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jnpy!$4g3cwk

macrumors 65816
Feb 11, 2010
1,119
1,302
Just install one of the third party finder add ons that brings back the feature.

I'm pretty sure all of these still support labels:

XtraFinder
TotalFinder
Forklift
Pathfinder

Do any of these allow automatic mapping/global changes between color labels, comments, and tags? I don't use color labels very much, but, I do use finder comments to tag files with particular status. I would like to figure out how to globally change these to tags.
 

jnpy!$4g3cwk

macrumors 65816
Feb 11, 2010
1,119
1,302
It's a matter of adjusting your thinking. Tags give you so much more flexibility and freedom. In your case, you might create a tags called "Complete", "In Progress", and maybe a tag for your work project. Then you could set up a Smart Folder that filters by those tags, so you could quickly see what files are in what state of completion. Really, it can handle whatever kind of organizational system you can think of.

I know Labels have been our friends on the Mac for a long time, but I think it's time to leave that System 7 feature behind...

I just learned something from this discussion. I have long wanted globally-defined tags to allow searching for documents of a certain status-type. So, I am generally happy about tags, although apparently they didn't expect people to have 6 or 7 different tags active on a single file.

I never liked the folder-relativeness of color labels. But, I see from some discussions, that many people actually like that. Not to mention the visibility.

These functions really serve different purposes. I work on projects, and, I need to be able to both label all the files from one project, and also, label the different types of project files, such as something like a master budget rollup file, the same way in every project so that they can easily be gathered together from projects that are in entirely different folder trees.
 

petsounds

macrumors 65816
Jun 30, 2007
1,493
519
I must admit, not having labels forced me to go back to ML about a week ago. I couldn't find folders on my desktop fast enough - especially during seminars or during customer enquiries. It's a bloody disgrace.

Just wondering, is this because of the lack of the full-color background that labels had? I think if Apple tweaked tags so that a file with only one tag looks like a label visually, I think everyone (ok, I'm sure someone will still angry about something) would be happy with that compromise.

Personally, I use Spotlight to find folders and launch apps. Command-Space, type part of the name, hit enter and boom you're there. To me it's faster than trying to hunt for stuff in the Finder, colored or not.
 

noiceT

macrumors 6502a
Jul 7, 2008
549
70
Catalina Wine Mixer
Forgive my directness but that is one of the dumbest things I have read on any forum... EVER!
Whether on MR or CNET or other sites, lots of people used to full-line labels are having MORE DIFFICULTY DOING THEIR WORK NOW!!!

The reason why I use a Mac is because I am visually oriented and visual clues make it easier. I am not a database manager. I do not want to relabel, sorry, retag all my folders and files. I have existing folders that had files with 3 types of labels and I could find the files easily based on the color of the whole line.
If those labels made it easier for visual people like us, why would Apple want to take that away from us? Us visual people are those who bought Macs over windows during the lean years of the mid to late 90s. We kept Apple alive. Now Apple is slapping us down and telling us that there is more utility by typing things out. If you call "progress" forcing people to adjust to something that takes longer to learn and is less useful for them personally, then call me regressive if you want, but your vision of progress is leading down the road to DOS.

Is this Cupertino 2013 or is this Redmond 1984?!

Just because something is old fashioned, dated, or just not the most modern way to do things, doesn't mean its wrong. Some people just prefer the older ways of doing things.

This argument reminds me of old famous designers that never touched computers-all analog, and can produce brilliant work. Verses, the "self taught freelance designer" that learned his trait on lynda.com, and couldn't sketch out a design concept if his life depended on it.
 

xgman

macrumors 603
Aug 6, 2007
5,674
1,380
Forklift still has the labels as well. The problem is that some of us used the labels just to visually highlight certain folders whereas we don't really care about the organizational aspects of the new tags. Also the dots easily get pushed out of frame in certain sized Finder windows.
 

molex

macrumors newbie
Sep 24, 2007
10
0
It's a matter of adjusting your thinking.

