iMac19 storage upgrade

[fmnamado]

Hello to you all and thank you for your help upfront.

So I have this iMac 2019 27" 3.1GHz:

iMac "Core i5" 3.1 27" (5K, 2019) Specs (Retina 5K, 27-Inch, 2019, MRR02LL/A, iMac19,1, A2115, 3194): EveryMac.com

Technical specifications for the iMac "Core i5" 3.1 27" (5K, 2019). Dates sold, processor type, memory info, hard drive details, price and more.

everymac.com

Apple iMac "Core i5" 3.1 27" (5K, 2019) Specs​

Identifiers: Retina 5K, 27-Inch, 2019 - MRR02LL/A - iMac19,1 - A2115 - 3194


And I love it 😃
The only difference from stock is the RAM, I added 16GB to a 24GB total.


But is is requesting some love: I would need to reinstall the operative system, it has a lot of junk, and the storage is filling up.
It has a fusion drive: 32GB SSD Blade + 1TB hard drive.

I would like to replace the blade for a SSD blade, keep the 1TB hard drive inside and the 32GB blade stored in case I need it for a firmware update.

As the process for resintalling the operative system and reinstalling and configuring everything is tedious, I would like some help from you, which would be the best solution.


What I REALLY would liek to do, was to enforce some kind of procedure that would break the fusion drive, without data loss, forcing all the data to be "flushed" to the hard drive.
This way, I could remove the blade, replace it with a 1-2TB blade, reinstall everything and if I needed something from the previous installation, I would only have to boot via the 1TB hard drive, with everything in its place.
When everything would be OK, I would wipe the 1TB internale hard drive and keep it as a low speed storage.

So what I really wanted to know is if it's possible to break the fusion drive, without data loss and forcing to move everything to the internal hard drive, so I can remove the blade and everything keeps working without the blade.

If this scenario isn't possible, I would like to ask if it's possible to clone the fusion drive (data from SSD to HDD) to an image, that I could write then after to the hard drive only, allowing me to remove the SSD blade, and keep everything working in the internal hard drive only, allowing me to replace the SSD for a new one.

I am open to other suggestions, keep in mind that for me, what I would want, was to be able to install a new operative system and in the mean time , being able to boot to the old one, while copying things over.

Thank you very much for your help!

 

[Nguyen Duc Hieu]

I would do like this in similar case:

1. Buy a 2TB nVME blade with iMac adapter and an external USB-C enclosure.
2. Assemble the nVME to the USB-Enclosre and plug in the iMac as external USB device
3. Clone the Fusion drive to the external USB SSD
4. Boot from the external USB SSD to see if the working speed makes me happy.
5. If it does, then just live with it for another few years, after search and remove all the junks.
If it doesn't (faster but not fast enough), then
6. Wipe out the Fusion Drive,
7. Split it out, reformat the HDD
8. Open the iMac to replace the SSD blade with the 2TB SSD cloned.
9. Boot the iMac again to see if the speed pleases me.
If it does, then happily live with it for another ten years.
If it doesn't, then sell it and buy a new Silicon iMac.

 

[fmnamado]

Hmmm

Thank you very much for your idea.

The only question or point of doubt about your idea is this, that I would like someone or yourself to clarify:

Is it possible to clone in a working way, the fusion drive (a group made by an SDD+HDD) to a single new drive?

Because I don't know if this will work without a problem...

Thank to whoever helps this out

 

[fmnamado]

Two other questions:
1-Do I need KAPTON tape to isolate the pins for sintech adapter or can it be any electrical isolation duct tape?

2-Can I clone the existing fusion drive (SSD+HDD group) to an image, for example with clonezilla in order to virtualize this instalation in virtualbox? This would be the ideal solution, as I could run both the new and previous instalation in the same machine, without rebooting and completely isolated, being a virtual machine.

Thank you!

 

[ignatius345]

So what I really wanted to know is if it's possible to break the fusion drive, without data loss and forcing to move everything to the internal hard drive, so I can remove the blade and everything keeps working without the blade.

This won't work. The Fusion Drive will be wiped in the proces of "defusing" it.

