Windows FFXIV A Realm Reborn Goes Retail

[iamsen47]

According to my friends, 1~20 is a cake walk for all classes.

The battle classes go all the way to 30 quite easily, 40 is where it starts getting tough.
Gathering starts getting grindy from 20 onwards and terribly grindy after 30.
Haven't heard much from the craftsmen yet.

 

[iamsen47]

This is not the first FF MMO. I can't believe they don't have this.

Yoshida, the producer/director, explained this in a letter posted a couple days back. There's a nice 'into the details' thread on reddit by people who know how servers work but basically, an AFK kick does no good to anybody.

There problems are several fold but no.1, it is way too easy to circumvent any kind of AFK boot with a macro program. The botters will already have it set up to re-log into the game anyway and people coming in and out all the time would only add more stress the the log-in servers, which are separate from the game/world server itself. Having people in the game AFK is easier to manage because if they're not doing anything, the server doesn't need to assign any resources to them (loading monsters, skills, refreshing environments, etc) so leaving them in actually aids stability rather.

The thing about 5000 persons per server is that it's not a fixed number, but just a rough estimate. All good server architecture has auto load balancing to assign resources to people/places that need it, all those AFKers aren't taking up much resources in the grand scheme of things. The real problem with the log in restrictions is not so much people AFKing, but just the large number of people trying to log in as the same time, and that is a more symptomatic problem they are trying to solve. They have installed new servers and also optimised code to better control the load, it should be done within this weekend and will be live by next week.

Again, look for the thread on reddit, it's very enlightening and you'll learn a whole lot about server architecture and the mob mentality, and how sincere an effort SE and Yoshida has been putting in to make the game better for everyone.

 

[Huntn]

I felt the same way about 1-10, post 10 the story opens up and so do the options available to experience it. If you played any FFXI, these guys are no stranger to making a game EXTREMELY difficult. I think this is their attempt at easing the audience in

You just scared the crap out of me! I want no part of EXTREMELY difficult.

 

[e²Studios]

This is not the first FF MMO. I can't believe they don't have this.

I believe it has something to do with the PS3 client, I vaguely remember this coming up in the beta forums.

I agree they need a AFK kick, I logged in, went to the gym, and came back 2 hours later and was in still logged in. I did it by accident but completely expected to be logged out, kinda like AFK in WoW.

They're having some startup pains like most MMO's I think they underestimated how popular this was going to be and now are trying to play catch up. I know for a fact they are adding more hardware and bandwidth in NA datacenters as we speak.

Give it some time, honestly it's never taken me more than 5-10 min to login. I'm going to try to make a new toon this weekend, I'll see how bad it is then lol.

 

[Huntn]

According to my friends, 1~20 is a cake walk for all classes.

The battle classes go all the way to 30 quite easily, 40 is where it starts getting tough.
Gathering starts getting grindy from 20 onwards and terribly grindy after 30.
Haven't heard much from the craftsmen yet.

I'll approach this thing in a casual way until 1) I get bored or 2) it becomes too difficult/grindy. Listening to my WoW addicted friend talk about her raids, that sounds too much like work.

Yoshida, the producer/director, explained this in a letter posted a couple days back. There's a nice 'into the details' thread on reddit by people who know how servers work but basically, an AFK kick does no good to anybody.

There problems are several fold but no.1, it is way too easy to circumvent any kind of AFK boot with a macro program. The botters will already have it set up to re-log into the game anyway and people coming in and out all the time would only add more stress the the log-in servers, which are separate from the game/world server itself. Having people in the game AFK is easier to manage because if they're not doing anything, the server doesn't need to assign any resources to them (loading monsters, skills, refreshing environments, etc) so leaving them in actually aids stability rather.

The thing about 5000 persons per server is that it's not a fixed number, but just a rough estimate. All good server architecture has auto load balancing to assign resources to people/places that need it, all those AFKers aren't taking up much resources in the grand scheme of things. The real problem with the log in restrictions is not so much people AFKing, but just the large number of people trying to log in as the same time, and that is a more symptomatic problem they are trying to solve. They have installed new servers and also optimised code to better control the load, it should be done within this weekend and will be live by next week.

