Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

leman

macrumors Core
Oct 14, 2008
19,318
19,336
So far from what I've read, benchmarks are not backing up your statement. The SB is faster then the 13" MBP.

I wrote "are going to use" ;) I am talking about the new Skylake iGPUs for mobile dual-cores which are not yet on the market. The Iris 550 in these CPUs is going to perform close to the level of HD6200. Given that the performance difference between SB and HD6100 in current MBP is around 50-100%, the Iris 550 will come sufficiently close. Sure, SB is still likely to be faster, but I doubt that there will be a substantial difference, at least for professional applications. As far as gaming goes, both are on the lower end, and both will offer similar experience, but SB might still be a notch better.
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,627
43,623
I see, sorry for the misunderstanding. I'll have to wait and see on that.

As it stands the SurfaceBook is faster then the MBP. Nothing surprising there in part because its a new computer and the MBP is not. When the MBP is updated, it will be the new computer and the SB will be the old one (relatively speaking).
 

leman

macrumors Core
Oct 14, 2008
19,318
19,336
As it stands the SurfaceBook is faster then the MBP. Nothing surprising there in part because its a new computer and the MBP is not. When the MBP is updated, it will be the new computer and the SB will be the old one (relatively speaking).

I still would like to see some proper benchmarks. There is no doubt that the dGPU-SB is faster than the MB (that is obviously expected). But I still have no idea about the SSD speeds, the WiFi and so on. I'd like to see both some productivity benchmarks and more isolated benchmarks. The media coverage of SB has been mostly sensationalist, I haven' seen a scientific benchmark yet.
 

fieldsphotos

macrumors 6502
Aug 15, 2013
274
109
To include a dGPU, Microsoft has to use a heavily down clocked custom configuration of an Nvidia chip. Apple don't need to add a dGPU to compete — the Intel iGPUs that they are going to use in their 13" line will basically be just as fast.



There was never ever a dGPU option with any 13" MBP. And Apple is moving to integrated because the integrated are just as good performance-wise. They will completely drop the dGPU once the dGPU becomes obsolete — which will most likely happen within a decade or so.

In 2008 you could get a 13" with an Nvidia dGPU: https://support.apple.com/kb/SP500?locale=en_US

I believe up until the 2011 refresh the 13 came with the dGPU
 

leman

macrumors Core
Oct 14, 2008
19,318
19,336
In 2008 you could get a 13" with an Nvidia dGPU: https://support.apple.com/kb/SP500?locale=en_US

I believe up until the 2011 refresh the 13 came with the dGPU

Its not a dGPU, its an iGPU. One of the first relatively iGPUs of course, but still an iGPU. The 9400M was kind of a revolution in the GPU market, because it was the first integrated GPU that didn't completely suck. Still, dedicated options back then were much faster. Nowadays, Intel has pretty much killed the low-tier dGPUs, because their integrated solutions are simply faster than a low-range dedicated GPU. And now its encroaching on the mid-range as well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: fieldsphotos

jmgregory1

macrumors 68040
So true, i don't get the cult like following of the MBA its not a machine i would ever contemplate buying.

I would agree with the 11" MBA, but the 13" MBA was ahead of it's time in design, speed, size. I worked on a 2011 13" MBA and absolutely loved it. Going from a 15" 2007 MBP, the weight savings and speed were just something few other laptops could even come close to.

I still have the MBA, but moved to a 15" rMBP as my daily driver, mainly for the larger screen. When I pick up the MBA, it's still amazing that Apple was able to get it to be so thin and light, but sturdy as hell. The lack of a high res screen was certainly part of how they did it. I'd like to see a 15" rMB, as my next computer. I don't really need the horsepower of the rMBP, but the 12" screen of the MB is just too small for me.
 

Tfosorcim

macrumors newbie
Aug 16, 2014
20
3
Chicago
I received my Surface Book yesterday. I'm speechless. This thing is the future,
makes my Macs look obsolete. Not old, but prehistoric old. Incredible.

Photoshop runs like a charm. 16GB of RAM, Nvidia card, 512 SSD, i7. Everything is seamless.
Tablet mode - perfect.

