Nor should you. It is called choice, now available up to 128 GB of UMA RAM. Excellent!
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How can Apple sell a Mac with 8GB of RAM in 2023 and call it "Pro"
- Thread starter parseckadet
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It's a nonsense if you're doing professional-level computing from a number-crunching perspective. But on the other hand if you only do some Word processing, an odd spreadsheet, some email and browse youtube it's probably far more than enough. So lots of people will buy it and lots won't.
If it's not fit for your use cases either buy an upgraded one, a different model, or one of the many powerful PCs out there. I can't really get annoyed that the rest of the world don't need as powerful a laptop as I do, as long as I have the correct upgrade options available. I spent years with more storage in my old MBP with removable drives than was available in the newer ones no matter how much money you had. Sure, I can happily get annoyed at some of the upgrade costs and if Apple are overcharging me for those upgrades, but I can't complain the lowest base-spec one is crap for what I want.
So is your annoyance really that the upgrades are too expensive? It's a bit hard to not call it a Pro when it has the same chassis/display/keyboard/etc as the higher CPU/GPU/memory Pros. I think the least Pro bit is it only supporting one external monitor. But it may happily suit a Pro salesperson, or a Pro accountant, or a Pro wrestler?
If it's not fit for your use cases either buy an upgraded one, a different model, or one of the many powerful PCs out there. I can't really get annoyed that the rest of the world don't need as powerful a laptop as I do, as long as I have the correct upgrade options available. I spent years with more storage in my old MBP with removable drives than was available in the newer ones no matter how much money you had. Sure, I can happily get annoyed at some of the upgrade costs and if Apple are overcharging me for those upgrades, but I can't complain the lowest base-spec one is crap for what I want.
So is your annoyance really that the upgrades are too expensive? It's a bit hard to not call it a Pro when it has the same chassis/display/keyboard/etc as the higher CPU/GPU/memory Pros. I think the least Pro bit is it only supporting one external monitor. But it may happily suit a Pro salesperson, or a Pro accountant, or a Pro wrestler?
Apple must either be super confident in the capability of their unified memory (which is fair, unified memory has its advantages), or super stingy. It's likely both.
Also, I think if Apple had simply named it something different ("MacBook" instead of "MacBook Pro"), you wouldn't be complaining, even though it was the same exact device.
Also, I think if Apple had simply named it something different ("MacBook" instead of "MacBook Pro"), you wouldn't be complaining, even though it was the same exact device.
Ridiculous given the meagre cost of ram. Even smartphones will have 16gb (of faster LPDDR5X ram apple is not using) as standard for some flagships next year. Apple should've made at least 12 standard. 8 might be sufficient for some workflows, but it is about relative comparison for a device positioned as MBP is for its price. People buy MBP because they want more then just sufficient. $200 chromebook is sufficient for a lot of workflows, but people still prefer macs. The chromebook's sufficiency does not justify selling it for $1200. Also, its curious how supposedly iphones and pro laptops now need same amount of ram.
Their answer: Because that services a significant segment of users.
Many people still use a computer for Safari, Pages, Numbers, and Keynote. And that's about it. They run no professional software. They use the cloud for documents and corporate software. They never run into any issues with these specs.
So, to make the entry price as low as possible and to ultimately make more profit (they are in the business of making money at the end of the day), they will stick with this until 8GB becomes like 4GB (not enough) 256GB become like 128GB.
M3 + a fan + a killer display and form factor + decent array of ports will more than service a decent group of people who need more than an Air.
Like it or not, this is what they would tell you.
It's not enough for me, but it's enough for a segment of users to justify keeping it.
Many people still use a computer for Safari, Pages, Numbers, and Keynote. And that's about it. They run no professional software. They use the cloud for documents and corporate software. They never run into any issues with these specs.
So, to make the entry price as low as possible and to ultimately make more profit (they are in the business of making money at the end of the day), they will stick with this until 8GB becomes like 4GB (not enough) 256GB become like 128GB.
M3 + a fan + a killer display and form factor + decent array of ports will more than service a decent group of people who need more than an Air.
Like it or not, this is what they would tell you.
It's not enough for me, but it's enough for a segment of users to justify keeping it.
That’s why there is options. Some people want a fast Mac but don’t have 2.5k to spend.
