How about some competition?

[whocares]

I think we might be over-complicating this; and asking for a mod for a brand new forum is probably the quickest way to lose the forum. Why don't we have a go - following the sensible rules as to getting permission and criticising - and see how it goes?

I think we're all grown up enough to handle following the rules of resizing your image to no bigger than 800x600 and posting it. If we're not doing a competition per se, then it's going be less of an issue whether the images are anonymous. But if we feel that's essential, then why don't we set up a gmail address to mail the resized/corrected image to? Give two or three regular posters the password so that the burden doesn't fall on one person and they can post them at the appropriate time..

I think you're right, but I've learnt to be careful. We want to keep this forum open
Maybe we could have 2-3 designated members to make sure all is running smoothly and be responsible for reporting bad posts (my main concern with this whole assignement idea is creating more work for the mods, because that *is* the fastest way to get the forum closed).
I don't personally think that anonymity is a big deal. I'm all for posting artwork and claiming it. I think if it all goes nicely, newbies and amateurs (I'm one myslf) won't be afraid to post.

 

[efoto]

I think you're right, but I've learnt to be careful. We want to keep this forum open
Maybe we could have 2-3 designated members to make sure all is running smoothly and be responsible for reporting bad posts (my main concern with this whole assignement idea is creating more work for the mods, because that *is* the fastest way to get the forum closed).
I don't personally think that anonymity is a big deal. I'm all for posting artwork and claiming it. I think if it all goes nicely, newbies and amateurs (I'm one myslf) won't be afraid to post.

I would tend to agree with whocares on this. Perhaps there is a little too much thought going into it, but I'd rather be over-prepared than under. I would hope we can police ourselves, but in the past that has proven difficult, especially with the topic of photography

So if we say monthly (or tri-weekly, that could work too ) we collectively come up with an assignment, then we have x amount of time to go shoot/process said assignment, and post as we get finished? Is that sounding like what everyone wants?
I think we are in agreement that we can (attempt to) police ourselves and stay mature. Comments are open to those who post their own work, etc. whocares list was pretty good, I'd say we function off of that and alter it as we see fit when the time comes.

 

[Lau]

This sounds like fun. I second (third, fourth?!) the emphasis to not getting over-competitive about it. I'm all for a bit of healthy competition, just not if it descends into crazy rivalry.

 

[podex]

competitions always good

 

[Abstract]

Great idea. I think we should run it monthly though. Even every 2 weeks would be a bit of an overkill/nightmare to organise/difficult to stick to

Yeah, I think 2 weeks is too short if you include a voting period, and 1 month is too long. Make it 3 weeks for submission of your "final product", and 1 week for "voting" and critiquing, and it makes more sense to me.

Put a very clear submission date so that nobody argues about when the 3 week period ended, and when it began and such. That could happen.

I'm not sure we can actually limit this, but it would be nice if comments only came from those who posted work themselves....that way it would be a bit of trading instead of just criticism from random people.

I think most people here are nice enough, but when you comment on someone else's work it's easier to do so when you know they have nothing to comment back on. It's almost like a self-check if we require an image upload to makes comments because then no one would get to rash because then the onslaught would find its way back to them

Brilliant idea. If you don't submit an image, you shouldn't comment. Or maybe you can pick a favourite, but not a single critique can come from you even if you think it's useful. This should be strictly enforced.

 

[iGary]

I think some of these would be good rules:

1. No "lecturing" or condescending explanations about someone's picture. It should be something along the line of: "I like the colors and how you framed it, but you might want to sharpen it a bit in Photoshop," not "Looks really dull." The key is to help people learn. Heck I love it when people over at Fred Miranda critique my work. I learn loads.

2. No "Oh, I took the liberty of fixing it in Photoshop FOR you." That's just showing off IMO. Tell the person how to do it in Photoshop and let them give it a shot.

In other words, act like adults.

 

[Applespider]

2. No "Oh, I took the liberty of fixing it in Photoshop FOR you." That's just showing off IMO. Tell the person how to do it in Photoshop and let them give it a shot.

In other words, act like adults.

Good points but on 2, I wouldn't mind someone 'fixing' one of my shots if they broke down exactly how they'd done it so I could repeat it on some of the other shots from the same location/period and learn.

