I think it's more than merely two-tuners. The two-tuner TiVo's I thought were just DirectTiVo. However, the signal there is already digital, so one merely needs to tune in and record. Ordinary (i.e., analog) DVRs have just one encoder, so it's more than just a tuner, you need more hardware, or, at least, better processing power, to handle two encodings in real-time.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
iBox Followup?
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I think it's more than merely two-tuners. The two-tuner TiVo's I thought were just DirectTiVo. However, the signal there is already digital, so one merely needs to tune in and record. Ordinary (i.e., analog) DVRs have just one encoder, so it's more than just a tuner, you need more hardware, or, at least, better processing power, to handle two encodings in real-time.
Apple's previous attempt...
It was was "trialed" at Walt Disney in California in about 1200 Hotel Rooms and in Florida at about 3500 Hotel rooms.
I have purchased 5 of them on eBay and know someone who had the three different types. They go on eBay for as little as $25 + shipping and I think are a true Apple collectible - they are basically a fast 68040 Machine. The coolest part is the remote. The remotes are even more rare and control the box and Sony TVs.
They were mainly used to connect to services via the television - like shopping on Main St USA (at Disney) - shopping for clothes from Neiman Marcus (thru Disney) - and ordering food (room service)... at least this is the content I have seen on several drives (they had 240MB hard drives for the content but also had network content)
It was was "trialed" at Walt Disney in California in about 1200 Hotel Rooms and in Florida at about 3500 Hotel rooms.
I have purchased 5 of them on eBay and know someone who had the three different types. They go on eBay for as little as $25 + shipping and I think are a true Apple collectible - they are basically a fast 68040 Machine. The coolest part is the remote. The remotes are even more rare and control the box and Sony TVs.
They were mainly used to connect to services via the television - like shopping on Main St USA (at Disney) - shopping for clothes from Neiman Marcus (thru Disney) - and ordering food (room service)... at least this is the content I have seen on several drives (they had 240MB hard drives for the content but also had network content)
Thanks for the input adzoox!
My take on the so-called 'iBox'
a) I think that iBox is definitley not a name that Apple would use. They could have called iTunes iMusic, or iPhoto iPictures. Both of which are ugly names, thus I think that they would come up with something more interesting, with a less 'blunt' sound to it.
b) I really don't think that it would need a very 900 G3 to do what it does. The Xbox only has a 700 PIII. That's wicked slow, yet since the machine is dedicated to playing games, it doesn't waste any power managing an OS or anything else that a computer has to do all the time.
c) To be competitive these days it should definitley have a bigger hard drive. If it's going to be recording stuff on TV it should at least try to keep up with the huge hard drives that people are putting in DVRs these days.
d) Does a DVR use a lot of memory? It doesn't run any apps besides iTunes. All it would use memory for would be some light caching as video goes in and out (remember NTSC video is 720x480, not the most amazing res.). From expierience Apple has always under-RAMed their computers, and I think that they would never put in more RAM than it needs, and I can't imagine a set-top box needing 128 MB of RAM
e) In contrast to what I said before, it wouldn't need 80 gigs of HD space if it can't get TV listings, and from what they said about it, it doesn't seem like it has a direct purpose, so it would be kind of a multi-tool hub station, DVR, home theater, slide show viewer, wireless tool gizmo.
I think that the person who wrote this about the iBox was trying to incorporate everything about the Mac OS X digital hub, along with a DVD player, as well as a DVR. It has long been known that these kinds of things are messy, when you get a PDA that goes online, records video, makes phone calls, takes pictures and feeds your dog, you get somewhat lost. Apple would really have to work to make this simple and easy to use, and have it be competitive. I think that by releasing this multi-hub thing Apple would be entering a market that has already been established, unlike their early jump with the iPod. The iPod came out before MP3 players had hit it big with the masses, and therefore it was able to be debugged, refined and retooled as Mp3 players took off, now, the DVR, DVD player, and home theater market's are already swarming with incredibly high-quality products, for low prices that work very well. Apple would have to make a complete U-Turn in their typical, 'Release, refine, sit back" strategy, in which they would have had to have been refining and testing for months before now.
