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Hands-On First Impressions of Apple's New Payment Initiative, Apple Pay
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Apple actually appears to have an excellent record when it comes to credit card security. The iTunes Store era is what, 10+ years with probably one of the largest databases of credit cards in the world? And as far back as I can recall, there has never been a hack that exposed any credit card information.
It seems like Apple's doing all of the right things with how Apple Pay is designed.
I wonder if the next step for this is integration with the Mac? Imagine going to a web site and being able to authenticate the purchase via your iPhone, with your credit card details never transmitted in the open.
It seems like Apple's doing all of the right things with how Apple Pay is designed.
I wonder if the next step for this is integration with the Mac? Imagine going to a web site and being able to authenticate the purchase via your iPhone, with your credit card details never transmitted in the open.
Australia and many other developed nations have been using contactless PayWave/PayPass technology for transactions for many years...I can't remember the last time I swiped and signed using a credit card.
Some Aussie banks also have their own NFC enabled android apps that allow tap & pay without the need for a physical card.
Does IOS8 allow non-apple apps to pay using NFC, or will everything have to go through apple pay? If apple pay is the only way to pay using NFC on an iphone, then its a step backwards for us who already use our phones to pay for items.
Some Aussie banks also have their own NFC enabled android apps that allow tap & pay without the need for a physical card.
Does IOS8 allow non-apple apps to pay using NFC, or will everything have to go through apple pay? If apple pay is the only way to pay using NFC on an iphone, then its a step backwards for us who already use our phones to pay for items.
Having used Google Wallet on Android for years, you Apple folk are in for a world of disappointment.
Retailers don't trust contactless payments, terminals are often non-functional and it's generally a highly unreliable method of payment.
Don't shred you cards yet...in fact, not much will change in the way of contactless (NFC) payments for at least 6-8 more years. This is a fact.
Retailers don't trust contactless payments, terminals are often non-functional and it's generally a highly unreliable method of payment.
Don't shred you cards yet...in fact, not much will change in the way of contactless (NFC) payments for at least 6-8 more years. This is a fact.
It's not as simple as just snapping a picture of the card to activate it for Apple Pay. The issuing bank needs to be involved in the activation process, since Apple Pay transactions don't use the account data printed on the card, but cryptographic tokens that are linked to the credit card account. The bank and the phone first need to negotiate cryptographic keys that are stored on the phone and used to generate the tokens before it can work.
It's not clear yet now exactly this will look in practice from a user perspective. Perhaps you will have to log in to your bank's web page and run some kind of activation process there.
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Apple is clearly hoping to do better than Google. It remains to be seen if it will work. One reason why it might is not so much because of technical differences, but because they can incentivize merchants by offering kickbacks from the rebates on transaction fees they have negotiated with the banks.
Also, I believe in terms of usability Apple Pay will be much nicer because of Touch ID. Nobody likes fumbling around with their phone entering PINs etc.
One thing that Apple has not mentioned is that does the NFC mobile payment functionality on the iPhone 6 through Apple Pay work with user-refillable prepaid NFC mobile payment systems such as Mobile Suica and Rakuten Edy in Japan and Olleh Touch in South Korea.
If it does, this could tremendously increase sales of the iPhone, since NFC mobile payments are common in the two countries I mentioned.
If it does, this could tremendously increase sales of the iPhone, since NFC mobile payments are common in the two countries I mentioned.
Credit card companies would still have this... Apple is just acting as a middle man, essentially using the iPhone as the touchPass, PayWave, or whatever the credit card companies are calling it now. Apple doesn't process ANYTHING, they just connect the merchent to the credit card company. The credit card company essentially sees the same stuff they did before (i.e. $105.21 from Walmart).
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Actually, they kind of did mention this by saying Apple Pay will only be available in the US for now.
So like Touch ID, if I moved to another iPhone 6 for maybe a genius bar visit or such, I would have to re-enter my fingerprints AND credit card data??
iBeacon would not take anything away from the credit card companies at all. They are transceivers that can facilitate payments that take place with credit cards over Bluetooth 4.0 (Bluetooth LE). I posted earlier in this threat, and another poster replied that they think that Apple is on the way to moving from NFC to iBeacons. Apple first wants to establish relationships with the card companies, issuing banks, and merchants, and then will begin to roll out iBeacon networks. I agree with the poster's analysis! I think it would be great for iBeacons to be rolled out in a large-scale deployment, it would be a very powerful way to conduct commerce.
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If I am not mistaken, the connection from iPhone to terminal occurs over NFC. The terminal is connected to the network, though, so that is where the transaction takes place.
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I am also having some conversations with ppl on MR about this. Some of us think that after Apple establishes trust with merchants, the credit card companies, and issuing banks, the company will move to expand its iBeacon network and will move away from NFC. iBeacons are much more reliable and also create a better experience because they not only can facilitate financial transactions, but can also send push notifications to devices. These notifications can include coupons, receipts, and other information that would normally be distributed on paper or through e-mail.
This would be good if everyone gets in on it, but only real world tests will matter.
I see at this stage there is no word of "other supported countries" listed, just that "we are working we other countries." which to me translates to "it will never happen".
If Apple are really keen on making it happen, why is it limited ?
I see at this stage there is no word of "other supported countries" listed, just that "we are working we other countries." which to me translates to "it will never happen".
If Apple are really keen on making it happen, why is it limited ?
