Finally... another ecosystem?

[0989382]

Myself and many others have spent a lot of time and money in recent years moving from the Mac to Windows and Linux on non-Apple hardware. For various reasons, most return. The ecosystem hold is too strong, that's my primary 'issue' with Windows & other hardware and with Android etc. The 'integration'.

Android and Windows won't sync how iOS and macOS does, though there are less elegant workarounds. Google has a good ecosystem but it lacks a real OS on the computer part. Microsoft has a strong ecosystem but it's famously missing a phone OS / wing. It's fair to say that nothing can quite compare to how Apple does it at the minute, in terms of how smooth and seamless and integrated things are.

Until now.. I've encountered a company called Purism... They make two laptops and have an upcoming smartphone. They don't run Windows OR Android. This to me, is a big deal. They run 'PureOS', a Linus distro, but one they promise to maintain and work on 'for life', even for the upcoming phone.

It's all privacy focussed and open. The hardware is metal bodied, only comes with an i7, has some good reviews on YouTube, particularly one where the trackpad and keyboard are named as one of it's best aspects.

They're not cheap, but then, they're cheaper than a Mac.

Having a smartphone and laptop running full Linux seems great when I sink into the marketing on their website... Linux in your pocket and your desk, perhaps there are ways to integrate each. One thing is for sure, unlike Apple (iCloud), Google (Chrome), Android (Google), Microsoft (Office365) there's no lock in whatsoever with Linux. Could this be the way to break out of the Apple ecosystem lock?

Much of this is a personal problem, actually wanting to belong to and work with an ecosystem. With the closed source options, it's so enticing to do so. With Linux, you don't have this. But you've got some good company.. e.g. Firefox and other open projects you can depend on.

What do you guys think, would you ever go all in on this kind of setup?


The website is https://puri.sm , check it out. And no, I'm not paid to say any of this, but I'm genuinely taken away by it and think it's a good alternative for someone whose 'tried Windows' and 'tried Android' and came back to Apple. Could this be another choice?

 

[MacDawg]

I use Windows at work and I like running Linux in a couple of VMs on my Mac
But I am perfectly comfortable with my MacBook Pro and iPhone integration (and maybe an Apple Watch eventually)
I have no issues with any of it and have no desire to break free from what works exceptionally well for me

 

[0989382]

I use Windows at work and I like running Linux in a couple of VMs on my Mac
But I am perfectly comfortable with my MacBook Pro and iPhone integration (and maybe an Apple Watch eventually)
I have no issues with any of it and have no desire to break free from what works exceptionally well for me

Don't get me wrong, I'm not part of the anti-Apple rhetoric on here, but I am truly fascinated with this concept.

The phone can also be used with a monitor / keyboard as a desktop. ..

 

[raqball]

HP tried this concept a few years ago on a Windows phone.. I do realize this is about something other than Mac or Win but if I remember correctly, it was terrible trying to use the phone in desktop mode when connected to a monitor..

Interesting concept though and thanks for sharing..

 

[Thysanoptera]

It's all privacy focussed and open. The hardware is metal bodied, only comes with an i7, has some good reviews on YouTube, particularly one where the trackpad and keyboard are named as one of it's best aspects.

They're not cheap, but then, they're cheaper than a Mac.

To me it looks like they're selling a copy of old Acer Swift 3 with some ports shuffled from side to side, and you can buy no-name Chinese laptops, 100% identical to Libre for less than half their price, which is still more than Swift was selling back in 2017, with exact same hardware.

As for software and ecosystem - I don't care about integration, especially nowadays where everything is cloud based and can be accessed from any system. Linux cannot be used as primary desktop system in corporate environment, and trying to replace iOS, Android, Windows and MacOS with overpriced hardware lacking commercial software support will fail.

I think cheap Linux machines on ARM have much more chances to become widely adopted. Something like $199 or $99 Pinebook, not a a 3 year old entry level model from a budget maker dressed as a $1400 premium device. There has to be first a substantial quantity of Linux users to force commercial software providers to jump into this market, and only then we can talk about building a Linux based ecosystem for individual users.

 

[c0ppo]

I’m already using a android phone with linux. And everything is in sync, even clipboards.
Just install kdeconnect on any android phone, and kdeconnect on kde distros, or gsconnect on gnome distros. It takes 2mins to set up.