Even if someone says why not try putting a filter on it and sharpening it, it's sometimes hard (for those who haven't done much processing before) to envisage exactly what kind of difference it can make so they might not bother. Showing what can be done and giving instructions on how to achieve and what options you have to vary effects might be very useful to some - perhaps just asking if someone would mind would be enough? Or for the poster of the image to comment that they're happy for people to work on the image - there's going to be a limit regardless of what folks can do since they won't be working with the full size image.

 

[iGary]

Good points but on 2, I wouldn't mind someone 'fixing' one of my shots if they broke down exactly how they'd done it so I could repeat it on some of the other shots from the same location/period and learn.

Even if someone says why not try putting a filter on it and sharpening it, it's sometimes hard (for those who haven't done much processing before) to envisage exactly what kind of difference it can make so they might not bother. Showing what can be done and giving instructions on how to achieve and what options you have to vary effects might be very useful to some - perhaps just asking if someone would mind would be enough? Or for the poster of the image to comment that they're happy for people to work on the image - there's going to be a limit regardless of what folks can do since they won't be working with the full size image.

I agree. I think the key is everyone really has to act like adults and keep the "show off" factor to a miniumum. This is an opportunity to share.

 

[efoto]

Yeah, I think 2 weeks is too short if you include a voting period, and 1 month is too long. Make it 3 weeks for submission of your "final product", and 1 week for "voting" and critiquing, and it makes more sense to me.

Put a very clear submission date so that nobody argues about when the 3 week period ended, and when it began and such. That could happen.

Brilliant idea. If you don't submit an image, you shouldn't comment. Or maybe you can pick a favourite, but not a single critique can come from you even if you think it's useful. This should be strictly enforced.

If we started a new assignment the first Monday of every month, and had it due on the third Wednesday (something like this, these are arbitrary) and we had the last week and a half to edit/comment/learn, I think that would be good.

I really like the idea that if you don't post you shouldn't comment, I think it would really help to keep the playing field equal and, as iGary has stated, help keep the "showing off" to a minimum. If someone can make comments on what should be done but can't show it, it doesn't really help that much. I often know what I should do, but not how to do it....that doesn't really help anyone. I'd like to see your images before your comments, then we can exchange what we did instead of being lectured.

 

[Bote]

I think this is a great idea. I am a "newbie" to MR and Photography and I have no issues posting. I have been posting pics on Deviantart for about a month now and am used to negative comments. It would be nice to keep them to a minimum but after seeing the way posts degrade here I am not sure that is possible. You sort of have to expect some negatives but the idea about only people who submit posting comments is a good idea.

I do feel however that limiting pics to ones that are taken manually would keep a lot of newer photographers from posting. Maybe have one for new photographers and one for the more experienced?

 

[whocares]

1. (...) The key is to help people learn. Heck I love it when people over at Fred Miranda critique my work. I learn loads.

2. No "Oh, I took the liberty of fixing it in Photoshop FOR you." That's just showing off IMO. Tell the person how to do it in Photoshop and let them give it a shot.

1. This should be the primary objective of the assignments and discussion.

2. We need strict(ish) rules for Photoshopping. I think it's acceptable to PS another's artwork if: 1. artwork owner explicitly agrees & 2. all PS is explained in details.

Point 2. however raises a further question: what is acceptable use of PS? Many members may not have PS Elements, let alone Photoshop "the pro one", so I think we need to keep any PShopping to simple stuff that most photo programs can do.

In other words, act like adults.

Here's to hoping
When I have time later this evening I'll try and sum up all the thoughts in this thread into some formal set of rules (that will be open to debate obviously).

efoto, I like your first Monday-third Wednesday scheme. This will leave us plenty of time for the assignments and should fit in quite well with most people's own schedules (having it day-based and not date-based is important IMHO).

Looks like we almost there.
First assignment of Monday Dec 5th?

 

[Mr. Anderson]

I like the idea and I'm in.

The best suggestion so far would be to submit them anonymously and then have them voted on in a poll.

The biggest issue here, like with all competitions is the logistics involved of getting them organized, especially if there are a lot of submissions. I'll talk it over with the other mods and hopefully we can come up with something that will work.

One other thing, only one submission per entry and it has to be taken during the time of the competition (so we'll need to see that metadata ) If you're shooting film, well, that might be out of the question, but I don't think many here will be shooting film.

