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Intel and AMD Ask for Government Incentives While Apple Supplier TSMC Expands to Meet Unprecedented Demand
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BTW, I don't understand why Macrumors makes it sound as if this is about Intel and AMD (except of course to get in another dig against Intel and gloat about Apple's partner TSMC). In fact the letter has been signed by just about all major US semiconductor companies, including Nvidia, Broadcom, Globalfoundries, IBM, Marvell, Micron, TI, WD and others:
www.semiconductors.org
Semiconductor Industry Leaders Urge President Biden to Prioritize Funding for Semiconductor Manufacturing, Research
WASHINGTON—Feb. 11, 2021—The Semiconductor Industry Association (SIA) Board of Directors, comprised of CEOs and senior executives at leading U.S. chip
While I fully agree with the idea of open immigration, it's also delusional to suggest it's like that right now.
Nobody in mainstream politics is pushing for that, not even the Democrat party, which has positioned itself as the "pro-immigrant" one. Before Trump was calling illegal immigration a crisis for popularity points, so was Obama more quietly, and neither made it easier to legally immigrate. And the most radical Democrats who care the least about going with the party, like Bernie Sanders, are the most against immigration due to its tendency to increase the supply of labor. If anyone believes in it, they're probably Republicans or moderate Dems who can't openly say it, too unpopular.
Oh how lovely! Here we have corporations, with their hands out, ready to empty the pockets of the public taxpayer! What a wonderful setup!
So, let me get this clear. A corporation - for example Intel - has a dividend program, wherein they disburse earnings to their shareholders. Then they turn around and ask the taxpayer to give them free money. Hey, that means they have more money from the taxpayer to give to their shareholders! Fantastic!
Where can I sign up for such a deal, where I get free money from the government, that I can then hand over to my wife, and then plead poverty and ask for more free money?
Why is nobody asking why Intel and any other leeches is so uncompetitive that they can’t outwork and outsmart their rivals, and instead, they need to further suck money out of an ordinary working Joe’s pockets, because they can’t generate that money from their own work and instead need to steal it from our pockets? Sounds like thieves and gangsters and the corrupt, and not honest workers.
Gee, I thought that the high salaries and bonuses and stock incentives so lavishly showered on the executives at these companies were supposed to be the incentive to outcompete their rivals? It didn’t work? So, are all those rewards now going to be clawed back, since they’re such complete failures? Meanwhile, did you know that the compensation of American executives runs insane multiples over any compensation that the executives from Korea, or Taiwan, or Japan can only dream of in their wildest fantasies... or anywhere else really? And somehow, those foreign executives with normal levels of compensation, a fraction of the U.S. execs compensation, beat the living daylights out of the highly - insanely highly - compensated incompetents on this side of the pond?
An ordinary worker loses their job through no fault of their own, (perhaps their job being outsourced by the highly paid executive, LOL!), and has to go on unemployement, and then the unemployment runs out and they’re welcome to be homeless and condemned by our “the market decides” talking heads execs toadies. Meanwhile, the exec who is lavishly paid, drives the business into the ground resulting in massive layoffs (including our worker) doesn’t end up homeless, but rewarded by a plum job or free money from the government - because these executives can only fail upwards.... “the market decides!”.
The utter shamelessness of this is breathtaking.
There is literally zero excuse for these failures. Here we have an industry that was *invented* in this country. That effectively had a monopoly of the market for decades. Foreign competition - what possible excuse is there for foreign companies which were at the time of the invention of this industry in the U.S., in effect located in developing third world countries (South Korea, Taiwan) and yet managing to come from *nothing* and eat the lunch of these heirs to the legacy of invention here in the richest country in the world?
Were our universities not at a high enough level to supply world class engineers? But we hear how we got the best universities! Not enough of an environment of invention and density of talent? But Silicon Valley and MIT and other areas are top of the world! Not enough capital for enterpreneurs? But we’ve got the highest amount of capital in the world and the biggest stock market for IPOs! Is our internal market not large enough to support the very industry we invented? But we have the biggest and richest internal market in the world and leading consumers of all things computer related! Is it perhaps that we don’t reward our executives enough? But we have the highest executive compensation anywhere by leagues and leagues and absurd multiples compared to anywhere in the world!