 

[MrRabuf]

What do you guys think, would you ever go all in on this kind of setup?

I wouldn't because I don't really care about ecosystems and integration. Sure, I do things like use iMessage on my work MBP but only because they paid for it and I can. I don't miss that feature when I'm using my home Windows PC nor would I miss it if I had to start using a Windows PC at work. I'm fine with my phone/pc/etc not being integrated.

I've also never felt locked in to an Apple ecosystem but maybe because I've always used a mix of Apple and non-Apple devices and thus have mostly used services that work on both. I just don't think using a combination of Apple/Android/Windows/Linux/etc devices/PCs together is that big of a deal or hard.

 

[2984839]

I'm not sure what people mean when they talk about ecosystems and integration. What do you do that requires your phone and laptop to be integrated and why does that require the same vendor?

I never had any use for integration besides email, but IMAP clients abound. For backups I just use an SSH server because everything can speak SFTP. There are lots of vendor neutral cloud solutions (Dropbox for file storage, Google for everything, etc) if you're into that kind of thing.
[doublepost=1566396009][/doublepost]

I wouldn't because I don't really care about ecosystems and integration. Sure, I do things like use iMessage on my work MBP but only because they paid for it and I can. I don't miss that feature when I'm using my home Windows PC nor would I miss it if I had to start using a Windows PC at work. I'm fine with my phone/pc/etc not being integrated.

I've also never felt locked in to an Apple ecosystem but maybe because I've always used a mix of Apple and non-Apple devices and thus have mostly used services that work on both. I just don't think using a combination of Apple/Android/Windows/Linux/etc devices/PCs together is that big of a deal or hard.

100% agree. Though I actually find the iMessage thing on laptops irritating beyond belief.

 

[raqball]

I've used pushbullet for years on Android and Windows to sort of mimic what Apple does integration wise. I think the paid version is $30 a year and adds copy and paste and a few other features that does not come with the free version..

 

[0989382]

HP tried this concept a few years ago on a Windows phone.. I do realize this is about something other than Mac or Win but if I remember correctly, it was terrible trying to use the phone in desktop mode when connected to a monitor..

Interesting concept though and thanks for sharing..

I remember watching Microsoft's Windows Phone Event where they showed this off, I think it was part of Windows Universal Platform on their phone OS and was only supported by high end phones (very few that actually made it to market), with the HP Elite being the highest end and also one of the last. The lack of development for Windows Phone OS in general was so poor, that I suppose this changed nothing. But the concept to me was so fascinating. Though, it was far from full Windows. I miss Windows Phone!

To me it looks like they're selling a copy of old Acer Swift 3 with some ports shuffled from side to side, and you can buy no-name Chinese laptops, 100% identical to Libre for less than half their price, which is still more than Swift was selling back in 2017, with exact same hardware.

As for software and ecosystem - I don't care about integration, especially nowadays where everything is cloud based and can be accessed from any system. Linux cannot be used as primary desktop system in corporate environment, and trying to replace iOS, Android, Windows and MacOS with overpriced hardware lacking commercial software support will fail.

I think cheap Linux machines on ARM have much more chances to become widely adopted. Something like $199 or $99 Pinebook, not a a 3 year old entry level model from a budget maker dressed as a $1400 premium device. There has to be first a substantial quantity of Linux users to force commercial software providers to jump into this market, and only then we can talk about building a Linux based ecosystem for individual users.

I can't imagine Chinese laptops with the decent all metal build quality and living up to the kind of promises Purism is making, but if you have a link I'd be curious to see just how similar it is to the Acer and the better cheaper Chinese alternatives, especially with the TPM chip and other 'bragging points' of the Librem laptop. Also, it seems to be £829 when you choose the UK keyboard, a huge price drop. They look better than most Linux OEM laptops I've seen.

I’m already using a android phone with linux. And everything is in sync, even clipboards.
Just install kdeconnect on any android phone, and kdeconnect on kde distros, or gsconnect on gnome distros. It takes 2mins to set up.