Again, look for the thread on reddit, it's very enlightening and you'll learn a whole lot about server architecture and the mob mentality, and how sincere an effort SE and Yoshida has been putting in to make the game better for everyone.

Thanks for the info! The impression maybe a misimpression is that servers have a capacity and once full, they stop more logins regardless if the player is active or not. In this case kicking AFK players would be an appropriate way to handle it.

But are you saying that the server recognizes players that are AFK and allows other players to login? My question would be what happens if all those AFK people wake up and become active when the server is all ready at it's active player capacity?

----------

I believe it has something to do with the PS3 client, I vaguely remember this coming up in the beta forums.

I agree they need a AFK kick, I logged in, went to the gym, and came back 2 hours later and was in still logged in. I did it by accident but completely expected to be logged out, kinda like AFK in WoW.

They're having some startup pains like most MMO's I think they underestimated how popular this was going to be and now are trying to play catch up. I know for a fact they are adding more hardware and bandwidth in NA datacenters as we speak.

Give it some time, honestly it's never taken me more than 5-10 min to login. I'm going to try to make a new toon this weekend, I'll see how bad it is then lol.

The thing is if the server is so full you get a "try later" message, it can take a very long time. I'm surprised that they don't maintain separate servers for the PS3 crowd. No reason in particular other than World of Tanks is opening an Xbox version and those will be separate accounts and servers, maybe because Xbox charges for XBox live?

 

[e²Studios]

The thing is if the server is so full you get a "try later" message, it can take a very long time. I'm surprised that they don't maintain separate servers for the PS3 crowd. No reason in particular other than World of Tanks is opening an Xbox version and those will be separate accounts and servers, maybe because Xbox charges for XBox live?

SE wanted one environment not separate servers for each platform, I agree with this model as it makes the most sense from a MMO perspective. Plus I want to be able to switch from my PC to my PS3 seamlessly, which this game allows.

Every MMO has had startup pains, and just going off my experience from being there from the start with Ultima Online and WoW the issues FF is experiencing right now are pretty minor and easily remedied. From the outside looking in if you've never been there from the start on another MMO I can see how the frustration would grow, to me a 5-10 min wait to login isn't bad at all considering its in the first week. I had no issues making a toon on Exodus nor have I waited more than 5-10 min (with "try again later" messages) to login.

So for I'm honestly really impressed, my expectation were incredibly low but SE has delivered a great MMO to compete with the juggernaut Blizzard has. Will I cancel my WoW sub, no way, I'll be there till the day Blizz decides to cut me off. For now though my time will be very skewed toward FFXIV.

All MMO's will begin to feel like you're grinding, its the nature of the beast, so far FFXIV has kept me entertained enough to play for more than I would care to admit lol. I never really raided much in WoW, I'm a casual player that plays to get away and have some fun. The raid stuff and raid guilds seemed too much like a 2nd job to me. I don't play for that, I play at my own pace and so long as I'm having fun that what matters more than making "end game" to me. I am also the person that will play any game I buy on "easy" mode, I enjoy the story and using a game to have fun and get away if I wanted stress and challenges I'd go back to work

 

[iamsen47]

But are you saying that the server recognizes players that are AFK and allows other players to login? My question would be what happens if all those AFK people wake up and become active when the server is all ready at it's active player capacity?

Again, it's not aso much about server load, but about peak time traffic. People AFKing during an off peak time period will not affect your log in whatsoever. But during the peak evening hours on the relevant servers, there is a huge spike in traffic from people trying to log in, and it is that rush that is preventing people from logging in. Think of it as a kind of DDOS attack.

It being peak hours, those AFK people are most likely going to be active anyway and while there might be a handful that are still AFK, it won't affect server load in any significant way. The problem is not the number of people in the game, but the number of people trying to connect to it. Kicking a few AFKers will not solve that issue, the only way to solve it is to add more server capacity which is itself a whole nother set of problems, see thread linked below.

Also, while kicking a few AFKers may free up a little bit of load, you are replacing a stable variable (because it's not doing anything) with an unstable one (quests, items, anything) that ADDs to server load. It was explained that doing so instead will cause the servers to destabilise, kicking everyone off the server instead, which then creates a negative spiral because you now have an even larger number of people effectively DDOSing the log in servers.

