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Homy

macrumors 68020
Original poster
Jan 14, 2006
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Now you can try D3DMetal. That may be the best option to play this game, and possibly other DirectX11 games that have been ported to Mac using openGL, like Alien Isolation, Shadow of Mordor.

Ok, I too installed Sonoma and tried a few games.
I'm happy to report that Alien Isolation runs ok at native retina resolution on my 14" MacBook Pro, with base M1 Pro GPU (14 cores). I haven't tried the flame thrower or anything, but on a "standard" section of a level, it seems fluid. Maybe 30 fps, which is ok for this type of slow-paced game on a ProMotion display. If only the Steam fps counter worked. There is a bit of stuttering at certain points, which I suppose is due to shader compilation and is unrelated to graphical quality.
Settings were mostly high, antialiasing was disabled (not needed at this resolution) and I even turned on SSAO. The SSAO bug appears to be gone, since SSAO didn't have much impact on performance. Apple appears to have improved openGL support with Sonoma.
The windows version of the game would not run with D3DMetal (Whisky). It crashes when loading (the menu works though.

I tried RoTR with D3DMetal. It's about 25% slower than the Metal version, and shows more stuttering, but it's playable.
CS2 appears to work with the -nojoy parameter, again with some stuttering. I wouldn't play it competitively.

So you took the plunge too? It’s as if a new world opens up in front of you. Mac games run better and many games that didn’t work in Crossover now work. With Monterey I got black screen due to Unreal Engine and lack of geometry shader support. Now all those games seem to work and many new. With the enhanced performance of Mac games in Sonoma it’s as if I’ve suddenly got a few extra GPU cores.

Unfortunately neither of the OpenGL games works with D3DMetal in Crossover despite using DX 11. Sleeping Dogs and Mad Max crash or freeze and Shadow of Mordor shows heavily flickering graphics already in the menus making it impossible to test. To be fair it was the same problems in Crossover with both DXVK and Wine so I suspect it’s 23.5 that has broken the games. Shadow of Mordor worked in 22 but Mad Max had the same freeze problem even before. The only game that works in Crossover 23.5 with DXVK or Wine is Sleeping Dogs.

Regarding Alien Isolation you may be right. In Monterey at 3200x1800 I get stuttering and around 13 fps with Shadow Mapping at Ultra and SSAO off in the very first scene when I look around the room. With SSAO on I get about 9 fps so it’s very visible. In Sonoma with both settings on max I hardly feel the stuttering and with Shadow Mapping on high and SSAO on it feels quite smooth like 25-30 fps. It feels like 50% better performance so the SSAO bug is gone and Apple appears to have updated something related to OpenGL despite deprecating it. In Crossover I still get the black screen as shown before.

Even Shadow of Mordor is faster in Sonoma than Monterey. At 1440p high 21.5% better perfromance. At 1800p/1917p high/ultra 25% better perfromance. Notice that in Sonoma the res was 3400x1917 for some reason which is higher than 3200x1800 in Monterey. Yet even with higher res I got 25% better performance.

1440p High Monterey vs Sonoma
High 2023-10-08 kl. 06.10.09.png
High 2023-10-08 kl. 04.16.11.png


1800p Ultra Monterey vs 1917p Ultra Sonoma
Ultra 2023-10-08 kl. 06.00.46.png
Ultra 2023-10-08 kl. 04.25.58.png


Shadow of Mordor works in Crossover on Monterey but despite very high frame rates on some settings it suffers from massive stuttering in the benchmark test. It’s worst with DXVK where the lows are around 3 fps at 1440p. Even at lowest settings at 1440p or even 720p you can’t get more than 12-14 fps as minimum. With only Wine it works a bit better but the lows are still around 16-17 fps at ultra to medium settings so you can’t get rid of the stuttering. Only at low min fps goes up to 55. So I’m going to play the Mac port in Sonoma for the lows there even at the highest res and settings never go under 24-25 so no stuttering in the Mac benchmark.

1440p High/Medium vs 720p Lowest Monterey Crossover 23.5 DXVK
High 2023-10-08 kl. 06.33.36.png
Lowest 2023-10-08 kl. 06.35.08.png
Lowest 2023-10-08 kl. 06.38.00.png


1440p High/Medium/Low Monterey Crossover 23.5 Wine
High 2023-10-08 kl. 06.53.00.png
Medium 2023-10-08 kl. 06.58.52.png
Low 2023-10-08 kl. 06.57.21.png


I tested Mad Max too which uses OpenGL like Alien Isolation. In Monterey I get 25-30 at max settings with VSYNC and Motion Blur off at 1800p (not 1440p as below). Like in Alien Isolation I chose the higher res to detect stuttering easier. In Monterey I feel the stuttering when it goes down to 25 when I run and jump around the beginning of the game with the injured dog but with the same max settings in Sonoma I don’t feel any stuttering so the performance is better there too like in Alien Isolation. So that’s another Mac port I’ll be playing in Sonoma.

