I have read the American Bravia with X1 Extreme co-processor have got the Dolby Vision FW update. It is working with the Apple TV 4K? In the Sony forums there are people complaining that.. it is a mess. Did anyone manage to make it working?
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Dolby Vision on (USA) Bravia TV with ATV 4K
- Thread starter Michelasso
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The DoVi feature has been removed from the release changelog.
And remark about possible compatibility issues with 3rd-party sources added to product pages of A1E and Z9D.
![chrome_2018-01-17_17-10-31.png]( "chrome_2018-01-17_17-10-31.png")
Go figure.
I think Sony should outsource their software development and deployment to someone capable.
PS Would be interesting to know, if and how does current firmware update (version PKG6.2818.0075NAA) announce DoVi capability in Bravia's EDID.
SwitchResX is one tool to pull that info from HDMI sink.
Current version 4.7.0 is capable of HDR parameter interpretation in EDID.
Without proper EDID data, aTV 4K would not know to offer the DoVi options in A/V resolutions menu. So this is the first prerequisite of them all.
And remark about possible compatibility issues with 3rd-party sources added to product pages of A1E and Z9D.
Go figure.
I think Sony should outsource their software development and deployment to someone capable.
PS Would be interesting to know, if and how does current firmware update (version PKG6.2818.0075NAA) announce DoVi capability in Bravia's EDID.
SwitchResX is one tool to pull that info from HDMI sink.
Current version 4.7.0 is capable of HDR parameter interpretation in EDID.
Without proper EDID data, aTV 4K would not know to offer the DoVi options in A/V resolutions menu. So this is the first prerequisite of them all.
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Unfortunately, it's only working with the TVs onboard apps. They even updated the firmware on the website and it doesn't even mention Dolby vision.
It's a different firmware number but from what I can tell the only thing that changed was the release notes.
It was also PKG6.2818 this morning, when DoVi was still listed as a feature. Not sure about the 0075NAA part any more.
I updated early yesterday morning. The release notes page said 0070NAA but the release my TV received was 0075NAA. Guessing they just removed the reference but the file is the same.
Also, Forbes has a generic update on the issue:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnar...y-rolls-out-and-leaves-sony-tv-owners-fuming/
Oh.. all right. Thanks guys. So it is even worse than I imagined. That Android TV on Bravia will never work at this point. It has issues everywhere. Even in a key selling point like DV, now. Unbelievable.
Would you be able to pull the EDID data from your Bravia then? Just to see if and what evidences it may contain about new HDR mode.
For reference, my HDR10/HLG-olny firmware currently lists this:
Code:
EDID report generated by SwitchResX Version 4.7.0a2 (x64) for display SONY TV *00
-----------------------------------------------------
------------------- RAW DATA ------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A B C D E F
-----------------------------------------------------
0 | 00 FF FF FF FF FF FF 00 4D D9 5B 04 01 01 01 01
1 | 03 1B 01 03 80 90 51 78 0A 0D C9 A0 57 47 98 27
2 | 12 48 4C 20 00 00 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01
3 | 01 01 01 01 01 01 02 3A 80 18 71 38 2D 40 58 2C
4 | 45 00 9F 29 53 00 00 1E 01 1D 00 72 51 D0 1E 20
5 | 6E 28 55 00 9F 29 53 00 00 1E 00 00 00 FC 00 53
6 | 4F 4E 59 20 54 56 20 20 2A 30 30 0A 00 00 00 FD
7 | 00 17 3E 0E 88 3C 00 0A 20 20 20 20 20 20 01 FE