But the device itself is the most amazing. Screen can be detached easily, flipped, reattached.
Pen is as smooth as any Wacom. When in tablet mode, you can use writing recognition
and it WORKS! Anything, web addresses, passwords anything works. Switch to a virtual keyboard
if you want to. When we saw how great writing recognition works, our jaws dropped.

This is my first exciting laptop in ages, more than 10 years for sure.

Feels like the future. My previous comparable experience - first iPhone.

So sad to see Apple being so far behind. Even Windows 10 make OS X look very old...

Microsoft got the jump on Apple with the Surface. I have to admit I was a little envious of my colleague when he brought his Surface into work; particularly after the Windows 10 upgrade gave it an attractive, un-Windows-like interface. I still prefer (more like "need", for work) OS X, because of its UNIX backbone and my refusal to use clunky virtualization software to get access to Linux within Windows. But if Microsoft stays on this path (and Apple doesn't find a middle ground between tablet/laptop and w/full OSX as opposed to iOS), I imagine I'll eventually be making the move to Windows - at least - for my mobile platform. Unfortunately, I don't think that Apple will try to compete with the Surface right away(as I described with full OSX), as it'll likely hurt sales of multiple staples in their product line.
 

leman

macrumors Core
Oct 14, 2008
19,318
19,336
Microsoft got the jump on Apple with the Surface. I have to admit I was a little envious of my colleague when he brought his Surface into work; particularly after the Windows 10 upgrade gave it an attractive, un-Windows-like interface.

I am curious to hear your comment about Windows 10. I have been using it now for some of the Windows-only software and also for Windows software deployment and i don't really understand what the fuss is all about. Sure, its not as disorganised as Windows 8, but the search still does not work, the windows Explorer is abysmal for file management, and the stock support for different file formats is still pretty much non-existent despite improvements. They made a virtual desktop UI (finally), which is a complete joke because it lacks basic functionality like dragging windows between desktops. The entire system is still a dysfunctional mix and match between different UI styles (some system dialogs remaining essentially unchanged from Windows 95) and other stuff blatantly from OS X and KDE. I understand that for a Windows XP user, this seems like an improvement. But for a OS X user, who has had all these features (with much better functionality BTW), this surely must look like a sad joke.

Example of the dysfunctionality: if I go to the start menu and go tot he settings/network and internet, I have the option to look at the different connections. Not only is this menu organised in the least space-efficient manner possible (Ethernet connected, really, is that all you have to tell me?), but there are also other system dialogs that offer very similar functionality (networks and sharing center, anyone?), but are organised completely differently. Not only that, but some dialogs are not even accessible from the settings panel, like the above mentioned networks and sharing center. For instance, if i want to know the IP of my computer via the UI, I have a number of very different options which all involve sequences of clicks through a confusing number of buttons. In contrast, in OS X, I either go to Settings/Network (where it would automatically select the active connection for me), where the IP is conveniently written, or I simply option-click the menu bar icon to get all kinds of diagnostic information.

For me, the above illustrates the insurmountable gap between OS X and Windows: its about quality, attention to detail, and the will to do a proper job. Apple developers actually care about their system, and they try to make things logically consistent. Yes, they fail sometimes, the quality control of the software is not the best and the choices they make often annoy the hell out of us users. But Apple is following its vision and it is passionate about it. In contrast, Microsoft seems to aimlessly drop random stuff around, with little regard to coherency or artistic sense. I fail to see any significant difference between Windows 7 and Windows 10 and so far, I haven't obsessed a single feature in the new Windows that would make me even think about possibility to switching from OS X. Of course, your mileage might vary, but at least for me, there is not a single thing that Windows does better. It tries to emulate some of the things from OS X, but at least in my experience, the copy does not come any close to the original.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ulenspiegel

Badrottie

Suspended
May 8, 2011
4,317
336
Los Angeles
I received my Surface Book yesterday. I'm speechless. This thing is the future,
makes my Macs look obsolete. Not old, but prehistoric old. Incredible.

Photoshop runs like a charm. 16GB of RAM, Nvidia card, 512 SSD, i7. Everything is seamless.
Tablet mode - perfect.

But the device itself is the most amazing. Screen can be detached easily, flipped, reattached.
Pen is as smooth as any Wacom. When in tablet mode, you can use writing recognition
and it WORKS! Anything, web addresses, passwords anything works. Switch to a virtual keyboard
if you want to. When we saw how great writing recognition works, our jaws dropped.