I must look into this, didn't know it existed and would have imagined it would take a computer science degree to setup lol

I wouldn't because I don't really care about ecosystems and integration. Sure, I do things like use iMessage on my work MBP but only because they paid for it and I can. I don't miss that feature when I'm using my home Windows PC nor would I miss it if I had to start using a Windows PC at work. I'm fine with my phone/pc/etc not being integrated.

I've also never felt locked in to an Apple ecosystem but maybe because I've always used a mix of Apple and non-Apple devices and thus have mostly used services that work on both. I just don't think using a combination of Apple/Android/Windows/Linux/etc devices/PCs together is that big of a deal or hard.

That's fair enough, not everybody values that aspect of macOS / iOS, but a lot of people do. Hence it being a rare and possibly game changing thing to some people that now an OEM is producing both a phone and a laptop without iOS or Android. Though the whole ecosystem lock in of course is all in one's head, but that nonetheless means many big purchases and investments in tech are based on it for me and others with similar love for Apple.

I'm not sure what people mean when they talk about ecosystems and integration. What do you do that requires your phone and laptop to be integrated and why does that require the same vendor?

I never had any use for integration besides email, but IMAP clients abound. For backups I just use an SSH server because everything can speak SFTP. There are lots of vendor neutral cloud solutions (Dropbox for file storage, Google for everything, etc) if you're into that kind of thing.
[doublepost=1566396009][/doublepost]

100% agree. Though I actually find the iMessage thing on laptops irritating beyond belief.

Well, ecosystems meaning being all in on Apple / iCloud, Microsoft / OneDrive or Google / Android services etc.

MacOS and iOS are the only real out of the box, seamless and easy to setup and manage execution of this. As others have mentioned, it is possible with Android but again requires a bit of installing this, configuring that etc. Its definitely not seamless or intended for a novice user. And some Android <> Windows 10 apps currently are very poor in comparison to how Apple does it, not to mention patchy at best. My big fascination here was now there's another OEM working on a phone, an OS and a laptop ~ and it's open / privacy based / not iOS nor Android nor Windows. Fascinating to me as they've the chance to really nail it as say, Apple have.

Well, picture your mail. Safely stored online, always available on all your devices. Now, if you're like me you have over 10,000 photos, notes, contacts, calendars, directories of files... imagine all of that always being on all your devices, always in sync and very low cost to have. That's iCloud on the Mac and iOS. For some people, that's a big deal. And this is why a lot of people love the Mac / find it hard to leave. There are third party services for each, but they cost way more in total and don't necessarily play as well together. Even my Apple Music on all devices and podcasts are all up to date. The ecosystem is real, is good and hard to break out of for those who value it. I understand not everybody does.

I'd imagine the number of users backing up with SSH servers etc is very low , hobbyist level even. It's pretty awesome, but it's definitely not recommendable to say those who depend on iCloud / Google Drive and the likes in most cases.

I've used pushbullet for years on Android and Windows to sort of mimic what Apple does integration wise. I think the paid version is $30 a year and adds copy and paste and a few other features that does not come with the free version..

I've never heard of this, but that's good. Though subscription? Personally I hate subscription software models but I get why they exist. Personally that's way too much for me to pay for something my iOS / Mac stuff does out of the box for free. It's a bit like that "Add up the cost of Windows third party software to make it as capable as a Mac out of there box and it's no longer better value" to me?

 

[raqball]

I miss Windows Phone!

Same... I loved windows phones and the Nokia 930 was and still is my all time favorite device...

 

[Thysanoptera]

I can't imagine Chinese laptops with the decent all metal build quality and living up to the kind of promises Purism is making, but if you have a link I'd be curious to see just how similar it is to the Acer and the better cheaper Chinese alternatives, especially with the TPM chip and other 'bragging points' of the Librem laptop. Also, it seems to be £829 when you choose the UK keyboard, a huge price drop. They look better than most Linux OEM laptops I've seen.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32969384437.html

Black is the Librem. Acer swift is below, the SD card is on the other side. All three have 13.3 screen, all metal build, 2.5 inch SATA + m.2 SSD, 7200u. Librem and the Chinese no-name are absolutely identical (if you forget about the badly photoshoped screen at the top picture).

 

[c0ppo]

I must look into this, didn't know it existed and would have imagined it would take a computer science degree to setup lol

No degree required. Just a android app and a computer app. Couldn’t be easier.

