Resolved Help Recreating a Logo as a Vector

[Sdashiki]

Well, i am glad we are talking about this correctly and not throwing barbs at one another.

But i am also glad many others share my disdain for what happened in this thread and that the OP wants to be a designer, and semi-pro, but gives everyone on here crap for noting that logos belong in vector format, period.

if you do not know that and want to argue that fact, you have NO business doing this business. You dont create your files in vector first and output pixels later? Thats just egregious for your own sanity. Come on dude.

 

[grandM]

I really am not going to let people who know nothing really about me on a forum judge whether or not I'm in the right line of work. If the client wanted eps files that's what the client would have got. Did they want these? No, therefore please don't judge me and my career based on one thread and some limited information about a client and their project. I do design things in vector format sometimes however for the majority of my clients they don't have a need for these sorts of files but instead just basic PNG and JPEG. If I felt it was a necessary thing to export all files in eps for every client then I would. I would also be committing business suicide by spending significantly more than i'm bringing in. Spending £100's a year on a CC Subscription when it is not really necessary is not a good idea considering the other overheads and the fact I need to give myself a decent salary to live off. I have had my issue resolved and I feel there is no need of this thread as now it has just become a case of people making comments about things they couldn't possibly be in a position to comment on .


I have already checked with the client about whether he was going to ever need anything done in print and he said no because his business was an online based business he has no reason to print anything. I wouldn't have designed him a Logo that would not be fit for purpose, despite some people questioning my ability to work in the design industry. I know how to keep customers happy and I also know that it's important to establish what formats the client is going to need their work in and also what it's going to be used for.

I do not think people ought to be yelling at each other now. I however would like to try to put something positive in. I' m no professional designer so it is just a suggestion.

Currently I'm following a course on sketch. It costs less than 100 dollars (one time buy) on the app store. Sketch creates vector files by default. Once again I can not compare it to adobe products etc.

I'm just trying to help out. Perhaps it's an alternative so all your clients will have vector images in the future

 

[Sdashiki]

If you cant or dont use Adobe, youre doing yourself, your client and the business as a whole a disservice.

I may not like Adobe's stranglehold on media design, but it is what it is.

 

[jaigieese]

Consider this....

If you are serious about pursuing a career, part-time or otherwise, in graphics design, you'll need to consider the following.

First of all, the old saw "the client is always right" is not valid. If a client knew all about the niceties of graphics design, he or she would not have needed to hire a professional designer.

Therefore, your client cannot know the best way to create graphics. It is a part of your job as a professional to educate your client when he or she is asking for things that may lead to problems down the road or things that simply don't work. it's up to you, if you care about seeing that your client gets the best result, to inform them of such problems.

Doctors do this. Lawyers do this, and so do many other professions. If your client is unwilling to listen to valid advice, you might be better off advising them to find another designer.

I once worked for a medium-large print shop. We in the pre-press and design department were seldom allowed the luxury to speaking directly to our clients. Instead, we were required to deal with sales reps, few of which had ANY knowledge of what it takes to create a piece of artwork. Often, the sales rep would demand that something be done in a certain way, a way that those of us who actually performed the work knew would be impossible or troublesome, and would produce less than optimal results. Were we to suggest a different approach, the sales rep would sometimes become angry and even more demanding and suggest that if what we built didn't work - which it usually didn't - then it was our fault. And they'd flatly refuse to try and educate the client about a wiser approach. "Just do it the way they want!" was the normal response.

This is an extremely stressful way to earn a living, and it is the primary reason I've retired from graphics design.

All that said, you really need to begin designing your logos in vector format. If you prefer not to use Illustrator - the industry standard - then you ought to look into the several other vector apps now available.

If you begin with a vector design, and you find that you need a non-vector version, it is far easier to convert vector to bitmap. As you have discovered, reversing that conversion, from bitmap to vector, is far more difficult.

I've encountered this problem many times when working up a design for a client and I'd ask them for a clean, print-ready digital file of their logo and they'd shrug and suggest I download the logo from their website. Ever tried to use a web-ready image in a much larger space? As you've discovered, it doesn't work
well.

Begin with vector, always, and you'll find yourself using a lot less anti-acid.....

 

[LiamHD]

If you are serious about pursuing a career, part-time or otherwise, in graphics design, you'll need to consider the following.

First of all, the old saw "the client is always right" is not valid. If a client knew all about the niceties of graphics design, he or she would not have needed to hire a professional designer.

Therefore, your client cannot know the best way to create graphics. It is a part of your job as a professional to educate your client when he or she is asking for things that may lead to problems down the road or things that simply don't work. it's up to you, if you care about seeing that your client gets the best result, to inform them of such problems.