I also think another competition forum will need to be created - we'll see.

D

 

[whocares]

I do feel however that limiting pics to ones that are taken manually would keep a lot of newer photographers from posting. Maybe have one for new photographers and one for the more experienced?

I don't think segragating pros and amateurs is a good idea. It's all about the "artist's eye" and interpratation of the assignment IMHO, not about technique and equipment. The assignments are a good way to improve technique (shooting and digital darkroom) so I think we should all post together and benefit from everyone's advice.

 

[whocares]

I like the idea and I'm in.

The best suggestion so far would be to submit them anonymously and then have them voted on in a poll.

The biggest issue here, like with all competitions is the logistics involved of getting them organized, especially if there are a lot of submissions. I'll talk it over with the other mods and hopefully we can come up with something that will work.

One other thing, only one submission per entry and it has to be taken during the time of the competition (so we'll need to see that metadata ) If you're shooting film, well, that might be out of the question, but I don't think many here will be shooting film.

I also think another competition forum will need to be created - we'll see.

D

At last, a word from the mods

Can't meta data be forged?
I think we'll have to rely on honesty on that one

 

[Mr. Anderson]

At last, a word from the mods

Can't meta data be forged?
I think we'll have to rely on honesty on that one

Not the camera info as far as I know....

D

 

[efoto]

I like the idea and I'm in.

^
^ Woohoo, a mod is involved
^

The best suggestion so far would be to submit them anonymously and then have them voted on in a poll.

I think that would be if we wanted to crown a 'winner' for each month, but that was discussed a little bit further up and it seems like more members are interested in simply sharing unique perspectives on each assignment. I'm fine submitting my works under my own name, it makes it easier to ask questions (others asking me or me asking others) when you can reference "my submission for December's assignment"....

The biggest issue here, like with all competitions is the logistics involved of getting them organized, especially if there are a lot of submissions. I'll talk it over with the other mods and hopefully we can come up with something that will work.

Getting it organized is one thing that we could definitely use some help on, but I'm not sure we really have to have it tip-top and polished....since it seemed like voting/awarding didn't catch. I'm actually more interested in posting/learning monthly now then winning a specific month, so perhaps we don't need that much structure.

I guess what I see is that there needs to be a thread at the beginning of each month, perhaps overlapping the previous assignment, to decide the upcoming assignment. The new thread should be started at the first day of every month (assuming someone can get to it then) to decide the new assignment, and the last thread ends when the next assignment begins (which theoretically is the first Monday of the new month). That gives a fluctuating timeline to figure out new assignments, but it really doesn't have to take that many people to come up with an assignment I suppose.

Perhaps assignments could be submitted through PM to a 'photo mod' or mod that is involved with this idea. I'd be willing to filter assignment ideas through PM regardless, if that is how we choose to proceed. If we do it through PM assignment ideas can be submitted all month long, or anytime really. I can keep a running spreadsheet of the ideas and select one each month to shoot (after some collaboration with a few members to help decide )

One other thing, only one submission per entry and it has to be taken during the time of the competition (so we'll need to see that metadata ) If you're shooting film, well, that might be out of the question, but I don't think many here will be shooting film.

Agreed, one submission per member per assignment. You can do revisions over the course of the month/assignment, but then just replace your original submission with the revised one and edit the text to show what revision you are on so we can track with you. If other members want to help PS certain images, those can be re-submitted as revisions as well. Hopefully this keeps the assignment threads shorter so they are more inviting to browse.
We could also implement a rule about posting questions before the last week....perhaps the three 'working' weeks only allow one post per member, that being their submission. The last week which is share/edit/question, the posts can flow once all of the submissions are in (making them the top-most posts).

 

[Mr. Anderson]

If its agreed that people aren't worried about anonymous submissions, then you just start a new thread in with the competition name and your user name.

Also, it should be noted that if this is to be a learning experience, everyone plays nice. Any crap, and that will be strictly enforced, people will be booted.

As far as I'm concerned, its not the hardware you're shooting with, its what you take a picture of and the results that count.

D

 

[whocares]

Also, it should be noted that if this is to be a learning experience, everyone plays nice. Any crap, and that will be strictly enforced, people will be booted.

Agreed. This is were we need help from the mods. Once the rules are set in stone, we need to have them strictly enforced with the fear of the mighty mods. I think the threat of being banned for breaking the rules should be clearly stated.

