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teh_hunterer

macrumors 65816
Jul 1, 2021
1,112
1,452
Wow. A lot of angst going on there. Calm down a bit. A lot of people donā€™t know what left wing is and use the term incorrectly. Why hate people when you donā€™t even know what it is? Relax dude.

That is projection at its absolute finest šŸ˜…

Bellissimo.
 
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MacProFCP

Contributor
Jun 14, 2007
1,210
2,765
Michigan
Unfortunately Iā€˜m afraid itā€˜s too late. Rather than engaging in critical rational thought people devour slogans, half baked truths, and selfish ideas. Dr. King saw it all coming when saying nothing pains people more than having to think. John F Kennedy saw its approach when he encouraged Americans to focus our vision on the greater good rather than on ourselves. And on the world stage Iā€™m afraid what the greatest generation sacrificed for us all was in vain.
Donā€™t lose hope. Donā€™t believe everything CNN tells you; donā€™t believe everything Fox tells you; and, donā€™t believe anything the NY Times tells you.

I own two businesses and volunteer with several organizations. While, I am insanely busy, this situation ensures that I often deal with many people who have vastly different political views than my own. I have even, on occasion, worked with the White House and politicians whom I did not vote for, including the current and former administrations.

You would be pleasantly surprised to know, that, in the real world, the rhetoric is just not there. Occasionally, my own views come to light, and though I prefer keep it out of the business conversation, it rarely becomes an issue.

This is my point. If we can keep the pontificating to people we have ā€œreal world relationshipsā€ with, it is substantially less likely to downgrade to vituperation.

Thatā€™s not to say that I have never left a conversation thinking the other incompetent. Yet, I do not leave thinking the other evilā€¦(OK, maybe a once or twice.)

If CEOs and others, especially those in Big Tech, who have collectively, and unethically decided that they are the gatekeepers, would let government do the governing; who would encourage the public to have open discussion instead of fostering conflict, we may have a different and better world. A world where you can buy a chicken sandwich or go to a theme park without being concerned your money will be used to harm the causes you hold dear.

Lastly, I agree that while the Media and those in positions of power will do everything they can to control the narrative, we The People, are choosing more and more to ignore them, which is, IMO, a great place for unity to breed.
 

Born Again

Suspended
May 12, 2011
4,073
5,328
Norcal
As I said, people are always going to say mean things that you disagree with on the internet. Doesn't mean Apple should censor it for you. It doesn't mean they won't. But they shouldn't.

But if you are going to start censoring people then you need to be really careful about what is considered "hateful rhetoric". If you think it's enough to say "hate speech shouldn't be allowed", well, the idea that hate speech exists in the first place as something that should be censored is a left wing idea. It doesn't mean it's wrong, but it means you're looking at potentially at least half of the people disagreeing with the premise.

If you want to censor something based on a premise that at least half of people disagree with, at least acknowledge it. Don't pretend that "hateful rhetoric" is some idea that we all agree with, because it isn't.
Half the people want hate speech online? Says who?

Anonymity is the reason why such speech is so pervasive online.

There are little repercussions online. Perhaps they need to start connecting names to accounts?

We all know what happens when a racist is outed.
 
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vipergts2207

macrumors 601
Apr 7, 2009
4,320
9,642
Columbus, OH
So much for that lie being spread about Elon allowing anything to go on there. Violate the TOS, and you're still gone as it should be. Proving yet again the advertisers paused their campaigns for no reason other than pressure from activist groups.

Interesting. Are you ok with Elon's censorship of West?
 

webkit

macrumors 68030
Jan 14, 2021
2,908
2,523
United States
Elon played the victim by exaggerating an issue that didnā€™t exist to begin with. Apple became a bad guy to many based on misinformation put out by a known troll.

I've had doubts that there was ever an issue or threat to Twitter here. Whether Musk genuinely thought there was or not is debatable too.
 

webkit

macrumors 68030
Jan 14, 2021
2,908
2,523
United States
I am no lawyer, but I think anti-trust is a stretch in this situation. If Apple were to remove Twitter, it would not be for the purpose of eliminating competition. It would be because Musk had destroyed the infrastructure and human capital of the company to such a point that Apple could not be assured of basic security and appropriate moderation.

And, yes, moderation is absolutely an essential part of any platform. Apple has every right to be concerned about it when deciding who gets to be in their App Store. It's not only about hate speech, political conspiracies, and lies. How about a school shooter that posts a video that does not get taken down quickly because the moderation team has been decimated? How about videos and other content that exploit minors?

Again, I am not saying that Twitter should be removed, but Apple has every right to make this decision if Twitter lacks the will or staff to moderate content.

Which is why I stated Apple removing the Twitter app wouldn't necessarily be an issue. My comments have been more about dominance/market power and what rights a company may or may not have. A company with a dominant position in a market that engages in anticompetitive behavior can be violating antitrust laws and regulations, even if it is their platform.
 