 

[lowendlinux]

The point of Purism isn't an Eco-System nor is it so much Linux as it is open hardware & software as well as privacy. The Librem 5 will probably be my next phone and if I buy a laptop the Librem 13 w/key will likely be it.

 

[ghanwani]

Unfortunately, even though I hope they make it, I don't think they will be successful for the same reasons that Blackberry didn't make it. There are very few people that care about their privacy. Their hardware will not be cost or feature competitive (just don't have economy of scale) and providing decent support is likely to pose a significant challenge, unless they are somehow able to convince carriers to do the heavy lifting for them.

 

[lowendlinux]

Unfortunately, even though I hope they make it, I don't think they will be successful for the same reasons that Blackberry didn't make it. There are very few people that care about their privacy. Their hardware will not be cost or feature competitive (just don't have economy of scale) and providing decent support is likely to pose a significant challenge, unless they are somehow able to convince carriers to do the heavy lifting for them.

What does the carrier need to do? All they need to keep updates flowing is GUI front end for apt, which already exists.

In the same respect what makes you think this is intended to be a mass market phone, everything purism does is for their niche not broad appeal.

PureOS is in essence Debian minus anything closed source which is why they can run it on both their phone and their computers. The Debian community is full of free software people and the companies that contribute do with Debian in mind this isn't on company trying go it on their own.

The hard part of what they do is getting HW free of closed source binaries to include firmware, they're not a reboot of System76 et. al.

The people buying the Librem5 are buying because it's FOSS and runs Linux not because of it's spec sheet or price.

It's a $700 phone the runs Linux without any Android or iOS apps, if that appeals to you you're their market and I'll bet there's enough people out there that it does to make it a viable small business.

 

[derekamoss]

I remember watching Microsoft's Windows Phone Event where they showed this off, I think it was part of Windows Universal Platform on their phone OS and was only supported by high end phones (very few that actually made it to market), with the HP Elite being the highest end and also one of the last. The lack of development for Windows Phone OS in general was so poor, that I suppose this changed nothing. But the concept to me was so fascinating. Though, it was far from full Windows. I miss Windows Phone!



I can't imagine Chinese laptops with the decent all metal build quality and living up to the kind of promises Purism is making, but if you have a link I'd be curious to see just how similar it is to the Acer and the better cheaper Chinese alternatives, especially with the TPM chip and other 'bragging points' of the Librem laptop. Also, it seems to be £829 when you choose the UK keyboard, a huge price drop. They look better than most Linux OEM laptops I've seen.



I must look into this, didn't know it existed and would have imagined it would take a computer science degree to setup lol



That's fair enough, not everybody values that aspect of macOS / iOS, but a lot of people do. Hence it being a rare and possibly game changing thing to some people that now an OEM is producing both a phone and a laptop without iOS or Android. Though the whole ecosystem lock in of course is all in one's head, but that nonetheless means many big purchases and investments in tech are based on it for me and others with similar love for Apple.



Well, ecosystems meaning being all in on Apple / iCloud, Microsoft / OneDrive or Google / Android services etc.

MacOS and iOS are the only real out of the box, seamless and easy to setup and manage execution of this. As others have mentioned, it is possible with Android but again requires a bit of installing this, configuring that etc. Its definitely not seamless or intended for a novice user. And some Android <> Windows 10 apps currently are very poor in comparison to how Apple does it, not to mention patchy at best. My big fascination here was now there's another OEM working on a phone, an OS and a laptop ~ and it's open / privacy based / not iOS nor Android nor Windows. Fascinating to me as they've the chance to really nail it as say, Apple have.

Well, picture your mail. Safely stored online, always available on all your devices. Now, if you're like me you have over 10,000 photos, notes, contacts, calendars, directories of files... imagine all of that always being on all your devices, always in sync and very low cost to have. That's iCloud on the Mac and iOS. For some people, that's a big deal. And this is why a lot of people love the Mac / find it hard to leave. There are third party services for each, but they cost way more in total and don't necessarily play as well together. Even my Apple Music on all devices and podcasts are all up to date. The ecosystem is real, is good and hard to break out of for those who value it. I understand not everybody does.