No, friends, there are no excuses. Not one. To then fail vs any company in the world, from the position of such dominance and such conditions, is a bottomless shame from which there is no escape.
So what do these utter and complete failures of monumental proportion do? They turn around, shamelessly and ask for free money from the government, because they can’t earn it themselves. If you can’t make money, hey, you can always rely on free handouts for your income. This is what it’s come to.
Unquestionably, given the utter corruption of our welfare capitalism, that gives welfare to the already rich, while starving and questioning the broke single mother for every penny, I have no doubt that they‘ll get their money. Incompetence of cronies must be rewarded.
Here of course is the kicker. All it will do, is delay the inevitable. You can go ahead and continue to bankrupt the public treasury to the point the country goes belly up on credit, but it won’t make the incompetent suddenly competent, and they’ll fail anyway. You’ll end up with failed companies and an empty treasury. But at least the incompetent execs will live richly and can lecture the fired workers on work ethic and how the “market decides”.
Meanwhile, to distract us from these stark realities, let’s attack everyone around regardless as to the relevance: satan worshipping baby eating Democrats, immigrants in basement pizza parlors running child abuse rings, brown people wherever they are - or are not, illegals in the field picking tomatoes, gays, bisexuals, and don’t forget trans, masks, Hollywood, earthquakes, non-gender bathrooms, hurricanes, and again, “people who don’t look like us”. Surely the cure is closed borders, more guns and thicker bibles and that’s how we get the miracle of better semiconductor chips from domestic companies.
Zero shame. Zero logic. Zero justice. Zero historic memory.
So, let me get this clear. A corporation - for example Intel - has a dividend program, wherein they disburse earnings to their shareholders. Then they turn around and ask the taxpayer to give them free money. Hey, that means they have more money from the taxpayer to give to their shareholders! Fantastic!
Where can I sign up for such a deal, where I get free money from the government, that I can then hand over to my wife, and then plead poverty and ask for more free money?
Why is nobody asking why Intel and any other leeches is so uncompetitive that they can’t outwork and outsmart their rivals, and instead, they need to further suck money out of an ordinary working Joe’s pockets, because they can’t generate that money from their own work and instead need to steal it from our pockets? Sounds like thieves and gangsters and the corrupt, and not honest workers.
Gee, I thought that the high salaries and bonuses and stock incentives so lavishly showered on the executives at these companies were supposed to be the incentive to outcompete their rivals? It didn’t work? So, are all those rewards now going to be clawed back, since they’re such complete failures? Meanwhile, did you know that the compensation of American executives runs insane multiples over any compensation that the executives from Korea, or Taiwan, or Japan can only dream of in their wildest fantasies... or anywhere else really? And somehow, those foreign executives with normal levels of compensation, a fraction of the U.S. execs compensation, beat the living daylights out of the highly - insanely highly - compensated incompetents on this side of the pond?
An ordinary worker loses their job through no fault of their own, (perhaps their job being outsourced by the highly paid executive, LOL!), and has to go on unemployement, and then the unemployment runs out and they’re welcome to be homeless and condemned by our “the market decides” talking heads execs toadies. Meanwhile, the exec who is lavishly paid, drives the business into the ground resulting in massive layoffs (including our worker) doesn’t end up homeless, but rewarded by a plum job or free money from the government - because these executives can only fail upwards.... “the market decides!”.
The utter shamelessness of this is breathtaking.
There is literally zero excuse for these failures. Here we have an industry that was *invented* in this country. That effectively had a monopoly of the market for decades. Foreign competition - what possible excuse is there for foreign companies which were at the time of the invention of this industry in the U.S., in effect located in developing third world countries (South Korea, Taiwan) and yet managing to come from *nothing* and eat the lunch of these heirs to the legacy of invention here in the richest country in the world?
