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nathansz

macrumors 65816
Jul 24, 2017
1,291
1,475
I might be missing something here guys, but we're talking about a desktop device, not a laptop ... has anyone heard of networks and NAS's ? 256GB is fine, nothing's really stored on the desktop anyway ... I've 3x Mac Mini M1's, all 256GB (2x16GB RAM, 1x8GB RAM) and a Studio M1 Ultra that was ordered with 512GB, I'd have had 256GB if they'd let me ... none of them are using over half the local 256GB

everyone does things differently

between operating systems and data my desktop computer has around 2 TB of files on it

that doesn't include whatever is used up so far an internal 8TB time machine disk

I do also have a separate 8TB disk for home server, flex and backup storage running off an old Mac mini

Having said all that, my macOS nvme currently is using about 400GB, so 256 certainly would not do, I don't think it would even fit all of my logic samples and instruments
 
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Jimmdean

macrumors 6502a
Mar 21, 2007
644
635
The size of the storage is not as much of an issue as the speed. In most cases it would be better to go with the base storage and then use externals or a NAS for your personal data. But if you need to maintain a certain throughput for your needs then the 256GB might not cut it.
 

Jimmdean

macrumors 6502a
Mar 21, 2007
644
635
The only saving grace about limited storage is that you can use an external drive. Still $200 can easily give you more than 1 TB extra storage whereas Apple offers an extra... +256 GB? Am I seeing this right?

$200 will get you the 4TB Samsung T7 Shield external SSD - an excellent product
 
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eddie_ducking

macrumors member
Oct 18, 2021
95
118
another reason to use external storage ... the Studio (and I assume the Mac Pro) have removable/repairable internal storage, none of the rest of the Mx lineup does ... if your data is constantly changing, your device that should last 5-7 years before needing replacement will need replacing in 3-5 years when the SSD wears out ... just a thought
 

eddie_ducking

macrumors member
Oct 18, 2021
95
118
How are you wearing out ssd in 3 years!?!

The way only I could imagine that is constant swaping, which is guess is likely with the paltry default ram in new Mac’s…

Still seems wildly unlikely
you might be right, but SSDs of old had a roughly 3yr MTBF (though I've no idea what Apple quote for theirs, if indeed the info is out there) and M1 Mini owners were posting on MR threads of 85% health in less than 6 months of use
 

eddie_ducking

macrumors member
Oct 18, 2021
95
118
Removable sure

Where are you getting a replacement without buying another Mac Studio and taking the storage from there?
if the drive can be replaced, and videos are out there of like-for-like drives being able to be swapped by Joe public, then Apple can surely replace the drive for you with a genuine new one (as an out of warranty repair)
 

stevec618

macrumors member
Nov 21, 2018
35
134
One main advantage to the internal drive is its read/write speeds. It's much much faster than any external. If you don't need a super fast drive then just get what suits your needs.
 
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zachz

macrumors regular
Jun 18, 2012
248
833
I got the yellow M1 iMac on launch, 16gb ram with base 256gb drive and I’ve yet to have any storage issues.

For $99 I bought a 1tb crucial x8 external SSD, and also have two 500gb Samsung (a T5 and T7).

The crucial is always plugged into my iMac and I use it for music, photos, games, and random large downloads. I’ve never once needed more storage on the internal drive and I haven’t noticed speed differences.

Then again, my usage would not change if I went to an 8gb iPhone and 64gb MacBook. As long as the OS can function, that’s all I need lol
 
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Analog Kid

macrumors G3
Mar 4, 2003
9,061
11,858
I wrote at worst the speed can be one-sixth, which is about as correct as Apple's claim the M3 iMac is up to 2× faster than the M1.
But you attributed the one-sixth to the drive capacity, which is not correct. That's the problem. I could just as easily construct a test that shows the 512GB drive running significantly slower than the 256GB.

This isn't the same as the M3 being up to twice as fast as the M1-- that's comparing the two machines at their best. Your statement is comparing one at its best against one at its worst.

We've not yet talked about SSD lifetime and wear-leveling, for which a user should leave a large part of the drive empty to allow the SSD controller to equally distribute write commands over all cells.

I'm not sure what Apple is doing behind the scenes with their controller, but it's common to avoid this problem by moving static blocks around periodically if their erase count is sufficiently below average.