-----------------------------------------------------
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A B C D E F
-----------------------------------------------------
0 | 02 03 53 F2 53 5D 5E 5F 62 1F 10 14 05 13 04 20
1 | 22 3C 3E 12 03 11 02 01 2C 0D 7F 07 15 07 50 3D
2 | 07 BC 57 06 00 83 0F 00 00 78 03 0C 00 33 00 B8
3 | 3C 2F D0 8A 01 02 03 04 01 40 07 F0 60 70 B0 B6
4 | C0 D0 E2 00 CB E3 05 DF 01 E5 0E 61 60 65 66 E3
5 | 06 0D 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
6 | 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
7 | 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 5F
-----------------------------------------------------
< 00FFFFFF FFFFFF00 4DD95B04 01010101 031B0103 80905178 0A0DC9A0 57479827 12484C20 00000101 01010101 01010101 01010101 0101023A 80187138 2D40582C 45009F29 5300001E 011D0072 51D01E20 6E285500 9F295300 001E0000 00FC0053 4F4E5920 54562020 2A30300A 000000FD 00173E0E 883C000A 20202020 202001FE 020353F2 535D5E5F 621F1014 05130420 223C3E12 03110201 2C0D7F07 1507503D 07BC5706 00830F00 0078030C 003300B8 3C2FD08A 01020304 014007F0 6070B0B6 C0D0E200 CBE305DF 01E50E61 606566E3 060D0100 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 0000005F >
-----------------------------------------------------
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-----------------------------------------------------
Valid EDID block #0: checksum ok
Valid EDID block #1: checksum ok
-----------------------------------------------------
------------------- MAIN EDID BLOCK -----------------
-----------------------------------------------------
EDID Version........1.3
Manufacturer........SNY (4DD9)
Product ID..........1115 (045B)
Serial Number.......01010101
Manufactured........Week 3 of year 2017
Max H Size..........144 cm
Max V Size..........81 cm
Gamma...............2.20
Display Supported Features:
---------------------------
Display type:
-------------
RGB 4:4:4 & YCrCb 4:4:4 Color Encoding Formats
Display is non continuous frequency
Default color space is not sRGB standard
Preferred timing mode includes Native Pixel Format
Input signal & sync:
--------------------
Digital Input
Color Bit Depth is undefined
Digital Interface is not defined
Color info:
-----------
Red x = 0.625 Green x = 0.280 Blue x = 0.155 White x = 0.283
Red y = 0.340 Green y = 0.595 Blue y = 0.070 White y = 0.298
Established Timings:
--------------------
640 x 480 @ 60Hz
Manufacturer Reserved Timings:
------------------------------
Standard Timing Identification:
-------------------------------
Monitor Description blocks:
---------------------------
Descriptor #0 - Timing definition:
Mode = 1920 x 1080 @ 60.000Hz
Pixel Clock............. 148.50 MHz Non-Interlaced
Horizontal Vertical
Active.................. 1920 pixels 1080 lines
Front Porch............. 88 pixels 4 lines
Sync Width.............. 44 pixels 5 lines
Back Porch.............. 148 pixels 36 lines
Blanking................ 280 pixels 45 lines
Total................... 2200 pixels 1125 lines
Scan Rate............... 67.500 kHz 60.000 Hz
Image Size.............. 1439 mm 809 mm
Border.................. 0 pixels 0 lines
Sync: Digital separate with
* Positive vertical polarity
* Positive horizontal polarity
Descriptor #1 - Timing definition:
Mode = 1280 x 720 @ 60.000Hz
Pixel Clock............. 74.25 MHz Non-Interlaced
Horizontal Vertical
Active.................. 1280 pixels 720 lines
Front Porch............. 110 pixels 5 lines
Sync Width.............. 40 pixels 5 lines
Back Porch.............. 220 pixels 20 lines
Blanking................ 370 pixels 30 lines
Total................... 1650 pixels 750 lines
Scan Rate............... 45.000 kHz 60.000 Hz
Image Size.............. 1439 mm 809 mm
Border.................. 0 pixels 0 lines
