Google CEO Calls FBI's Request for Apple Backdoor 'A Troubling Precedent'

[jlc1978]

FBI ultimately wants a backdoor to everything, and it shocks me how so many are indifferent about that.
Why isn't the 4th amendment as passionately protected as the 2nd amendment?

Because guns don't kill people but passwords do...

People are all for goring someone else's ox but when it becomes their turn they start yelling and screaming "Government overreach...." jack booted thugs" "Obama"

I would guess most people don't think about how they would be affected by the actions; they see it as something that only affects the other guy. In the Apple case, the other guy is a bad guy and thus doing it is good; they do not realize that one day someone will decide they are the "bad guy" and do it to them.

To paraphrase Einstein, only the universe and hypocrisy are infinite, and I'm not sure about the universe...

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CNN was on this evening. As soon as The Donald appeared I switched to Andy Griffith. Wanted someone intelligent like Barney Fife.

At least you could trust Barney with a bullet...

 

[BruceEBonus]

This - from the very same man who made the profound and incredibly moving statement that terrorism is "really horrible" ...

 

[ThunderSkunk]

FBI ultimately wants a backdoor to everything, and it shocks me how so many are indifferent about that.
Why isn't the 4th amendment as passionately protected as the 2nd amendment?

There is not an aspect of the 4th amendment that has not been legislated away.
Thank your elected republicans and democrats. Just yet another way that this outdated election and leadership model becomes less relevant and more catastrophic as time goes by.

 

[Gasu E.]

Why does Obama want to take away your privacy?

Typical right-wing spin. Obama is doing nothing here. He's just standing by and letting the FBI do it's job (and I am a supporter of Apple and Google's position, to be clear). You COULD criticize Obama, with justification, for not opposing what the FBI is trying to do; he clearly is avoiding taking a position on this, and avoiding throwing himself into the controversy. Politicians do "occasionally" avoid taking a stand on an issue; Congress has successfully spent the last six years avoiding taking a stand on any issue other than "we're against Obama."

If you want to call out a politician, then please go after the ones who are actively and publicly supporting the FBI's and the courts positions. Trump comes to mind as he has been so visible. Trump has demonstrated once again he favors an overbearing government in support of what he The Donald personally thinks is right; whether it is breaking into the phones of terrorists, or seizing private property through eminent domain to build a parking lot for his hotel.

 

[duffman9000]

Don't be naive. You expect that Apple would do this, unlock the phone and then say to the FBI "We're going to delete this software now." and the FBI is going to say "go ahead."

Once it exists, they will make sure it stays. You are awfully trusting of a government that has demonstrated it's predilection to surveil you and then lie about it.

It's like doing a favor for the mafia. It never ends. I really hope Apple continuously audits and improves this area of security. I hope we reach a day (if not already there) where Apple says it can't be done. Oh you want to look at iOS source? No. We will give you a high level over view on campus and no you can't walk out with any slides.

 

[zioxide]

There is a long established global precedent that law enforcemnet can obtain a search warrant for your property. A mobile phone or your email account is just the same.

Apple, Google, Twitter, Facebook are blocking legitimate law enforcement whilst hiding behind libertairian arguments. What they really care about is profit and are willing to allow terrorists and pedophiles to operate beyond the law to pursue it.
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Any law enforcemnet agency in the world can "take away your privacy" with a search warrant of your home. This request to Apple is no different

It's clear you don't understand the technology at hand or the implications.

A search warrant is an antiquated concept that doesn't fit in a digital world. There is no way for Apple to help the FBI in this one case without compromising the integrity and security of the entire iOS platform.

"Maybe we might save a few lives" is not a good reason to put the 700+ million worldwide users of iOS at immense risk of identity theft and other hackers.

 

[duffman9000]

Because people are lazy and never got that far reading!

Sad because it's true. I think people forget that these rights are valuable even if you don't use them. Like that 19th amendment. I'm not a woman but I would have fought and died for that one too.

 

[8692574]

Sad because it's true. I think people forget that these rights are valuable even if you don't use them. Like that 19th amendment. I'm not a woman but I would have fought and died for that one too.

Even more sad and true is the fact that most of the people think only about themselves, all the "I have nothing to hide" crowd are part of them, you know, if it doesn't affect me then it's right to do it kinda attitude?

Lucky for us there are still people that fight for rights, even if it is not theirs!

 

[JohnGrey]

If this whole situation is a matter that is important to you, let people on your social media know what the FBI is trying to do. #AppleUnchained

 

[zioxide]

Even more sad and true is the fact that most of the people think only about themselves, all the "I have nothing to hide" crowd are part of them, you know, if it doesn't affect me then it's right to do it kinda attitude?