That was basically what happened during the early access days, they overloaded the game servers which caused everyone to get kicked off and so suddenly we now have up to 200k players trying to log in at the same time, which basically forced the log-in servers to overload and crash, which eventually caused the entire system to crash.

A system running at 70~80% max capacity is more stable than a system running at 100% capacity, because you then have a buffer with which to handle sudden outbursts. It's like running a marathon, you're not going to last long sprinting from the beginning.



I recommend reading these 2 threads.

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/1l7n5x/why_servers_suck_a_simplified_abridged_guide_from/

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/1ld2rv/further_details_on_access_restrictions/

 

[Huntn]

SE wanted one environment not separate servers for each platform, I agree with this model as it makes the most sense from a MMO perspective. Plus I want to be able to switch from my PC to my PS3 seamlessly, which this game allows.

Every MMO has had startup pains, and just going off my experience from being there from the start with Ultima Online and WoW the issues FF is experiencing right now are pretty minor and easily remedied. From the outside looking in if you've never been there from the start on another MMO I can see how the frustration would grow, to me a 5-10 min wait to login isn't bad at all considering its in the first week. I had no issues making a toon on Exodus nor have I waited more than 5-10 min (with "try again later" messages) to login.

So for I'm honestly really impressed, my expectation were incredibly low but SE has delivered a great MMO to compete with the juggernaut Blizzard has. Will I cancel my WoW sub, no way, I'll be there till the day Blizz decides to cut me off. For now though my time will be very skewed toward FFXIV.

All MMO's will begin to feel like you're grinding, its the nature of the beast, so far FFXIV has kept me entertained enough to play for more than I would care to admit lol. I never really raided much in WoW, I'm a casual player that plays to get away and have some fun. The raid stuff and raid guilds seemed too much like a 2nd job to me. I don't play for that, I play at my own pace and so long as I'm having fun that what matters more than making "end game" to me. I am also the person that will play any game I buy on "easy" mode, I enjoy the story and using a game to have fun and get away if I wanted stress and challenges I'd go back to work

I agree that production values of this game are high, much higher than the last WoW expansion I played (before pandas). I just need to see a bit more. For now it's one step at a time, get logged in on a N.A. server, and not get bored or beaten to death.

Again, it's not aso much about server load, but about peak time traffic. People AFKing during an off peak time period will not affect your log in whatsoever. But during the peak evening hours on the relevant servers, there is a huge spike in traffic from people trying to log in, and it is that rush that is preventing people from logging in. Think of it as a kind of DDOS attack.

It being peak hours, those AFK people are most likely going to be active anyway and while there might be a handful that are still AFK, it won't affect server load in any significant way. The problem is not the number of people in the game, but the number of people trying to connect to it. Kicking a few AFKers will not solve that issue, the only way to solve it is to add more server capacity which is itself a whole nother set of problems, see thread linked below.

Also, while kicking a few AFKers may free up a little bit of load, you are replacing a stable variable (because it's not doing anything) with an unstable one (quests, items, anything) that ADDs to server load. It was explained that doing so instead will cause the servers to destabilise, kicking everyone off the server instead, which then creates a negative spiral because you now have an even larger number of people effectively DDOSing the log in servers.

That was basically what happened during the early access days, they overloaded the game servers which caused everyone to get kicked off and so suddenly we now have up to 200k players trying to log in at the same time, which basically forced the log-in servers to overload and crash, which eventually caused the entire system to crash.

A system running at 70~80% max capacity is more stable than a system running at 100% capacity, because you then have a buffer with which to handle sudden outbursts. It's like running a marathon, you're not going to last long sprinting from the beginning.



I recommend reading these 2 threads.

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/1l7n5x/why_servers_suck_a_simplified_abridged_guide_from/

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/1ld2rv/further_details_on_access_restrictions/

My counter, (but I acknowledge I should not be arguing ) is that the game does allow a queue and I believe people are willing to wait in queue, but instead are receiving a "try later" message which is much worse than a 500 or even a 1000 person queue. And once you are in queue, you progress forward in the queue based on server capacity. I have a hard time believing that AFK players don't effect this in some manner.