RickInHouston

macrumors 65816
May 14, 2014
1,457
2,210
Tim Apple got hammered walking down the hall in some D.C. building. He can't escape he bowed down to a communist regime. This shoots the company's human rights stand through the heart and stomps on it.
 

bradl

macrumors 603
Jun 16, 2008
5,934
17,425
So much for that lie being spread about Elon allowing anything to go on there. Violate the TOS, and you're still gone as it should be. Proving yet again the advertisers paused their campaigns for no reason other than pressure from activist groups.

But...but...but... FREEDOM OF SPEECH!!!! :rolleyes:

BL.
 

teh_hunterer

macrumors 65816
Jul 1, 2021
1,112
1,452
Half the people want hate speech online? Says who?

Anonymity is the reason why such speech is so pervasive online.

There are little repercussions online. Perhaps they need to start connecting names to accounts?

The idea that hate speech is something that can and should be enforced is not shared by as many people as you think. The enforce hate speech laws or rules, you need to designate someone to decide what gets censored and what doesn't, and the people who end up doing that in a society are the people you would least want to. And who are they to decide what the rest of us can think and say?

There is no way to do this without an eventual slide towards tyranny.

If you're OK with the power to censor people based on your political views, you should also be OK with other people having the power to censor you based on their political views. Fair's fair.

We all know what happens when a racist is outed.

Not sure what the point of all this bluster is.
 

Born Again

Suspended
May 12, 2011
4,073
5,328
Norcal
This would have been an interesting meeting to sit in on.
The idea that hate speech is something that can and should be enforced is not shared by as many people as you think. The enforce hate speech laws or rules, you need to designate someone to decide what gets censored and what doesn't, and the people who end up doing that in a society are the people you would least want to. And who are they to decide what the rest of us can think and say?

There is no way to do this without an eventual slide towards tyranny.

If you're OK with the power to censor people based on your political views, you should also be OK with other people having the power to censor you based on their political views. Fair's fair.



Not sure what the point of all this bluster is.
Youā€™re still ignoring that there are rules on Twitter, apple, workplaces, schools, etc for hate speech.

Remind me again are they tyrannical ?
 
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teh_hunterer

macrumors 65816
Jul 1, 2021
1,112
1,452
Youā€™re still ignoring that there are rules on Twitter, apple, workplaces, schools, etc for hate speech.

Remind me again are they tyrannical ?

Nah, you can't just refuse to engage with my argument while asking me to keep engaging with yours.

To enforce hate speech laws or rules, you need to designate someone to decide what gets censored and what doesn't, and the people who end up doing that in a society are the people you would least want to. And who are they to decide what the rest of us can think and say?
 

Irock619

macrumors 68000
Sep 16, 2011
1,788
293
San Francisco, CA
I wonder what leverage Elon has over Tim
šŸ¤”
Iā€™m sure Twitter is a treasure trove of information. Anybody know how many shares of Apple stock Elon owns? Maybe one day we will all find out how they resolved this ā€œmisunderstandingā€.
 

Jumpthesnark

macrumors 65816
Apr 24, 2022
1,047
4,520
California
Well, these threads are always good for at least one thing - finding a couple more accounts to slap with an "ignore." It's a shame, since I don't want to only hear one side.

But when people are having a normal conversation about the topic at hand (Musk visiting Cook at the Apple campus) and the next thing you know the thread has been hijacked by screeds that include "woke" and "children having genital surgery" and "left-wing-racists" and on and on and on, ignore it is. I'm sure they'll get to Hunter Biden's laptop soon enough (if they haven't already - I stopped reading).

Most normal people I know don't derail conversations like this. They just live their lives and talk about what's being discussed. Like adults.
 

Irock619

macrumors 68000
Sep 16, 2011
1,788
293
San Francisco, CA
Well, these threads are always good for at least one thing - finding a couple more accounts to slap with an "ignore." It's a shame, since I don't want to only hear one side.

But when people are having a normal conversation about the topic at hand (Musk visiting Cook at the Apple campus) and the next thing you know the thread has been hijacked by screeds that include "woke" and "children having genital surgery" and "left-wing-racists" and on and on and on, ignore it is. I'm sure they'll get to Hunter Biden's laptop soon enough (if they haven't already - I stopped reading).

Most normal people I know don't derail conversations like this. They just live their lives and talk about what's being discussed. Like adults.
I mean...you are in the political section of macrumors. Why are you here?
 

vipergts2207

macrumors 601
Apr 7, 2009
4,320
9,642
Columbus, OH
The idea that hate speech is something that can and should be enforced is not shared by as many people as you think. The enforce hate speech laws or rules, you need to designate someone to decide what gets censored and what doesn't, and the people who end up doing that in a society are the people you would least want to. And who are they to decide what the rest of us can think and say?

There is no way to do this without an eventual slide towards tyranny.

If you're OK with the power to censor people based on your political views, you should also be OK with other people having the power to censor you based on their political views. Fair's fair.



Not sure what the point of all this bluster is.
We participate on platforms where we agree to potentially be censored all the time. This very forum for instance. As long as my governmentally protected right to free speech isnā€™t being infringed, thereā€™s no issue.
 
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