From this I think that this rumor is false, or at least incredibly inaccurate.
Thats my $50,000,000, if you disagree then go buy yourself a Twinkie, then eat it while sitting in your car in front of a McDonalds, while listening to Joni Mitchell.
My take on the so-called 'iBox'
a) I think that iBox is definitley not a name that Apple would use. They could have called iTunes iMusic, or iPhoto iPictures. Both of which are ugly names, thus I think that they would come up with something more interesting, with a less 'blunt' sound to it.
b) I really don't think that it would need a very 900 G3 to do what it does. The Xbox only has a 700 PIII. That's wicked slow, yet since the machine is dedicated to playing games, it doesn't waste any power managing an OS or anything else that a computer has to do all the time.
c) To be competitive these days it should definitley have a bigger hard drive. If it's going to be recording stuff on TV it should at least try to keep up with the huge hard drives that people are putting in DVRs these days.
d) Does a DVR use a lot of memory? It doesn't run any apps besides iTunes. All it would use memory for would be some light caching as video goes in and out (remember NTSC video is 720x480, not the most amazing res.). From expierience Apple has always under-RAMed their computers, and I think that they would never put in more RAM than it needs, and I can't imagine a set-top box needing 128 MB of RAM
e) In contrast to what I said before, it wouldn't need 80 gigs of HD space if it can't get TV listings, and from what they said about it, it doesn't seem like it has a direct purpose, so it would be kind of a multi-tool hub station, DVR, home theater, slide show viewer, wireless tool gizmo.
I think that the person who wrote this about the iBox was trying to incorporate everything about the Mac OS X digital hub, along with a DVD player, as well as a DVR. It has long been known that these kinds of things are messy, when you get a PDA that goes online, records video, makes phone calls, takes pictures and feeds your dog, you get somewhat lost. Apple would really have to work to make this simple and easy to use, and have it be competitive. I think that by releasing this multi-hub thing Apple would be entering a market that has already been established, unlike their early jump with the iPod. The iPod came out before MP3 players had hit it big with the masses, and therefore it was able to be debugged, refined and retooled as Mp3 players took off, now, the DVR, DVD player, and home theater market's are already swarming with incredibly high-quality products, for low prices that work very well. Apple would have to make a complete U-Turn in their typical, 'Release, refine, sit back" strategy, in which they would have had to have been refining and testing for months before now.
From this I think that this rumor is false, or at least incredibly inaccurate.
Thats my $50,000,000, if you disagree then go buy yourself a Twinkie, then eat it while sitting in your car in front of a McDonalds, while listening to Joni Mitchell.
Just to clarify...
The tuner does not allow TiVo to record two programs at once, it's the D/A converter. No TiVo has two converters. The reason the DirectTiVo's (and only the DirectTiVo's) can record two programs at once is because the DirectTV box has its own converter and can send the converted video to TiVo for recording. The converter is, I believe, the most expensive part of the unit and would make TiVo's much too expensive if they were to make one with two converters.
The tuner does not allow TiVo to record two programs at once, it's the D/A converter. No TiVo has two converters. The reason the DirectTiVo's (and only the DirectTiVo's) can record two programs at once is because the DirectTV box has its own converter and can send the converted video to TiVo for recording. The converter is, I believe, the most expensive part of the unit and would make TiVo's much too expensive if they were to make one with two converters.
Hey look! It's the pizza box Mac we keep asking for.
Just stick in a 1Ghz G4 and a graphics card, slim HD and let us run Panther on it.
Just stick in a 1Ghz G4 and a graphics card, slim HD and let us run Panther on it.
Hmmm. Odd. I read the original rumor as including an EPG (Apple would be downright foolish not to, since it can be gotten over the net connection for free ... although Gateway's DVR overlooked this, I always thought Apple was smarter than Gateway ...), just not the "search" and "season pass" and "record what shows it thinks you might like without you telling it" features of Tivo.
Rereading, the statement in the article isn't clear at all:
Well, yes, you have to be able to process and write two data streams at once. Microsoft's old models did two-stream analog ("UltimateTV"); I believe there are two-tuner analog Tivo's out there too.