I remember reading something about an issue about how many players the login server can handle in queue and it was relatively low. And then there is a separate issue about how many N.A. servers are cut off from character creation. I realize that should change soon, however in the mean time I believe SE should be extending free time on the servers to make up for these issues.

I'll take a look at your links. I may have read one of them all ready.

 

[Huntn]

4 Days after launch, tried logging in multiple times today on a N.A. server....

"World is full, try later, World is full, try later, World is full, try later, World is full, try later, World is full, try later."

Square Enix YOU SUCK!

 

[e²Studios]

Tried logging in multiple times today on a N.A. server....

"World is full, try later, World is full, try later, World is full, try later, World is full, try later, World is full, try later."

Square Enix YOU SUCK!

I made 3 toons with no issues on Behemoth last night, I logged in and out of all of them about 20 min ago with no issues.. My toon on Exodus took about 5 min to get in to. There can't be that much of a difference? Are you on a really slow connection perhaps?

 

[Plutonius]

Not a word, Plutonius.

WoW, you really think I would say something ?

 

[Huntn]

I made 3 toons with no issues on Behemoth last night, I logged in and out of all of them about 20 min ago with no issues.. My toon on Exodus took about 5 min to get in to. There can't be that much of a difference? Are you on a really slow connection perhaps?

I have a fast cable connection. Maybe it's the server I'm on... I've not tried in the last couple of hours. All of them? Is Behemoth a N.A. server?

WoW, you really think I would say something ?

Possibly... oh, feel free.
4.5 days after Launch:
Update 1848 U.S. Central Time, attempted ten logins:

"World is full, try later, World is full, try later, World is full, try later, World is full, try later, World is full, try later."

Square Enix YOU STILL SUCK!

If by next Tuesday, it's still like this, my message will go onto the SE Forums.

 

[e²Studios]

I have a fast cable connection. Maybe it's the server I'm on... I've not tried in the last couple of hours. All of them? Is Behemoth a N.A. server?



Possibly... oh, feel free.

Update 1848 U.S. Central Time, attempted ten logins:

"World is full, try later, World is full, try later, World is full, try later, World is full, try later, World is full, try later."

Square Enix YOU STILL SUCK!

If by next Tuesday, it's still like this, my message will go onto the SE Forums.

Heres a interesting thing, could be coincidence though. Tried unsuccessfully to login on my PC for 15-20 min, login to PS3 and I was logged in under 5 min.. There was a point where I was getting a error saying it couldn't list NA/EU servers but the JP servers were showing. I restarted my airport and it seemed to fix it but could have been coincidence again.

Heres a login tip that helps, click create a new char and keep refreshing the screen until you see your server come up, once your server is up/green click out of create and quickly login. You will likely be in a queue but it helped me with quicker load times rather than guessing.

 

[Huntn]

Heres a interesting thing, could be coincidence though. Tried unsuccessfully to login on my PC for 15-20 min, login to PS3 and I was logged in under 5 min.. There was a point where I was getting a error saying it couldn't list NA/EU servers but the JP servers were showing. I restarted my airport and it seemed to fix it but could have been coincidence again.

Heres a login tip that helps, click create a new char and keep refreshing the screen until you see your server come up, once your server is up/green click out of create and quickly login. You will likely be in a queue but it helped me with quicker load times rather than guessing.

I'll try that. Now I can't pull up the N.A. World list either. I know this is not the first terrible MMO launch, but it is my first. They really dropped the ball imho.

Is it me or do the Elezen females look like their heads are too small for there bodies? This is one of the large races. Compare the head with the shoulders. The other large race (Roegadyn) look like tanks, especially the males. They remind me of Borderland Bricks...

 

[e²Studios]

I'll try that. Now I can't pull up the N.A. World list either. I know this is not the first terrible MMO launch, but it is my first. They really dropped the ball imho.

It could be worse, trust me. It's been really bad this weekend, I think they may have forgotten its a holiday weekend here.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/76132-Login-Issue-Update

 

[Liquorpuki]

I'll try that. Now I can't pull up the N.A. World list either. I know this is not the first terrible MMO launch, but it is my first. They really dropped the ball imho.

Yeah this is a pretty bad launch. Not the worst one I've been through (that would be Anarchy Online) but its surprising they would underestimate server load this much to the point they would stop digital sales. They're basically giving up money right now because of a dumb planning mistake.