Clone your working Fusion Drive to an external of some kind. I'd use Carbon Copy Cloner for this, though you could also migrate everything by making a Time Machine backup to an external now, and then using Migration Assistant later on to bring it all back in to your new drive. Either way, you need to back up to an external drive. (You should be making backups regardless just to safeguard your data.)

Also, if you're looking to replace the blade SSD, I would recommend checking out this thread. It will probably have a lot of the specific answers you're going to need.

A list of successful iMac 27" (2012-2019) SSD upgrades

Here you can find and discuss all the collected knowledge regarding upgrading the HDD, blade SSD and CPU of a 27" iMac 2012-2019, as well as a list of performed upgrades. Here is a list of all 27" iMac models subjected in this thread: Late 2012 - 13.2 - MD095LL/A (2.9Ghz i5-3470S, HDD only /...

forums.macrumors.com

 

[fmnamado]

Hello,

Thank you for your help.
I already bought an external USB hard drive. It will be for other purpose, but in the meantime, I can use it to clone the existing instalation to help me migrate and roll back to get something I might need from the previous one.

Is Carbon Copy Cloner confirmed to successfully clone a Mac OS instalation?
Is Carbon Copy Cloner confirmed to successfully clone a Mac OS instalation with a Fusion Drive?

I already knew that thread, that I am currently digesting, as it has a lot of dispersed information, but thank you anyway.

What about virtualizing the previous instalation, cloned possibly but Carbon Copy Cloner, do you think it could work?

 

[gilby101]

What I REALLY would liek to do, was to enforce some kind of procedure that would break the fusion drive, without data loss, forcing all the data to be "flushed" to the hard drive.

As @ignatius345 says, you can't do that. Reason: Many people assume that the SSD (in a Fusion Drive) is a cache with all the files stored on the HDD. But it is not, files are shuffled back and forth only being present on one or other disk at a time. You will find that your fusion drive size is 1TB + 32GB. This is not very obvious with a 32GB SSD, but was much more so with older fusion drives having a 128GB SSD.

2-Can I clone the existing fusion drive (SSD+HDD group) to an image, for example with clonezilla in order to virtualize this instalation in virtualbox?

What about virtualizing the previous instalation, cloned possibly but Carbon Copy Cloner, do you think it could work?

I have never heard of "cloning" macOS to an image as being a way of creating a virtual machine (I use VMWare Fusion). If it were possible, it would (for clonezilla) need a large image (1TB). So, I am saying no to both of these suggestions.

You would be better off cloning (with CCC) to an external disk which would only need to be as large as your data size (plus a bit of free space) and booting that if ever needed.

If you really want to virtualise (and have the disk space to do it), create new macOS virtual machine and recover apps, data and settings from your Time Machine backup.

Is Carbon Copy Cloner confirmed to successfully clone a Mac OS instalation?
Is Carbon Copy Cloner confirmed to successfully clone a Mac OS instalation with a Fusion Drive?

Yes. You will find lots examples on line where this has been done.

Please, don't do anything without making sure that you have a good backup (Time Machine) which you will carefully keep untouched just in case of disaster.

 

[ignatius345]

Is Carbon Copy Cloner confirmed to successfully clone a Mac OS instalation?

You're going to be creating a new system on the new drive and then migrating your files, apps and settings in. The days of cloning your entire system are done.

 

[Fishrrman]

ignatius wrote:
"You're going to be creating a new system on the new drive and then migrating your files, apps and settings in. The days of cloning your entire system are done."

No, those days are NOT "done".

Just this morning, I used CarbonCopyCloner to do an incremental backup to my cloned copy of Mojave that I use to boot and run the 2018 Mini I'm typing on right now.

I can boot and run it from the cloned backup, and DO that, now and then.

OP:
You didn't tell us WHICH VERSION OF THE OS you're using.
That's important information.
(on the other hand, what specific processor in the Mac, isn't, really).

If you have an external drive, CCC is a GREAT way to back up the fusion drive.
It will give you a BOOTABLE copy of what's on the internal, all on a single drive.
Actually, these days, SuperDuper is even easier to use to create a bootable clone, and it remains FREE to download and use for this purpose.