No, it's a matter of recognizing that the entire point of labeling something with a color is being able to SEE the color. That's the funny thing about colors... they're VISUAL... so if you create a system based on VISUAL cue like a color... and then make it really really hard to actually SEE the cue... guess what? That system sucks.

I used color labels extensively in my work flows to help me quickly visually recognize the files I needed to work with. That is now 99% ruined. The color dots are NOT quickly visible, and when a window is hovering even a little bit over a labeled item guess what? The label is no longer visible (since the dot gets covered up) and that makes the entire system useless to me.

No big surprise though, Mavericks is crap. Everything on my iMac is slower now, many of my work flows are disrupted, several features I used to rely on are gone or ruined and not a single thing that I can see was improved.

Thanks for nothing Apple. I used to be a huge fanboy, but this crap is ridiculous.
 

petsounds

macrumors 65816
Jun 30, 2007
1,493
519
No, it's a matter of recognizing that the entire point of labeling something with a color is being able to SEE the color. That's the funny thing about colors... they're VISUAL... so if you create a system based on VISUAL cue like a color... and then make it really really hard to actually SEE the cue... guess what? That system sucks.

I already conceded the point that some people use labels purely for file identification instead of an organizational tool. I've seen people do it this way for years at companies I've worked at, and I think (especially when dealing with shared files and central servers) it becomes a giant mess over time. But to each their own. I think the Finder itself needs a reboot, as it's very inefficient at finding and manipulating files.

No big surprise though, Mavericks is crap. Everything on my iMac is slower now, many of my work flows are disrupted, several features I used to rely on are gone or ruined and not a single thing that I can see was improved.

Thanks for nothing Apple. I used to be a huge fanboy, but this crap is ridiculous.

You should never ever install a point-zero release of any version of OS X on a Mac you're using to make money with. Period. There are always problems, incompatibilities, and changes you might not like. I can't think of a 10.x.0 release of OS X that wasn't a bit dodgy. Maybe Snow Leopard, as it was mostly a tune-up. Leopard and Lion were equally rough around the edges as Mavericks. These things get worked out over time.
 

molex

macrumors newbie
Sep 24, 2007
10
0
I already conceded the point that some people use labels purely for file identification instead of an organizational tool. I've seen people do it this way for years at companies I've worked at, and I think (especially when dealing with shared files and central servers) it becomes a giant mess over time. But to each their own. I think the Finder itself needs a reboot, as it's very inefficient at finding and manipulating files.

I can see what you're saying in an environment where multiple people are handling the same files. But for me it's not about organizing files at all, I already have a system for that and since I work in a closed environment what I don't need is yet another "tagging" system for my files. I know where the stuff I want is, and besides that I've got spotlight if I can't find something. Another layer of organization is pointless for me, I just need color labels so I can identify things quickly.

Besides I've never fully understood the point of tags. So now instead of remembering where I put my files I have to remember how I tagged them? How is that any better? To me it's exactly the same thing as a folder hierarchy, except that now "folders" are just called "tags" and instead of "searching a folder" you "search for a tag". How is that any better, or for that matter even any different? It's just a different word for the same thing.

"But you can apply multiple tags" people say. So what? I can create multiple folders too. In my "Pictures" folder I have subfolders for various events. So what, instead of a folder I have a "Pictures" tag with various "tags" for different events? Again it looks to me like "Tags" is just a hipster way of saying "Folders", which I already have.

Which brings us to the one thing that tags and folders do NOT have in common: Visual cues. If I "tag" a folde with a color label, now that folder is different than the rest, and easily spotted. Unless the people who designed the operating system strip away the functionality of having the color clearly visible, in which case what in the WORLD is the point of having different colored labels or tags at all?

You should never ever install a point-zero release of any version of OS X on a Mac you're using to make money with. Period. There are always problems, incompatibilities, and changes you might not like. I can't think of a 10.x.0 release of OS X that wasn't a bit dodgy. Maybe Snow Leopard, as it was mostly a tune-up. Leopard and Lion were equally rough around the edges as Mavericks. These things get worked out over time.