Sync: Digital separate with
* Positive vertical polarity
* Positive horizontal polarity
Descriptor #2 - Monitor name:
SONY TV *00
Descriptor #3 - Monitor limits:
Horizontal frequency range.......14-136 kHz
Vertical frequency range.........23-62 Hz
Maximum bandwidth range..........600 MHz
GTF supported
-----------------------------------------------------
------------ EXTENSION EDID BLOCK 1 ---------------
-----------------------------------------------------
CEA-EXT: CEA 861 Series Extension:
----------------------------------
Revision:...........................3
First DTD block at offset...........79
Display Supports:
Underscan on PC modes
Basic audio
YCbCr 4:4:4
YCbCr 4:2:2
Data Block Collection #1
Video Type: standard CEA Timings
1): (93) 3840 x 2160p @ 24Hz - 16:9
2): (94) 3840 x 2160p @ 25Hz - 16:9
3): (95) 3840 x 2160p @ 30Hz - 16:9
4): (98) 4096 x 2160p @ 24Hz - 256:135
5): (31) 1920 x 1080p @ 50Hz - 16:9 - '1080p50'
6): (16) 1920 x 1080p @ 59.94/60Hz - 16:9 - '1080p'
7): (20) 1920 x 1080i @ 50Hz - 16:9 - '1080i25'
8): ( 5) 1920 x 1080i @ 59.94/60Hz - 16:9 - '1080i'
9): (19) 1280 x 720p @ 50Hz - 16:9 - '720p50'
10): ( 4) 1280 x 720p @ 59.94/60Hz - 16:9 - '720p'
11): (32) 1920 x 1080p @ 23.98/24Hz - 16:9 - '1080p24'
12): (34) 1920 x 1080p @ 29.97/30Hz - 16:9 - '1080p30'
13): (60) 1280 x 720p @ 23.98/24Hz - 16:9 - '720p24'
14): (62) 1280 x 720p @ 29.97/30Hz - 16:9 - '720p30'
15): (18) 720 x 576p @ 50Hz - 16:9 - '576pH'
16): ( 3) 720 x 480p @ 59.94/60Hz - 16:9 - '480pH'
17): (17) 720 x 576p @ 50Hz - 4:3 - '576p'
18): ( 2) 720 x 480p @ 59.94/60Hz - 4:3 - '480p'
19): ( 1) 640 x 480p @ 59.94/60Hz - 4:3 - 'DMT0659'
Data Block Collection #2
Audio Type Block
Supported format: Linear Pulse Code Modulation (LPƒ), on 6 channels
Supported freq: 32kHz, 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz, 96kHz, 176.4kHz, 192kHz
Supported samples: 16 bit, 20 bit, 24 bit
Supported format: AC3, on 6 channels
Supported freq: 32kHz, 44.1kHz, 48kHz
Maximum bitrate: 640kHz
Supported format: DTS, on 6 channels
Supported freq: 32kHz, 44.1kHz, 48kHz
Maximum bitrate: 1504kHz
Supported format: DD+, on 8 channels
Supported freq: 44.1kHz, 48kHz
Data Block Collection #3
Speaker allocation data block
Rear Left / Rear Right
Front Center
LFE
Front Left / Front Right
Front Center High
Top Center
Front Left High / Front Right High
Data Block Collection #4
Vendor specific Identifier
Found HDMI IEEE Registration Identifier
CEC physical address........... 3.3.0.0
Supports AI (ACP, ISRC)........ Yes
Supports 48bpp color depth..... No
Supports 36bpp color depth..... Yes
Supports 30bpp color depth..... Yes
Supports YCbCr 4:4:4........... Yes
Supports dual-link DVI......... No
Maximum TMDS clock............. 300 MHz
HDMI video capabilities........ Yes
Base EDID image size is in multiples of 1cm
Supports 3D.................... Yes
HDMI 1.4a specifics............ present
3D formats supported on mandatory formats
3D formats also supported:
Frame packing
Reserved - 10
on following 2D VICs:
3840 x 2160p @ 24Hz - 16:9
3840 x 2160p @ 25Hz - 16:9
3840 x 2160p @ 30Hz - 16:9
720 x 576p @ 50Hz - 16:9 - '576pH'
Additional 3D information:
1920 x 1080i @ 50Hz - 16:9 - '1080i25' also supports Frame packing
1920 x 1080i @ 59.94/60Hz - 16:9 - '1080i' also supports Frame packing
Data Block Collection #5
Extended Data Block: Video Capability Data Block
CE scan behaviour: Support both over- and underscan
IT scan behaviour: Always Underscanned
PT scan behaviour: No Data
RGB quantization: Selectable (via AVI Q)
YCbCr quantization: Selectable (via AVI Q)
Data Block Collection #6
Extended Data Block: Colorimetry Data Block
xvYCC601
xvYCC709
sYCC601
AdobeYCC601
AdobeRGB
BT2020cYCC
BT2020YCC
BT2020RGB
Data Block Collection #7
