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DreaminDirector

macrumors 6502a
Sep 3, 2002
646
0
Ladera Ranch, CA
isn't it always anyway?

Originally posted by D*I*S_Frontman

It's about gear lust.


Isn't it always though? I guess its partly being a guy and the other part a gadget freak. I agree wholeheartly with D*I*S_Frontman. I, for one, have a Dual 450 G4 and it runs Jag-wire just fine. But something inside of me screams "go faster, bigger, better". I guess that's why I usually hurt myself in extreme sports.
 

Doctor Q

Administrator
Original poster
Staff member
Sep 19, 2002
39,843
7,678
Los Angeles
I was surprised to find that the new Mac arrived with Mac OS X 10.2.1 already installed. I thought I would find a bunch of software updates pending, but the only one was iTunes 3.0.1.

The version of Darwin was compiled only 11 days before this Mac shipped. Now that's up-to-date!
 

scem0

macrumors 604
Jul 16, 2002
7,028
1
back in NYC!
They are already obsolete whenit comes to speed per $, I know I will get flamed but this is how I feel. I dont know why anyone in their right mind would buy a dual 1.25 g4 when they can get a 2.8 GHz pent 4 for cheaper, especially if you dont mind widows. OS X and iApps are good, but not that good. I am staying with apple, because I expect them to have some powerful stuff by this time next year by IBM, and not Motorola. If moto can't make a fast processor, find someone who can. Dont flame me, just acknowledge that this is how I feel. :)
 

jefhatfield

Retired
Jul 9, 2000
8,803
0
i hear some of your points scem 0,

but when os x really grows up with "enough" industry support...or until i stop hearing complaints because apple finally got it "right";

and when macs go 2 ghz;

then who will care if wintels go 3.5 ghz?

will speed be a major issue then?

or will we have to catch up with the wintel world, ghz for ghz? (which i doubt will be necessary once ALL computers are faster than the needs of people)
 

edesignuk

Moderator emeritus
Mar 25, 2002
19,232
2
London, England
Originally posted by ddtlm

And you think that's impressive? Did that on my two year old Linux dual Xeon 700/1mb long ago. Except I was running Quake3 and two seti@homes, since folding@home didn't exist at the time.
I would expect dual 700Mhz w/ 1Mb cache Xeons to perform as you say, they are/were VERY expensive CPU's.
 

scem0

macrumors 604
Jul 16, 2002
7,028
1
back in NYC!
Originally posted by jefhatfield
i hear some of your points scem 0,

but when os x really grows up with "enough" industry support...or until i stop hearing complaints because apple finally got it "right";

and when macs go 2 ghz;

then who will care if wintels go 3.5 ghz?

will speed be a major issue then?

or will we have to catch up with the wintel world, ghz for ghz? (which i doubt will be necessary once ALL computers are faster than the needs of people)

Exactly why I am still with mac. Just waiting until speed isnt an issue, because all comps will be fast as hell, and OS is more important. Waiting for that and a real Kazaa client for mac (and not iSwipe)...
 

DipDog3

macrumors 65816
Sep 20, 2002
1,191
812
If the computer you are using does what you need, why does it matter how fast it is?

I don't have a mac yet, but I am still using a 266Mhz PC and it runs everything that I need pretty well. (for a Windoze machine)

The computer industry is getting to the point where there is no need to upgrade to faster machines.

Really, how much speed do you need? That's the question you need to ask.

And a Mac never becomes obsolete, just sell it on ebay, someone will buy it!
 

MacBandit

macrumors 604
Originally posted by D*I*S_Frontman
I disagree that the segment of the market that drives CPU speed lust is growing smaller. When it comes to computer speed, "perceived value" rules the marketplace, not real computing power being continuously employed by the end user. Here are two automotive analogies:

SUVs: I live in suburban Chicago where 4WD Lexus, BMW, and Mercedes driven by the affluent can be seen on nearly every street. I bet the average usage of 4WD systems to get these people out of a jam occurs maybe once or twice a year. Yes we have harsh winters, but the roads are plowed and sanded/salted as necessary. There is absolutely NO NEED for that kind of performance.

SPORTS CARS: I also see Posche 911s all over the place. Beautiful car that can go from 0-60 in less than five seconds. Top speed of 150 mph. NO ONE can even BEGIN to employ this kind of brute force in the city. You would have to drive to Montana to open the thing up.

In both cases, the bragged upon features are essentially useless to the owner 95+% of the time. But people still buy SUVs and sporty cars in DROVES.

If you are running FCP3, doing audio engineeering, or doing tons of high-end Photoshop rendering work, a powerful computer might lead to productivity increases. Then yearly upgrades are probably a must, as the money you spend on the latest system is actually recouped in increased productivity.

Most of us, however, tap the full strength of our CPUs rarely, and having durable hardware with a stable OS is far more important than a slightly faster system. Heck, I am typing this on my G3/400 Pismo which is my sole computer, and while I will someday do the NewerTech G4/500 upgrade, I am not "suffering" the way it is. I don't know what a "snappy" OS is, but I do know that OS X 10.1.5 seems to be every bit as fast as OS9 was/is, just as stable, and now utterly crash-proof.

I am in a band and my bass player (who engineers our material) wants to get a Mac. I have told him that he should get two: a 12.1 iBook now (best computing value on the planet right now, $ per feature, IMHO) and wait a year for a new tower once the new chips come out. 90% of everything he'll ever do will be easily done by the iBook (WP, web, email, finance, database/spreadsheet, etc., plus it's portable) and the heavy lifting of recording, mixing and mastering up to 48 tracks of 24bit/96khz audio (complete with lots of plug-ins) can be done by the next generation of Macs. The only reason I would ever suggest he wait is that current Macs don't have the raw power to run MOTU's DP @24/96 for 48 tracks w/plug-ins.