As far as I'm concerned, its not the hardware you're shooting with, its what you take a picture of and the results that count.

Agreed.

----

A propos of the schedule and submitting of artwork, how about (as per efoto - modified):
* 1st Monady of month: assignment begins
* 3rd Monday of month: assignments due
* 3rd Wednesday of month: submissions closed - discussion may begin.

Separating submissions and discussion are important IMHO: 1. not to influence late submissions & 2. get all the submissions together at the beginning of the thread.

We still need to define howthe assignments will be chosen. Do I hear poll?

 

[njmac]

I like this idea. Has anyone PM'd a mod about it?

EDIT: never mind, Mr. Anderson is here. I walked away from the thread for a little while, and didn't refresh the page.

 

[efoto]

A propos of the schedule and submitting of artwork, how about (as per efoto - modified):
* 1st Monady of month: assignment begins
* 3rd Monday of month: assignments due
* 3rd Wednesday of month: submissions closed - discussion may begin.

Separating submissions and discussion are important IMHO: 1. not to influence late submissions & 2. get all the submissions together at the beginning of the thread.

We still need to define howthe assignments will be chosen. Do I hear poll?

Agreed on all the stuff before ^. I don't think that many people are worried about anonymous posting, they are more concerned with being torn apart with comments so if we are strict about helping people learn then it shouldn't be a problem.

I like the above submission guidelines whocares but I don't see a difference between "3rd Monday: Assignments Due" and "3rd Wednesday: Submissions Closed - Discussions May Begin". Oh wait a second....were you incorporating time for time-zones? or did you get lucky on that?
I do think it is important to have all the submissions at the beginning of the thread, which is why I stated no discussion until after the submissions are due. We also need to enforce that once submissions are closed, no more will be accepted, as it would complicate things something fierce

As far as defining the assignments....we can either have a poll about each months assignment, or submit them somehow and randomly select them. The only fear with having a poll for this, a discussion for that, etc etc, is that this singular idea turn into three or four threads that we all have to follow...I'd like it if we could have it be one somehow. Is there a way we can run a poll with the option of 'no responses'? We could start each assignment with a poll defining that assignment, open for three days (arbitrary). Once the poll is closed, the winning bid is the assignment for that month. So the poll is the first post, then images thereafter until the 3rd Wednesday when submissions are in and posting starts.....make sense?

• 1st of each month Poll is posted to determine assignment.
• 1st Monday of each month assignment begins.
• 3rd Monday assignments due.
• 3rd Wednesday submissions closed, discussions may ensue.
• , rinse, repeat.

This still doesn't solve how we get topics into the poll....do we want to submit them to a member or can we setup a place to send them somehow? I think everyone should be free to recommend ideas for the assignments and then we can collectively vote to choose the assignment for each month.

 

[Abstract]

About having a separate contest for pros and amateurs:

As an absolute amateur with no skills (other than the requisite computer hacking skillz and nunchuku skills), I still feel that the best photo should win, whether the photo was shot in auto mode, or whether it was shot using a P&S or DSLR (which I still don't have because I just bought a surfboard and am going to Thailand )........is irrelevent. If you know what you're doing and still get beaten by someone using a P&S in Auto mode, then that's tough luck for you.

 

[efoto]

About having a separate contest for pros and amateurs:

As an absolute amateur with no skills (other than the requisite computer hacking skillz and nunchuku skills), I still feel that the best photo should win, whether the photo was shot in auto mode, or whether it was shot using a P&S or DSLR (which I still don't have because I just bought a surfboard and am going to Thailand )........is irrelevent. If you know what you're doing and still get beaten by someone using a P&S in Auto mode, then that's tough luck for you.

I completely agree. The type of camera does not limit (save for some extreme cases/settings) the types of images you can get out of it. I think it would be better to have a singular submission spot for all camera images, regardless of type/user skill. Hell I'm a beginner too, I just realized a hobby and devoted some funds to it and ended up with nice stuff. I don't claim to know what I'm doing, my nice shots are my lucky ones

 

[Cooknn]

I'm gonna keep my pano's out of the mix - I need to learn how to shoot good stills and this should be a great opportunity

 

[Lacero]

I think some of these would be good rules: <snip> In other words, act like adults.

Where's the fun in that?

Good rules!