Well..... I've been using macs since the Apple II+, and every OS update had some funky stuff sure. But only in the last 2 years or so have I seen every update take perfectly useful features and screw them up. But even then there was usually a balancing factor or two that made things better. Mavericks is the first OS update from Apple I can remember where they screwed a bunch of stuff up but improved literally nothing. Oh, I have tabs in finder windows now. So what. I'd prefer to have things open and close as quickly as they used to, or have programs not lag and freeze constantly, or have color labels back. Mavericks stinks because for the first time stuff has been screwed up, but as far as I can see nothing has been improved. It's a step backwards, plain and simple.
 

petsounds

macrumors 65816
Jun 30, 2007
1,493
519
I can see what you're saying in an environment where multiple people are handling the same files. But for me it's not about organizing files at all, I already have a system for that and since I work in a closed environment what I don't need is yet another "tagging" system for my files. I know where the stuff I want is, and besides that I've got spotlight if I can't find something. Another layer of organization is pointless for me, I just need color labels so I can identify things quickly.

Yeah, I get that. I mean, it's surprising to me that Apple would take away label functionality after there was such an uproar during the 10.0 period and they added them back after much user protest. I think they didn't understand (or care) that some people use labels more as highlighting tools.

Besides I've never fully understood the point of tags. So now instead of remembering where I put my files I have to remember how I tagged them? How is that any better? To me it's exactly the same thing as a folder hierarchy, except that now "folders" are just called "tags" and instead of "searching a folder" you "search for a tag". How is that any better, or for that matter even any different? It's just a different word for the same thing.

"But you can apply multiple tags" people say. So what? I can create multiple folders too. In my "Pictures" folder I have subfolders for various events. So what, instead of a folder I have a "Pictures" tag with various "tags" for different events? Again it looks to me like "Tags" is just a hipster way of saying "Folders", which I already have.

Okay, I'll give you a couple examples.

1) Steve is a freelance graphic designer. He has a clients directory, and under that he has a folder for each client, and under each one of those he has individual project directories. He often has a couple freelance projects going at the same time, in addition to his personal projects. He used to color each project with "In Progress" and "Client Review" labels. He'd also color the latest version of a graphic comp Photoshop and Illustrator files with another "Latest" label.

In Mavericks, Steve has tagged project folders "In Progress" and current comps "Latest". Now these show up in a Finder window's sidebar, and Steve can immediately access what he needs to work on without having to wade through folder hierarchies every time.

2) Julie is a Creative Director at an advertising firm. While working on a project pitch for a client, she often has hundreds of files to manage per project -- photos, movies, mockups from her Art Directors, potential music for commercials, budgets from the Account teams, etc. Finding that image of a robot riding a horse she grabbed from a stock photo site quickly can be a frustrating experience, especially when the file is named something like 1193732238-a.jpg. But an AD had given her over 100 robot photos to look it and she'd dumped it in the same folder, ugh. Fortunately, when Julie downloaded the image she took the time to tag it with the tags "robot" and "horse". So Julie does Command-F, searches for those tags and boom, there it is.

Now Julie needs to find a photo of an ocean for a magazine she's working on. She does a tag search for "ocean". That didn't help much, she has thousands of ocean photos on her drive. But this one in particular had a surfer in it, and a sailboat. Maybe she tagged it? So she does a tag search for "ocean", "surfer", "sailboat", and yes, found it!

Do you start to see the benefits of tags now? It's about reducing the reliance on rigid folder structures and long, overly-descriptive filenames, so that one can search for multiple property descriptors to quickly narrow focus onto relevant files, no matter where they are. Yes, you still have to remember what tags you used, the computer will never replace one's memory, but you can quickly see the available tags.

By the way, here's a good Macworld article on tagging tips.


Which brings us to the one thing that tags and folders do NOT have in common: Visual cues. If I "tag" a folde with a color label, now that folder is different than the rest, and easily spotted.