Well I am in agreement with your post with this caveat: Safari, Pages, Numbers and Keynote ARE professional software packages if your profession requires you to use the web, write and read document and spreadsheets, make and give presentations.
Frankly that is exactly what most professional people do.
How can Apple still sell a Mac with 8GB of RAM in 2023 when even their phones now have 8GB of RAM
Fixed your title for you
Then don't buy it
Yes nothing at all...well...except for ProMotion, the much more boomier speakers, the Liquid Retina XDR display (which was the core reason why I bought a M1 Pro 14 inch,) the vastly longer battery life, the fact it has an HDMI and SDXC slot, and an actual heatsink so it doesn't thermal throttle. Not everything needs absurd horsepower to be "pro." The M1/M2 Pro were overkill for a lot of average users who bought the laptop just to have that amazing display and legacy ports back.
Also are we still having the "THIS MACBOOK PRO ISN'T REALLY PRO DOES THE PRO NAME MEAN ANYTHING ANYMORE?!" argument? It's been 4 years and yet y'all can't let it go. Seriously ever since the iPhone 11 Pro it's been memememememememememe and nonstop whinging and complaining about a god damn marketing buzzword. I'm so tired of it.
Ohhhhhh so now it's a pro machine? Literally the previous sentence you said there was nothing "pro" about it.
Also again, the display. A lot of people just want the display, like myself. I bought just a base spec M1 Pro 14 inch just for the display. The performance gains of M1 Pro over regular M1 was just a bonus, but I have no use out of the pro chips since I don't do anything that would warrant the extra horsepower. Not to mention the M1/M2 Pros drain the battery fast since there's not as many efficiency cores in them compared to the regular M1/M2s, it's mostly just high performance cores.
The battery life of the M3 14 inch is up to 22 hours, versus the M3 Pro 14 inch which is up to 18. That alone makes it a compelling case for purchase being able to use the laptop a lot longer on a single charge. Trading raw power for efficiency. I'd say that's pretty pro.
Which it's base with the Pro and Max chips too, yet those are considered "pro." And they also sell 1TB models at retail so you can get that instead
If you're referring to the lack of an extra USB-C port, sure. That was a weird decision that I'm really wondering why they did that. Is it that big a deal having one less USB-C port? Ehh, not really. I only ever use one USB-C port on my 14 inch anyhow. Which ultimately won't matter much since the HDMI and SDXC is still there, and said HDMI is 2.1.
Bro it's not better "barely," it's better than the 13 inch by a landslide. The 13 inch still had the touch bar and didn't have a fullsized keyboard, the 14 inch does. The 13 inch was 1080p60 while the 14 inch is 1440p120 with ProMotion, and on top of that the screen is Liquid Retina XDR. The 13 inch only had two USB-C ports while the 14 inch has two USB-C, Magsafe, HDMI 2.1, and SDXC. The webcam on the 13 inch was 720p versus the 14 inch being 1080p
So to call all that "just barely better" is laughable considering how horribly outdated the design of the 13 inch was. Combined with the fact the M3 is capable of raytracing adds onto the improvements. And this isn't considering the price tag, which is gonna drop more and more when the monthly Mac sales start happening.
So you weren't planning on getting a Macbook Pro to begin with, you just wanted a big display. What was the point of this thread then? The only point with merit is the fact that M3 is 8gb of RAM base spec, but that's a problem with M3's base spec config, not the laptop.
This is my problem with the base config. I own and love a base M1 Air. 8 GB is plenty for what I do.
That computer was also almost $1,000 cheaper than the base MBP.
What does a professional do? Who is a professional? Isn’t a professional someone who gets paid to do something that’s not just a hobby? My professional spouse runs a small business and uses a base model MacBook Air.
I know there are various definitions of professional versus nonprofessional but there is not a fully accepted clear line that covers all instances. Some people say salary versus non-salary or college degree+ versus not or if people can leave their work at work or not (more here: https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/finding-a-job/nonprofessional-vs-professional-jobs). All of those definitions have shortcomings.
Regardless of who counts as a "pro", even if we only look at people who are clearly "professionals" we see a huge range in computer needs.