This is my first exciting laptop in ages, more than 10 years for sure.

Feels like the future. My previous comparable experience - first iPhone.

So sad to see Apple being so far behind. Even Windows 10 make OS X look very old...


Hmm...nice I am happy for you but why are you here? We are not ready to switch back to Microsoft and you are telling us that our MacBooks are so far behind and El Capitan looks very OLD? Well I want to say thank you very much.
 

Ethosik

Contributor
Oct 21, 2009
7,832
6,762
I truly hope this is not the direction.
Also, I should add, while the SurfaceBook is faster with the dGPU, it's also $400 more than a similarly equipped 13" rMBP.
But competition is good and hopefully this will push Apple to perhaps 'think different' once again.

What is wrong with integrated GPUs other than games? Iris Pro can do 4K at 60hz. That is better than some dedicated GPUs that I have around. The Skylake Integrated GPU can power three 4K monitors.
 

TechZeke

macrumors 68020
Jul 29, 2012
2,455
2,289
Dallas, TX
I've seen this in person. Not sure how it makes MacBooks like dinosaurs when it looks like a rMBP with a thick screen and a weird hinge.

Beautiful device, but making MacBooks look like dinosaurs when it takes several design elements from the rMBP? This is like the textbook definition of hyperbole.
 

zhenya

macrumors 604
Jan 6, 2005
6,929
3,677
I am curious to hear your comment about Windows 10. I have been using it now for some of the Windows-only software and also for Windows software deployment and i don't really understand what the fuss is all about. Sure, its not as disorganised as Windows 8, but the search still does not work, the windows Explorer is abysmal for file management, and the stock support for different file formats is still pretty much non-existent despite improvements. They made a virtual desktop UI (finally), which is a complete joke because it lacks basic functionality like dragging windows between desktops. The entire system is still a dysfunctional mix and match between different UI styles (some system dialogs remaining essentially unchanged from Windows 95) and other stuff blatantly from OS X and KDE. I understand that for a Windows XP user, this seems like an improvement. But for a OS X user, who has had all these features (with much better functionality BTW), this surely must look like a sad joke.

Example of the dysfunctionality: if I go to the start menu and go tot he settings/network and internet, I have the option to look at the different connections. Not only is this menu organised in the least space-efficient manner possible (Ethernet connected, really, is that all you have to tell me?), but there are also other system dialogs that offer very similar functionality (networks and sharing center, anyone?), but are organised completely differently. Not only that, but some dialogs are not even accessible from the settings panel, like the above mentioned networks and sharing center. For instance, if i want to know the IP of my computer via the UI, I have a number of very different options which all involve sequences of clicks through a confusing number of buttons. In contrast, in OS X, I either go to Settings/Network (where it would automatically select the active connection for me), where the IP is conveniently written, or I simply option-click the menu bar icon to get all kinds of diagnostic information.

For me, the above illustrates the insurmountable gap between OS X and Windows: its about quality, attention to detail, and the will to do a proper job. Apple developers actually care about their system, and they try to make things logically consistent. Yes, they fail sometimes, the quality control of the software is not the best and the choices they make often annoy the hell out of us users. But Apple is following its vision and it is passionate about it. In contrast, Microsoft seems to aimlessly drop random stuff around, with little regard to coherency or artistic sense. I fail to see any significant difference between Windows 7 and Windows 10 and so far, I haven't obsessed a single feature in the new Windows that would make me even think about possibility to switching from OS X. Of course, your mileage might vary, but at least for me, there is not a single thing that Windows does better. It tries to emulate some of the things from OS X, but at least in my experience, the copy does not come any close to the original.

That's because Microsoft's primary focus has long been business and the enterprise which takes first priority, not design or aesthetic. I understand that it feels awkward that different menus use different styles, but the reason for that is so that the system administrators who manage these devices don't have to constantly learn where the different under the hood settings and controls have been moved to. I'm a big fan of what Windows is doing, just as I'm a fan of OS X and Apple and their design, but at work, I often breathe a sigh of relief when I go to fix something for someone and behind the new look, my old tools are still arranged just where I expect them. It's not a perfect solution, but there is sound reasoning behind it.
 