Doctors do this. Lawyers do this, and so do many other professions. If your client is unwilling to listen to valid advice, you might be better off advising them to find another designer.

I once worked for a medium-large print shop. We in the pre-press and design department were seldom allowed the luxury to speaking directly to our clients. Instead, we were required to deal with sales reps, few of which had ANY knowledge of what it takes to create a piece of artwork. Often, the sales rep would demand that something be done in a certain way, a way that those of us who actually performed the work knew would be impossible or troublesome, and would produce less than optimal results. Were we to suggest a different approach, the sales rep would sometimes become angry and even more demanding and suggest that if what we built didn't work - which it usually didn't - then it was our fault. And they'd flatly refuse to try and educate the client about a wiser approach. "Just do it the way they want!" was the normal response.

This is an extremely stressful way to earn a living, and it is the primary reason I've retired from graphics design.

All that said, you really need to begin designing your logos in vector format. If you prefer not to use Illustrator - the industry standard - then you ought to look into the several other vector apps now available.

If you begin with a vector design, and you find that you need a non-vector version, it is far easier to convert vector to bitmap. As you have discovered, reversing that conversion, from bitmap to vector, is far more difficult.

I've encountered this problem many times when working up a design for a client and I'd ask them for a clean, print-ready digital file of their logo and they'd shrug and suggest I download the logo from their website. Ever tried to use a web-ready image in a much larger space? As you've discovered, it doesn't work
well.

Begin with vector, always, and you'll find yourself using a lot less anti-acid.....

Thank You Jaigieese! One of the better replies left on this thread. I have looked at the app previously mentioned in the thread "Sketch 3" I have decided to download and test out. I thank you for your calm and collected input on this thread.

 

[laurim]

If you are serious about pursuing a career, part-time or otherwise, in graphics design, you'll need to consider the following.

First of all, the old saw "the client is always right" is not valid. If a client knew all about the niceties of graphics design, he or she would not have needed to hire a professional designer.

Therefore, your client cannot know the best way to create graphics. It is a part of your job as a professional to educate your client when he or she is asking for things that may lead to problems down the road or things that simply don't work. it's up to you, if you care about seeing that your client gets the best result, to inform them of such problems.

Doctors do this. Lawyers do this, and so do many other professions. If your client is unwilling to listen to valid advice, you might be better off advising them to find another designer.

I once worked for a medium-large print shop. We in the pre-press and design department were seldom allowed the luxury to speaking directly to our clients. Instead, we were required to deal with sales reps, few of which had ANY knowledge of what it takes to create a piece of artwork. Often, the sales rep would demand that something be done in a certain way, a way that those of us who actually performed the work knew would be impossible or troublesome, and would produce less than optimal results. Were we to suggest a different approach, the sales rep would sometimes become angry and even more demanding and suggest that if what we built didn't work - which it usually didn't - then it was our fault. And they'd flatly refuse to try and educate the client about a wiser approach. "Just do it the way they want!" was the normal response.

This is an extremely stressful way to earn a living, and it is the primary reason I've retired from graphics design.

All that said, you really need to begin designing your logos in vector format. If you prefer not to use Illustrator - the industry standard - then you ought to look into the several other vector apps now available.

If you begin with a vector design, and you find that you need a non-vector version, it is far easier to convert vector to bitmap. As you have discovered, reversing that conversion, from bitmap to vector, is far more difficult.

I've encountered this problem many times when working up a design for a client and I'd ask them for a clean, print-ready digital file of their logo and they'd shrug and suggest I download the logo from their website. Ever tried to use a web-ready image in a much larger space? As you've discovered, it doesn't work
well.

Begin with vector, always, and you'll find yourself using a lot less anti-acid.....

I perfectly agree with everything you said but I am replying to let you know that I misread your last line as "Begin with vector, always, and you'll find yourself using a lot less ACID....."

LOL

 

[grandM]

Thank You Jaigieese! One of the better replies left on this thread. I have looked at the app previously mentioned in the thread "Sketch 3" I have decided to download and test out. I thank you for your calm and collected input on this thread.

Glad you liked my suggestion

 

[faustfire]

Take it from someone who is sick and tired of asking HER clients for a vector version of their logo so I can do my job decently and them giving me a crappy jpeg (or better yet, a jpeg they re-saved as eps because they don't know it doesn't work that way) that I have to try to make work.

Seriously! I run into this problem all the the time and it never fails to drive me into a fit of rage.

 

[citizenzen]

Logo Fundamentals

It must ...