Easy way to defeat the "nothing to hide" crowd's argument:

Tell them if they have nothing to hide, they should have no problem posting all their personal information (SSN, bank account numbers, etc) all over Facebook.

If they don't want to, then point out that they do have something to hide.

 

[8692574]

Easy way to defeat the "nothing to hide" crowd's argument:

Tell them if they have nothing to hide, they should have no problem posting all their personal information (SSN, bank account numbers, etc) all over Facebook.

If they don't want to, then point out that they do have something to hide.

They probably already do along with how many time they went to the bathroom today, people share more than they think and would want to, we have to stop this discussion is getting sadder by the post and I am losing the already small faith i have in the human kind!

 

[RickInHouston]

The FBI wants access to this one phone's user data.

Can apple provide access to this one particular phone without caving in and giving them want they truly want is a pipeline to ALL phones?

 

[zioxide]

The FBI wants access to this one phone's user data.

Can apple provide access to this one particular phone without caving in and giving them want they truly want is a pipeline to ALL phones?

No.

Some people will claim it could be done if they built a cracking app tied to the specific device UUID.

The problem with that is inevitably that codebase could fall into the wrong hands, then be reverse engineered to be able to be used on any iOS device.

It's a situation where the potential gains do not even come close to the immense risk this would pose.

 

[scoobydoo99]

At this moment, I have no reason to believe Google would have said no as Apple did.

Agreed. Pichai's statement that it's okay to hack phones based on "valid legal orders" is very nebulous. Notice he didn't say "Court Order". That's because Google will divulge customers' private data to ANY law enforcement entity ON REQUEST. That's what they consider a "valid legal order". He says it COULD BE a troubling precedent. Really? Also, his tweet "Looking forward to a thoughtful and open discussion on this important issue" pretty much indicates he is ready to lay down and roll over for the government. Anyone who would imply that you can have an "open discussion" with oppressive government forces is just being offensive.

 

[mikecorp]

telephones do not kill people, but guns bought in Wall-mart.

if FBI want to unlock his iPhone, They should chop off his finger and be done with it.

 

[vrDrew]

Can apple provide access to this one particular phone without caving in and giving them want they truly want is a pipeline to ALL phones?

Thats a technical question probably only answerable to people very deep inside Apple. But, as others have noted, once the tools to crack the phone are created (assuming they can be) there is always the possibility they will get into the wrong hands.

Actually, the real risk here is not for this specific generation of iPhones. The problem Apple sees is the precedent set by the Supreme Court (yeah, those guys again) with their decision in US v. New York Telephone
which required telephone companies to create the so-called "pen register" - a written record of every phone number dialed. Even from phones that were never associated with any criminal activity whatsoever. Basically in that case the Government argued (and won) that private companies should cooperate by building in technical means by which they could in the future cooperate with future investigations.

Apple (and Google, etc.) are concerned that (regardless of whether the FBI gets any data out of this current model phone) - that they will be required to install tools and/or backdoors into any future phones and operating systems. And thats a case that would, in all likelihood be argued all the way to the Supreme Court. Because the sort of data contained on a smartphone is far more detailed - and private - than a simple list of phone numbers called. I'm sure the Government will use all sorts of scary references to terrorists and evil geniuses in its case. But ultimately it comes down to a stunning risk to privacy and security if they prevail.

 

[scoobydoo99]

Typical right-wing spin. Obama is doing nothing here. He's just standing by and letting the FBI do it's job (and I am a supporter of Apple and Google's position, to be clear). You COULD criticize Obama, with justification, for not opposing what the FBI is trying to do; he clearly is avoiding taking a position on this, and avoiding throwing himself into the controversy. Politicians do "occasionally" avoid taking a stand on an issue; Congress has successfully spent the last six years avoiding taking a stand on any issue other than "we're against Obama."

If you want to call out a politician, then please go after the ones who are actively and publicly supporting the FBI's and the courts positions. Trump comes to mind as he has been so visible. Trump has demonstrated once again he favors an overbearing government in support of what he The Donald personally thinks is right; whether it is breaking into the phones of terrorists, or seizing private property through eminent domain to build a parking lot for his hotel.

I must disagree. Obama is dangerous because he is a conservative masquerading as a centrist. He opposes clemency for Snowden, supports NSA spying, orders worldwide drone assasinations on foreign soil, etc. At least George W. was open about being a Constitution-trashing homicidal maniac. Obama does the same thing, but stealthily.

 

[iOSFangirl6001]

Once again I say hats off to Cook. Alas unbending was likely not the best choice of words **cue Bendgate scandal BS resurfacing ( sighs ) at least this thread is limited to commenters in the 100+ club **



Anyway actions speak louder than words and whilst it's nice to hear Google openly take this stance not so convinced this stance is honest and carries enough weight yet. That said to each their own thoughts and opinions...