Steve121178

macrumors 603
Apr 13, 2010
6,440
7,111
Bedfordshire, UK
http://forums.windowscentral.com/mi...rosoft-fix-your-surface-book-before-dies.html

"Hey Microsoft!!! Fix your Surface Book before it dies!"

So, now that some of the dust has settled and users have "real life" experiences with their $1,500+ Surface Book's, we need to start complaining. The Surface Book is a very, very expensive product. For it to have SO many issues on release is more than unacceptable. Many products get released with day one patches/updates to resolve issues, but the amount of issues we're having with our Book's is a terrible first impression.

Off the top of my head, here is what I experienced or have seen others experience:

  • Delays in cursor or touch response while browsing, with only the browser open.
  • Screen discoloration while scrolling or just in general.
  • Screen flicker.
  • Screen detach mechanism not detaching.
  • Screen detach not being recognized at all when initiated.
  • Blue screens when detaching or reattaching the screen.
  • Blue screens while using Edge.
  • Blue screens for no reason.
  • Bricked units from faulty firmware updates (wow.)
  • Track pad having sluggish response (fixed via update for most)
  • Overheating or more than normal heat due to inoperable sleep function.
  • Battery drain due to inoperable sleep function.
  • Edge browser
    - Randomly becomes unresponsive/slow.
    - Causes issues with the display (the screen flicker problem)
    - Eats a lot of memory for no real reason
  • Using Google Chrome provides a terrible scrolling experience, even with smooth scrolling enabled. (Why does the OSX version work without any issues?)
  • WiFi is randomly disconnected or unresponsive (this is incredibly annoying)
  • Loud popping noise from the speakers
  • Laggy/sluggish scrolling with non-native applications; Slack, Chrome, pretty much anything that isn't a Microsoft product.
  • The new dock is causing issues as well

Yikes...
 
  • Like
Reactions: SaveUsBatman

spacebro

Suspended
Oct 1, 2015
552
482
As much good stuff I've heard about windows 10 and the surface book, I almost started to think it could be good. It sounds like windows still exposes users to low level issues like mouse lag and blue screens. Windows 10 still doesn't support multitouch like osx does. It doesn't matter how fast the surface book is, these low level interface issues make it a poor choice to rely on as a professional tool. And its only faster because of the cpu launch schedule- when apple launches 13" skylake macbooks I have no doubt they will wreck the recently released surface books and might even be cheaper.

Maybe the detachable screen will turn out to be popular, but to me it seems like a gimmick. It has these extra moving parts and a complicated socket, will probably have a lot of mechanical and socket failures.
 

nebo1ss

macrumors 68030
Jun 2, 2010
2,906
1,696
I can't believe you are even trying to compare a new computer to a 10 year old computer; of course it's going to be light years ahead!
Reading comprehension problem. He was not comparing it to a ten old computer he said it is the most exciting new computer he had in ten years.
 

leman

macrumors Core
Oct 14, 2008
19,318
19,336
That's because Microsoft's primary focus has long been business and the enterprise which takes first priority, not design or aesthetic. I understand that it feels awkward that different menus use different styles, but the reason for that is so that the system administrators who manage these devices don't have to constantly learn where the different under the hood settings and controls have been moved to.

I surely hope that you are being ironic. Believe me, administrators would LOVE to have a functional interface in Windows for once (I am saying it as an administrator myself ;) ). Then again, windows administrators are often quite lazy and borderline computer illiterate (up to the point that I start getting very sceptical when hiring IT personal who have an MCSA certification and nothing else), so there might be some truth in what you say — even though, using it as a justification for the garbage we get it ridiculous.

Still, I think that there is simpler explanation such as lack of competent designers, lack of aesthetic sense on the leadership level and generally low level of demand from the customers, who are used to being served a bare-bones system.

P.S. OS X, with its logically played out settings, and most importantly, rich command line administrative utilities, is much more administrator-friendly than Windows.
 

lJoSquaredl

macrumors 6502a
Mar 26, 2012
522
227
What is wrong with integrated GPUs other than games? Iris Pro can do 4K at 60hz. That is better than some dedicated GPUs that I have around. The Skylake Integrated GPU can power three 4K monitors.