Also, I believe early-model DirectTivo's reconverted the signal from DirecTV's MPEG-2, and may still do so if you go to a "lower quality/longer play" setting on the recorder. I say this because specific units last year or so used the non-reencoding as a selling feature over other brands'.
um no
there is no freaking way that apple is even considering a device like this. It's an overpriced TiVO in a market where TiVO isn't even making money (despite the fact that it is apparently a great product). I personally guarantee that this will not happen.
there is no freaking way that apple is even considering a device like this. It's an overpriced TiVO in a market where TiVO isn't even making money (despite the fact that it is apparently a great product). I personally guarantee that this will not happen.
Apple has never supported DVD authoring on a G3. Without a dedicated MPEG 2 encoder, it would take the whole weekend to render 50 minutes to a DVD...what do you do with the iBox during that time?
Tivo subsidizes their box manufactures, and sells the boxes at a loss in hopes of gaining licensing/service fee revenue.
When was the last time that Apple cut its nice margins and sold hardware at a loss?
I'm not buying this at all. Pure fiction.
Tivo subsidizes their box manufactures, and sells the boxes at a loss in hopes of gaining licensing/service fee revenue.
When was the last time that Apple cut its nice margins and sold hardware at a loss?
I'm not buying this at all. Pure fiction.
I'd rather pay more for the box and not be at the mercy of a subscription service of any sort.
What are all those TiVo owners going to do if the company were to suddenly get wiped off the map? Expensive paperweight.
Priorities
I'd like to get one but priorities first. I have an aging 28" TV that has magnetic burn in from the speakers sitting next to it along with a ghosting barely visible vertical strip on screen.
Before adding any cool gizmos to the system I want to upgrade to a Sony widescreen 40" high def TV and that's after I get my G5 PowerBook paid off. So even if Apple came out with such a device I'd probably end up getting a second gen iBox.
I'd like to get one but priorities first. I have an aging 28" TV that has magnetic burn in from the speakers sitting next to it along with a ghosting barely visible vertical strip on screen.
Before adding any cool gizmos to the system I want to upgrade to a Sony widescreen 40" high def TV and that's after I get my G5 PowerBook paid off. So even if Apple came out with such a device I'd probably end up getting a second gen iBox.
Actually, if Apple did come out with a PVR, I'd expect the listings to be provided to .Mac subscribers.
I think 40 and 80 GB.
iBox versus PSX?
If this thing becomes a reality, I wonder how it will stack up (performance-, sales-, and price-wise) against Sony's new PSX, which, by the way, sold out in a few minutes! Read:
PSX Sells Out in Japan
Sony's all-in-one unit lasts on shelves for a few minutes.
December 17, 2003 - Sony's new PSX device has nearly sold through the first shipment in its first day of sale. Many customers stayed in long lines at stores only to leave empty-handed. Large amounts of pre-orders cleared the shelves before many shoppers had a chance to enter the front door.
Due to Sony stripping some of the PSX features for a Christmas launch, the hordes of analysts that follow Sony's every move predicted that sales would be lower than expected. They're now saying that sales will hold strong for a couple months and then drop off. Sony has been firm in its belief that at least one million units will sell in Japan in the next year.
-- Ed Lewis
If this thing becomes a reality, I wonder how it will stack up (performance-, sales-, and price-wise) against Sony's new PSX, which, by the way, sold out in a few minutes! Read:
PSX Sells Out in Japan
Sony's all-in-one unit lasts on shelves for a few minutes.
December 17, 2003 - Sony's new PSX device has nearly sold through the first shipment in its first day of sale. Many customers stayed in long lines at stores only to leave empty-handed. Large amounts of pre-orders cleared the shelves before many shoppers had a chance to enter the front door.
Due to Sony stripping some of the PSX features for a Christmas launch, the hordes of analysts that follow Sony's every move predicted that sales would be lower than expected. They're now saying that sales will hold strong for a couple months and then drop off. Sony has been firm in its belief that at least one million units will sell in Japan in the next year.
-- Ed Lewis
Attachments
Actually, that was a picture of the one from 1995.
I would love to have one of these things if they are ever released, but I would hope they would release a cheaper model without a super drive, because if it can send the files to my computer, I would just burn them there.