If you create the clone on an SSD, it may actually boot and run BETTER THAN the internal fusion drive -- and FASTER, as well.

I'm thinking (but could be wrong about this) that with the 2017 27" iMac, you have two USBc thunderbolt ports on the back, that ALSO SUPPORT USB3.1 gen2 speeds. That's TWICE AS FAST as "regular" USB3 ("a" ports).

IF that's true, you could get a USB3.1 gen2 drive with a USBc cable, plug it in, and have a drive capable of reads in the 850-920MBps range. That's very good, and you WON'T have to open the case.

Here's an example of a drive I'm talking about:

Crucial X9 1TB Portable SSD - Up to 1050MB/s Read - PC and Mac, Lightweight and Small with 3-Month Mylio Photos+ Offer - USB 3.2 External Solid State Drive - CT1000X9SSD902

Dependable storage for your favorite devices, wherever you go — that’s what the Crucial X9 Portable SSD offers. With lots of space for all your favorite photos, videos, games and more, the Crucial X9 gives you speedy file transfers and compatibility with PCs, Macs, tablets, gaming consoles and An...

www.amazon.com

Good luck.

 

[fmnamado]

Well first of all, thank you all for your help.

I have been thinking about this in these days and in the meantime the external hard drive arrived.
This hard drive is for other purpose, but it can help me during this migration option.

As @ignatius345 says, you can't do that. Reason: Many people assume that the SSD (in a Fusion Drive) is a cache with all the files stored on the HDD. But it is not, files are shuffled back and forth only being present on one or other disk at a time. You will find that your fusion drive size is 1TB + 32GB. This is not very obvious with a 32GB SSD, but was much more so with older fusion drives having a 128GB SSD.

Thank you for your clarification.
So the fusion drive does not use SSD as a cache but it disperses information through the 2 drives, sort of a RAID 0.

I have never heard of "cloning" macOS to an image as being a way of creating a virtual machine (I use VMWare Fusion). If it were possible, it would (for clonezilla) need a large image (1TB). So, I am saying no to both of these suggestions.

You would be better off cloning (with CCC) to an external disk which would only need to be as large as your data size (plus a bit of free space) and booting that if ever needed.

If you really want to virtualise (and have the disk space to do it), create new macOS virtual machine and recover apps, data and settings from your Time Machine backup.

Yes. You will find lots examples on line where this has been done.

I think it is better to clarify my intentions.
The OS is slow, it needs a reinstalation.
This would be an opportunity to reinstall it, to a newer more updated version, and to install a bigger SSD.
I want the minimum downtime possible.

The final idea would be to have a mac OS Sonoma clean installation on a 1TB PCI-e internal SSD with the sintech adapter, and to keep the internal 1TB slow hard drive to archiving of slow files. Eventually to have a mac OS instalation for emergencies situation, but that's secondary.

In order to minimize downtime, I would like the keep, for some time, the current instalation, during migration of files, installed apps (I forget the apps I use and have to look for them online again) and the configrations/settings.
When everything was done, I would nuke the original, old install (now current).
So I don't mean to keep it.

To migrate it to a virtual box envornment would be the ideal solution, as it would create a virtualized barrier, to protect me to eventual malicious software it may have been installed over the years (I don't trust this installation).
I would prefer this over booting from an external hard drive that COULD comprimise the new, clean installation.

But I accept it might not be possible to clone directly to a VM.

Please, don't do anything without making sure that you have a good backup (Time Machine) which you will carefully keep untouched just in case of disaster.

Thank you for your reminder, I am specially paranoid about this.
Has this procedure is delicate, I have a Time Machine backup in place, plus a duplicati and I also will be copying my files manually, possibly with Chrono Sync.

You're going to be creating a new system on the new drive and then migrating your files, apps and settings in. The days of cloning your entire system are done.

Has I wrote above, the idea is not to keep this installation long term.
This is an opportunity the have a clean install.
I always prefer a clean install, has the current installation is very slow.

ignatius wrote:
OP:
You didn't tell us WHICH VERSION OF THE OS you're using.
That's important information.
(on the other hand, what specific processor in the Mac, isn't, really).

