Funny/shocking experiences browsing the 2nd hand iMac market

[tornado99]

So I'm hunting for a 2nd hand 21.5" Retina iMac, 2017 or 2019, to be used as my second computer in a family property I visit occasionally. I intend to run Sonoma via OCLP.

These are the things I've noticed so far:

• There are loads of old iMacs on ebay and refurbisher websites. The 2017 iMacs especially are dropping in price like crazy now. This is amazing for people like me who just want to do light tasks on a razor-sharp bright screen. Try buying a 218 ppi 500 nits monitor less than 27". You can't.
• There seems to be a trend of going through the painful process of opening up the iMac, only to install the lowest quality SATA SSD possible from a totally unknown brand. I even found a shop that does this with all their Macs 🤷‍♂️ Good luck when a year after buying a "refurb" iMac the garbage SSD fails. They could have literally spent $20 more on a Crucial MX500 for a solid upgrade.
• Many sellers have no idea what "SSD" means, or the difference between SATA or NVME. Hence you'll find 1TB Fusion iMacs advertised for more than 256GB NVME iMacs.
• Some sellers upgrade the iMac themselves and use a variety of creative solutions to stick the screen back on. My favourite - "I'm a Mac tech and I used 3M tape". Good luck when your screen falls off a few months later 😆
• Some sellers are "refurbing" a non-retina 2015/2017 iMac by maxing it out to 32GB RAM + 2TB SATA SSD. and then selling it for more than a retina iMac. They curiously don't mention the resolution of the display anywhere on the advert, but you can usually tell from the processor.

Of course most of this is because a lot of people who own/buy/sell iMacs are technically illiterate, but it still surprised me how careful you need to be to get what you want.

 

[Fishrrman]

I would look for a 27" (not 21") 2017 or 2019 iMac.

If it had an SSD factory-installed, I'd use it.

If it had a fusion drive, I'd leave the fusion drive alone, and attach a USB3.1 gen2 external SSD to one of the USBc ports, and boot & run that way.

Is this property going to be left "unoccupied" for periods of time?
If you boot/run from an external SSD, you can just "take the SSD with you" when you're away.
This means that if there was a break-in and somebody stole the iMac, all they would get is a computer -- and NOT your data.

Just a thought (in these uncertain times)...

 

[tornado99]

Because the 27" are better specced? Unfortunately I do find that size screen a bit big for my tastes.

I actually think the weakest point of the 2017 21" is the 4-core processor, but the 2019 6-core models are still quite expensive.

Good points on the SSD. The iMac will be left unattended. I was thinking of encrypting the system disk with FireVault.

 

[Nguyen Duc Hieu]

[*]Some sellers upgrade the iMac themselves and use a variety of creative solutions to stick the screen back on. My favourite - "I'm a Mac tech and I used 3M tape". Good luck when your screen falls off a few months later 😆

What do you think the OWC adhesive kit, or other sellers' kit was made of?
And how many kinds of 3M tape do you actually know about?
I do know that 3M produces very strong double size tape. I used them some times with very good result.
Some certain types of the 3M tape need to be added with extra liquid adhesive when using with glass, some doesn't.

 

[tornado99]

There are reports of both the OWC adhesive kit and the iFixit adhesive kit failing. These are thin strips of double sided tape, whereas the original Apple adhesive kit has a double layer of foam between the 2 tape layers. When the foam is under compression it allows the adhesive to properly contact the entire panel and case edge.

I would personally avoid any re-stuck iMac that doesn't use a foam-centered adhesive.

 

[ignatius345]

There are reports of both the OWC adhesive kit and the iFixit adhesive kit failing. These are thin strips of double sided tape, whereas the original Apple adhesive kit has a double layer of foam between the 2 tape layers. When the foam is under compression it allows the adhesive to properly contact the entire panel and case edge.

I would personally avoid any re-stuck iMac that doesn't use a foam-centered adhesive.

I used an iFixit kit on my 2014 iMac and the adhesive held fine for a couple years after. Not to say the adhesive can't fail. My experience with that process involved a LOT of time spent removing the original adhesive prior to putting on the new strips. I wonder if people are taking shortcuts and leaving that residue on, which would compromise the seal of the new adhesive.

 

[ignatius345]

Because the 27" are better specced? Unfortunately I do find that size screen a bit big for my tastes.

I know this is a Mac you don't use much, but I bet you could find a base model M1 iMac used somewhere pretty cheaply. You'd get more years of support out of it, and it would be very usable right now.

 

[tornado99]

I know this is a Mac you don't use much, but I bet you could find a base model M1 iMac used somewhere pretty cheaply. You'd get more years of support out of it, and it would be very usable right now.

