OS X Interesting Article: Why No OS X Overwatch

[Tucom]

http://www.pcgamesn.com/overwatch/h...erwatch-and-how-there-could-be-in-the-future?


Via the Mac Gaming Reddit - https://www.reddit.com/r/macgaming/

How would one exactly go about voicing their wanted support for this game on the Mac? Surely Metal could run it well, no?

 

[Ferazel]

How would one exactly go about voicing their wanted support for this game on the Mac? Surely Metal could run it well, no?

Thanks for the article. Basically, they're confirming a lot of what we guessed. Blizzard can't find Mac graphics programmers. Apple's 3D APIs are OK, but still behind Windows. Apple is making computers with sub-par graphics cards in 85% of their computers. Apple doesn't care about native OS X development.

You can tell Apple to support native 3D application development by using a http://www.apple.com/feedback/ form for your computer.

 

[antonis]

Yup, spot on to the reasons mentioned in these forums over and over. If Apple doesn't care, how can anyone expects the other companies to do so ?

 

[Janichsan]

Surely Metal could run it well, no?

LOL. No.

 

[koyoot]

By the looks of things to get 60 FPS in Overwatch on medium settings in 1080p you need R9 280X/R9 380 GPUs.

So it has pretty steep requirements overall for decent experience, even on PC side.

Apple has not updated their computer lineup for very long time, partly because they have very high thermal requirements(in a sense that the lower power the better), and because on market there was nothing better suitable for their own offerings. We need to wait and see what Apple will bring to the table.

Would I count on bringing OVWTCH to Mac? Unfortunately, no.

 

[Adam552]

“It was a result of not having all the technological support we needed to make the game viable on Mac systems.” says Kaplan, referring to Apple’s policies with OSX. “We have a real love and dedication for Mac players, they’ve been extremely loyal to us and we love giving them Blizzard games.

“But when dealing with the PC, the Xbox One and the PS4 - all of which are extremely welcoming to the technological needs to run a next-generation shooter - in a lot of ways we felt left behind, that we weren’t given the support we needed to make a great product on the Mac.”

I think Apple needs to do more to support these game developers, it's an important industry for desktop computers at least. I'm guessing Apple doesn't see the value in it and therefore developers are passing on Mac versions now.

The hardware that comes with most new Macs is easily enough to run games (such as Overwatch), as most of us do it in Bootcamp, it's just the software support on OSX which has been so bad. If I could run these games in OSX for similar performance I'd be doing it all the time.

 

[MacAlien]

Thanks for the article. Basically, they're confirming a lot of what we guessed. Blizzard can't find Mac graphics programmers. Apple's 3D APIs are OK, but still behind Windows. Apple is making computers with sub-par graphics cards in 85% of their computers. Apple doesn't care about native OS X development.

You can tell Apple to support native 3D application development by using a http://www.apple.com/feedback/ form for your computer.

Blizzard could hire mac developers, but their requirements are quite steep. Even then, as said, OS X and Metal are super lacking when it comes to supporting it's hardware.

 

[Aspyr-Blair]

I can say with a LOT of confidence that finding Sr. Mac engineers is really really hard.

That all said, you guys are pretty dead on. We need Apple to be more engaged in order for things like Metal or OGL optimization to take off. As many have pointed out...its not the sexy hardware that we all love that is the issue

 

[antonis]

Well, Apple's obsession with the integrated cards and the total lack of upgradeability surely doesn't help either.

 

[Exhale]

The hardware that comes with most new Macs is easily enough to run games (such as Overwatch), as most of us do it in Bootcamp

Uh, no. Intel's Iris series and the baseline NVIDIA/AMD mobility GPUs are way behind the specs requirements of Overwatch. (The official specs citing an Intel 4400 were an error)

 

[Irishman]

I think Apple needs to do more to support these game developers, it's an important industry for desktop computers at least. I'm guessing Apple doesn't see the value in it and therefore developers are passing on Mac versions now.

The hardware that comes with most new Macs is easily enough to run games (such as Overwatch), as most of us do it in Bootcamp, it's just the software support on OSX which has been so bad. If I could run these games in OSX for similar performance I'd be doing it all the time.

It would be nice to know what specifically what Blizzard wasn't getting from Apple.

In detail.

 

[Adam552]

Uh, no. Intel's Iris series and the baseline NVIDIA/AMD mobility GPUs are way behind the specs requirements of Overwatch. (The official specs citing an Intel 4400 were an error)

It's still enough. https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/7636

It would be nice to know what specifically what Blizzard wasn't getting from Apple.

In detail.

Indeed, so that it can be improved on to help other game devs too. Hopefully Blizzard have given Apple some feedback.

 

[Stacc]

It would be nice to know what specifically what Blizzard wasn't getting from Apple.

In detail.