But that is a case of actually using close to 100% of system resources to accomplish the task for which you bought the thing. Once he acquires the system, he won't need a new one for years--if EVER. Once your system can do everything you ask it to, reliably, you don't NEED a new computer--EVER.

This discussion is rarely about "need," however. It's about gear lust.

EDIT: Oh, and if your primary system draw is from some GAME (insert your favorite title here), why not just get a dedicated gaming system instead of making your computer a toy?


You're correct and correct again but your confirmed what I said in that the market is shrinking. How many $60,000 Suvs or $100,000 Porche's are sold a year compared to say a Toyota Corolla. I don't don't know the figures but I'm sure the high end vehicles mentioned fit into at the most %5 of the market. How large do you think the market needs to be to poor billions into developing a 5 or 6 Ghz chip when %95 of the people out there are happy with what they have and if they buy a new computer they're going to get something cheap because the cheapes computer out there is faster then what they have.
 

MacBandit

macrumors 604
Originally posted by DipDog3
If the computer you are using does what you need, why does it matter how fast it is?

I don't have a mac yet, but I am still using a 266Mhz PC and it runs everything that I need pretty well. (for a Windoze machine)

The computer industry is getting to the point where there is no need to upgrade to faster machines.

Really, how much speed do you need? That's the question you need to ask.

And a Mac never becomes obsolete, just sell it on ebay, someone will buy it!

You are the person I have been trying to explain to the community. Why do people need faster cpu/computers if what they have already satisfies them. I would say that people like you make up nearly 75% of the market currently and growing.

In reply to some other people saying they are waiting to buy there next Apple when they are so fast speed doesn't matter for the few of us like you that you will always want something faster. I know I will but I'm not willing to wait 2 years for Apple to release something faster. So I bought now and guess what this thing is so fast I could easily wait 4 maybe 5 years. I know this based on how long I kept my last computer and comparring the the equivalent speeds of them when they were new. Meanwhile I will enjoy my new computer in the time it takes Apple to release the next fastest thing.
 

barkmonster

macrumors 68020
Dec 3, 2001
2,134
15
Lancashire
Personally speaking I think a dual 1.25Ghz G4 is a good 2 year mac.

I think no matter what software you're using, if the dual 1.25Ghz G4 is significantly faster than you're current mac and you can afford one it's worth buying. twice the clock speed doesn't equal twice the performance, it never will. That means you'd need apple to bring out a dual 2Ghz G4 before there was something around 50% faster than the 1.25Ghz model.

At the rate apple are progressing I'd say 18 months - 2 years would be long enough for a model of that spec to come out.
 

3777

macrumors 6502
Jul 25, 2002
379
0
Hopefully soon

..........and hopefully they will get rid of the butt ugly "new" Powermac case too.
 

jefhatfield

Retired
Jul 9, 2000
8,803
0
Re: Hopefully soon

Originally posted by 3777
..........and hopefully they will get rid of the butt ugly "new" Powermac case too.

but it's what's under the hood that matters...faster bus, ddr, better video card, more ram supported, etc...

but i hate those vents in the front...ugly;)
 

MacBandit

macrumors 604
Re: Hopefully soon

Originally posted by 3777
..........and hopefully they will get rid of the butt ugly "new" Powermac case too.

After spending some time with my new Dual/DDR I have to say I really like the new case. When the warranty is up on it I'm going to strip the paint from the panels and repaint them black and then it will look really good.
 

3777

macrumors 6502
Jul 25, 2002
379
0
Re: Re: Hopefully soon

Originally posted by MacBandit


After spending some time with my new Dual/DDR I have to say I really like the new case. When the warranty is up on it I'm going to strip the paint from the panels and repaint them black and then it will look really good.

I know the new Powermac must be a great system to own, but I do think the hardware upgrades recently are just too incremental, and I think the 1.25ghz Dual G4 is just a sort term solution to a much larger issue. Apple really needs to upgrade everything in a big way. They shouldn't even be selling stuff with G3 processors anymore, and their low end G4's should be selling for a lot less. I am sure your system will look good, but still, the overall look of the line is definitely a step backwards from the Quicksilver case. I just hope whatever they come up with next is completely different, sleek, and has a 2ghz G5 processor in it:D
 

MacBandit

macrumors 604
Re: Re: Re: Hopefully soon

Originally posted by 3777


I know the new Powermac must be a great system to own, but I do think the hardware upgrades recently are just too incremental, and I think the 1.25ghz Dual G4 is just a sort term solution to a much larger issue. Apple really needs to upgrade everything in a big way. They shouldn't even be selling stuff with G3 processors anymore, and their low end G4's should be selling for a lot less. I am sure your system will look good, but still, the overall look of the line is definitely a step backwards from the Quicksilver case. I just hope whatever they come up with next is completely different, sleek, and has a 2ghz G5 processor in it:D

The looks is definitely and oppinionated thing because I never like the Quicksilver. I thought it was too plain in it's all grey case. I too agree that they need to do something and get faster processors. What I do not agree on is that we are falling behind. The overall system is very comparable to the fastest PCs out there. I do want Apple to wipe the floor with PCs though and have something twice as fast as the fastest PC. Meanwhile though I am not waiting just as I did not wait for the G4 when I got my B/W G3. Meanwhile I will really enjoy this one until they come out with something 4-5 times faster just as this one is about 8-10 times faster then my G3400. Then I will buy the G5 or whatever is out then this will probably be 3-5 years down the road and I do not expect a new chip for at least a year at the earliest and most likely it will be 2 years from what I've read.
 
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