Absolutely, unfortunately in my area 2nd hand base M1 24" are around 275% more expensive than 2nd hand 2017 iMac 21.5".

Performance is actually fine on the older model. You don't need massive processing power for most common tasks.

 

[ignatius345]

Absolutely, unfortunately in my area 2nd hand base M1 24" are around 275% more expensive than 2nd hand 2017 iMac 21.5".

Performance is actually fine on the older model. You don't need massive processing power for most common tasks.

Definitely agree. The ONE caveat is that OS (and security updates) will probably end a lot sooner for Intel Macs. Might not at all be a big deal for your use case though.

 

[chadamorrill]

Just a quick thought... You state that the monitor is incredibly important, listing specific PPI and nits of brightness, etc. Definitely it's a fabulous monitor, but if this is just a spare machine sitting in a room in a second family property, does it really matter all that much? Would a MacMini and a nicer qHD screen or something similar not be enough for that scenario?

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

So I'm hunting for a 2nd hand 21.5" Retina iMac, 2017 or 2019, to be used as my second computer in a family property I visit occasionally. I intend to run Sonoma via OCLP.

These are the things I've noticed so far:

• There are loads of old iMacs on ebay and refurbisher websites. The 2017 iMacs especially are dropping in price like crazy now. This is amazing for people like me who just want to do light tasks on a razor-sharp bright screen. Try buying a 218 ppi 500 nits monitor less than 27". You can't.
• There seems to be a trend of going through the painful process of opening up the iMac, only to install the lowest quality SATA SSD possible from a totally unknown brand. I even found a shop that does this with all their Macs 🤷‍♂️ Good luck when a year after buying a "refurb" iMac the garbage SSD fails. They could have literally spent $20 more on a Crucial MX500 for a solid upgrade.
• Many sellers have no idea what "SSD" means, or the difference between SATA or NVME. Hence you'll find 1TB Fusion iMacs advertised for more than 256GB NVME iMacs.
• Some sellers upgrade the iMac themselves and use a variety of creative solutions to stick the screen back on. My favourite - "I'm a Mac tech and I used 3M tape". Good luck when your screen falls off a few months later 😆
• Some sellers are "refurbing" a non-retina 2015/2017 iMac by maxing it out to 32GB RAM + 2TB SATA SSD. and then selling it for more than a retina iMac. They curiously don't mention the resolution of the display anywhere on the advert, but you can usually tell from the processor.

Of course most of this is because a lot of people who own/buy/sell iMacs are technically illiterate, but it still surprised me how careful you need to be to get what you want.

Nothing particularly new here. See the classic (Roman) latin phrase: Caveat emptor! Since the dawn of time, buyers have always had to be careful about what they buy. It's on buyers to do the work to be sure they are getting what they think they are buying.

What I would ADD to your post though is that some people buy these to then do the cheap conversion to make themselves an ASD-like monitor...

Most of the money in his headline is for the Mac... so as pricing slides, these 5K Retina "monitors" are getting even cheaper for those willing to convert them.

An ALT consideration for you is to perhaps do the same and pair it with maybe a new/refurb Silicon Mac Mini or get yourself a MB and link it to it when there to use it like a desktop.

Personally, I struggle with the whole OCLP approach, which is basically using a third party hack to install updated macOS versions... when one of the biggest reasons to do the latter is to protect against hacks. I always wonder how secure OCLP Macs are and I own a few older Macs that COULD run latest macOS if I opted to go that way myself.

For the value minded, that idea of pairing a homemade 5K monitor (via an iMac hardware hack) and then a later model Mac Mini or MB may be worth some consideration... instead of leaning on OCLP.

OR Option 2: Install Windows 10 and let that light/occasional use iMac run as a PC. Windows reaches back further than macOS to support older hardware... and security updates are frequent. No low level layer hack necessary.

 

[bryo]

There are reports of both the OWC adhesive kit and the iFixit adhesive kit failing. These are thin strips of double sided tape, whereas the original Apple adhesive kit has a double layer of foam between the 2 tape layers. When the foam is under compression it allows the adhesive to properly contact the entire panel and case edge.

I would personally avoid any re-stuck iMac that doesn't use a foam-centered adhesive.

3m makes the double sided foam tape. I used it on my car to attach a door edge guard on my car doors. Rain, snow, 95 Fahrenheit to negative 30 Fahrenheit. That stuff STICKS!

 

[tornado99]

Just a quick thought... You state that the monitor is incredibly important, listing specific PPI and nits of brightness, etc. Definitely it's a fabulous monitor, but if this is just a spare machine sitting in a room in a second family property, does it really matter all that much? Would a MacMini and a nicer qHD screen or something similar not be enough for that scenario?