Mac OS Monterey 12.7.3 (21H1015)

If you have an external drive, CCC is a GREAT way to back up the fusion drive.
It will give you a BOOTABLE copy of what's on the internal, all on a single drive.
Actually, these days, SuperDuper is even easier to use to create a bootable clone, and it remains FREE to download and use for this purpose.

Thank you for the Super Duper option.
I will look for that.
I always prefer a free app, with historical feedback.

If you create the clone on an SSD, it may actually boot and run BETTER THAN the internal fusion drive -- and FASTER, as well.

Has I mentioned above, this isn't the final idea, so the day to day usage is not a priority.
And I don't want that my computer is tun from an external bus.

I'm thinking (but could be wrong about this) that with the 2017 27" iMac, you have two USBc thunderbolt ports on the back, that ALSO SUPPORT USB3.1 gen2 speeds. That's TWICE AS FAST as "regular" USB3 ("a" ports).

IF that's true, you could get a USB3.1 gen2 drive with a USBc cable, plug it in, and have a drive capable of reads in the 850-920MBps range. That's very good, and you WON'T have to open the case.

Here's an example of a drive I'm talking about:

Crucial X9 1TB Portable SSD - Up to 1050MB/s Read - PC and Mac, Lightweight and Small with 3-Month Mylio Photos+ Offer - USB 3.2 External Solid State Drive - CT1000X9SSD902

Dependable storage for your favorite devices, wherever you go — that’s what the Crucial X9 Portable SSD offers. With lots of space for all your favorite photos, videos, games and more, the Crucial X9 gives you speedy file transfers and compatibility with PCs, Macs, tablets, gaming consoles and An...

www.amazon.com

Good luck.

Thank you for your idea, actually it is a 2019 iMac 27" and I would say you are right, I think it is a Thunderbolt port.


Summing all this and in conclusion of what I have been thinking, I tought in this solution and would like your feedback and help if it is feasible:

1. My current install is composed of a 32GB SSD+1TB Hard drive. Strip down the data well below 1TB.
2. Clone my current install to my brand new external hard drive with Super Duper.
3. Boot from my external drive.
4. I should have no troubles until this point.
5. Wipe the internal hard drive, both the SSD and HDD.
6. Break the fusion drive -> can someone point me out how to do it?
7. Clone the external hard drive just to the internal 1TB HDD. Will it be possiblem because I trimmed down the data on step 1, or Super Duper will give and error that the destination 1TB Hard Drive is smaller than the external hard drive volume, 32GB+1TB ?
8. Boot just from the internak hard drive.
9. It it succeeds, keep the external hard drive safe just in case, and use this last clone for some time.
10. [OPTIONAL] Install a brand new mac OS in the 32GB SSD, just to understand if the slowniness was because od the internal SSD.
11. Buy a new internal SSD (maybe 1TB), sintech adapter, tools, etc.
12. Install a clean mac OS Sonoma in the new SSD.
13. Migrate thins over time.
14. Profit. Oops, not profit, be happy
15. Wipe the internal hard drive and just use it as a files drive.

What do you think?
Thank you for your patience.

 

[gilby101]

would like your feedback and help if it is feasible:

2. The clone will be 1 TB
7. This will be fine as the external SSD and internal HDD are both 1TB
8. This will be excruciatingly slow.
9. Keep the internal just in case and use the external SSD.
10. You might just fit macOS on a 32GB. Might be so cramped that any speed tests are dubious.
11. This is the tricky part, unless you know exactly what you are doing. It would be much easier to get a Thunderbolt 3 enclosure and a fast M2 SSD. That is what I would do.

This seems over complicated to me. I would:
a) keep existing Fusion Drive for now,
b) clean install to external Thunderbolt 3 SSD,
c) migrate files over from Fusion or from your backup,
d) when happy erase the internal HDD and use that for slow storage (your step 15).

 

[fmnamado]

2. The clone will be 1 TB

OK I assume you are telling in won't be a problem of hardware not matching.

