Graphics Card for MDD FW800

[Timmah_C]

Hi everyone,
I recently purchased a Radeon 9600 XT 128MB graphics card from eBay. It was listed as being Powermac G4 and G5 compatible. Basically, I wanted to get the best graphics card option that will allow me to use the ADC connection. I planned to use it in my MDD FW800.

I was excited once it arrived, only to realise that it physically doesn't fit into my FW800 graphics slot, or PCI slots. I was under the impression, from all the research I did before purchasing, that this was the card for me. I also have a G4 Quicksilver, which the card does slot into (with some connectors on the card not fitting into the GPU slot). Unfortunately my QS is currently not working, so I'm not able to confirm whether or not it will work.

My questions are:
1. Why is the MDD FW800 graphics slot different to that of the QS? I thought all Powermac G4 machines from the Digital audio onwards had the same graphics slot.

2. What is my best option for a ADC graphics card to use in the MDD FW800? I read a lot about the Radeon 9800 Pro Mac Edition, however the connectors on those definitely don't look like they will fit either my FW800 or QS.

3. Will the Radeon 9600 XT that I purchased function without issue in my QS (once I get that machine running again)?

Thanks for your time folks.

 

[bunnspecial]

I ran one of those cards for a long time in a Quicksilver. Note first of all that it's not a drop in-you need to tape pins 3 and 11(plenty out there on the web to do it) and the ADC power tab won't line up properly with the one in your computer. I soldered a couple of fingers from an old ISA card attached with a small jumper and ran it for a long time like that.

As to not fitting-is the retention tab fouling on that additional connector that sits behind the main ADC slot? If that's where the problem is, my personal inclination would be to grab a pair of diagonal cutters and snip the retention tab off. It's "dead" PCB and while it does serve a function, IIRC it doesn't actually engage anything in a 4x AGP slot so is just kind of hanging there.

 

[r6mile]

Hi, sorry to up this thread but have a couple of questions re GPUs for the MDD FW800. I am looking - I know these types of questions have been asked a lot already but I wanted to make sure of a couple of things:

- Is it definitely impossible to flash an nVIDIA card without using a PC? There is an AGP Geforce 6600 GT (which is listed on themacelite as compatible with the MDD) going on eBay, but I don't have a PC to flash so wanted to check whether this was or wasn't an option.
- I understand it is possible to flash an ATI card from within the iMac using safe mode on Tiger using a PCI card, but I don't have one. Can I do this over vnc using another iMac? Does this require Safe Mode? Can it be done through Leopard? There is a PC Grandmars 9800 Pro 128MB going which looks very interesting, and I've heard this was a good flashing choice but want to make sure I can do this from the Mac itself.
- Otherwise, is a Radeon 9600 from a G5 a good choice? I've found one at reasonable price on eBay, or alternatively I may try to find a G5 nearby with a 9600 and harvest it from there.

 

[Amethyst1]

There is a PC Grandmars 9800 Pro 128MB going which looks very interesting

Just a heads-up - 9800s don't have dual-link DVI.

 

[r6mile]

Just a heads-up - 9800s don't have dual-link DVI.

Yes I suspected as much, thanks. I think I've given up on this given how difficult it seems to find a dual-link DVI card! Other than the 9650, which seems impossible to find, a flashed FireGL X3 seems a good possibility but not sure it's worth it at around £45 inc shipping...

 

[Amethyst1]

Yes I suspected as much, thanks. I think I've given up on this given how difficult it seems to find a dual-link DVI card! Other than the 9650, which seems impossible to find, a flashed FireGL X3 seems a good possibility but not sure it's worth it at around £45 inc shipping...

It's your decision - I couldn't stand the thought of having an awesome monitor and not being able to use it with the machine. It's worth noting that the 9600 and 6600 GT don't have dual-link DVI either and won't provide graphics acceleration in OS 9. Neither will the 9800.