I'd imagine the number of users backing up with SSH servers etc is very low , hobbyist level even. It's pretty awesome, but it's definitely not recommendable to say those who depend on iCloud / Google Drive and the likes in most cases.




I've never heard of this, but that's good. Though subscription? Personally I hate subscription software models but I get why they exist. Personally that's way too much for me to pay for something my iOS / Mac stuff does out of the box for free. It's a bit like that "Add up the cost of Windows third party software to make it as capable as a Mac out of there box and it's no longer better value" to me?

I iss windows phone so much too. The only reason it failed was because Microsoft screwed up in the mobile race. The hardware was decent(Nokia 1020 FTW) and the UI were so much better than iOS or android.

 

[0989382]

Unfortunately, even though I hope they make it, I don't think they will be successful for the same reasons that Blackberry didn't make it. There are very few people that care about their privacy. Their hardware will not be cost or feature competitive (just don't have economy of scale) and providing decent support is likely to pose a significant challenge, unless they are somehow able to convince carriers to do the heavy lifting for them.

I think in the next 5 years as we see the huge fall of Facebook and huge changes to how Google operates (due to Facebook downright failing to respect users in every aspect and Google increasingly having it's open but still creepy behaviour become more and more known to the average / typical / non tech savvy user that could change. Only time can tell.

But PureOS / Purism, as it is today, remains a seed. If those events unfold how I imagine they will, then that seed could nourish. Especially if there's anything behind claims that Apple apparently doesn't respect user privacy as some recent reports seem to say (but, knowing journalism, it's just clickbait)..

 

[raqball]

I iss windows phone so much too. The only reason it failed was because Microsoft screwed up in the mobile race. The hardware was decent(Nokia 1020 FTW) and the UI were so much better than iOS or android.

Microsoft screwed up Win phone by not enticing developers to make apps for it. That was always my one and only gripe. MS has $$$$$$$ out the wazoo so they could have easily offered devs top $$ to create / port apps to the platform.

Win phone will always be my all time favorite mobile OS followed by Blackberry.. MS was either incompetent or never really wanted it to succeed in the 1st place..

 

[ghanwani]

I think in the next 5 years as we see the huge fall of Facebook and huge changes to how Google operates (due to Facebook downright failing to respect users in every aspect and Google increasingly having it's open but still creepy behaviour become more and more known to the average / typical / non tech savvy user that could change. Only time can tell.

But PureOS / Purism, as it is today, remains a seed. If those events unfold how I imagine they will, then that seed could nourish. Especially if there's anything behind claims that Apple apparently doesn't respect user privacy as some recent reports seem to say (but, knowing journalism, it's just clickbait)..

Doesn’t matter what companies do with peoples data. It was never about privacy. It’s all about money—at many levels but it would be off topic to bring those up in this thread.

If people cared about privacy tools like Signal and ProtonMail would be ubiquitous. Most people haven’t heard of those.

If the govt cared about data they wouldn’t settle with Equifax for $5 per persons data that was hacked.

Software, e.g. ProtonMail, can survive as a niche. Hardware cannot. You need volumes or the economics will not make sense.

And then you need distribution channels and support (both technical and financial in terms of subsidies) and that’s where carriers come in. But they sure as heck don’t care about privacy.

 

[0989382]

Microsoft screwed up Win phone by not enticing developers to make apps for it. That was always my one and only gripe. MS has $$$$$$$ out the wazoo so they could have easily offered devs top $$ to create / port apps to the platform.

Win phone will always be my all time favorite mobile OS followed by Blackberry.. MS was either incompetent or never really wanted it to succeed in the 1st place..

I never did jump into Windows Phone, but was always curious. I feel as a devoted Apple fan who appreciates the integration / ecosystem I'd have gotten on much better with it than I have with Android.

I'll never understand how Microsoft with it's cash, investment, talent and expertise in software could have given up so easy.

I'm sure Google / Android community had a way of porting the best iPhone apps back in the day and that's how it became on-par / as appealing to consumers as the App Store. I know Apple tried to block it, but eventually they couldn't stop them. If Microsoft had even dipped into their pockets to get the big apps ported, just so that users didn't lose out, it'd have made a huge difference!