I don't know how much I'll like this game 3 months from now but so far I like what I've seen. I really like the fact you're not locked into any class... that's something I haven't seen since SWG. I kinda gave up on the genre after GW2 and TSW but I'm finding myself being drawn back in again because of this game.

 

[Huntn]

Yeah this is a pretty bad launch. Not the worst one I've been through (that would be Anarchy Online) but its surprising they would underestimate server load this much to the point they would stop digital sales. They're basically giving up money right now because of a dumb planning mistake.

I don't know how much I'll like this game 3 months from now but so far I like what I've seen. I really like the fact you're not locked into any class... that's something I haven't seen since SWG. I kinda gave up on the genre after GW2 and TSW but I'm finding myself being drawn back in again because of this game.

How do you feel about subscriptions?

 

[Liquorpuki]

How do you feel about subscriptions?

I'm old school so subs aren't that big a deal to me. If I like the game, I have no problem paying the monthly and don't feel ripped off. If I get bored, I'm not gonna play anyway even if it's free. The best MMO's I've ever played - AO, SWG, WoW I paid the subs for at least a couple years because the experience they offered I couldn't get anywhere else and I enjoyed them a lot. What's funny is I actually quit playing The Secret World because they went F2P... in sub form that game had the best storyline/atmosphere out of any MMO I've ever played. After Funcom decided to go F2P to survive, I figured there's no way they could keep up the cinematic quality that made that game worthwhile so I said why bother.

I know the value proposition has changed because the original GW proved F2P could work. But I'd rather pay up front, and put it on the dev to keep me interested. A good F2P MMO is pretty much the exception... most are just WoW clones that started out sub-based and failed, and are now monetizing F2P to survive.

 

[Huntn]

I'm old school so subs aren't that big a deal to me. If I like the game, I have no problem paying the monthly and don't feel ripped off. If I get bored, I'm not gonna play anyway even if it's free. The best MMO's I've ever played - AO, SWG, WoW I paid the subs for at least a couple years because the experience they offered I couldn't get anywhere else and I enjoyed them a lot. What's funny is I actually quit playing The Secret World because they went F2P... in sub form that game had the best storyline/atmosphere out of any MMO I've ever played. After Funcom decided to go F2P to survive, I figured there's no way they could keep up the cinematic quality that made that game worthwhile so I said why bother.

I know the value proposition has changed because the original GW proved F2P could work. But I'd rather pay up front, and put it on the dev to keep me interested. A good F2P MMO is pretty much the exception... most are just WoW clones that started out sub-based and failed, and are now monetizing F2P to survive.

My experience with F2P indicated that Star Wars was quality but on the mediocre side. GuildWars2 was good but it did not keep me engaged. Part of the equation is the "after-WoW" me. It was the best, but if I can't even go back to play it because I have changed, been there, done that. Something new has to figure out a new way to intrigue me. Something of a lesser value has no chance at all.

 

[Liquorpuki]

My experience with F2P indicated that Star Wars was quality but on the mediocre side. GuildWars2 was good but it did not keep me engaged. Part of the equation is the "after-WoW" me. It was the best, but if I can't even go back to play it because I have changed, been there, done that. Something new has to figure out a new way to intrigue me. Something of a lesser value has no chance at all.

SWTOR was just a reskinned WoW Clone. That's pretty much been the trend since WoW dominated the market. MMO's are a huge gamble so devs are now scared to innovate - they take the WoW Themepark system, add on a few marginal innovations, portray those marginal innovations as groundbreaking, and release. Then as a player, you enjoy those innovations for a month or 2, then the newness tapers off and you realize the gaming mechanics are the same as WoW and you've done it all before - IE level treadmill, quests, talent trees, pvp/raid endgame, etc.

I've totally ignored FFXIV up to now, mostly because I watched my friend play the original release a few years ago and it looked boring to me. But after trying it I like the fact you're not pigeon-holed into a single class... that's something I haven't seen since SWG. Same with crafting being its own class instead of just a profession (that came from WoW). I also like the fact they're including a player housing system - this used to be mandatory in all MMO's but WoW eliminated it, everyone else copied, so I haven't seen an MMO with player housing in almost a decade.

