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Garmin 965 and Ultra 2 Trail Runner update
- Thread starter dallison13
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Good point. How they handled their data breach two years ago was bad and not trustworthy.
And also: Garmin Connect is a real pain.
This, 100%
This, 100% x2
Outside of battery life, I am trying to understand what the Apple Watch is missing for runners. I can't quite figure it out. All I see is how precious battery life is, like okay I get it, and even that I feel is an overrrated problem. But to each their own I guess.
I too share concerns with data privacy. Garmin isn’t the best and I agree they poorly handled their data breach a couple of years ago.
I was tempted by the Coros Pace 3 but learned the Chinese Government gets access to your data (!!), I mean WTF?! Alarm bells everywhere.
What a world we live in.
I was tempted by the Coros Pace 3 but learned the Chinese Government gets access to your data (!!), I mean WTF?! Alarm bells everywhere.
What a world we live in.
Data is new gold, for ads, trolls, fake news, ai training...
A lot of companies are ready to sell their product at a ridiculously low price just to get your data.
But people also spread a lot of information by themselves.
A lot of companies are ready to sell their product at a ridiculously low price just to get your data.
But people also spread a lot of information by themselves.
Training status, training effect, training load and suggested workouts tied to upcoming races (when I’m taking a break from being coached) are useful for me.
Chiming in here as something that has both an Epix Pro and an AWU2 and hopes to rationalize to just 1 device. Also training for my 7th Ironman triathlon.
I also like some of the Garmin stats and reporting (training load & effect are 2 I like), but I actually have found compelling alternatives such as Superset Health. I've been training for my IM while wearing both for all activities & the trends on both the iOS apps such as SuperSet and Connect are extremely close. I've also found Superset gives me a good HRV trend value as well.
Honestly, I'm still not sure which I will end up keeping and which I will sell, but I'm ever so slightly leaning to the AWU2.
The primary downside, battery life, really doesn't hit me that hard as I work and train from home 95% of the time so keeping my battery charged while at my desk for 45-60 minutes a day is not a bother at all.
I absolutely love that the AWU2 heart rate data is as-good as my chest-strap (HRM Pro Plus) that I am forced to use with the Epic Pro as the OHR for the wrist does not do nearly a good enough job.
Swim HR on the AWU2 is good enough, the HRM-swim paired to the Epix Pro is definitely better, but also significantly more of a PITA to wear for swimming.
Strength training is the other place I am shocked at the AWU2 HR accuracy as so much more reliable than the OHR on the Epix Pro.
One thing I strongly prefer on the Epix Pro is the screen customization options for structured run workouts based on HR or Power Zones. On the Garmin you get a gauge visual showing you the intended range and your current as a tick mark. It's fantastic. The AWU gives you notifications & haptics, but I miss the gas gauge style indicator for target zone.
Great feedback. Thanks!
I've got a similar setup – Forerunner 965 and AWU2 – but primarily run marathons and not triathlons.
I've looked at Superset, but rely more on HRV4Training than Garmin for recovery data. (I think Garmin relies too heavily on sleep data, which is not very good.) Do you have Superset calculate recovery with a morning breathe session or with overnight HRV readings? I've tried both.
I very loosely follow Garmin's suggested workouts, but haven't looked into Superset's "Strain" numbers to know if they would work for me. I've been reluctant to sign up for another subscription service, which is one of the reasons keeping me in the Garmin ecosystem. I've also been importing my runs and rides into the COROS app and appreciate it's simplicity.
None of the charging/battery issues with Apple bother me as I've kept an old S7 Graphite that I can wear while the AWU2 charges. In fact, I wear the S7 pretty regularly.
Also, I'll add that I much prefer Garmin's screen customization for workouts, but when I'm racing (for a non-specific finish time) I tend to rely merely on Apple's HR and rolling pace data. It just makes for a more enjoyable experience.
I don’t think I’m at the recommendation stage for Superset yet. I’ve subscribed to that and Athlytic currently & enjoying reviewing them + Garmin. My Epix Pro/Garmin Training readiness (effectively ‘recovery’ in Superset or Athlytic parlance) has always felt very accurate - for the past 30 days I’ve noted my own ”expected readiness” before I check morning report or iOS apps as an additional parameter to review.
Superset has been tracking to that same metric for very well - Athlytic not as much. I did a little digging (you may have done this also) but there are 2 primary ways for HRV Calcs and Garmin/Whoop/Superset use one method and Athlytic uses the other. Some say the G/W/S way is a better metric when using HRV for recovery. I do not know the science, but I can confirm my experiment, for me, thus far is definitely evidencing that SS and Garmin do a pretty good job of assessing how I feel. I like that.
TOTALLY agree with you on the screen customizatio - my complaint is definitely just for structured workouts. For anything else I really enjoy the simplicity of the Apple Watch’s data presentation.
Oh, I do not use the mindfulness trick - I do have afib history turned, which adds more HRV readings overnight and supposedly adds accuracy to HRV-based recovery metrics.
I get all this with Athlytic, Training Today and Stryd. And in my experience is actually more precise and accurate than my Garmin ever was, likely because the sensors are more accurate. Again I fail to see what it’s missing even with albeit third party apps.
Did use that long time and agree. Now I use the Apple Training app and I find that app also very good. They made huge progress with watchOS 9.
Concerning the training status stuff: my experience with Garmin was rather bad. They did not even do cross checks of their values. Not even speaking of their empty promise to create a holistic view over their devices ("Physio True Up").
Find the combination of runalyze and Athlythic a lot more believable.
Was wondering recently why there is no provider yet which can do a real adaptation of a training plan (either bought or self created) based on your physiological measurements and also your time constraints. That for me is the hardest part where most of the errors are being made. Knowing that I need recovery is not much help, but learning how to adapt my weekly plan for this would be helpful. Also, adapting paces according to your real capability is a thing, Stryd has something in this direction but all is very basic still.