I don't know if I'd be as sympathetic to BlackBerry. They had the best keyboard / technology use for their time, but IMO (and I suppose a lot of people) the iPhone / modern smartphone really did blow it out of the water. Whereas Windows Phone, I think they were onto user interface / ways that definitely could have had their place in the modern technology world had MS not cancelled it.

Doesn’t matter what companies do with peoples data. It was never about privacy. It’s all about money—at many levels but it would be off topic to bring those up in this thread.

If people cared about privacy tools like Signal and ProtonMail would be ubiquitous. Most people haven’t heard of those.

If the govt cared about data they wouldn’t settle with Equifax for $5 per persons data that was hacked.

Software, e.g. ProtonMail, can survive as a niche. Hardware cannot. You need volumes or the economics will not make sense.

And then you need distribution channels and support (both technical and financial in terms of subsidies) and that’s where carriers come in. But they sure as heck don’t care about privacy.

Well a lot of that's beyond my area of knowledge, but what you're saying makes sense.

I'll continue to watch Purism / PureOS from time to time, but I'm not jumping in now that I've looked into it. And I suppose therein lays the problem and the point you're making... If people like me who were totally enthused by it still won't buy it and vote with their wallet then I guess that's not a good sign for their success down the line!

 

[lowendlinux]

Purism is a social purpose company and everything they do is completely free they're not really looking for the money so much. Everything they do is up-streamed so they don't need to exist in order for the idea to continue or support to continue.

One of the problems with discussing Linux/FOSS and it's varied HW vendors here is people assume that they and Apple/Google have the same goals but they generally don't. People also assume that it has to have some defining app or whatever i.e. if it doesn't have whatsapp/imessage etc. it's not going to succeed when in reality the people that are interested in thing like the librem 5 wouldn't have either anywhere near their phone.

Purism is the Richard Stallman of phones I wouldn't be surprised if in the next couple years it's forked and closed binaries get added and another manufacturer like System76 builds a mostly free phone with a compat layer that allows Android apps.

 

[east85]

I'm currently typing this on an Asus C302 (m3/64gb/4gb) with PureOS. I've completely removed all traces of chromeOS. The first thing I noticed was how blazing fast it is on this hardware. I've seen the video of their phone booting in 7 seconds and it doesn't really surprise me after being on it for a while now. I guess for them the dream for some would be to just have one computer (the phone) and do away with the idea of having two (the phone + laptop). Back when Apple marketed their LED cinema displays the entire premise of those advertisements was that you could just grab your MacBook when you were on the go and almost seamlessly transition back into a desktop environment when you arrived to your home or office. I don't think this is too radically different from that concept, at least in spirit.

Their hardware is for a segment of the population that wants 100% transparency and control. No other manufacturers are offering physical killswitches to my knowledge. This means they can charge with much more headroom to anyone interested in that kind of granular control. There's also the die-hard FOSS only group out there (think #teamhuman), which only accepts software that is open and auditable by the public for security and transparency. I personally recognize the value in FOSS over blind trust, as much as I recognize the value of Apple not being an advertising company. That said, I am not willing to let go of every non-FOSS piece of software. I still use Apple Music and iCloud Mail in my browser (de-googled Chromium), Google Cloud + GSuite to manage my site and on and on. The phone isn't out yet, and I have no idea if I could make what I need to have even work in that ecosystem for mobile. There's still times when I just need to have my iPhone but I'm 100% content rolling with it as my sole laptop OS.

If I had to take a wild guess the phone will not be as polished out of the gate though PureOS, which is essentially Gnome + Debian, is quite polished on desktop. Either way their core market will still buy to support FOSS and granular control because there is no other real answer for them out there. Their app store will be lacking in comparison to Google or Apple and they may never gain widespread market adoption, but this doesn't mean they can't sustain their products from their core audiences alone. There's definitely growth in FOSS answers to existing solutions. I think maybe one good example is the growing adoption of decentralized social media as people grow unnerved about private companies having control over public discourse. Though they are still quite small they are very much in a growth stage. Linux has been dominating for ages server side, just never in the consumer facing space so I suppose anything is possible, however unlikely (not counting android).

As for the ecosystem lock in, the most "locked-in" thing about Apple for me was the inability to export iCloud keychain. Apart from the keychain issue everything is relatively easy to migrate. I imagine credit card lock in will up the ante even though it's a great thing for privacy in that space.