There are several products on the high end home theater market that allow users to put their entire DVD collection on a central hard drive and make available to several televisions throughout the house. These products also stream music and internet radio. Microsoft just announced a device that will allow you to stream content from your computer to your TV through either a standalone box or a new hyped up version of the Xbox.
I love my DVR and believe this will be the next logical step in home theater. A receiver on the tv that can store programing on a central server and be made available to another TV either through the new ultra wireless that is being developed or a wired network. I hope Apple really is working on this and if they do they have consulted the industry. DVI is going to slowly be replaced by HDMI so I would love to see Apple be ahead of the game and include this connection.
Sign me up for 3 or 4 iboxes and one G5 or maybe an Xserve to store a serious movie collection to stream away throughout the house.
I love my DVR and believe this will be the next logical step in home theater. A receiver on the tv that can store programing on a central server and be made available to another TV either through the new ultra wireless that is being developed or a wired network. I hope Apple really is working on this and if they do they have consulted the industry. DVI is going to slowly be replaced by HDMI so I would love to see Apple be ahead of the game and include this connection.
Sign me up for 3 or 4 iboxes and one G5 or maybe an Xserve to store a serious movie collection to stream away throughout the house.
There are several products on the high end home theater market that allow users to put their entire DVD collection on a central hard drive and make available to several televisions throughout the house. These products also stream music and internet radio. Microsoft just announced a device that will allow you to stream content from your computer to your TV through either a standalone box or a new hyped up version of the Xbox.
I love my DVR and believe this will be the next logical step in home theater. A receiver on the tv that can store programing on a central server and be made available to another TV either through the new ultra wireless that is being developed or a wired network. I hope Apple really is working on this and if they do they have consulted the industry. DVI is going to slowly be replaced by HDMI so I would love to see Apple be ahead of the game and include this connection.
Sign me up for 3 or 4 iboxes and one G5 or maybe an Xserve to store a serious movie collection to stream away throughout the house.
I love my DVR and believe this will be the next logical step in home theater. A receiver on the tv that can store programing on a central server and be made available to another TV either through the new ultra wireless that is being developed or a wired network. I hope Apple really is working on this and if they do they have consulted the industry. DVI is going to slowly be replaced by HDMI so I would love to see Apple be ahead of the game and include this connection.
Sign me up for 3 or 4 iboxes and one G5 or maybe an Xserve to store a serious movie collection to stream away throughout the house.
Is the Elgato Systems "eyeHOME" the rumored "iBox"?!
http://www.elgato.com/products/eyehome.html
Looks exactly like most of the proto-types I've been seeing, most of the features:
Works with iTunes, iPhoto, DivX, Mpegs, web browsing, etc.
Even integrates with their other product: eyeTV for DVR-ing TV.
No DVD-Burning though, but a Superdrive on your Mac would archive shows.
Sounds like it to me.
Destently priced too @ $250. (eyeTV, althou not required, is seperate purchase thou).
I'm thinking of getting one of these over a MODded Xbox or PS2, cause I could careless for playing games. I want a set-top convergence box!
Althou, an Apple release product would be MUCH more desirable.
http://www.elgato.com/products/eyehome.html
Looks exactly like most of the proto-types I've been seeing, most of the features:
Works with iTunes, iPhoto, DivX, Mpegs, web browsing, etc.
Even integrates with their other product: eyeTV for DVR-ing TV.
No DVD-Burning though, but a Superdrive on your Mac would archive shows.
Sounds like it to me.
Destently priced too @ $250. (eyeTV, althou not required, is seperate purchase thou).
I'm thinking of getting one of these over a MODded Xbox or PS2, cause I could careless for playing games. I want a set-top convergence box!
Althou, an Apple release product would be MUCH more desirable.
Attachments
macMaestro said he wouldn't buy this because the Tivo already records TV (with guide!), photos are no good on TV (and you would import to the Mac), who'd want a home server, burning CDs and DVDs should be done on the Mac, and the iPod already plays tunes on the stereo.
The thing is - do you currently also have a DVD player and VCR? This could change that. (And many people don't have a Tivo, iPod, & Mac - making this device more appealing)
There's a few facts that must be going through Apple's collective minds in their design here...