 

[r6mile]

It's your decision - I couldn't stand the thought of having an awesome monitor and not being able to use it with the machine. It's worth noting that the 9600 and 6600 GT don't have dual-link DVI either and won't provide graphics acceleration in OS 9. Neither will the 9800.

But it also looks like these dual-link DVI-mDP adapters are very expensive/hard to find, whereas I've found a single-link adapter for pretty cheap... Although, just had a look on eBay and found this - this Apple A1306 would work right?

In any case, no card that supports Core Image also provides graphics acceleration in OS9? So I'd have to choose between the two - I guess I could keep my Radeon 9000 if I ever wanted to use OS9.

By the way do you know the answer to whether a Geforce can be flashed in a Mac?

 

[Amethyst1]

Although, just had a look on eBay and found this - this Apple A1306 would work right?

No, it won't. It's for connecting dual-link DVI displays to DisplayPort GPUs - you need to go the other way round, and this gizmo doesn't do that.

In any case, no card that supports Core Image also provides graphics acceleration in OS9?

Correct.

By the way do you know the answer to whether a Geforce can be flashed in a Mac?

Beats me, sorry.

 

[r6mile]

No, it won't. It's for connecting dual-link DVI displays to DisplayPort GPUs - you need to go the other way round, and this gizmo doesn't do that.


Correct.


Beats me, sorry.

Thanks again - since the only suitable and reasonably priced mDP - DVI adapter is single-link (this one, for an unbeatable £11.47) I might have to stick with that...
Although perhaps this would work, with a mDP - female DP adapter on top (getting a bit clunky though).

 

[weckart]

By the way do you know the answer to whether a Geforce can be flashed in a Mac?

Not a definitive answer but I have never managed to flash an ATI card successfully in a Mac. I've tried using Graphiccelerator a number of times. It ran and went through all the steps but still left me with an unflashed card.

Try Freecycle and you might get a Pentium4 PC for free. Nobody seems to want to hold onto those because they are inefficient for a '"retro" PC. Office clearances and word of mouth help. I've had a few come my way by those means. You won't be able to salvage any from recycling centres any more due to Covid, unfortunately.

 

[Amethyst1]

Although perhaps this would work, with a mDP - female DP adapter on top (getting a bit clunky though).

Wrong way unfortunately, like the Apple adapter.

Here's an idea - once you have a working dual-link DVI output in your MDD, I'll be okay with letting you have my adapter. It's the correct one and I know it's working.

 

[r6mile]

Wrong way unfortunately, like the Apple adapter.

Here's an idea - once you have a working dual-link DVI output in your MDD, I'll be okay with letting you have my adapter. It's the correct one and I know it's working.

Argh sorry, I know what you mean now. I should look at the Pins more closely.

Thanks a lot for the offer! Let's see if I even manage to get a dual link dvi gpu, but if as @weckart says there's no guarantee that I'll be able to flash it within a Mac, I'm not sure I want to spend nearly £50 on the firegl x3...

Just in case I had a look at free cycle but no pcs going locally.

 

[Timmah_C]

I ran one of those cards for a long time in a Quicksilver. Note first of all that it's not a drop in-you need to tape pins 3 and 11(plenty out there on the web to do it) and the ADC power tab won't line up properly with the one in your computer. I soldered a couple of fingers from an old ISA card attached with a small jumper and ran it for a long time like that.

As to not fitting-is the retention tab fouling on that additional connector that sits behind the main ADC slot? If that's where the problem is, my personal inclination would be to grab a pair of diagonal cutters and snip the retention tab off. It's "dead" PCB and while it does serve a function, IIRC it doesn't actually engage anything in a 4x AGP slot so is just kind of hanging there.

Are you suggesting I should simply cut off the parts of the Radeon 9600 XT that do not slot into the slots on the logic board? I'm sure I'll be able to figure out the required taping of pins, but for now the card doesn't physically fit.

 

[Intell]

Are you suggesting I should simply cut off the parts of the Radeon 9600 XT that do not slot into the slots on the logic board? I'm sure I'll be able to figure out the required taping of pins, but for now the card doesn't physically fit.