 

[filu_]

Hi, first I apologize for my English - I write using google translate.

A very interesting discussion. I have been a Linux user for ~ 10 years (privately, I use Windows at work). Due to my needs, Linux limitations were not a problem - Firefox, VLC, Gimp or LibreOffice met my requirements. There was a bit of a problem, for example, with a printer or scanner at the stage of purchase or later operation.

In Linux, I have always liked multiplicity and openness, I have gone through Debian, Ubuntu, Arch Linux, Gentoo and Fedora. Now, and for the longest time, I've been using OpenSuse with the Mate pulse, because KDE or Gnome are too heavy for my old desktop.

When it comes to phones, in the era before smartphones, I used different Nokia phones, and when smartphones appeared, I defended myself against the smartphone for a long time, until finally I changed Samsung Solid to Nokia Lumia 520. Then there was Samsung, in which I was annoyed by duplicating applications (email client from Google and from Samsung) and slow operation. I changed it to Nexus (pure Android) but I lacked a sense of consistency when I installed the missing applications myself. I especially missed what Nokia has always had - the car profile.

Suddenly I found that what I consider an advantage in the Linux world is a hindrance on Android. For this Google policy and continuous user tracking. I had a Blackberry (Z10) for a while and I liked that the system was simple, practically nothing configurable in appearance (no skins) and had the most important things for me: mail, messenger, phone and navigation. You could feel the spirit of "good old Nokia" (I had E50, E72). Unfortunately, BB collapsed shortly after.

After that, I started my adventure with Iphone 5S and since then I only have Apple phones. In a way, it is similar to Blackberry - it is relatively safe, the system is friendly, complete, consistent (although there are bugs). Coexistence with Linux was not very comfortable because I could transfer photos to my desktop, but to add music to my phone I had to use iTunes on my wife's Windows laptop.

My Linux computer was still the main place for reliable work for me - a place where I stored movies and music shared by DLNA on my home network, an archive of photos and personal documents. And also - the place where I archived mail from gmail, live and icloud.

However, when I bought an iPad mini (recently changed to Air + Logitech keyboard) I started to feel an increasing desire to have a complete ecosystem. All documents and spreadsheets that I created in LibreOffice were inaccessible from the iPad (theoretically there is a workaround by converting to .docx and .xlsx + Dropbox + MS Office to the iPad). So I had to think about switching completely with the "office" part to the iPad, leaving the desktop the role of a media file server, or going completely to the Apple ecosystem.

I bought a Mac mini but because it did not work well with the external monitor (random black screen and wake problems) I exercised my right of return and sent the computer back. However, these several days allowed me to get to know the "dark" sides of the ecosystem. The clear ones include the possibility of continuing any work anywhere (I mean browsing the Internet, writing text, correspondence, etc.).

For the dark ones - libraries management completely incomprehensible to me - music and especially photos. Years of my work involving the manual creation of thematic and chronological catalogs (e.g. Holidays 2019, Wedding of a brother, etc.). could be destroyed by clicking "Organize library"
I just prefer to transfer photos from my iPhone, wife's iPhone, digital camera or USB flash drive, if someone else took the photos, to my main storage medium.

This example shows that in MacOS applications not only fulfill their basic function but also try to organize the content in their own way, which for me is unacceptable. Of course, it was not decisive when deciding to return the mini, but it was not at all obvious to me that I would immediately order another computer, e.g. an iMac.

So again, I am in a situation where my old desktop is my basic tool (probably due to the large monitor), I transfer photos manually, I am not able to transfer music, and I complete the spreadsheet with a home budget on the iPad using Number and on the desktop, by using Calc.

Therefore, I was interested in both this discussion and the Purism project. I agree with those who see the weaknesses of the project due to the "original sin of Linux" that is too small the scale, hence the lack of interest in hardware and software developers. On the other hand, with many open source projects still going on, the need for privacy and control over your own content can become important to many people. Governments and corporations want to follow everything, and on the other hand, there are more and more effective tools to do so. For example, in many countries, governments have started to abuse power, restrict rights and track citizens under the cover of a pandemic, and telephones, especially smartphones, are perfect for this (the obligation to install "quarantine" applications). I don't want to develop this thread, it's just an example.

Best regards!