I suggested earlier in the thread that files with only one tag should look like the old labels. Putting more than one tag on a file would change the file to the dots motif, or hopefully something better (maybe vertical color stripes). If you like that idea, perhaps send feedback to Apple about it.

Mavericks stinks because for the first time stuff has been screwed up, but as far as I can see nothing has been improved. It's a step backwards, plain and simple.

I suppose that kind of thing is subjective. I felt the way you do about Lion and ML. They added nothing important, gave us useless stuff I never asked for or wanted like social media BS plastered into my OS, and reduced functionality and added gaudy visual elements. So by comparison, Mavericks seems like a breath of fresh air to me. However, I'm still waiting until at least 10.9.1 to upgrade for Apple to get the kinks out.
 

molex

macrumors newbie
Sep 24, 2007
10
0
Okay, I'll give you a couple examples.

1) Steve is a freelance graphic designer. He has a clients directory, and under that he has a folder for each client...

Ok, I see what you're saying. I guess the fact that I have no need for that functionality translated in my brain as "No one needs this functionality" which is obviously incorrect :)

However, I'm still waiting until at least 10.9.1 to upgrade for Apple to get the kinks out.

That's what I'll be doing in the future. Up until Mavericks I've been one of the people installing the new OS the instant it's available. With Mavericks Apple was good enough to put me in my place. Moving forward instead of being excited about a new OS release I'll be wary. I'm sure that's exactly what Apple wants from their customers. I mean why would you want to have your customers excited about the release of a robust, well-planned OS that offers new features people need while preserving tried-and-true foundations that people have come to rely on when instead you can instill a sense of dread in your customers by releasing OS updates that strip away functionality while also offering little in the way of new features that matter?

I miss the old Apple.
 

petsounds

macrumors 65816
Jun 30, 2007
1,493
519
That's what I'll be doing in the future. Up until Mavericks I've been one of the people installing the new OS the instant it's available. With Mavericks Apple was good enough to put me in my place. Moving forward instead of being excited about a new OS release I'll be wary. I'm sure that's exactly what Apple wants from their customers.

Here's my theory. Forstall was fired last November. Ive and Federighi have gone on record publicly that they started work on iOS 7 around that time. So they had about six months to get it ready for WWDC. And historically when iOS software needed a push to get done, they pulled engineers from the OS X team. I think that's what happened here. Obviously Mavericks has been in development longer, but my guess is there were less engineers around to fix bugs. That doesn't necessarily explain how tagging and labels ended up this way, but I think might explain why this release is a bit more rough than normal. And why some of the apps feel kind of half done.

I miss the old Apple.

I don't know, again...subjective! I felt like during Lion and ML they were heading towards merging OS X and iOS into one operating system. Or at least OS X was in a serious existential crisis, borrowing clothes from its teenage sibling. With Mavericks, I feel that Apple regained clarity (or internal agreement) about what OS X is and what direction it should go in. From getting rid of the cat names, to dropping some of the iOS silliness, to focusing on some features (once the bugs and performance issues are ironed out) that are actually productivity and usability enhancements, instead of adding Facebook icons everywhere and doing dumb things like making full-screen only show on one monitor. Mavericks makes me excited again for the future of OS X.
 

Ferry

macrumors newbie
Aug 18, 2013
10
0
As I said before

XtraFinder

It's free and it supports labels as well as a bunch of other stuff

The problem with XtraFinder is that it has some bugs that make it not yet ready for daily, intensive usage: folders-on-top does not function properly, you select the option and folders are placed on top, but next folder you open, folders in it are shown alphabetically again. Sidebar in the second tab in dual-pane mode should not be shown in the middle but in the opposite side, just as TF does. And some other minor graphic glitches… But looks promising, very promising.

On the other hand, last version of TF, v1.5.2, does not support old labels look.

Saluditos,

Ferrán.
 

designaholic

macrumors regular
Nov 10, 2007
240
35
Bristol, UK
Apple should give users the option to still colour label folders. I don't use tags, and find I'm missing being able to highlight certain folders.