Were our universities not at a high enough level to supply world class engineers? But we hear how we got the best universities! Not enough of an environment of invention and density of talent? But Silicon Valley and MIT and other areas are top of the world! Not enough capital for enterpreneurs? But we’ve got the highest amount of capital in the world and the biggest stock market for IPOs! Is our internal market not large enough to support the very industry we invented? But we have the biggest and richest internal market in the world and leading consumers of all things computer related! Is it perhaps that we don’t reward our executives enough? But we have the highest executive compensation anywhere by leagues and leagues and absurd multiples compared to anywhere in the world!
No, friends, there are no excuses. Not one. To then fail vs any company in the world, from the position of such dominance and such conditions, is a bottomless shame from which there is no escape.
So what do these utter and complete failures of monumental proportion do? They turn around, shamelessly and ask for free money from the government, because they can’t earn it themselves. If you can’t make money, hey, you can always rely on free handouts for your income. This is what it’s come to.
Unquestionably, given the utter corruption of our welfare capitalism, that gives welfare to the already rich, while starving and questioning the broke single mother for every penny, I have no doubt that they‘ll get their money. Incompetence of cronies must be rewarded.
Here of course is the kicker. All it will do, is delay the inevitable. You can go ahead and continue to bankrupt the public treasury to the point the country goes belly up on credit, but it won’t make the incompetent suddenly competent, and they’ll fail anyway. You’ll end up with failed companies and an empty treasury. But at least the incompetent execs will live richly and can lecture the fired workers on work ethic and how the “market decides”.
Meanwhile, to distract us from these stark realities, let’s attack everyone around regardless as to the relevance: satan worshipping baby eating Democrats, immigrants in basement pizza parlors running child abuse rings, brown people wherever they are - or are not, illegals in the field picking tomatoes, gays, bisexuals, and don’t forget trans, masks, Hollywood, earthquakes, non-gender bathrooms, hurricanes, and again, “people who don’t look like us”. Surely the cure is closed borders, more guns and thicker bibles and that’s how we get the miracle of better semiconductor chips from domestic companies.
Zero shame. Zero logic. Zero justice. Zero historic memory.
So a bunch of companies that make hundreds of billions of dollars a year are asking for incentives… meanwhile balking at the fact that they want to hike up the minimum wage?
wow… the world we live in…
wow… the world we live in…
Yes, the usual: 'Socialism' (read:tax dollars ) for big business....BUT: 'deficit concerns' for Pandemic Relief or Heath Care for the 'masses'.....same-ol , same-ol....with the 'businesses' showing no shame at all....waiting for Bezos, Amazon and Google to ask for their hand outs....to help the economy of course!![]()
A group of U.S. chip companies, including Intel, Qualcomm, Micron, and AMD, have today sent a letter to President Joe Biden to request "funding for incentives," while Apple supplier TSMC is undertaking a considerable expansion as chip demand outstrips supply (via Reuters).
![tsmc_semiconductor_chip_inspection_678x452.jpg]()
The letter to the President asked for "substantial funding for incentives for semiconductor manufacturing" to be included in his economic recovery and infrastructure plans. The letter from the U.S. firms noted that the U.S. share of semiconductor manufacturing has dropped from 37 percent in 1990 to 12 percent today.
Intel, in particular, has suffered from a myriad of problems. With major client Apple dropping Intel for its own custom silicon, and Microsoft expected to follow suit in the near future, Intel has struggled to deliver technological innovations. This is after the company has repeatedly reported delays with its latest processors, while its main competitor, AMD, has proceeded to capture valuable market share. After a major investor pushed Intel to shake up its entire business model, the company is hoping that new CEO Pat Gelsinger will help it to find its way.
While subsidies for chip manufacturing and semiconductor research have been authorized by Congress, the quantity of funding has yet to be decided. The association of companies hopes to receive significant funding in the form of grants or tax credits to claw back market share.
The formal request comes amid a global shortage of chips, which have hampered the automotive industry and popular games consoles in particular. The majority of the supply of the constrained chips comes from Taiwan and Korea, which have come to dominate the industry in recent years.