That's my question. I'll probably be perfectly happy getting baseline rMBPs from now on with the iGPUs. Even when video editing, they seem to hang with the 650m and will only get better with each iteration. Honestly if you look at the most popular games on Twitch too, most of them can run on potatoes anyways lol. Really don't see the need for a dGPU anymore unless u wanna run Witcher on Ultra or games like that. As far as productivity especially, there seems to be less and less need for them.

Also if these AMD rumors are true we could see some amazing APUs coming to Apple products soon as well.
 

austinpike

macrumors 6502
Oct 5, 2008
316
48
MN
The entire system is still a dysfunctional mix and match between different UI styles...
I eagerly blew away Win8 on a couple systems and was surprised at how Win10 really isn't that different.... there are 3-4 places you have to look for every setting between the two interfaces with this jarring shift between Metro's huge expanses of nothingness and "old" Windows. Screen resolution keeps getting higher yet the interface is dumbed down to a lowest common denominator that could run on a 4" phone, so even on a 14" 1080 screen you feel like you are working at 720. There is no scaling option that works for all the possible interface elements without some things being too small and others being too large.

Not to mention the OS itself is now infested with ads/nagware. Yes you can get most of it turned off, but the average user isn't going to know that. I can't imagine that crap in a corporate setting; I can only assume the enterprise version has it significantly toned down.
 

Max(IT)

Suspended
Dec 8, 2009
8,551
1,662
Italy
I received my Surface Book yesterday. I'm speechless. This thing is the future,
makes my Macs look obsolete. Not old, but prehistoric old. Incredible.

Photoshop runs like a charm. 16GB of RAM, Nvidia card, 512 SSD, i7. Everything is seamless.
Tablet mode - perfect.

But the device itself is the most amazing. Screen can be detached easily, flipped, reattached.
Pen is as smooth as any Wacom. When in tablet mode, you can use writing recognition
and it WORKS! Anything, web addresses, passwords anything works. Switch to a virtual keyboard
if you want to. When we saw how great writing recognition works, our jaws dropped.

This is my first exciting laptop in ages, more than 10 years for sure.

Feels like the future. My previous comparable experience - first iPhone.

So sad to see Apple being so far behind. Even Windows 10 make OS X look very old...
Tried yesterday.
I couldn't agree less with you.
A pricey, half baked, unbalanced solution....
 

Obagleyfreer

macrumors member
May 9, 2016
60
33
New Zealand
Sorry, no games and not planning to. Used it last night for a few hours,
mostly with Photoshop. Detached and reattached the screen a few times. Did some Win updates.

Played with Edge, the new browser, hacked the hosts file to kill off all the adds and it worked.

No heat at all. No issues, nothing. Absolutely seamless.

My number one use is Photoshop. This thing has a full SD card slot, what I miss in my Macbook Air 11.
Two USB 3 slots for any external drives etc. BTW my Macbook Air next to this is like an ancient giant cell phone,
4 pounds and a giant antenna sticking out, you know what I mean. Really sad...

Whats the screen like? Wide gamut like MBP? Good Delta E score?
That's all I care about on an editing machine.

My TB MBP 15" has an amazing screen.
I'm loving the P3 gamut and an AVERAGE Delta E of 0.7 is incredible for a portable device.

Other than that the GPU and CPU in real world use between the 2 machines I would say are pretty much the same.

EDIT*
Just realised how old this thread is, my comment is pretty much obsolete lol
Sorry!
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,627
43,623
Whats the screen like? Wide gamut like MBP? Good Delta E score?
That's all I care about on an editing machine.
I don't think its at the same depth as the new MBP, I think the screen is gorgeous and that was one reason why I opted for the SB over other laptops. Still the new MBP leap frogged the SB in terms of gamut, but then I'm not surprised since it came out 8 or 9 months after the SurfaceBook.

I'm not knocking the MBP, its a gorgeous computer, and it does indeed have a better gamut
 
  • Like
Reactions: Obagleyfreer

Queen6

macrumors G4
Another for the Surface Book, leaps & bounds ahead of Apple's current offering's. Six months in with the Surface Book, no regrets whatsoever. Apple wants my $$$$ and recommendation, they need to provide professional solutions, not lifestyle products...

Q-6
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.