7. This will be fine as the external SSD and internal HDD are both 1TB

The external is an Hard Drive way bigger than 1TB.

8. This will be excruciatingly slow.

OK, it would be only temporary

9. Keep the internal just in case and use the external SSD.

I don't want this as a long term solution.

10. You might just fit macOS on a 32GB. Might be so cramped that any speed tests are dubious.

Just to boot the OS and see if it is snappier as expected.
If it is not, the problem might be elsewhere, for example, in the hardware.

11. This is the tricky part, unless you know exactly what you are doing. It would be much easier to get a Thunderbolt 3 enclosure and a fast M2 SSD. That is what I would do.

As I told before, I don't want that to be my long term solution.
I want to join buying a new internal and quick SSD, get rid of the slow fusion drive and clean reinstall.
The Mac will flyyyyy.

This seems over complicated to me. I would:
a) keep existing Fusion Drive for now,
b) clean install to external Thunderbolt 3 SSD,
c) migrate files over from Fusion or from your backup,
d) when happy erase the internal HDD and use that for slow storage (your step 15).

Actually, this doesn't seem a bad temporary solution.
In fact it seems a good solution.
I just have to shell out some coins for an external NVMe SSD drive.

Can I install in the new external SSD, and whenever I can, just open the Mac and put the SSD and everything should magically workout without any change, right?

I read the Sabrent rocket PCIe 3 would be nice, but I don't seem to find in now.
It seems there are only PCIe 4 models.
Can I put a PCIe 4 model on my Mac?
What would be the mos guaranteed model to not have any problems, like shutdown issues, etc?

Thank you once again!

 

[gilby101]

When cloning macOS, the whole destination disk will be formatted and so long as it is bigger than the data to be transferred, all is fine.

For external booting:
I have a modest Sabrent Rocket PCIe x4 (with a blue stripe) in a modest thunderbolt enclosure for data only. As a high performance boot drive, you probably want something better, like a Sabrent Rocket Plus. And a good Thunderbolt enclosure - I have an Orico, but you could do better. (I am not experienced in a wide range of external SSDs).

Can I install in the new external SSD, and whenever I can, just open the Mac and put the SSD and everything should magically workout without any change, right?

I believe so, but have never done that.

Can I put a PCIe 4 model on my Mac?

But it would only work if you have an SSD which is known compatible with being inside your Mac. I have no experience and so no advice one that!!

Edit:
This guide https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iMac+Intel+27-Inch+Retina+5K+Display+2019+Blade+SSD+Replacement/137596 uses an OWC SSD https://australia.ifixit.com/products/owc-aura-pro-x2-ssd
Also the discussion here https://everymac.com/systems/apple/...grade-imac-hard-drive-aluminum-2012-2013.html
I hope you have the confidence and competence for a removal and replace of the complete iMac. (I don't).

 

[fmnamado]

When cloning macOS, the whole destination disk will be formatted and so long as it is bigger than the data to be transferred, all is fine.

For external booting:
I have a modest Sabrent Rocket PCIe x4 (with a blue stripe) in a modest thunderbolt enclosure for data only. As a high performance boot drive, you probably want something better, like a Sabrent Rocket Plus. And a good Thunderbolt enclosure - I have an Orico, but you could do better. (I am not experienced in a wide range of external SSDs).

Thank you for your opinion, I will check and inform myself in the thread, asking for the best solution I can have.

I believe so, but have never done that.

I will assume I won't have no complications, inseriting the external SSD in the internal bay.
I think it will be OK.

But it would only work if you have an SSD which is known compatible with being inside your Mac. I have no experience and so no advice one that!!

Edit:
This guide https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iMac+Intel+27-Inch+Retina+5K+Display+2019+Blade+SSD+Replacement/137596 uses an OWC SSD https://australia.ifixit.com/products/owc-aura-pro-x2-ssd

From the information I have that OWC (way more expensive than standard brands) has the proprietary mac connecion and I wouldn't be able to connect it externally.

Or it is possible, but using the external box proprietary from OWC.
Way more expensive, and then with no use after mounting it internaly.

