-Mobile uses 600MHz and 1900Mhz for their 5G, and up to 190MHz wide 2500MHz for their 5G UC, and are conducting limited experiments with 400MHz wide mmWave. It is important to note that the bandwidth of their 2.5GHz deployment will vary wildly because of the way the 2.5GHz band is licensed.

Verizon:

5G - This signals a connection to Verizon's DSS 5G network (DSS tech explained under AT&T 5G). It has been performing about the same to ~15% faster than their LTE.

5G UW - This signals a connection to Verizon's "5G Ultra Wideband" network. This includes their C-Band spectrum, which they currently deploy at 60MHz bandwidth in the early clearing markets, as well as some deployment at 100MHz in non-early clearing markets (this is possible because they made a deal with the satellite TV providers to clear their spectrum faster).
Verizon's C-Band 5G usually reaches around 200 - 400Mbps (40Mbps up), up to 1000Mbps in dense areas with good fiber (120Mbps up), and have been able to do as much as 1400Mbps (150Mbps up) in their 100MHz deployments.

They have famously deployed the by far largest and most extensive mmWave 5G network in the world, a connection to this network also shows as 5G UW. They have also deployed 800MHz of mmWave on all their mmWave sites (as opposed to AT&T and T-Mobile typically only going with 400MHz). They have the most experience of all US carriers with mmWave, and their mmWave network has been performing the best /MHz of all the US carriers. They are also deploying software updates to their mmWave radios that allow for faster mmWave uploads.
Their mmWave will easily reach 1500Mbps down, and up to 4000Mbps down at good signal strengths. With the recent software updates to their radios, their mmWave managed 400Mbps upload at good signal strengths.

Verizon uses 60 or 100MHz wide 3700MHz C-Band for their 5g UW service, and will use 140-200MHz wide 3700MHz C-Band service when all the spectrum clears in December 2023. They also use 800MHz wide 28GHz or 39GHz mmWave in certain locations. They use current LTE spectrum for their regular 5G.


So, to close this essay-length post, 5G+ (or 5G UW, 5G UC) does not mean your phone is connected to 5G mmWave, and it is not anyone's fault for thinking that, as it's what Apple and the carriers have been pretty unclear about. Maybe Apple should have added a "5G mm" icon to signal mmWave connection, while I support this decision, I don't think they will ever do that because as far as they know, their average customer does not care.

The speed of 5G, whether it be C-Band, 2500Mhz or mmWave will vary wildly based on things like technologies deployed, bandwidth, signal strength, cellular plan, phone software and weather. As 5G continues to mature, we will be able to take advantage of technologies like carrier aggregation (using multiple frequencies at once to speed up transmission), Massive MIMO, and the fiber backhaul the tower connects to. iPhones have widely shown that optimization is critical to mmWave performance, but that doesn't mean it can't perform suboptimally, and the same goes for C-Band 5G+, which is most likely what the OP is connected to for the Speedtest. It is important to remember that mmWave will never be deployed nearly everywhere, as its purpose is to make sure you can make a call inside a packed area.

I do not work in cellular networking, but I tried to make sure that all the info I presented is as accurate as possible, please let me know if you believe I made a mistake in explaining anything or got something wrong.

TL;DR: 5G+ doesn't mean you are connected to mmWave, it most likely means you are connected to AT&T's 3.7GHz 5G network, and while C-Band 5G gives impressive performance even indoor, do not expect speeds comparable to home internet on cellular while hunkered down in your basement. It is also possible the site you are connected to is still getting optimized or getting its backhaul upgraded.

VZW fan here. I was on Sprint for twenty years, switched to Verizon and never looked back. I did my most recent iOS update to 16.2 while traveling around in VZW 5GUW environs. It was much faster than my home connection (Verizon FiOS 100mb download) only because I'm too cheap to pay for faster internet at home 😂. I have fast 5GUW at home, too, but I couldn't wait to get home to upgrade to 16.2 lol.