Very few users have a need for 8GB of RAM let alone 16. Swap memory usage isn't the big issue either, nor is it 27-inch displays, USB-C peripherals or any of the other topics widely discussed. The base iMacs are just fine as they are.

All of those depend a lot on what someone is using them for. I agree that more people worry about RAM and swap than should-- it's less of a problem than people seem to think it is, and people attribute every hesitation in their machine to RAM because they've become fixated on that one idea.

Still, there's no reason to add to that confusion with more bad information.

And those who pay up $200 for 16GB RAM are likely seeing no gains at all. Only a few seconds the one day when they cut a wedding video or something.

It absolutely depends on what the machine is being used for. If you're working with large datasets, it can make a huge difference. If you're just worried that a Chrome Tab you haven't viewed for an hour got pushed to disk then it's not making much difference at all.

He's making a huge mistake by only thinking about SSDs in terms of storage capacity and not system performance (and longevity). He's making a small mistake by thinking 40% free capacity is space than can be filled with data, without detrimental effects on performance (and longevity). And he's making a bigger mistake by already having decided for 16GB of RAM as the ideal way to future-proof his purchase. This money could buy him the fastest TB drive in the world or double the internal storage and maybe eliminate the need to manage external storage completely. Not to worry about running a lean system and which data to store internally or external is a quality of life improvement.

They explained their use case pretty clearly-- they aren't close to filling the drive and plan to use cloud storage as needed. They already have a 1TB external drive available. There's no indication of what they use the machine for so I can't judge whether the 16GB of RAM is worth while.

Taking the multidimensional view you're proposing is the right approach, but you're over dramatizing it and supplying bad data to support it based on a video made by people who, frankly, seem to know less than you do about system performance.
 

ger19

macrumors regular
Original poster
Sep 30, 2022
115
167
They explained their use case pretty clearly-- they aren't close to filling the drive and plan to use cloud storage as needed. They already have a 1TB external drive available. There's no indication of what they use the machine for so I can't judge whether the 16GB of RAM is worth while.
I’m the opposite of a power user. Mostly surfing (rarely more than a couple tabs open), checking email, word processing (simple letters), Excel (a couple personal financial spreadsheets I maintain) and TurboTax. One of the main reasons I want to move to a Mac is the seamless integration between my phone, iPad and the Desktop. That will add doing things like texts, calendar and pictures from my desktop. Though the pictures will be directed to the external drive.
 
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Analog Kid

macrumors G3
Mar 4, 2003
9,061
11,858
I’m the opposite of a power user. Mostly surfing (rarely more than a couple tabs open), checking email, word processing (simple letters), Excel (a couple personal financial spreadsheets I maintain) and TurboTax. One of the main reasons I want to move to a Mac is the seamless integration between my phone, iPad and the Desktop. That will add doing things like texts, calendar and pictures from my desktop. Though the pictures will be directed to the external drive.
Yeah, you're the kind of person that base model is made for. Buy what you're comfortable with, but @JinxVi has a point on the RAM. I don't want to make the mistake of underselling you on specs and leaving you feeling you should have done more, but you may find the RAM isn't giving you a ton of benefit in the short to medium term.

If you're keeping a machine for 10+ years though, peace of mind is worth a lot and it gets amortized over a long period, so do whatever you think you'll be least disappointed by.
 

zombierunner

macrumors 68000
Jan 18, 2011
1,706
2,220
UK
I bought an iMac in 2015 with 256gb and 8gb ram(That's what I could afford back then). Still using it now although I dd upgrade ram to 16gb. I have to use external storage as 256gb isn't enough. I have been wanting to replace my iMac for the past year but I refuse to get the mac studio or mac mini or the smaller iMac. I am hoping a bigger iMac or iMac Pro will come in 2024?
 

picpicmac

macrumors 65816
Aug 10, 2023
1,099
1,553
I am hoping a bigger iMac or iMac Pro will come in 2024?
I'm expecting you to be disappointed.

I'm also likely to buy an M3 (or M3 Pro) Mini and a third party monitor. But I might spring for the ASD (but I also wonder if the current, and original, model of the ASD will be updated in 2024.)
 