I’m a scientist and professor. I’m by any definition a professional. Most of what I need a computer for could be done on a base MacBook Air, although some of my work requires a high performance cluster. Most of my colleagues could only use a base model MacBook Air and have no problems doing their work (in fact, given the age of some of the computers used, a new base model MBA would be a huge upgrade -- yay for academia!). All many need is a computer to use Word, store files, deal with email, use a web browser, create some PowerPoint slides, and maybe run some statistical analyses (do not require much computational power).
One professional just needs to run something like Word and a web browser. Another professional needs TBs of RAM. Options exist for both types of professionals (other than the TBs of RAM situation and Macs).
Would I buy a computer for myself with 8 GB of RAM? No, but my spouse and most of my colleagues (PhDs, MDs) wouldn't notice the difference between 8GB and 16GB of RAM. The base MBA works without problems for them. The base 14" MBP is like that to many people -- sufficient from a RAM perspective and otherwise an amazing computer.
Now, I'm not agreeing with Apple's decision to start with 8GB of RAM, but it's sufficient for many professionals and individuals, so I understand their decision from a business perspective.
I know there are various definitions of professional versus nonprofessional but there is not a fully accepted clear line that covers all instances. Some people say salary versus non-salary or college degree+ versus not or if people can leave their work at work or not (more here: https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/finding-a-job/nonprofessional-vs-professional-jobs). All of those definitions have shortcomings.
Regardless of who counts as a "pro", even if we only look at people who are clearly "professionals" we see a huge range in computer needs.
I’m a scientist and professor. I’m by any definition a professional. Most of what I need a computer for could be done on a base MacBook Air, although some of my work requires a high performance cluster. Most of my colleagues could only use a base model MacBook Air and have no problems doing their work (in fact, given the age of some of the computers used, a new base model MBA would be a huge upgrade -- yay for academia!). All many need is a computer to use Word, store files, deal with email, use a web browser, create some PowerPoint slides, and maybe run some statistical analyses (do not require much computational power).
One professional just needs to run something like Word and a web browser. Another professional needs TBs of RAM. Options exist for both types of professionals (other than the TBs of RAM situation and Macs).
Would I buy a computer for myself with 8 GB of RAM? No, but my spouse and most of my colleagues (PhDs, MDs) wouldn't notice the difference between 8GB and 16GB of RAM. The base MBA works without problems for them. The base 14" MBP is like that to many people -- sufficient from a RAM perspective and otherwise an amazing computer.
Now, I'm not agreeing with Apple's decision to start with 8GB of RAM, but it's sufficient for many professionals and individuals, so I understand their decision from a business perspective.
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You could've said the same thing on Sunday. When they were selling the 13 inch M2 Macbook Pro and you can say that now. Nothing has changed at all from that perspective.
I don't have an issue with this product, it's actually good. Really smart even. Lets look at why.
The only reason this starts with 8GB of RAM is to make the entry price seem lower which is more enticing to people to get them to start looking at the product.
The M2 13 inch MSRP in the US was $1299 for 8GB of RAM and 256 GB of storage.
The new 14 inch is $1599 for 8/512. The jump to 512GB cost $200. So really the equivalent SKU is $1499 for the M2 version.
The M2 16/512 13 inch cost $1699. The M3 version with 16/512 costs $1799.
That means Apple has increased the cost of the machine by $100 overall. Added HDMI and SD ports, a hugely better display, larger battery, better speakers, a better webcam, and given it WiFi 6e.
An M3 with 16GB/512GB config costs $1799. Which is $200 less than the M3 Pro chip version. Apple is only charging for the difference in the chips at that point. Which is actually giving consumers more choice in a way.
The Pro chassis is incredible and Apple knows it and they know their base chips are more than capable for most people but the 13 inch chassis was super dated. Offering the M3 in it gives people a cheaper laptop to buy and it's easier than spinning up a new production line for a revamped 13 inch Pro machine.
Actual objective problems with the new announcements?
- The M3 still only supports 1 external display. This is OUTRAGEOUS after 2 previous apple silicon generations.
- The M3 Pro got switched to 6P+6E and loses 50GB/s on memory bandwidth. Means that perf for actually intensive stuff is going to be lower than it could've been comapred to the 8P/4E config.
- Memory upgrade pricing is still just straight up robbery.
edits: fixed spelling
I don't have an issue with this product, it's actually good. Really smart even. Lets look at why.
The only reason this starts with 8GB of RAM is to make the entry price seem lower which is more enticing to people to get them to start looking at the product.
