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wrldwzrd89

macrumors G5
Jun 6, 2003
12,110
77
Solon, OH
wobo63 said:
Of course Apple says so. What else than advertise for a product currently available are they supposed to do. Tell everybody that their display is weak.

That Apple technicians found out the perfect resolution is nice. But this is not Microsoft. I would like to decide for myself.

So I keep on hoping that I am not the only one with this wish.
Personally, I like the resolution of the display on my iMac G4 just fine - I'd have difficulty reading it if the resolution were higher. I know that some people buy the 14 inch iBook precisely because of the relatively low resolution for the screen size - these people have even more trouble reading small text than I do. The ideal solution for me would be to increase the resolution only if the user interface can be scaled up so that I could see it properly, and allow users to play around with the scaling settings (scaling should never be less than 1 IMO).
 

wobo63

macrumors newbie
Apr 4, 2005
5
0
Vienna, Austria, Europe
Screen resolution

wrldwzrd89 said:
Personally, I like the resolution of the display on my iMac G4 just fine - I'd have difficulty reading it if the resolution were higher. I know that some people buy the 14 inch iBook precisely because of the relatively low resolution for the screen size - these people have even more trouble reading small text than I do. The ideal solution for me would be to increase the resolution only if the user interface can be scaled up so that I could see it properly, and allow users to play around with the scaling settings (scaling should never be less than 1 IMO).


May be I do not understand correctly what is meant here. Currently I work on Windows XP (hope not so long anymore) and when I have a Laptop on high resolution (which I do with 1900x1200) I just increase the size of all system fonts. So I have the same size of all text but everything is without any pixeling and extremely sharp.
And when I look to two pages beside each other in InDesign I still can read everything.

Is this different when using an Apple Powerbook?
 

wrldwzrd89

macrumors G5
Jun 6, 2003
12,110
77
Solon, OH
wobo63 said:
May be I do not understand correctly what is meant here. Currently I work on Windows XP (hope not so long anymore) and when I have a Laptop on high resolution (which I do with 1900x1200) I just increase the size of all system fonts. So I have the same size of all text but everything is without any pixeling and extremely sharp.
And when I look to two pages beside each other in InDesign I still can read everything.

Is this different when using an Apple Powerbook?
Windows may have that font scaling feature, but, to be honest, it just doesn't work all that well sometimes. For example, some Windows programs don't follow the rule that says: if the font sizes increase, the size of buttons and similar objects should also increase. Apple realized that, so they didn't include it - doing so would tarnish Apple's image. Instead, they're working on implementing user interface (UI) scaling at the graphics subsystem level so that programmers don't have to worry about the size of buttons and suchlike; the system takes care of that for you. You're just lucky enough to have programs that work properly with the Windows font scaling feature set to something other than Normal. This applies to ALL Macs - not just PowerBooks.
 

eeyoredragon

macrumors member
Apr 2, 2005
91
18
wobo63 said:
May be I do not understand correctly what is meant here. Currently I work on Windows XP (hope not so long anymore) and when I have a Laptop on high resolution (which I do with 1900x1200) I just increase the size of all system fonts. So I have the same size of all text but everything is without any pixeling and extremely sharp.
And when I look to two pages beside each other in InDesign I still can read everything.

Is this different when using an Apple Powerbook?
I did that and everything looked deformed. Words didn't fit on the buttons etc. Not impressed.
 

DavidCar

macrumors 6502a
Jan 19, 2004
525
0
Has it been established that Tiger will have the resolution independence feature shown in the WWDC video? As I recall, it was a way of selecting an application and then magnifying it.
 

hornandsaxguy

macrumors newbie
Jan 5, 2004
15
0
Denver, CO
Strong Evidence of a Small HD (MacMini) Display, Small HD PB, or Apple LCD Projector

Hi Folks,

I was looking at the Quicktime Tiger technology demo movie for Spotlight and I noticed something odd: it's a moving screen capture of a 16:9 screen. I did a screen grab of a frame and was able to figure out that, assuming there's no resolution-independent GUI business going on, that this was captured from a 1280 x 720 display. Now, as far as I know, the only products that work natively at this resolution are LCD projectors. There are no Apple products -- Powerbooks or Flat Panels -- that will support 1280 x 720.

Now, why would Apple grab this Quicktime from the output of a non-Apple LCD projector? I think the answer is, they wouldn't.

Folks, I think we are looking at a Quicktime movie that was generated off of a real or prototype small 16:9 screen Powerbook, MacMini HD Display or Apple LCD projector.

Care to chime in?
 

Rob587

macrumors 6502a
Jul 4, 2004
801
1
Orlando, FL
I think 90% of all rumors are not true..... Which leads me to my question about why people just make things up? I dont get why someone would do that?
 

DHagan4755

macrumors 68020
Jul 18, 2002
2,195
5,907
Massachusetts
bishopduke said:
How do you know its not just a screen cap from a 20" ACD with a big dock? I'm asking because I can't really do the photoshop work to match the screens up to tell.
Because this will not scale to the correct resolutions available on the 20-inch ACD. I tried it.
 