I do believe that Apple has created a safe payment system, they implemented a special chip on the logic board to securely hold credit and payment card information. They are also using tokenized transactions to encrypt and securely transmit payment details between POS terminals and iDevices.
What I was pondering, though, is why Apple has not initially implemented use of its iBeacon technology for payments. Apple may have embraced NFC at first, in order to build rapport with the credit card companies and issuing banks, and then will also continue rolling out iBeacons as time goes on.
Contactless ATMs are already a thing.
Magnetic swipe cards are no longer a thing after October next year.
Indeed. I'd love to know how "5-10 seconds" meshes with "smoothest payment system"; it's trivial to just hold my wallet to the Paywave reader for one second. I don't need to take my card out, I don't need to press buttons, and I certainly don't need to hold it there for 5-10 seconds. If I wanted that then I'd go to KFC (or somewhere else with misconfigured terminals) and use the chip.
Canada is one of these countries. Cards with NFC have been around for quite some time in Canada and the rest of the world. I've been using NFC payments for almost ten years.
NFC payment only requires the tap on the card on the payment device. The video makes it look so complicated. Every card in my wallet has an NFC chip and I just choose the card and tap. Done.
We also have NFC phone payments in Canada, (with the NFC chip in the sim card) but that seems like a step backwards from NFC card payments.
NFC payments and payments with smartphones are new only in the US. The only reason why it might work in the US is because the banking system is so complicated. Once the terminals are in place, the banks will start issuing cards with NFC chips and payment with the phone will be pointless.
Paywave/Paypass have actually been available for many years in the US, and there is already a significant installed base of NFC-enabled POS terminals (which is where the 220,000 number in today's keynote came from). It just never really caught on here, which is why banks have scaled back issuing NFC cards in recent years.
But just tapping physical NFC cards is not nearly as safe as something like Apple Pay, since there is no verification that the person who taps the card is actually the account holder. That's why there is a low transaction limit for signature-less tap transactions. Systems like Google Wallet and Apple Pay, on the other hand, require authentication by the user on the mobile (either through a PIN in case of Google Wallet, or via biometrics in the case of Apple Pay). Hence, no transaction limits (up to the card's credit limit, of course).
lol, I've never ever seen any payWave or PayPass terminals in the US and I'm there twice per month!
Banks provide guarantees against unauthorized transactions if you notify them. Our NFC limit in Canada is about $200. Beyond that, we have to use chip and pin.
Still, the Apple system looks really cumbersome and slow and it would be a step backwards for me.
I'm not sure how it's done in North America, but in Australia all tap & pay transactions have a $100 limit and all banks guarantee to refund any unauthorised tap & pay transaction very easily. For any transaction over $100, a normal pin is used.
The theory being that purchases over $100 are 'significant' and require more formal authentication (via pin numbers). Tap & Pay transactions under $100 are marketed for the convenience with low value, high volume transactions that don't need rigorous security (e.g. paying for a newspaper, coffee).
I think the Apple Pay method is good start, but seems like a painful process to setup (having to go to a bank for authorisation) and offers no additional 'safety' benefits than using a normal NFC chip credit/debit card or NFC enabled android smarthphone with tap & pay banking apps.
It's about using the technology that is already in shops. It couldn't be a success if it meant stores had to go out of their way to implement it. Those with contact less card equipment are ready for Apple Pay already.
This is true... Here's how I see it:
Day 1: You have
Pay, and you go to Subway, Burger King, and Target. You have to whip out the credit card to pay at BK. (congrats, BTW!)Day 100: BK notices that people at McDonalds are paying with their
Pay, and decides to make the move to it. Day 1000: More often than not, you see stickers on major chains, and a few small stores with the
Pay (like the stickers for Visa/MC/AMEX) on the window, and a similar store without it (let's just say you're at the mall, and the stores are across from each other, and it's Christmastime, and there are 3 registers, one with Pay, and two for traditional transactions). You're now comfortable with paying this way, and I'd be willing to bet that most people would choose the store with the Pay sticker.Anyway, that's how I see it. Slow at first, then compelling.
There is an authentication step (they send you some kind of PIN to type in, like iCloud 2 factor authentication), plus that card theft could be tracked on their phone (if that's what you meant, they just add your card to their passbook).
As it stands now, if they were to take a picture of your card, and make a bunch of online purchases (i.e., get your ID, so they can use your address as a "bill to" and a different "ship to" address) before you'd ever know.
With the phone method, I see it as safer, especially with the authentication, plus the one time use of the pseudo-cards.
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I missed that too. We use both of our fingerprints (either one) to unlock her 5s. On the 19th, we will set up my 6+ with both of ours and see if it works with either one of us. I'm thinking it's two different systems, using this algorithm:
1. Prompt to pay for something
2. Establish NFC connection
3. Prompt for CC (if there are multiple ones)
4. Prompt for authorization (finger print on TouchID - any fingerprint stored in it will work... which will be interesting for those that live in shared living arrangements)
5. Complete transaction
6. Close NFC connection
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I'm almost positive that if/when you go to work, you earn money for the service that you provide to your customer/boss/owner/whatever. Even the people on the side of the road with their signs provide a service, "guilt avoidance."
So, if you're really against people making money (think about that expression... up until 250 years ago, money was traded, and now it's "made" - amazing), I'd start at home, and refuse money for your services.
As for Apple, Google, Microsoft, (insert the name of the company that you absolutely despise. I think I have it with those 3 on this forum), if they provide me a service, I'll pay them. Otherwise, I'll take my money elsewhere.