 

[Huntn]

SWTOR was just a reskinned WoW Clone. That's pretty much been the trend since WoW dominated the market. MMO's are a huge gamble so devs are now scared to innovate - they take the WoW Themepark system, add on a few marginal innovations, portray those marginal innovations as groundbreaking, and release. Then as a player, you enjoy those innovations for a month or 2, then the newness tapers off and you realize the gaming mechanics are the same as WoW and you've done it all before - IE level treadmill, quests, talent trees, pvp/raid endgame, etc.

I've totally ignored FFXIV up to now, mostly because I watched my friend play the original release a few years ago and it looked boring to me. But after trying it I like the fact you're not pigeon-holed into a single class... that's something I haven't seen since SWG. Same with crafting being its own class instead of just a profession (that came from WoW). I also like the fact they're including a player housing system - this used to be mandatory in all MMO's but WoW eliminated it, everyone else copied, so I haven't seen an MMO with player housing in almost a decade.

WoW was my first MMORPG, (I played the original Planetside a MMOFPS before WoW) and I was in on WoW during beta. It was the first fantasy based RPG where the environment "wowed" me. As I recall the choice for me was WoW or SWG which came out about the same time. Based on history, I am really happy I chose WoW.

Regarding FFXIV, I'll try to log in again this week and if I can't get in, I'll start squawking on their forums. As a subscriber I expect the ability to log in on a daily basis, not get continuous "try back later" messages. If they don't want me to play, or too inept to manage their MMO properly, then give me a refund. I did not volunteer for one of those kickstart efforts.

 

[e²Studios]

WoW was my first MMORPG, (I played the original Planetside a MMOFPS before WoW) and I was in on WoW during beta. It was the first fantasy based RPG where the environment "wowed" me. As I recall the choice for me was WoW or SWG which came out about the same time. Based on history, I am really happy I chose WoW.

Regarding FFXIV, I'll try to log in again this week and if I can't get in, I'll start squawking on their forums. As a subscriber I expect the ability to log in on a daily basis, not get continuous "try back later" messages. If they don't want me to play, or too inept to manage their MMO properly, then give me a refund. I did not volunteer for one of those kickstart efforts.

I was able to login Saturday and I stayed logged in until last night. I hope the maintenance tonight will fix the login issues and maybe they will have enough common sense to enable a AFK/Idle purge like every other MMO has.

At the following time, we will be performing maintenance on FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reborn to perform the operations listed below. During this period, FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reborn will be unavailable.
[Details]
Addition of new Worlds
Implementation of countermeasures to handle the influx of concurrent user counts as a result of split processing the duty finder
Address several known issues
Clients will update automatically upon launch after the date and time below.
We will announce details of the fixes at a later time.
We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause and thank you for your understanding.
[Date & Time]
From Sep. 3, 2013 5:00 p.m. to Sep. 4, 2013 3:00 a.m. (PDT)
The completion time may be subject to change.
[Affected Service]
FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reborn

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ds-Maintenance-(Sep.-3)?p=1152245#post1152245

 

[Huntn]

I was able to login Saturday and I stayed logged in until last night. I hope the maintenance tonight will fix the login issues and maybe they will have enough common sense to enable a AFK/Idle purge like every other MMO has.



http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ds-Maintenance-(Sep.-3)?p=1152245#post1152245

Oh, they apologized again. That makes all the difference.
Seriously, I'm wait and see. Will try to log in sometime, I guess not tonight. I saw server maintenance as: Sep. 3, 2013 5:00 p.m. to Sep. 4, 2013 3:00 a.m. (PDT)

3Sept13, for the Record tried Adamantoise several times this afternoon and got the usual response: "Try Back Later".

 

[Huntn]

I was able to play for a couple of hours last night (9/4) on Siren, a move in the right direction. However I have given up hope I'll be playing with my guild on Excalibur anytime soon. Might have to find a guild that lives on Siren.

 

[e²Studios]

I was able to play for a couple of hours last night (9/4) on Siren, a move in the right direction. However I have given up hope I'll be playing with my guild on Excalibur anytime soon. Might have to find a guild that lives on Siren.

They said server transfers are high on their list but keeping things stable is their priority. I would tend to agree with them, I'd rather have stability over being able to move around worlds.