People saying here that "you should change your thinking" is not valid. I can see how tags can be useful, but it's a different animal than simply being able to highlight a folder.

Fundamental changes like these worry me slightly. Such a long standing feature should at least be still accessible to users.
 

robgendreau

macrumors 68040
Jul 13, 2008
3,468
330
I think six different colors to label folders or files was ridiculous, even when I tried it on the first color Macs. Not useful to me...BUT that doesn't mean it wasn't useful to others. Sure, tagging is way more expandable and flexible but that doesn't mean that some people's workflow relied on the coloring. And even though those stupid colors occasionally insult my eyes before I remove them, I appreciate that we should be able to have at LEAST the flexibility to color a few things in the Finder the way we want.

You used to be able to mess about a lot with the look of the Finder. It's an aging POS in my opinion, and any level of customization would be greatly appreciated. I'm sure the coloring people would appreciate a few more colors, for example. And looking at how in metadata this was implemented it shouldn't have been that hard. And if you could key color to other metadata (rating, when last modified, size, etc) it might be even more useful.

But Apple isn't too keen on allowing developers to mess with this. I love Path Finder for this reason, but we need something more comprehensive. Or at least a Finder skin application with lots of user tweaks.

Rob
 

dmb70

macrumors member
Jul 27, 2004
48
0
I to want labels back!!!!! There is no reason why they can't have it a selectable preference.
 

zen

macrumors 68000
Jun 26, 2003
1,713
472
Personally, I use Spotlight to find folders and launch apps. Command-Space, type part of the name, hit enter and boom you're there. To me it's faster than trying to hunt for stuff in the Finder, colored or not.

It's not about finding stuff, though, it's about a visual representation of workflow. For example - as has been discussed earlier, I think - you might work in some kind of production department where files need to go through several process steps or checks.

So, you could have your folder open, and at a glance see that seven files are cleared for release (green labels), five require final approval (blue labels), four are in-progress (red labels), and six are brand new and awaiting assignment (yellow).

It's nothing to do with finding the file - it's controlling workflow with a *single* glance. As someone who works in publishing, I used labels extensively. I'm lost in Mavericks.
 

petsounds

macrumors 65816
Jun 30, 2007
1,493
519
It's not about finding stuff, though, it's about a visual representation of workflow.

Hey, you know you could've read the rest of the thread, and my other comments which address this, before going on a rant directed at me. But whatever floats your boat I guess.
 

zen

macrumors 68000
Jun 26, 2003
1,713
472
Hey, you know you could've read the rest of the thread, and my other comments which address this, before going on a rant directed at me. But whatever floats your boat I guess.

Doesn't make your post I was replying to any less wrong or fanboyish.
 

longtimelurker

macrumors member
Apr 28, 2011
50
35
SW US
full line colors are preferred!

Am now using Path Finder and the FULL COLOR labels it provides for files, etc. Those little dots just weren't big enough to visually see and discern the files I had associated with colors.

This was a mistake by Apple in not at least giving an option for dots or full line labels. :mad:
 

surfertom

macrumors newbie
Jan 17, 2014
2
0
California
Why not both?

There is no reason that Apple couldn't bring back labels A-N-D tags. The tags could have a clear background break and the rest of the given file line could be colored like a label.

There is no way the tags are more convenient for me than the labels. I, like some others, used to have colored labels on all my project files to indicate to me which was in review, to be done, approved. The color was enough to know. Now those little overlapping dots are all I have.

Disappointing . . .

ST
 

designaholic

macrumors regular
Nov 10, 2007
240
35
Bristol, UK
XtraFinder (0.19) now has support for both simultaneously. Rejoice.

Cool man, tabs is essentially the only feature I like like on Mavericks so I may install this on my work iMac (running Mountain Lion) :cool:

My MBA running Mavericks sucks big time, sleep / wake and Gmail problems drive me insane.

Cheers for the link.
 
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