EETimes is today reporting that unlike the U.S. firms, TSMC, Apple's main chip supplier, is raising $9 billion from bonds to expand production. The company has approved the establishment of a $186 million subsidiary in Japan to expand research on materials for three-dimensional chips, following unconfirmed reports that TSMC plans to open its first overseas chip-packaging facility in Japan. TSMC also plans to combat U.S. chip makers on home territory this year by opening a new manufacturing facility in the U.S. state of Arizona.
TSMC is currently trying to meet unprecedented demand that exceeds its production capacity as global demand for secure supplies of chips skyrockets, boosting component prices by as much as 15 percent in the past two financial quarters. The chip shortage has not severely affected Apple since TSMC gives it priority over other clients such as Microsoft, Sony, Volkswagen, and Toyota because it holds much larger orders.
Article Link: Intel and AMD Ask for Government Incentives While Apple Supplier TSMC Expands to Meet Unprecedented Demand
I have no care for Intel. They already get US gov funding anyway. I'll be happy if the chips are designed and made outside of the US by other companies. Intel have stifled development and colluded over decades to keep most of the market to themselves. Hope they go belly up.
lol I am not going to argue facts. You're completely wrong and have no understanding of historical facts. I still love you though. But you're still wrong. ❤️
The minimum wage was at it's highest when compared to the poverty level in Feb 1968. The Feb 1968 minimum wage was $1.60. In 1968 dollars that $15 is $1.98.
A man must always live by his work, and his wages must at least be sufficient to maintain him. They must even upon most occasions be somewhat more; otherwise it would be impossible for him to bring up a family, and the race of such workmen could not last beyond the first generation. —Adam Smith, March 9, 1776, An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations
No man can be a good citizen unless he has a wage more than sufficient to cover the bare cost of living, and hours of labor short enough so that after his day’s work is done he will have time and energy to bear his share in the management of the community, to help in carrying the general load. We keep countless men from being good citizens by the conditions of life with which we surround them. We need comprehensive workmen’s compensation acts, both state and national laws to regulate child labor and work for women, and, especially, we need in our common schools not merely education in book learning, but also practical training for daily life and work. - President Theodore Roosevelt, “The New Nationalism" speech 1910
We stand for a living wage. Wages are subnormal if they fail to provide a living for those who devote their time and energy to industrial occupations. The monetary equivalent of a living wage varies according to local conditions, but must include enough to secure the elements of a normal standard of living--a standard high enough to make morality possible, to provide for education and recreation, to care for immature members of the family, to maintain the family during periods of sickness, and to permit of reasonable saving for old age. —President Theodore Roosevelt, August 1912
No business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. By living wages, I mean more than a bare subsistence level — I mean the wages of a decent living. —Franklin D. Roosevelt, June 24, 1938, Radio Address of the President
Never heard of migrant workers, have you? The under the table payment of illegals is more widespread then many people want to admit.
And the drug companies found guilty in the opioid crisis are trying to write their penalties off on their taxes. I'm sure an 8-year old would love to have a different child experience their punishment rather than have their own bottom being 'warmed'.
Everyone is coming with their hands out. Where's MY cut...
Everyone is coming with their hands out. Where's MY cut...
Hey man, me too I didn’t know why wafers were round. Being this about chips shortage the question did make sense.What is the image? I'm under the impression it's a bunch of manufacturered chips, but I'm confused why it seems to be on a copper circle... the chips themselves are all rectangular, are they not? So why are they made as a circle - aren't all the rounded edges a waste of space? Something I think is probably quite wrong...
===
Amazing - ask a question, get heavily downvoted and mostly snarky responses. I'm a computer engineer. I'd wager that 99.99% of people didn't know the answer to my question, and actually, probably the best response I got was this, which, while it mentions the wafer, doesn't actually say why it's round:
Wikipedia has an article on Wafers here:
Wafer (electronics) - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Wafers are the material that chips are made from. Start with a wafer, and etch the actual design of the chip (using masks) into them. They're round because apparently that's the best way people know how to make them, using this process from 1915: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czochralski_method
Over time, wafers have gotten increasingly large, so that more chips can be cut per wafer and there's less wasted edge material.