I imagine more tech companies will speak out in support of Apple on this issue.

One would hope.

Nice, let's hope Apple holds strong and stands their ground now that Google is with them.

Why wouldn't Apple stayed strong at least until the point the Feds turn the pressure up to an 11 out of 10 or higher to a point that Apple is forced to cave or else.

So far they've stayed the course. So yea #StandFirm Apple

With the specifics on what they want Apple to do, it becomes crystal clear on how readily that would allow others to gain entry into Apple Devices. *sighs*

Yea pretty much. I still can't fathom how some ( many ) even after this level of clarity think this is no big deal. Maybe they'd care more if their device was the one that the Feds wanted this rogue iOS version created for and installed on.

FBI ultimately wants a backdoor to everything, and it shocks me how so many are indifferent about that.
Why isn't the 4th amendment as passionately protected as the 2nd amendment?

Yea... And because reasons and some people have some skewed views to put it nicely

 

[usarioclave]

Typical right-wing spin. Obama is doing nothing here..

Obama, as head of the executive branch and the person ultimately responsible for the FBI, can set priorities and smack the FBI down on a case-by-case basis. While he may pay a political price to do so, it's completely within his authority to do so.

Those who don't want to believe that are fooling themselves and giving their guy a pass. And indeed, the White House chimed in on the FBI's side, so your guy already validated the FBI position.

Why did Silicon Valley give all that money to the Democrats again? So they could get screwed?

 

[MacCubed]

telephones do not kill people, but guns bought in Wall-mart.

if FBI want to unlock his iPhone, They should chop off his finger and be done with it.

It's a 5c

 

[winston1236]

This is a critical juncture. If Apple yields on this, then there is no telling how far governments (of the United States, or other, more nefarious, governments) will embed themselves into their citizens' electronic lives. We may trust the government's intention this time, but who knows how a future government will use this tool?

Exactly, it's just like the Patriot Act which was marketed as an anti-terrorism law but is used primarily in domestic non-terrorism related cases all the time.

 

[WissMAN]

So this special iOS the FBI wants Apple to build would only work on a 5c series (or older) iPhone.

Newer Apple phones, starting with iPhone 5S, have a special, separate processor that handles passcodes and fingerprints, which is called Secure Enclave.

These newer iPhones with the SE chip detects this exact course of action and would not accept the special compromised iOS. In fact, the 10 strikes your wiped and the delay process is no longer in the iOS, rather, it is in the SE chip - making the iOS change irrelevant.

My personal thought is why doesn't the FBI take the iPhone to Apple and say, "please download all the data from this one phone". Of course the precedent is set... The FBI keeps coming back for "just one more iPhone".

But as stated, with the hardware upgrades of the iPhone 5s (and newer), this is a moot point. It absolutely cannot be done the way it's being described for the iPhone 5s and newer series.

I guess the FBI is lucky it is not a 6... At least they could Make the request with a iPhone 5c.

I wonder how many 5c and older iPhones are out there.

 

[HEK]

So this special iOS the FBI wants Apple to build would only work on a 5c series (or older) iPhone.

Newer Apple phones, starting with iPhone 5S, have a special, separate processor that handles passcodes and fingerprints, which is called Secure Enclave.

These newer iPhones with the SE chip detects this exact course of action and would not accept the special compromised iOS. In fact, the 10 strikes your wiped and the delay process is no longer in the iOS, rather, it is in the SE chip - making the iOS change irrelevant.

My personal thought is why doesn't the FBI take the iPhone to Apple and say, "please download all the data from this one phone". Of course the precedent is set... The FBI keeps coming back for "just one more iPhone".

But as stated, with the hardware upgrades of the iPhone 5s (and newer), this is a moot point. It absolutely cannot be done the way it's being described for the iPhone 5s and newer series.

I guess the FBI is lucky it is not a 6... At least they could Make the request with a iPhone 5c.

I wonder how many 5c and older iPhones are out there.

Also lucky this phone is using ios7

 

[aaronvan]

Good to see Apple and Google joining forces to resist Obama's totalitarian, unconstitutional attempt to rule by fiat.

 

[AZREOSpecialist]

The government has no right to order Apple to do this, and I support Apple and every other company on earth fighting such orders all the way to the Supreme Court if that's what it takes. Maybe the FBI should knock on the door of the NSA for some assistance...
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Good to see Apple and Google joining forces to resist Obama's totalitarian, unconstitutional attempt to rule by fiat.

What on earth does this have to do with Obama? Obama doesn't run the FBI.