Extended Data Block: YCbCr 4:2:0 video data block
0): (97) 3840 x 2160p @ 60Hz - 16:9
1): (96) 3840 x 2160p @ 50Hz - 16:9
2): (101) 4096 x 2160p @ 50Hz - 256:135
3): (102) 4096 x 2160p @ 60Hz - 256:135
Data Block Collection #8
Extended Data Block: HDR static metadata data block
Electro optical transfer functions:
Traditional gamma - SDR luminance range
Traditional gamma - HDR luminance range
SMPTE ST2084
Hybrid Log-Gamma
Supported static metadata descriptors:
Static metadata type 1
Detailed Timing Blocks - 2 are nativeWhen I constantly read about TVs having software problems or not this this right or whatever, it truly should make us all realise what a beautiful device the Apple TV 4K really is. Yes there will always be moaners that say, it doesn't play lossless or this or that, but they are disc users anyway and i'm sure that they'd find fault with something else because that's their style.
The fact the ATV is worry free is wonderful. I'm also happy that I have a basic, but brilliant performing 40" Panasonic EX700 TV. It's something that I never find fault with.
The fact the ATV is worry free is wonderful. I'm also happy that I have a basic, but brilliant performing 40" Panasonic EX700 TV. It's something that I never find fault with.
It is! I finally have a great media player. Which is Infuse. I basically bought the ATV 4K for it. I've tried all of them in my Bravia for Android TV and I became exhausted of dealing with an issue or another. Sony's Video would play just anything, but the subtitles support is minimal (English is my second language and I need written support with some of those crazy Anglo-American accents out there..
).Oh, Amazon Prime Video finally play without stuttering the audio. I can deal with 2.0 audio on 1080p videos. Hopefully it will be fixed soon..
Well.. One of the biggest complaint on Bravia is the broken API for the audio passthrough. It only plays DD/DD+ 5.1 and AAC 2.0. Although most audio formats work with Video (and only with it). So I find it a bit disgraceful that tvOS doesn't support it. Together with the Hi-Res audio.
It's a 200€ box I do expect (pretend?) it to be implemented. But yet again, Infuse has the codecs for it, so spending another 50€ for a lifetime subscription the problem (at least for local media) is solved. Or manually installing Kodi every week. Of which I don't mind. The problem is Kodi in tvOS isn't perfect either. The Dynamic Range Matching isn't working (yet) for example.
Then that YouTube app needs to be updated. It's from 2016. The AVC 4K videos are there in the servers.
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Sony responds to Dolby Vision controversy
https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1516616887
Not happy with what Sony did with the update, but I am hoping Apple with fix this with a firmware update for the Apple TV 4K.
I sent a feedback to Apple:
https://www.apple.com/feedback/appletv.html
https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1516616887
Not happy with what Sony did with the update, but I am hoping Apple with fix this with a firmware update for the Apple TV 4K.
I sent a feedback to Apple:
https://www.apple.com/feedback/appletv.html
Last edited:
Dolby and Sony share responsibility for this mess (though, I blame Sony more because this information wasn't revealed to X1 Extreme Bravia buyers in advance). Dolby is apparently struggling to bring Dolby Vision to wider acceptance. And now HDR10+ is trying to steal Dolby's thunder and I suspect Dolby is concerned.
Basically, Dolby is allowing a VARIETY of different decoding schemes for Dolby Vision. Decoding happening entirely in the TV, part in the TV and part in the HDMI device, and also entirely in the HDMI device. It's a royal mess.