Also the discussion here https://everymac.com/systems/apple/...grade-imac-hard-drive-aluminum-2012-2013.html
I hope you have the confidence and competence for a removal and replace of the complete iMac. (I don't).

Thank you, I will check this out
It seems complicated but I would say i am able to do it.
For me it is no option to keep the day to day operative system on an external hard drive.

 

[fmnamado]

Some update. I got a SSD that previously used to install another copy of Monterey with success.
Just to prove the concept.

I tried to install Sonoma from Monterey to this extenral SSD, but it gave me errors.

So I created a USB bootable media and installed from that.
Sonoma came up OK
I tried booting into Monterey and it gives boot loop with the message "your computer restared..."
Keeps rebooting

Ideas of fixing this?
Why this happened?
It is a different hard drive...

Thank you

 

[Fishrrman]

Must be me (I'm getting old), but I have a hard time just trying to understand what you're doing.

Let's get this straight:
You now have an external SSD with Sonoma on it?
Did you create an account on it yet?
If so, will it boot and run the Mac?

If you DISCONNECT the SSD, will the iMac still boot?

 

[fmnamado]

Oh, I feel your pain about getting old. I sm atarting not having patience for this kind of things.

As I previously mentioned, I would like a smooth transition.
Well this is a forced and non smooth transition.

I just wanted, follwoing your sugestion, to have a mac OS Sonoma clean install, on an external SSD, and start migrating slowly.
But to be able to boot into myold, internal HDD, Monterey installation if needed, at any time.
I wasn't seeing this kind fo trouble certainly...

So this is what I did.
While booted in my Monterrey instalation:

1. Downloaded Sonoma via App Store
2. Ran the intaller
3. It gave me a cryptic error, when instllling
4. Rertried after reboot, same result.
5. Created a USB bootable installer

Reboot to he USB installer

1. Booted into USB
2. Partitioned the 240GB SSD for a partition
3. APFS GUID
4. Installed
5. For some reason it hanged during the last part of instalation, like 1hour apple logo
6. I tunrned the mac by force, imagining I would have to reinstall Sonoma
7. Tunrned the mac on with option key
8. it found both the Monterey and the Sonoma
9. Tried Sonoma, it booted

In Sonoma

1. Created two users, Admin and non-Admin
2. Logged in my Apple ID account
3. Next next
4. Updates, ok
5. Rebooted to go back to Monterey, option key held on

Booting Monterey

1. It fills the bar with Apple logo as usual
2. It gives the mac OS Kernel Panic (black screen)
3. After some seconds it reboots and boot loops into this error

I did nothing on the internal drive and it is working properly, as I acessed it normally through finder in Sonoma.

Now I am trying to boto Sonoma and for some reason it also shuts itself down.
It doesn't turn on unless I cut off the power for some time, like more than 1 minute.
I cannot see the monitor right now because at the moment I am trying this remotely.


OMG what is going on here? ...
Why is it being so dificult on me?
Any help appreciated

EDIT: Forgot this part

If you DISCONNECT the SSD, will the iMac still boot?

If I disconnet physically the extenral SSD USB cable, it is the same
Monterey gives kernel panic error and boot loops

 

[Fishrrman]

What happens if you
1. disconnect the SSD
2. boot the iMac in "safe mode" (hold down shift key, press power button, KEEP HOLDING DOWN shift key.
Can you get to the finder without a crash?

 

[fmnamado]

Well I am sorry for not updating this because the problem solved itself.
It wasn't booting.
Monterey giving the kernel panic, and Sonoma also giving error.
I disconnected all the USB devices and retired with no success.

I was reading online about zapping the PRAM, SMS reset, reinstall Sonoma with no data loss, etc etc.
But then it booted. Sonoma, because Monterey doesn't
But everytime I turn Sonoma ON (default OS), it says the computer as restarted because an harwdare problem.
Everytime it boots, even if didn't have an hardware problem.
How to get rid of this?

My plan now is this:

1. Keep this temporary SSD externally.
2. Eventually buy a PCI NVMe when decided which one.
3. Clone it as you suggested.
4. Keep it externally for some time.
5. If it is stable, open the iMac and insert internally, with an adapter.

Thank you!