In short yes. But only the one part that doesn't have any silver/gold pins on it. It'll be an L shaped part sticking out.

 

[weckart]

 

[Timmah_C]

In short yes. But only the one part that doesn't have any silver/gold pins on it. It'll be an L shaped part sticking out.

Thanks very much for this reply! Shoutouts to weckart for the photo, too. You guys rule!

So, the part where I mentioned I'd be fine with the taping of pins 3 and 11...well, I'm not fine with that part lol. I looked into this previously, and there were guides with photos. For some reason, I am not able to find any guides with photos now. Could somebody walk me through exactly how to tape pins 3 and 11?

 

[Intell]

This page has all the information you need: http://themacelite.wikidot.com/pins-3-and-11 The overall process is to tape the pins, then using a razor blade to cut away the tape from all but pins 3 and 11

 

[Timmah_C]

This page has all the information you need: http://themacelite.wikidot.com/pins-3-and-11 The overall process is to tape the pins, then using a razor blade to cut away the tape from all but pins 3 and 11

Thanks for that, however the section under "Taping" has no text or images, and I don't feel comfortable soldering or cutting the pins (don't want to butcher the card accidentally).

 

[r6mile]

Will the OP be able to use the ADC port on his MDD though?

 

[Intell]

Yes, but only if they modify the ADC power as outlined in post 2. Note: With pins 3 and 11 taped off, it is not possible to use the power button on the ADC display to power on/off the Mac.

 

[z970]

Thanks for that, however the section under "Taping" has no text or images, and I don't feel comfortable soldering or cutting the pins (don't want to butcher the card accidentally).

What I did with the G5 9600 in my MDD is just progressively cut away a small piece of tape until it's just big enough to cover the whole pin, and just small enough not to cover any other pins. Then, just press it on and curl the excess back.

Worked like a charm ever since.

 

[weckart]

There's a thread with pictures of a taped 9600 here

Radeon 9600 Pro not detected on Power Mac G4 DA

I just got an ATI Radeon 9600 Pro off eBay, and it’s having some trouble working with my Power Mac G4 Digital Audio. I taped pins 3 & 11 to make the card work at 4x, but I still get a black screen. I am able to VNC into the Mac, so I checked System Profiler, which says that no cards are present...

forums.macrumors.com

 

[Timmah_C]

UPDATE: I taped pins 3 and 11 and installed the card into my Quicksilver. The computer booted, however the 17" Apple Studio Display remained blank, no video whatsoever from ADC. Then I used the chunky ADC-DVI adapter, and everything worked well.

The issue is, the whole reason I went for this graphics card is because I want to use the ADC connection.

What could I try next?

 

[r6mile]

UPDATE: I taped pins 3 and 11 and installed the card into my Quicksilver. The computer booted, however the 17" Apple Studio Display remained blank, no video whatsoever from ADC. Then I used the chunky ADC-DVI adapter, and everything worked well.

The issue is, the whole reason I went for this graphics card is because I want to use the ADC connection.

What could I try next?

It looks like you will need to do some soldering, like @bunnspecial describes in his post. There is a picture in one of the guides I’ve seen online. It looks like that it’s only way to get a G5 ADC card to power an ADC display on the G4.

 

[Timmah_C]

I ran one of those cards for a long time in a Quicksilver. Note first of all that it's not a drop in-you need to tape pins 3 and 11(plenty out there on the web to do it) and the ADC power tab won't line up properly with the one in your computer. I soldered a couple of fingers from an old ISA card attached with a small jumper and ran it for a long time like that.

As to not fitting-is the retention tab fouling on that additional connector that sits behind the main ADC slot? If that's where the problem is, my personal inclination would be to grab a pair of diagonal cutters and snip the retention tab off. It's "dead" PCB and while it does serve a function, IIRC it doesn't actually engage anything in a 4x AGP slot so is just kind of hanging there.

@bunnspecial Do you happen to have a photo of what your ADC 9600 XT setup looked like?