The M2 13 inch MSRP in the US was $1299 for 8GB of RAM and 256 GB of storage.
The new 14 inch is $1599 for 8/512. The jump to 512GB cost $200. So really the equivalent SKU is $1499 for the M2 version.
The M2 16/512 13 inch cost $1699. The M3 version with 16/512 costs $1799.
That means Apple has increased the cost of the machine by $100 overall. Added HDMI and SD ports, a hugely better display, larger battery, better speakers, a better webcam, and given it WiFi 6e.
An M3 with 16GB/512GB config costs $1799. Which is $200 less than the M3 Pro chip version. Apple is only charging for the difference in the chips at that point. Which is actually giving consumers more choice in a way.
The Pro chassis is incredible and Apple knows it and they know their base chips are more than capable for most people but the 13 inch chassis was super dated. Offering the M3 in it gives people a cheaper laptop to buy and it's easier than spinning up a new production line for a revamped 13 inch Pro machine.
Actual objective problems with the new announcements?
- The M3 still only supports 1 external display. This is OUTRAGEOUS after 2 previous apple silicon generations.
- The M3 Pro got switched to 6P+6E and loses 50GB/s on memory bandwidth. Means that perf for actually intensive stuff is going to be lower than it could've been comapred to the 8P/4E config.
- Memory upgrade pricing is still just straight up robbery.
edits: fixed spelling
You hit the nail on the head. Are you use a computer as part of your job to earn a living? Guess what, you’re a Pro user, regardless of what your job is.
The majority of the 'real world' still uses the Windows platform so not a good comparison.
Windows users need a minimum of 16Gb of Ram, yet some need more, depending on the software used.
This is MR so obviously Mac users/Apple lovers will fight vehemently for Apple.
So petty that even new users create an account to downvote the comments they don't like, like: AlexMac89
The 8Gb/Apple Mac vs not discussion/fight continues on.
Buy whatever you want but don't compare the 8Gb ram to people who uses NON-Mac OS.
It's like the Mac vs Windows fight from Decades past.
Poor butthurt fanboy downvoters.
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This guy gets it.
My professional wife uses her M1 Air for work after 3 years. I honestly would have thought she'd have started complaining about it by now but other than wearing the letters off the keycaps, she's not complained about anything. Base model, zero upgrades. Oldest has an M2 Air she's using for college, think we bumped the SSD but that was it. Zero issues. I'm looking at getting an M3 Pro Pro when they go on refurb simply because I want the Black, but otherwise I'd get the non-Pro Pro with maybe a bump in RAM, just because I like having extra for things. 8 Gb is fine unless you need it and if you need it, you know it, and aren't buying the 8 Gb model. That doesn't mean it isn't a "Pro" model, especially if professionals are using it for work.
They should have at LEAST put 12 GB of RAM in the low-end model.
Except, that Apple still wins. Voting with my dollar is the most effective way to tell a company what I think about their products. But why would paying more discourage them from doing it next release?
I think that voting with my dollar would be telling Apple that until they become serious about Pro machines I’ll be buying a PC.
You're a professor and unfamiliar with what constitutes a profession?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional
For example, engineering is a profession whereby there are governing bodies and membership requirements to be considered as a working professional engineer. An engineering graduate that is not accredited via membership cannot legally call themselves a "professional engineer."
Obviously this doesn't apply to marketing products like 'MacBook Pro.' It means nothing by any objective standard, just a way to make buyers think they're buying something 'high end' regardless of whether it is (and in this case, it's debatable). A "Pro" laptop with the non-"Pro" chip seems to be a stretch by even their own silly marketing terms.
I don’t think the majority of users would consider them a “pro” user. It’s not like a sport where if your paid to do it then your a Pro.
Pro means those that power users, or users that need a lot of power. They are running memory, CPU, and/or GPU intensive apps. That’s why we complain when Apple calls a system with 8 GB RAM and supports a single display a “Pro” system.
Right, so pretty much any computer from the last decade. Why wouldn't those people just buy an Air, anyways?
The never-ending Apple dichotemy of it's so incredibly fast and powerful -- what a premium experience, and it's fine/adequate for the super basic user / of course it's slow, it's already THREE years old!.
Sorry about that. I'm not sure how I completely misread your post.
It seems to me they are using the same base board as the iMac.