TheMdude

macrumors newbie
Apr 5, 2005
18
0
If they upgrade the screens at NAB on any or all of the PowerBooks, do you think that will mean another 6 months until a major processor update? I really think they need to upgrade the processors soon, the current G4's are getting very stale in the PowerBooks. C'mon Freescale MPC8641D :D

New displays would be nice, but I think a speed bump in the PowerBooks is more important at this point. The 167 MHz fsb is downright disgraceful! I can only hope they will announce upgrades at WWDC...but only 2 months from new displays?

Oh, and the Windows font scaling is ASS! It doesn't even change the font size on buttons, wtf? Windows is teh suXors...but we all know that ;)
 

CmdrLaForge

macrumors 601
Feb 26, 2003
4,637
3,123
around the world
TheMdude said:
If they upgrade the screens at NAB on any or all of the PowerBooks, do you think that will mean another 6 months until a major processor update? I really think they need to upgrade the processors soon, the current G4's are getting very stale in the PowerBooks. C'mon Freescale MPC8641D :D

New displays would be nice, but I think a speed bump in the PowerBooks is more important at this point. The 167 MHz fsb is downright disgraceful!

I don't think that we see the MPC8641D anytime soon. You can keep your fingers crossed for the MPC 7448 which comes with 200MHz FSB. That would be an improvement. Earliest in September. Hopefully not in January. But if you look at the latest updates and the times between. . .
 

andrewfee

macrumors 6502
Aug 29, 2004
467
2
While I didn't expect there to be an "HD Powerbook" or that Tiger would have a resolution independent UI (it's a nice idea, but would be very hard to do well) I came across an image on Apple's PR site that shows off just what this "resolution independence" is, and also why it's not in Tiger.

The image is here. (1.7mb jpg) I'm not embedding it due to its size.

Now this image is a strange resolution (2112x1600) but it'll have to do for this example.

As you can see, on first impressions, everything looks huge on it. However, imagine that instead of viewing it on the 100ppi screen you're likely to be using currently, you're viewing it on a 12" Powerbook running at 2112x1600 native resolution. This "squashes" everything down in physical size, and effectively leaves you with the same workspace you would have on a 1024x768 screen. However, because there are so many more pixels being rendered, everything onscreen is much sharper, clearer, and less pixellated when compared to a powerbook with a 1024x768 native screen.

While this looks better, and sharper, there are also problems caused by it. For simplicity's sake, lets say that this new screen is running at 200ppi (pixels per inch) instead of the old 100ppi. This means that older applications that weren't designed with resolution independance in mind, will look a quarter the size they should onscreen, which is far too small, and would be unreadable.

Having a resolution independant UI will also give you more flexibility though. If you're able to have your UI running at the recommended 200ppi, you could also have the os render everything at 150ppi sizes, for example. This wouldn't be a good idea if you're reading a lot of text, but depending on what you're doing, it may be a good idea, as it will give you more working space on the same screen as it makes everything appear smaller onscreen.

This image is a good example of why I don't think we'll see resolution independance for quite some time though: if you look at the spotlight menu, the input box is horribly pixellated (blocky) around the edges, as are the icons in the results menu. This is because these elements are designed for 100ppi, and are not resolution independent, so they have to be stretched to 200ppi, which is why they're so ugly.


However, this is also adding another problem. Rather than working the graphics card at 1024x768, it's now running at 2112x1600, which will put a bigger strain on the system, meaning that performance will be worse, or more powerful machines will be needed.

Yes, it may be a reasonable extra resolution on a small screen like that, but imagine 200ppi 23" screens. Rather than running at 1920x1200, they would run at (roughly) 3840x2400! :eek:


So while it's nice to dream about resolution independance, and higher resolution displays on the Powerbooks, I can't see it happening for a long time yet. Yes, there are Windows-based laptops that run 1920x1200 on smaller screens, but Windows is far from supporting this well at all. It can handle the font scaling reasonably well, but practically everything else in the OS ends up looking like crap. If you choose not to change it, then everything is far too small to read clearly.

Currently, I believe Apple have made the right decision to go with 100ppi on most of their screens. It's the perfect balance between workspace, and clarity for reading.


Note: my figures may not add up correctly, but you should be able to get the general idea of how it's supposed to work from this. (it is 3:15 am now here, so I'm not thinking entirely clearly)
 

wide

macrumors 6502a
May 17, 2004
746
0
NYC
TheMdude said:
If they upgrade the screens at NAB on any or all of the PowerBooks, do you think that will mean another 6 months until a major processor update? I really think they need to upgrade the processors soon, the current G4's are getting very stale in the PowerBooks. C'mon Freescale MPC8641D :D

New displays would be nice, but I think a speed bump in the PowerBooks is more important at this point. The 167 MHz fsb is downright disgraceful! I can only hope they will announce upgrades at WWDC...but only 2 months from new displays?

Oh, and the Windows font scaling is ASS! It doesn't even change the font size on buttons, wtf? Windows is teh suXors...but we all know that ;)

there won't be powerbook updates at NAB. I think that we're going to see the next powerbooks (with a freescale processor) either at WWDC (the earliest) or at that expo in France (september-october?)
 
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