Vincent Teoh at HDTVTest posted this very up-to-date video this morning:
I own the Sony XBR75X940E. I installed the Dolby Vision firmware update last week. I quickly discovered that six 4K Dolby Vision titles on my Apple TV 4K wouldn't play in HDR on my Sony 940E. I have other 4K Dolby Vision titles on the Apple TV 4K that still play in HDR on my Sony 940E. Why some do and some don't is beyond me. I can force those six titles to play in HDR10 by manually switching the 940E's HDR Mode to "HDR10" instead of "AUTO". But that causes SDR content to play back in HDR10, which looks horrible. Constantly switching back and forth between HDR10 and AUTO is far from an elegant solution.
So, I'm anxious for Apple to update the Apple TV 4K to support this "low-latency profile" Dolby Vision scheme that Sony is using (with apparent full support from Dolby Labs). I've already used Apple Feedback (twice) to ask for a quick resolution to the issue. I have my fingers crossed that Apple issues an Apple TV 4K update quickly and crossed even tighter that the Apple TV 4K's hardware can properly support the extra decoding requirements that this Dolby Vision scheme obviously requires.
I'm not upset with Apple about this but I am VERY unhappy with Sony. The 940E is the first Sony brand product I've purchased in over 20 years. It will be the last.
Mark
Basically, Dolby is allowing a VARIETY of different decoding schemes for Dolby Vision. Decoding happening entirely in the TV, part in the TV and part in the HDMI device, and also entirely in the HDMI device. It's a royal mess.
Vincent Teoh at HDTVTest posted this very up-to-date video this morning:
I own the Sony XBR75X940E. I installed the Dolby Vision firmware update last week. I quickly discovered that six 4K Dolby Vision titles on my Apple TV 4K wouldn't play in HDR on my Sony 940E. I have other 4K Dolby Vision titles on the Apple TV 4K that still play in HDR on my Sony 940E. Why some do and some don't is beyond me. I can force those six titles to play in HDR10 by manually switching the 940E's HDR Mode to "HDR10" instead of "AUTO". But that causes SDR content to play back in HDR10, which looks horrible. Constantly switching back and forth between HDR10 and AUTO is far from an elegant solution.
So, I'm anxious for Apple to update the Apple TV 4K to support this "low-latency profile" Dolby Vision scheme that Sony is using (with apparent full support from Dolby Labs). I've already used Apple Feedback (twice) to ask for a quick resolution to the issue. I have my fingers crossed that Apple issues an Apple TV 4K update quickly and crossed even tighter that the Apple TV 4K's hardware can properly support the extra decoding requirements that this Dolby Vision scheme obviously requires.
I'm not upset with Apple about this but I am VERY unhappy with Sony. The 940E is the first Sony brand product I've purchased in over 20 years. It will be the last.
Mark
Why not with Dolby Labs, instead? How is the years-long deployment of buggy DoVi implementation (the elevated black levels issue) on LGs and Vizio-s any better, than releasing a firmware that is now "ahead" of the rest of the market?
I agree on one thing - Sony could have avoided much of this useless talk on open now, simply by doing their communications better.
The amount of various theories in the wild now, is just amazing.
Most of them have no factual explanation, just emotions.
For average consumer, things will not settle before one HDR standard emerges as winner on the market. I would not want to bet if that will be Dolby Vision. May well not be the case, simply because of licensing issues and sheer expense for content creators. Any open and free solution can be more accessible and affordable to the masses.
Heck, you and me are already in the position to issue our home videos in HDR10 or HLG (the latter even comes directly out-of-the-camera from Sony a7R3!). Would not surprise me to see similar developments in other cameras, even iPhone.
Try this with DoVi!
Whoever is to blame I seriously don't understand why the Bravia have enough CPU power to process the DV streams from Android apps and not from the HDMI.
Regarding all the speculations that is what one gets when a company promises one thing and then, once delivered, they have to specify "as long as the HDMI devices support that particular Dolby Vision profile we have implemented no one has ever heard of before".