 

[macbookm1airlover]

No issues here. Will repeat what others have said...most likely a location issue. On Verizon 5Guw, I have seen it as slow as 5mbps in rural areas, or as high as 3.5k mbps

 

[zach-coleman]

VZW fan here. I was on Sprint for twenty years, switched to Verizon and never looked back. I did my most recent iOS update to 16.2 while traveling around in VZW 5GUW environs. It was much faster than my home connection (Verizon FiOS 100mb download) only because I'm too cheap to pay for faster internet at home 😂. I have fast 5GUW at home, too, but I couldn't wait to get home to upgrade to 16.2 lol.

When I eventually get off of my family's carrier plan I'm probably going to go to Verizon. Seems like they're pretty far ahead these days. They brought back unlimited data, right? I remember that drama from the mid 2010s.

 

[profcutter]

When I eventually get off of my family's carrier plan I'm probably going to go to Verizon. Seems like they're pretty far ahead these days. They brought back unlimited data, right? I remember that drama from the mid 2010s.

I gotta say after having VZW for a few months, I'm really not that impressed. Yes, if you're exactly in the right spot in a major city, you'll get impressive download speeds on 5g. But I've had so many dropped calls in rural areas, areas that were served fine with ATT. It seems that when my phone drops to LTE, it really doesn't know what to do, calls drop, SIRI can't operate at all, radio streams drop out. Maybe that's a problem with the iPhone 14 PM, but I never had that problem before on ATT. So if you travel a great deal, especially in rural areas, maybe think twice about Verizon. I love FIOS at home, it's the most reliable service we've ever had, but the wireless service leaves a great deal to be desired.

 

[Hele]

When I eventually get off of my family's carrier plan I'm probably going to go to Verizon. Seems like they're pretty far ahead these days. They brought back unlimited data, right? I remember that drama from the mid 2010s.

Yes, I’m on unlimited with VZW. I ended up refreshing my home FiOS as well to gigabit. I called tech support for an unrelated thing and ended up reviewing my account. I guess I had been paying the same amount all along for the old, obsolete plan that I’m paying now for ten times faster home internet. 😳😀

 

[HDFan]

Seems like they're pretty far ahead these days.

In what way? Verizon has been overtaken by T-Mobile in most cases, depending on your location. They, along with AT&T, made poor spectrum choices in their 5G rollout and are still struggling to catch up with T-Mobile.

Best phone carriers: Verizon vs T-Mobile vs AT&T

This detailed guide covers the best phone carriers with a look at Verizon vs T-Mobile vs AT&T plus some affordable alternatives.

9to5mac.com

 

[zach-coleman]

In what way? Verizon has been overtaken by T-Mobile in most cases, depending on your location. They, along with AT&T, made poor spectrum choices in their 5G rollout and are still struggling to catch up with T-Mobile.

Best phone carriers: Verizon vs T-Mobile vs AT&T

This detailed guide covers the best phone carriers with a look at Verizon vs T-Mobile vs AT&T plus some affordable alternatives.

9to5mac.com

My family changed to T Mobile briefly about 5 years ago and I could never get service inside of any building larger than a suburban home. My friend who currently has it is always the first to lose service. Not appealing to me.

 

[ZebraDude]

I have a 13 Pro and AT&T. I have never had the “5G+” appear and have my connection work correctly. It either drops my speed to a crawl (speedtest will report 1Mb/s or less and things will load at speeds that seem to rival EDGE) or I completely cease getting internet despite it saying I have several bars until it returns to the regular 5G icon. I have a friend with AT&T who has had similar experiences, but he doesn’t live near a MMWave tower so it doesn’t come up much.

I have had this experience in several different states, including most recently New York. It actually happened even while I was in the process of typing this post on a train.

No, AT&T Won't Let Older Phones Tap Into Its Full 5G Network After All

Here's why you shouldn't buy an iPhone 12, iPhone 13 or any non-2022 5G phone on an AT&T installment plan.

www.cnet.com

The 13 Series iPhones are missing some 5G bands on At&t could this be the issue?

 

[zach-coleman]

An interesting map for this discussion. It seems like AT&T is by far the worst carrier currently.

Map | CoverageMap.com

map.coveragemap.com

(Try Filters>Coloring>Best Carrier!)