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Pressure

macrumors 603
May 30, 2006
5,077
1,408
Denmark
By this logic then every Intel HD graphics machine is AAA capable too!
They somewhat are. Triple A games aren't defined by their visuals but by their development and marketing budget and their ability to turn a profit.

I don't know why people think Triple A games are defined like something that needs a GeForce RTX 4090 to even show the loading screen 🤷🏼‍♂️
 
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salamanderjuice

macrumors 6502a
Feb 28, 2020
513
554
They somewhat are. Triple A games aren't defined by their visuals but by their development and marketing budget and their ability to turn a profit.

I don't know why people think Triple A games are defined like something that needs a GeForce RTX 4090 to even show the loading screen 🤷🏼‍♂️
:rolleyes:

It's pretty clear this whole thread from the beginning is about graphically demanding games. Otherwise what's the point?

Nintendo is not going to be bringing their non-graphically demanding AAA games to Mac, and the ones on PC/PS5/Xbox tend to be graphically demanding.

You don't need a 4090, but you do need something better than a 1050 for recent AAA titles released on PC.
 

bushman4

macrumors 601
Mar 22, 2011
4,043
3,553
Apple going after gaming to grow its business. Gaming is a very lucrative business as Microsoft has proven
 

jeanlain

macrumors 68020
Mar 14, 2009
2,440
936
I mean, what exactly are you even arguing at this point? What are your believes?
My belief is spelled out in my recent post. Millions of Macs capable of running recent AAA games won't automatically convince developers that they should port their games to macOS. For several reasons. One is that the vast majority of Mac users aren't gamers, another is the fact that most game developers don't take the Mac seriously isn't just a question of GPU power.

Developers will make games for Flash if the platform is big enough.

Not convinced. For one, where are the hundreds of famous console/PC games on iPhones and iPads? Surely, iOS is big enough of a platform, and many popular console/PC games could run decently on recent iDevices.
Is it just because of the on-screen controls? I doubt it. I argue that these type of game developers simply aren't interested in smartphones. They've been developing games for consoles or Windows for years. That's what they do. They don't care about smartphones, like they don't care about Macs.
 
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senttoschool

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Nov 2, 2017
2,571
5,325
It's been 3 years since I created this thread. Today, the original ideas and foresight have been confirmed by Apple in an interview. When I first wrote down the post, I thought Apple's strategy was blindingly obvious. Yet, most posters here were more than skeptical.

My original ideas were quite simple. They boiled down to:
  • Apple wants AAA games but had no way to doing so before
  • Every Apple Silicon Mac is capable of AAA gaming from low to high settings. This was not the case during the Intel era.
  • Eventually, it'd make too much financial sense for developers to make AAA games for the Apple ecosystem due to the volume of total Apple Silicon devices sold (iPads, Vision Pro, iPhone Pro, Macs, etc).

Related article:

I gave my thoughts here.
 

senttoschool

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Nov 2, 2017
2,571
5,325
:rolleyes:

It's pretty clear this whole thread from the beginning is about graphically demanding games. Otherwise what's the point?

Nintendo is not going to be bringing their non-graphically demanding AAA games to Mac, and the ones on PC/PS5/Xbox tend to be graphically demanding.

You don't need a 4090, but you do need something better than a 1050 for recent AAA titles released on PC.
None of your arguments are original. They've been rehashed over and over again in the last 60 pages. At first, people said the same thing to try to prove that Apple doesn't care/want AAA games. Now the goal post has been moved that Apple does want AAA games but it's not going to work.

There are two main beliefs of skeptics:
  1. Apple doesn't care/want AAA games (this has clearly been proven wrong)
  2. Even if Apple has a huge market share of AAA-capable devices, developers won't care. (This is what posters like @jeanlain are trying to argue.)
I'm glad we're not talking about point #1 anymore after 60 pages. As for #2, I believe skeptics will be proven wrong soon. I think developers are seeing the potential in one code base for 3-4 massively popular platforms with mostly wealthy users.
 

senttoschool

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Nov 2, 2017
2,571
5,325
Honestly Apple screwed up RE4, it should have been an Apple Arcade game.
No, I think the strategy is incredibly smart for Apple. The game itself doesn't matter much.

The reason why it's smart is even if AAA developers make games for macOS, they might release them on Steam or their own launcher - bypassing the macOS App Store. That means Apple doesn't get a cut.

However, what if you make it so that if you buy the game once on iOS, you get it for free on macOS? Or vice versa? Then you must go through the App Store. That's the genius.

On macOS, there was no way of forcing developers to use the App Store. Now there is a clear incentive - you can sell the same game easily on iOS, iPadOS, and VisionOS. Apple users would prefer to buy your game from the App Store because they can play it on any device they own. In fact, Apple users would demand it.

I think it's awesome to buy a game and play it on mobile, my iPad, and Mac. I have all 3. That's really cool.
 

JouniS

macrumors 6502a
Nov 22, 2020
613
377
On macOS, there was no way of forcing developers to use the App Store. Now there is a clear incentive - you can sell the same game easily on iOS, iPadOS, and VisionOS. Apple users would prefer to buy your game from the App Store because they can play it on any device they own. In fact, Apple users would demand it.
On the other hand, Mac users who are also gamers prefer platform-independent stores such as Steam for exactly the same reason. If you are an AAA gamer and a Mac user, you probably have both a Windows PC and a Mac. Why buy an inferior product from the App Store, when you can buy the same game from an established store and play it on all devices?

I guess this is one of the reasons why Mac ports of AAA games are so rare. The people who would play the game on a Mac have often bought it already. The developer spends money on the port, but the number of new sales is smaller than the number of people playing the port.
 