Skärmavbild 2023-10-08 kl. 05.04.48.png
Skärmavbild 2023-10-08 kl. 05.05.09.png

Skärmavbild 2023-10-08 kl. 05.16.18.png


The only game that worked in Crossover 23.5 in Sonoma was Sleeping Dogs. As I wrote in Crossover the game had double the performance of the Mac port already in Monterey. In Sonoma the performance is slightly better but depends on the res. At some resolutions it's faster in Crossover in Monterey. Here are the fastest results:

1080p DXVK Sonoma 75,5 fps
Skärmavbild 2023-10-08 kl. 01.19.48.png


1440p Wine Monterey 64,4 fps
Skärmavbild 2023-10-06 kl. 07.18.13.png


1800p Wine Monterey 56,8 fps
Skärmavbild 2023-10-06 kl. 07.20.45.png


I’m also testing some Metal games so ”I’ll be back!”. ;)
 
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Irishman

macrumors 68040
Nov 2, 2006
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In internet terms, that's 2 day old news.

And, it's factually untrue. Whether or not it ever was a correct reflection of Valve's plans for CS 2 on the Mac, this statement "we have made the difficult decision to discontinue support for older hardware, including DirectX 9 and 32-bit operating systems. Similarly, we will no longer support macOS. Combined, these represented less than one percent of active CS:GO players." is false.
 

jeanlain

macrumors 68020
Mar 14, 2009
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I managed to get Alien Isolation to run under Whisky (game porting toolkit). It does work but with frequent stuttering. I could not compare the frame rates because the openGL version does not show the FPS counter, but it feels significantly smoother.

EDIT: to be clear, it's the openGL version that runs better. There can be some short hiccups due to shader compilation, but they only occur once. Even after restarting the Mac, areas that caused stuttering the first time no longer do. I suppose a shader cache is built somewhere. Which helps performance even in unvisited areas using these shaders I guess.
 
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Irishman

macrumors 68040
Nov 2, 2006
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I mean it plays using Whisky. It works, but as I mentioned elsewhere, it freezes frequently during fight.

You know that's not what "natively on Mac" means.

Now I have to apologize to Koudspeel for getting that wrong!

I guess I had that coming.
 
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jeanlain

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Mar 14, 2009
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You know that's not what "natively on Mac" means.
You asked whether I played via steaming or natively. Maybe you should have proposed all alternatives. I thought that for you, "natively", meant '"not streamed".
Of course it runs with a translation layer. How could I be the only one playing a Mac version of CS2 that Valve said will never come?
 
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Irishman

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Nov 2, 2006
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You asked whether I played via steaming or natively. Maybe you should have proposed all alternatives. I thought that for you, "natively", meant '"not streamed".
Of course it runs with a translation layer. How could I be the only one playing a Mac version of CS2 that Valve said will never come?

FFS! That was 10000000000000000% my fault for not assuming we shared the same understanding of what "natively" meant. Do you think that you've laid out "ALL alternatives" yourself? :rolleyes:

You don't know all alternatives any more than I do, buddy!
 

jeanlain

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Mar 14, 2009
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FFS! That was 10000000000000000% my fault for not assuming we shared the same understanding of what "natively"
Indeed it was. Is a Metal game using Rosetta native? What about MoltenVK? Or even openGL? Because these all use translation layers on Apple Silicon.
I'm not sure why you're mad. Everyone knows that there is no Mac version of CS2. I assumed you did.
 
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Irishman

macrumors 68040
Nov 2, 2006
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Indeed it was. Is a Metal game using Rosetta native? What about MoltenVK? Or even openGL? Because these all use translation layers on Apple Silicon.
I'm not sure why you're mad. Everyone knows that there is no Mac version of CS2. I assumed you did.

A game that you can double-click or right-click to run is native to me.

More effort required on the back end by the devs (not the players). That's native.

Games that require more effort than that by the players aren't native.

Don't you agree?

Finally, appealing to the majority with what "everyone know" is rhetorically sloppy, and isn't the slam dunk that you might have thought it was.
 

jeanlain

macrumors 68020
Mar 14, 2009
2,430
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A game that you can double-click or right-click to run is native to me.

More effort required on the back end by the devs (not the players). That's native.

Games that require more effort than that by the players aren't native.
I agree. But when you're asked whether a game that doesn't have a Mac version is played via streaming or natively, it's unclear what is meant by "natively".
 
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