• work well and be legible at small sizes (1")
• recreate adequately in black and white only
• convert to grayscale
• color separate correctly in both a Spot Color and CMYK
• be scalable to any size (vector)
• be exportable to a variety of formats

OP, keep this list and the advice of other in mind the next time you tackle a logo. As many have said, it's just the basis of a professionally made mark.

My personal favorite workflow (using your hated CS6) — Illustrator for initial vector work. Then copy/paste into Indesign to add type, color, finishing.

 

[dacreativeguy]

I have to also say that anyone who would create a logo in a non-vector format shouldn't be charging anyone for creating logos. It's just basic industry standards. Fine if you don't want to use Illustrator (I presume because you don't have enough money coming in to make it worth paying for the subscription since it would be career suicide to never use Adobe products again) but you can't be a professional designer designing logos without using any vector-based program that can output true vector eps.

P.S. That gradient in the logo is going to be a pain in the ass for printing. Will probably never look smooth. I made the same mistake on my own business logo and am trying to find a better way to convey what I'm trying to say.

This. Ever watch "catch a contractor"?

 

[Lebowski]

to the OP...

It seems there are quite a few things going on in this thread.... and while no one "attacked" you, several did offer good advice however you seem to take the stance that we are all just here to bash you. Someone telling you something you do not want to hear does not qualify as an attack. Going into the fact that we "don't really know you" is irrelevant.

more to the point though...

You first mention needing to recreate the logo in AI or as a vector format... (you do realize that AI IS a VECTOR FORMAT don't you?)

You also mention that you haven't used AI since CS3, and thus would be lost on how to use a current version... Come on guy, thats BS. The changes in AI from CS3 to the current version are not so great that you would be lost. Why not just say "i have no idea how to use AI at all" rather than try to say you "used" to be proficient at it, but due to software updates you have no idea how to use it.

And as many others pointed out, you SHOULD be creating logos in vector from the start. Hands down. No if ands or buts about it. That is rule number 1 for logo creation. The fact that the client didn't specifically ask for it is irrelevant. If you actually did have even some design experience, you would know that.

I think you should maybe take the advice others have given and not get so defensive about it. When many experienced people try to give you advice and you respond that "we don't know you" or whatever else, just shows that you are inexperienced and don't really know what you are doing. The way you react to comments others made towards you is how a child acts...passing blame, excuses etc.

And your comment about if your clients went elsewhere for design work, then they can go ahead and do that... That is why people hire designers. Because a good designer KNOWS how to approach a job, the correct tools used to create it, how to execute the final output etc... 99% of the time, the client doesn't understand, know about, or care to know how the sausage is made. That is where YOU show your worth by doing the job correctly and providing the client with what they asked for, as well as ensuring all files are ready to go... NOT after you go get someone online to do it for you, or walk you through each step.

And the anti adobe thing... As others have said, not using any adobe software IS career suicide. End of story. In this day and age, there really is no other option. You need to use adobe. Making up random excuses as to why you don't is just kidding yourself and everyone else. If you want to be a real designer, you need to suck it up and use it. If I was getting work from a designer that I paid, and then found out it was created using some freeware or iPad drawing app, I would be pretty irritated.

Now, go ahead and quote me and then tell us all the reasons I am wrong.

 

[adamneer]

As a motion graphics designer, I just want to say that whenever I get a logo in a low res raster format, I immediately have to add another 5 hours to my workload, tracing or recreating the logo in Ai. So add that to the long list of reasons why graphic artists should always begin with a vector. Besides, with how rapidly screen sizes and DPI are increasing these days, saving a long-term-use graphic in a non-scalable format is asking for trouble. Of course, I'd also prefer if designers would stay away from strong gradients in their logos, but that's somewhat a matter of opinion. Although I have found that depending on the methods used to create the gradient can have a pretty big impact on how cleanly it scales (not that I don't run into plenty of hideous banding issues with overly compressed rasters).

Another tip - learn how to keep your layers/objects neatly organized and for god's sake clean up all the junk Ai creates when using the pathfinder to merge objects. It is such a pain to have to go back into an Ai file and delete thousands of blank paths or all the excess "just experimenting" bits off to the side of the artboard that the designer didn't think would matter. I realize this is sometimes a result of using a template file you saved as a base for later use, but please do everyone a favor and save a blank template that doesn't include several layers you used on a previous project. On a related note, please please please put all your guides on a separate layer, labelled accordingly, and not just mixed in randomly throughout a single layer with all the other artwork!

More - if you're working with text, please make sure to include the fonts used in the file when sending it to others. Alternatively, you can trace all the text, but if you do this to smaller text, it can sometimes lead to poor quality scaling.

hope this helps!