I guess that answers my questions? But I want to make sure you all know that you're all elitist and suck. @arn, what's with this community that so despises people for trying to learn stuff?
I don’t know why you got downvoted heavily either.
Thanks for updating and linking right away with the known methods and a brief summary, makes for an easy read of the thread and continuing on later on.
I take it you have never read the horrid conditions that 19th century US had or how it was possible for the military to gun down women and children - look up Ludlow, Colorado 1914 some time.
Look at what’s happening from 2016 till 2020 and I believe you can get your answer, especially how Americans respond to pandemic.
Thousands of acres of vegetables where left to rot because of the anti-immigrant jag of some governors in the past 4 years. As a kid in high school, I worked in the cheery orchards where I grew up, and encountered many migrant families that traveled like gypsy's from area to area. What impressed me was their work ethic. They were usually there before we got there, and often worked long after we left. There were also many orchards that were either too old, or too steep to use mechanical equipment, and they were the only way to harvest those areas. Many of the 'American' kids that I worked with were some of the laziest brats I've ever worked with.
Harvesting cherries was rough work, and once the chemical releaser was sprayed on the trees, those cherries had to be harvested of they would be lost to the ground. There were quite a few 'kids' who would work for a few days, and never show up again. Quitting because 'it's too hard'. BOO HOO!!! It was in the 70's, and finding work during that summer was extremely hard. Many kids just hung out on the beaches all day as most other jobs were filled, or unavailable. I believe it was another near depression, and tons of people were driven into bone crushing poverty. And yet, so many thought having a hard job was worse than being unemployed. The migrants lived off of the laziness. Americans need a better work ethic. But working for money is always harder than asking for it apparently. I worked a summer with an oil exploration crew too a few years latter. Holy Crap, THAT was a hard job too. Hauling around hundreds of pounds of cables all day. Oh, to be young again...
'Socialism'? I think you have no clue what it looks like, and how much the very rich in this country rely on it, and on you not knowing what it really means.
Respond to the pandemic? It was a nationwide surrender to the virus. All over a piece of fabric covering someones face.
Blame 2016 I guess.
No matter how bad intel’s latest campaign is, Intel’s (AMD, Apple etc by proxy) chip technology is a US strategic asset. Not providing adequate government incentives equals to not protecting strategic assets. Joe Biden should know this very well.
Wafers were always round-ish. It's how the silicon grows. And companies used to put as many chips as they could on the wafers and not waste the technology that literally printed them, but now if you look at a wafer, there are fractions of chips around the edges. I looked on ebay, and found some early wafers that people were selling, and you could see the chips going up to a margin around the edge, wasting silicone, but not wasting the chip, and now, it's like vinyl flooring in a mobile home, it goes from edge to edge. They expect wasted fractions of chips. The process to print them is cheaper than the silicon substrate. How things change...
You’re making a mistake. There’s not one ”conservative” movement in the US anymore than there’s one “liberal“ movement. You’re talking about two different groups of people who vote for vaguely the same political party.
I will officially state that you are wrong.
Remember, America was founded as an open-borders country. Love it or leave it!
Plenty of us Democrats are pushing for open borders.
Remember, Hillary Clinton said her dream was for a hemispheric common market with open borders and free trade.
We shouldn't treat our workers as something that deserves protection against immigrants.
Labor should be open to all people.
You're adorable. But you are still wrong. Adorably wrong. If what you say is true, then why does America have borders? Mexico and Canada shared borders with the USA. Bor-der-z. Say it with me. you-->?
Hillary Clinton has said a lot of things in her long political career. Like how she was 100% against gay marriage until it became popular, now she's all for it. If her words on immigration were even her intentions, one thing's clear, they're not the status quo.
About labor and borders, you don't have to convince me.
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