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diamond.g

macrumors G4
Mar 20, 2007
11,152
2,464
OBX
No, I think the strategy is incredibly smart for Apple. The game itself doesn't matter much.

The reason why it's smart is even if AAA developers make games for macOS, they might release them on Steam or their own launcher - bypassing the macOS App Store. That means Apple doesn't get a cut.

However, what if you make it so that if you buy the game once on iOS, you get it for free on macOS? Or vice versa? Then you must go through the App Store. That's the genius.

On macOS, there was no way of forcing developers to use the App Store. Now there is a clear incentive - you can sell the same game easily on iOS, iPadOS, and VisionOS. Apple users would prefer to buy your game from the App Store because they can play it on any device they own. In fact, Apple users would demand it.

I think it's awesome to buy a game and play it on mobile, my iPad, and Mac. I have all 3. That's really cool.
Nah, I like to believe that taking the MS route on this is the better play. You need an Apple device to use Arcade anyways. It doesn't prevent them from selling the game in other locations either (or at least GamePass doesn't, not sure if Apple has stupider rules for Arcade). You get more recurring revenue and developers get a more steady cut of the pie (otherwise what is the point of putting games on GamePass).

Lies of P is an example game that is on GamePass that still sold well. No reason Apple couldn't have done the same thing.
 
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Pressure

macrumors 603
May 30, 2006
5,077
1,408
Denmark
Yeah. 50% of all computers capable of playing AAA games are not Macs.
That wasn't even his argument even though his thread title is misleading.

He said 50% of gaming computers sold in the given year could be Macs capable of playing AAA games.

No one here expects macOS to suddenly get 50% penetration in the personal computer market 😅
 
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diamond.g

macrumors G4
Mar 20, 2007
11,152
2,464
OBX
That wasn't even his argument even though his thread title is misleading.

He said 50% of gaming computers sold in the given year could be Macs capable of playing AAA games.

No one here expects macOS to suddenly get 50% penetration in the personal computer market 😅
Nah it says 50% of computers capable is playing AAA games will be Macs. There isn't a distinction on if it is a gaming PC or not.

Which means the other person is technically correct in pointing out very few AAA games flat out won't run on most PC hardware sold. The experience may be crap but that isn't what was talked about (because a good experience for a AAA game is subjective, based on the game).
 

senttoschool

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Nov 2, 2017
2,571
5,325
I don't know, but hundreds of millions of iPhones and iPads are capable of running most console games released in the past years, yet most of these games aren't ported to iOS.
Yet, many of them were ported. Up until now, the most popular mobile games were designed from the ground up for mobile. Genshin Impact is every bit of a AAA game, for example. Mobile has cut throat competition. You can't just lazily port a AAA game over and expect it to sell.

That said, I think we will have two types of games on Apple's ecosystem:
  • Traditional mobile-optimized games
  • AAA ports that are not super optimized for mobile, but developers can release the game on 3 very popular platforms for low effort. 4 if you expect Vision Pro to sell well. 5 if Apple ever puts M series into an Apple TV.
I think the AAA porting market just opened up because iPad Pros and Airs received drastic upgrades in GPU power since M1 and the iPhone seems to have crossed a GPU threshold as well (RE4 only works on A17 Pro and beyond). Last but not least, a AAA port to the iPhone and iPad automatically makes it available to 25 - 35 million Macs sold each year.

I hope Apple will release an official game controller. Though most Bluetooth controllers work fine on Apple devices, having an official game controller sends a strong signal to both the user base and developers that Apple cares about non-mobile-optimized games.

 
Last edited:

Chancha

macrumors 68020
Mar 19, 2014
2,113
1,905
Nah, I like to believe that taking the MS route on this is the better play. You need an Apple device to use Arcade anyways. It doesn't prevent them from selling the game in other locations either (or at least GamePass doesn't, not sure if Apple has stupider rules for Arcade). You get more recurring revenue and developers get a more steady cut of the pie (otherwise what is the point of putting games on GamePass).

Lies of P is an example game that is on GamePass that still sold well. No reason Apple couldn't have done the same thing.
Apple Arcade does have instances of being mis-managed like this scenario:
- A game gets exclusively released through Arcade
- Arcade is not available in all regions, and in areas that it does the list of games are different
- said game is off-shelf on regular App Store, even for regions that don't have access to the game through Arcade (or the lack of)
- a player in such region therefore simply cannot download the game, unless going through hoops of AppStore region switching

So it is easy to see how some games are effectively getting less exposure than it could have, had it not signed exclusive deal with Arcade. Financially the Arcade either needs to have a lot stronger user base, or that Apple has to subsidise heavily for it to work.
 

Pressure

macrumors 603
May 30, 2006
5,077
1,408
Denmark
2023 December Steam Survey puts Apple Silicon at 70.14% (+0.85%) market share on macOS.

SteamSurveyDecember2023.png


SoC
Market share
Change
M1
27.98 %​
-1.15 %
M2
14.63 %​
+0.29 %
M1 Pro
12.27 %​
+0.23 %
M1 Max
5.08 %​
+0.22 %
M2 Pro
4.74 %​
-0.11 %
M2 Max
2.33 %​
+0.10 %
M3 Pro
1.41 %​
+0.59 %
M3 Max
0.92 %​
+0.41 %
M3
0.43 %​
+0.21 %
M1 Ultra
0.24 %​
+0.05 %
M2 Ultra
0.11 %​
+0.01 %
Intel
29.86 %​
-0.85 %
 
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