While this doesn't apply to overwatch, Elite Dangerous was released for the mac roughly a year ago but they were unable to make the newest release, "Elite Dangerous: Horizons" for OS X. Horizons requires shader model 5 and compute shaders, directx11 and OpenGL 4.4 features, which are not supported in El Capitan.

 

[koyoot]

It does Apply to Overwatch .

 

[Exhale]

It's still enough. https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/7636

Did you literally not read what I wrote?

 

[Adam552]

Did you literally not read what I wrote?

I did, I'm not including the 4400 which current Macs don't even have and I'm not including low-end MacBooks in my claim.

 

[star-affinity]

Did you literally not read what I wrote?

That's pretty hefty hardware requirements.

Since Metal is available in OS X now, and Blizzard is moving their current Mac games to that (I hear Metal for WoW is in beta testing) I guess it's more about Apple not offering hardware powerful enough that the majority of users can afford. But that will of course change over time. I think we might see Overwatch on OS X eventually.

 

[koyoot]

Actually all of most current crop of Apple hardware is capable of OpenGL4.5 and Shader Model 5.0 and Tessellation. The problem is that none of the software that allows all of those features is on OSX.

It may be, and possibly will be in future, but right now there is not. Blizzard decided to not make Overwatch on OS X just because there is no software, yet. All of other games that are running Metal do not require Tess/Shader Model 5.0.
Not even Heroes of the Storm, which uses Starcraft 2 engine.

 

[Adam552]

It's also quite evident how bad OSX is for gaming from the difference in system requirements. Here is WoW for example, which Blizzard actually puts a lot of effort into it being able to run on low-end systems.
https://eu.battle.net/support/en/article/300493

Harder to see from the requirements, but I'm just trying to point out that the Mac hardware isn't that bad, if only the software support was better, maybe your hardware wouldn't feel so weak.

 

[Stacc]

Harder to see from the requirements, but I'm just trying to point out that the Mac hardware isn't that bad, if only the software support was better, maybe your hardware wouldn't feel so weak.

The hardware isn't that bad, but its not that great either. Even high end macs like the mac pro and the 27" iMac come with at best midrange graphics cards. It doesn't help that Apple has somewhat artificially limited themselves to graphics cards that consume < 150 W whereas the current top cards use ~250 W. I am sure Apple is aware their hardware is stagnating and has been waiting on new CPUs from Intel and a new generation of efficient GPUs from AMD. Regardless, the best thing Apple could do would be to bring support for external GPUs using Thunderbolt 3.

 

[Adam552]

Regardless, the best thing Apple could do would be to bring support for external GPUs using Thunderbolt 3.

I do think this is a good idea.
Keeps the design of the iMac without heat problems and allows so much more performance.

 

[MacAlien]

It may be, and possibly will be in future, but right now there is not. Blizzard decided to not make Overwatch on OS X just because there is no software, yet. All of other games that are running Metal do not require Tess/Shader Model 5.0.
Not even Heroes of the Storm, which uses Starcraft 2 engine.

I'm curious, but is there even plans from Apple to add software support for Shader, Tessellation, etc?

It's also quite evident how bad OSX is for gaming from the difference in system requirements. Here is WoW for example, which Blizzard actually puts a lot of effort into it being able to run on low-end systems.
https://eu.battle.net/support/en/article/300493

Harder to see from the requirements, but I'm just trying to point out that the Mac hardware isn't that bad, if only the software support was better, maybe your hardware wouldn't feel so weak.

It's worse in WoWs next expansion 'Legion'. Their requirements makes a huge leap, rendering even current top end setups down to middle of the pack to some extent. Live I sit relatively comfortable with 50-60fps, legion alpha I'm half that, sometime worse. It'll only get worse for OS X if Apple doesn't start supporting it properly.

 

[Noble Actual]

Welp, gonna build my own gaming PC and get Overwatch. Coming out 5.24. Hype is real.

 

[Flint Ironstag]

I'm curious, but is there even plans from Apple to add software support for Shader, Tessellation, etc?




It's worse in WoWs next expansion 'Legion'. Their requirements makes a huge leap, rendering even current top end setups down to middle of the pack to some extent. Live I sit relatively comfortable with 50-60fps, legion alpha I'm half that, sometime worse. It'll only get worse for OS X if Apple doesn't start supporting it properly.

MacAlien, I'm having a hard time finding benchmarks re: Legion on Metal. Got any links? Specifically interested in either nMP with d700s or external GPU.

Thanks in advance.

 

[wubsylol]

I'm having a hard time finding benchmarks re: Legion on Metal.

The Legion Alpha is currently so small in scope that you'll not find anything beyond forum talk and anecdotes. Check out the Legion Alpha area on the WoW forums.

I think it's fair to say that Legion performance is also nowhere near it will be at release. Both the Metal and OpenGL 3 renderers are new and still in need of more real world testing.