FreakinEurekan

macrumors 603
Sep 8, 2011
5,834
2,829
It's worth noting that the OP was talking about an iMac
Valid point. My Mac mini M1 has 512GB storage, and a 4TB NVMe drive in a Thunderbolt enclosure. 4TB seems to be the “sweet spot” in terms of $ per GB… the external cost me under US$300 total around Thanksgiving. So for a little more than the cost of 1TB (and HALF the cost of 2TB) I have 4.5TB. Yes, it’s slower according to BlackMagic but not such that you’d notice in daily use. Plus, I didn’t have to buy the external for like a year after buying the mini (I had a Drobo from my old mini, which I finally shelved due to no further support).

That solution works well on a desktop computer… not as well on a laptop.
 

aj_niner

Suspended
Dec 24, 2023
360
373
Buying an iMac with only 8GB of ram has been discussed ad nauseam, but what about going light on the SSD and getting only a 256GB drive?

I have a windows machine that’s 12 years old. It came with a 120GB SSD and I upgraded it to a 256GB SSD. It’s currently sitting about 60% full and I have a lot of stuff I could take off it like several years of Turbo Tax. I only use it for the system and programs. I have a 1TB drive that I store all my data. I’m going to replicate that on my iMac by using the cloud and an external drive. I’m really looking at the new computer as an opportunity to start over and streamline my system - only keeping the programs and data files I actually use.

Any thoughts on configuring my iMac with only the 256GB SSD? I’m getting 16GB of ram.
If it works for you then it works for you.

Personally, I wish the $1299 iMac 24" M3 defaulted at 16GB RAM & 512GB.

Hell, keep the same MSRP & Mac chip but double RAM & SSD for all their Mac SKUs.
 
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FreakinEurekan

macrumors 603
Sep 8, 2011
5,834
2,829
If it works for you then it works for you.

Personally, I wish the $1299 iMac 24" M3 defaulted at 16GB RAM & 512GB.

Hell, keep the same MSRP & Mac chip but double RAM & SSD for all their Mac SKUs.
Why not that config at $999? Or $599? As long as we’re “wishing” 😉
 
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BeatCrazy

macrumors 603
Jul 20, 2011
5,015
4,368
The size of the storage is not as much of an issue as the speed. In most cases it would be better to go with the base storage and then use externals or a NAS for your personal data. But if you need to maintain a certain throughput for your needs then the 256GB might not cut it.
Actually it's the opposite. For the base models (especially with M3!) the external storage via Thunderbolt is faster than the internal SSD.

For my M1 iMac 256GB, I get internal read/write of 2100/2600GB/s. External 2TB SSD is 2600/2600GB/s.

M3 w/base 256GB is going to be about 1500/1500GB/s, so significantly slower than what you can get with external.
 

ger19

macrumors regular
Original poster
Sep 30, 2022
115
167
Thanks for all the replies. I was thinking of buying my iMac after New Years but I’ll probably wait until I get my taxes filed. I already bought and loaded TurboTax in my old machine.

One question that this thread brought up was saving things on an external drive, like pictures, is better if you always keep your external drive plugged in. Easy enough. But, how do you direct the iMac to store them there in the first place? I envision during the initial startup that the iMac will see my pictures on iCloud associated with my Apple ID and download them (sync them) to the internal SSD. I’d want to have them go directly to the external drive.
 

bcortens

macrumors 65816
Aug 16, 2007
1,296
1,674
Ontario Canada
Why not that config at $999? Or $599? As long as we’re “wishing”
Because the flash storage isn’t that cheap but it is cheaper than Apple makes it out to be.

Additionally if the argument that Apple shouldn’t make Mac’s with more than 256 because that forces people to buy hardware they don’t need suggests that they should actually sell the base iMac with like 64gb of flash because after all, there are users who can get by with that amount and they shouldn’t be forced to buy more.
 

mlody

macrumors 68000
Nov 11, 2012
1,601
1,228
Windy City
there is no wrong or right answer as it all depends on your needs. I have MBA M2 with 16 GB and 1 TB but I have over 400 GB in family photos/videos. I like to keep the originals on my system and back them up to a separate USB drive. Add additional apps etc and I am tipping 500 GB used storage. It will be years before I fill the remaining half but 500 GB would not be enough for me unfortunately. On the other hand my wife has MBA M1 8 GB / 256 GB and that is plenty for her. We use iCloud shared library so she uploads most if not all pictures while only keeping the optimized photos on her system.
 
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