A) There is value in having iTunes on the stereo
B) The TV is a viewing medium, not a sit down and type medium (photos are viewing too)
C) DVDs are very popular
D) People are used to recording stuff off the TV to watch later.
E) The cable companies are using their own boxes, mainly.
F) Not everyone has a computer
G) This has to be EASY to use.
So I'm thinking several things about how an iBox might work.
1. it'll be marketed as a replacement for DVD player and VCR.
Record to DVD rewriteables (default LP recording 2hrs)
2. It'll have to have a harddisk - but movies won't stay on it except as a cache while compressing.
3. Copy CDs, & iTunes management of music
4. Copy home movies via firewire (default DVD-R SP recording of 1hr)
5. For photos - plug in your USB camera, iPhoto management of photos (or add to your DVD-RW hard copy). (if you don't have digital camera yet get your local camera shop to develop your film onto CD (Kodak CD?) and load that).
6. "Prosumer" features.
* Remote management from a computer (use rendezvous or an iBox-iChat login).
* TV guide on the remote computer, for programming recordings
* Pause Live TV
* Store video temporarily in the system (up to 15 hours?)
People can buy this with 20 blank DVD-RWs and just start using it. Your remote has 3 modes - TV, Photo, Tunes (& maybe an upmarket model has "Tivo" too). Depending on what you plug into it (DVD, CD, still camera etc etc) the system will have a pretty good guess at what you want.
If this is cheap enough (cheaper than existing DVD recorders?) I think it would be a best seller!
The thing is - do you currently also have a DVD player and VCR? This could change that. (And many people don't have a Tivo, iPod, & Mac - making this device more appealing)
There's a few facts that must be going through Apple's collective minds in their design here...
A) There is value in having iTunes on the stereo
B) The TV is a viewing medium, not a sit down and type medium (photos are viewing too)
C) DVDs are very popular
D) People are used to recording stuff off the TV to watch later.
E) The cable companies are using their own boxes, mainly.
F) Not everyone has a computer
G) This has to be EASY to use.
So I'm thinking several things about how an iBox might work.
1. it'll be marketed as a replacement for DVD player and VCR.
Record to DVD rewriteables (default LP recording 2hrs)
2. It'll have to have a harddisk - but movies won't stay on it except as a cache while compressing.
3. Copy CDs, & iTunes management of music
4. Copy home movies via firewire (default DVD-R SP recording of 1hr)
5. For photos - plug in your USB camera, iPhoto management of photos (or add to your DVD-RW hard copy). (if you don't have digital camera yet get your local camera shop to develop your film onto CD (Kodak CD?) and load that).
6. "Prosumer" features.
* Remote management from a computer (use rendezvous or an iBox-iChat login).
* TV guide on the remote computer, for programming recordings
* Pause Live TV
* Store video temporarily in the system (up to 15 hours?)
People can buy this with 20 blank DVD-RWs and just start using it. Your remote has 3 modes - TV, Photo, Tunes (& maybe an upmarket model has "Tivo" too). Depending on what you plug into it (DVD, CD, still camera etc etc) the system will have a pretty good guess at what you want.
If this is cheap enough (cheaper than existing DVD recorders?) I think it would be a best seller!
Interesting idea but a product that may take a while to develop and test and to put into production. Hopefully a future product from Apple. Either way I really would like one!
yeah - it doesnt sound very realistic. i mean.. a G3 500, 128mb ram with, er, a superdrive!?
i'd like to see that...
i'm sure they'd use at least a G4 1ghz
and at least 256mb ram.
So, if it was true... you'd record/watch tv/media.. on the tv? then, could you transfer the just recorded media to your mac in the other room via airport?
again this thing sounds pretty unrealistic.. would be kinda cool.. but... lets not get our hopes up.
i'd like to see that...
i'm sure they'd use at least a G4 1ghz
and at least 256mb ram.
So, if it was true... you'd record/watch tv/media.. on the tv? then, could you transfer the just recorded media to your mac in the other room via airport?
again this thing sounds pretty unrealistic.. would be kinda cool.. but... lets not get our hopes up.