Depends on what you are training for. There are multiple AI based training plan apps.
I use HumanGo. It sends run, bike, swim, and strength structured workouts to my watch. My watch sends the results + my vitals to HumanGo. The HumanGo plan recalculated based on observation & request.
I don’t find Athlytic or Training Today to be partucularly accurate, and I ditched my Stryd after that last generation of Garmin GPS sensors (and the AWU GPS) became more reliable.
Superset seems to have potential.
I have friends that recommended HumanGo and it looks quite good. Do the recalculations take into account recovery, HRV, etc., or are they primarily based on how you performed prior workouts?
Can’t say I can say well enough. I’m on week 6 of using it after being … human coached.
It’s definitely sent me Sunday messages giving me actually personalized feedback on my weekly metrics and target zone compliance. It reduced intensity of an upcoming week after I went too hard on a weekend long ride compared to its plan for a zone 2 ride. That was pretty cool to see it do that (and it was right). But how in depth it’s researching my vitals (which it has), don’t know. I haven’t seen a plan intensity/volume change message due to bad vitals yet… but I’ve also been fortunately pretty dialed in lately.
The app itself is … meh at best, I prefer the web version for anything other than referencing what my workout is.
Thanks. That’s helpful.
One thing I like about Garmin‘s suggested workouts tied to upcoming races is that for base and recovery days I can either opt for running or cycling. It’s gives options for both. How does HumanGo handle these?
Thanks for sharing this, cool.
Does HumanGo allow creating an own plan or is everything calculated?
You can infinitely tweak the plan it makes for you. Sometimes it will give me a week day ride that’s too long for what I have available to a last minute schedule change, I edit the work and it has scale down and up options or you can replace the workout to another one it has based on target zone, duration, or intensity. If anything, the ability to self tweak it is probably my absolute favorite feature.
Re: the question above about sport options for certain days. Yes, the calculated plan references your “My Availability” which you can set per Overall Plan, Plan Periodizations, Per week, and all the way to per day where needed.
Example is last week my pool was closed for renovations. I unchecked swimming as an option for those days and asked it to recalculate my week. Boom.
You’d basically do the reverse and for recovery weeks (periods) you would check the cycling box to allow it as an option for that period or specific days in that period.
Living in Denmark where it’s get cold during the winter, I much prefer Garmins buttons, especially when wearing gloves. The AWU2 is (in my opinion) much harder to use.This, 100%
This, 100% x2
Outside of battery life, I am trying to understand what the Apple Watch is missing for runners. I can't quite figure it out. All I see is how precious battery life is, like okay I get it, and even that I feel is an overrrated problem. But to each their own I guess.
Another thing is regarding results. When finishing a race, I can’t edit the finish time on my AWU, as on my Garmin. On Garmin I adjust it to my result, and I can see the progress over years.
I’ve also noticed when finishing a half marathon, it already gives a medal after 20k, and not the 21.1k. It screws up my time.
It doesn’t make sense 🤷🏽♂️
Same here for the buttons in hot climates. The screen becomes completely unusable when wet from sweat or rain and the digital crown + action button only gets you so far in controlling the watch whereas with Garmin buttons you can control everything with them. I've had the watch skip through a whole workout because of sweat or rain and now I always enable water lock during workouts.
This, 100%
This, 100% x2
Outside of battery life, I am trying to understand what the Apple Watch is missing for runners. I can't quite figure it out. All I see is how precious battery life is, like okay I get it, and even that I feel is an overrrated problem. But to each their own I guess
It'd be nice to be able to undo a lap/segment if you accidentally press the action button or double tap the screen.
For the native workout app you can't get the current split, segment, or interval pace as a custom data field for custom/structured workouts. Interval pace is available on the default screen, but that screen can't be customized so I'm always using a different data screen where interval pace isn't available. This makes no sense.
Also, I've noticed that the pace on AW when it comes to intervals, whether they're distance or time based, tends to be way off (usually high) at the start of the interval but ends up aligning with the actual pace later on in the interval. Makes it hard to reliably use for pace-based workouts, especially shorter intervals.
Some of these can be worked around with 3rd party apps but in general the AW misses a lot of the small things that make it a complete running/sport watch IMO.
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As you say, 3rd party apps are here to offer you exactly what you want, everyone can find an app which fits.
It’s the main advantage of a « smart » watch : you are not locked to watch builder choices.
It’s like for smartphones vs feature phones, nobody worries about installing apps. I don’t understand why people buy Apple Watches and are so reluctant to install 3rd party apps …
It’s the main advantage of a « smart » watch : you are not locked to watch builder choices.
It’s like for smartphones vs feature phones, nobody worries about installing apps. I don’t understand why people buy Apple Watches and are so reluctant to install 3rd party apps …
I ran Copenhagen Marathon today, and my AWU 2 and Garmin both get the same time (me trying to push all buttons and the end 😉), although Apple congratulates me for doing it in 3.07.18, but the time (as recorded) is 3.12.21.
Attachments
Congratulations! Excellent result, very strong.
Any idea where this 3.07 could be from? Eg when exporting to Strava or runalyze?
Also please submit a bug report to Apple, thanks.
Agree the Action Button was the last piece - now I can water lock the display if it's raining and press the action button to start open run, and again when GPS has locked. And both buttons to pause when finished and go back inside. Game changer for the AW.
Heard a guy saying, that the fact he had to press action+side button to pause the workout, was a deal breaker. So can't please every one
I think you should optionally be able to change the action button from lap marking to pause and start. It’s not a huge deal, but many people don’t need laps/segments.