Unfortunately Apple has turned me into a total monitor snob! I do intend to work on the machine quite a few hours, and even qHD displays are not good enough for me!

Nothing particularly new here. See the classic (Roman) latin phrase: Caveat emptor! Since the dawn of time, buyers have always had to be careful about what they buy. It's on buyers to do the work to be sure they are getting what they think they are buying.

What I would ADD to your post though is that some people buy these to then do the cheap conversion to make themselves an ASD-like monitor...

Most of the money in his headline is for the Mac... so as pricing slides, these 5K Retina "monitors" are getting even cheaper for those willing to convert them.

An ALT consideration for you is to perhaps do the same and pair it with maybe a new/refurb Silicon Mac Mini or get yourself a MB and link it to it when there to use it like a desktop.

Personally, I struggle with the whole OCLP approach, which is basically using a third party hack to install updated macOS versions... when one of the biggest reasons to do the latter is to protect against hacks. I always wonder how secure OCLP Macs are and I own a few older Macs that COULD run latest macOS if I opted to go that way myself.

For the value minded, that idea of pairing a homemade 5K monitor (via an iMac hardware hack) and then a later model Mac Mini or MB may be worth some consideration... instead of leaning on OCLP.

OR Option 2: Install Windows 10 and let that light/occasional use iMac run as a PC. Windows reaches back further than macOS to support older hardware... and security updates are frequent. No low level layer hack necessary.

Absolutely. I think I would have the skills to pull that off, but sadly not the time.

3m makes the double sided foam tape. I used it on my car to attach a door edge guard on my car doors. Rain, snow, 95 Fahrenheit to negative 30 Fahrenheit. That stuff STICKS!

I've seen reports of even 3M VHB falling off. I guess you need to match the exact thickness etc. that Apple uses.

 

[Andrey84]

So I'm hunting for a 2nd hand 21.5" Retina iMac, 2017 or 2019, to be used as my second computer in a family property I visit occasionally. I intend to run Sonoma via OCLP.

These are the things I've noticed so far:

• There are loads of old iMacs on ebay and refurbisher websites. The 2017 iMacs especially are dropping in price like crazy now. This is amazing for people like me who just want to do light tasks on a razor-sharp bright screen. Try buying a 218 ppi 500 nits monitor less than 27". You can't.
• There seems to be a trend of going through the painful process of opening up the iMac, only to install the lowest quality SATA SSD possible from a totally unknown brand. I even found a shop that does this with all their Macs 🤷‍♂️ Good luck when a year after buying a "refurb" iMac the garbage SSD fails. They could have literally spent $20 more on a Crucial MX500 for a solid upgrade.
• Many sellers have no idea what "SSD" means, or the difference between SATA or NVME. Hence you'll find 1TB Fusion iMacs advertised for more than 256GB NVME iMacs.
• Some sellers upgrade the iMac themselves and use a variety of creative solutions to stick the screen back on. My favourite - "I'm a Mac tech and I used 3M tape". Good luck when your screen falls off a few months later 😆
• Some sellers are "refurbing" a non-retina 2015/2017 iMac by maxing it out to 32GB RAM + 2TB SATA SSD. and then selling it for more than a retina iMac. They curiously don't mention the resolution of the display anywhere on the advert, but you can usually tell from the processor.

Of course most of this is because a lot of people who own/buy/sell iMacs are technically illiterate, but it still surprised me how careful you need to be to get what you want.

These are interesting observations
I've actually just sold a 2017 iMac on eBay. You are right, people are dumping them now en masse, hence the price drop.
We had the base spec 27", but 64GB RAM + 2TB Samsung EVO SATA SSD instead of the fusion thingy, and I'm very happy it went for £499 + postage.

 

[tornado99]

These are interesting observations
I've actually just sold a 2017 iMac on eBay. You are right, people are dumping them now en masse, hence the price drop.
We had the base spec 27", but 64GB RAM + 2TB Samsung EVO SATA SSD instead of the fusion thingy, and I'm very happy it went for £499 + postage.

I've actually picked up a 2nd hand 2017 iMac now, 21.5", original Apple NVME, 8GB, - £240. That's actually the same price as a 24 inch QHD monitor from Dell, but a far superior screen.

Very happy with it so far. Smooth on all the text-based tasks I am doing. Fine also for coding and light photo editing.

Not totally convinced by throwing lots of RAM in these machines. In the end the 4-core processor is the real limitation compared to modern machines, although obviously certain audio/photo/video tasks will need the extra memory.

2nd hand M1 iMacs are sitting around £750-£800 right now. Too high for a 2nd machine.

Oh - and one issue - on a white background I see very faint pink fringing around the screen edges. Apparently this is inevitable on every intel iMac Apple made from 2012-2019 after a few years. In normal use it's barely perceptible.