This is what one gets allowing the marketing people talking out of their.. bottom (as usual) without consulting first with the engineers. Oh, I am still waiting for the long promised HDR on YouTube to be clear.
Regarding all the speculations that is what one gets when a company promises one thing and then, once delivered, they have to specify "as long as the HDMI devices support that particular Dolby Vision profile we have implemented no one has ever heard of before".
This is what one gets allowing the marketing people talking out of their.. bottom (as usual) without consulting first with the engineers. Oh, I am still waiting for the long promised HDR on YouTube to be clear.
My very first sentence in the message you partially quoted was: "Dolby and Sony share responsibility for this mess (though, I blame Sony more because this information wasn't revealed to X1 Extreme Bravia buyers in advance)."
But Dolby Labs didn't sell me the TV that isn't compatible with with existing Dolby Vision external devices, Sony did.
Mark
[doublepost=1516812629][/doublepost]Any Sony A1 Extreme Bravia TV set owner that still believes that Sony will eventually offer a different firmware update to fix the incompatibility with Apple TV 4K can stop holding their breath.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnar...em-update-sony-and-oppo-respond/#4501965a498a
Although there may be tweaks to the firmware for one reason or another, what we got now is what we'll continue to have. The Apple TV 4K (and other external Dolby Vision HDMI devices) will require a firmware update to be compatible with the mentioned Sony TVs. Period.
Mark
This seems similar to Dolby Digital and DTS decoding... a blu ray or DVD player can decode them and send it out as Linear PCM for all the channels... or it can send the actual DD and DTS data to the next unit in the chain to decode. If it's a TV and you turn off your speakers, it'll pass that through then thru an ARC or Optical... and if it's a receiver either directly after the player or after the TV, that can then decode the data and send out the channels.
I like that idea... having the choice where in the line it gets decoded. However, I don't like the thought that my "receiver" (as it were) only accepts the decoded message.
I like that idea... having the choice where in the line it gets decoded. However, I don't like the thought that my "receiver" (as it were) only accepts the decoded message.
FYI - someone on AVS forums posted a screenshot of their Z9D after they installed the just released 11.3 tvOS dev beta and DV is working on it!! Bring on the public beta!!!!
Why should Apple have to fix anything? Their ATV is performing well on both LG (& BANG&OLUFSEN badged C7) and Loewe TVs. Surely the Apple TV is perfect and it is SONY that need to do a proper job??? Don't forget Apple has invested 2Billion dollars in LG. Chances are, they really do not care about SONY, their TVs and their funny disc players.
I have a XBR-49X900E which is 4k and HDR. My AppleTV correctly displays 4k+HDR and is even in Chroma 4.2.2 vs the 4.2.0.
The AppleTV correctly detects and outputs 4k@60Hz in HDR.
However, I have to note, that the AppleTV connects first to a Bose Soundbar. The soundbar sends the signal (video only) to the TV to HDMI port 3 (ARC). I have Enhanced-HDMI enabled also.
I have the latest software for the TV available as well.
Just throwing i my $0.02
The AppleTV correctly detects and outputs 4k@60Hz in HDR.
However, I have to note, that the AppleTV connects first to a Bose Soundbar. The soundbar sends the signal (video only) to the TV to HDMI port 3 (ARC). I have Enhanced-HDMI enabled also.
I have the latest software for the TV available as well.
Just throwing i my $0.02
That is how aTV 4K has been working since launch.
The problem is specifically with Dolby Vision format of HDR (yes, there are several in use at the moment, before one clear market leader emerges).
And more specifically, Sony decided to implement this via a feature of HDMI2.1 protocol, that no source has support for, yet.
The source of my knowledge: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...ad-no-price-talk-please-434.html#post55563726
Yes the ATV works and supports DV on Sony’s with the update.
HLG and HDR10 are static, Dolby Vision and HDR10+ are dynamic (picture settings can be changed for each frame, although mostly changing them per scene is enough).
https://www.cnet.com/news/hdr10-vs-dolby-vision-vs-hlg-how-do-hdr-formats-compare/