iPhone 6(S)/Plus iPhone 6S Plus: stay at iOS 10.1.1 or upgrade to iOS 15.5?

[Andeddu]

I‘d love to give your 6s or SE a shot. I‘m still skeptical because that number is so far removed from my experience that it sounds impossible, but yeah, we’re running around in circles at this point. I think 5 hours is impossible even with extremely light use, nevermind anything moderate like outdoors LTE. 6s users widely report far lower numbers on iOS 15. Maybe, just maybe, that number might be possible on iOS 12 at the latest, and with extremely light use. (9 and 10 are a lot better than that. I’ve used both for a combined 6 years without replacing a single battery and they‘re amazing. My 6.5-year-old 6s on iOS 10 with an original battery is flawless). Like I said, we‘re running in circles.

Oh, that I agree with. App support is the most pervasive issue of staying behind, 100%. Like I’ve stated repeatedly before, I am nobody to say that updating for app support is wrong. “The device is a glorified paperweight” is probably not an exaggeration: no iPhone since the App Store debuted was designed to merely run native apps (and like you said, Safari crumbles heavily even on my 6s on iOS 10. Half the websites don’t run).

I actually think you aren’t wrong here either! Yeah, the device will lose its complete usefulness much faster by not updating. As to why I do it: it fulfills my requirements and it runs flawlessly in terms of performance and battery life throughout its entire lifetime. I don’t use a million apps. I don’t have the most stringent support requirements. My use case… hasn‘t changed.

I had an iPhone 6s and a 9.7-inch iPad Pro on iOS 9, and I used them for exactly the same things I now use my iPhone Xʀ and iPad Air 5 on iOS 12 and iPadOS 15, respectively. So, if I don’t need the support… why diminish performance and battery life? I don’t need to do that.

Why should I update my 6s on iOS 10 when it obliterates a 6s on iOS 15 in terms of performance and battery life and does everything I need it to? It’s all drawbacks for no gain. Makes no sense. Were I to need to run many current apps, I would probably be forced to, but… it’s not my main phone and I basically just use it for messages, music, and native apps. Like you said earlier (and I agreed), should my use case evolve and expand into running apps and web browsing, I’d probably have to update. Web browsing? Yeah, I have issues. Yes, many websites that I would like to visit have components that don’t run, if they run at all. Annoying? Nope, look, here’s my iPad on iPadOS 15, I’ll use that instead. I have the devices to skirt around any and all compatibility loss. I’m better off maintaining perfect performance and battery life.

You are right that I probably wouldn’t be able to use it as my only device, but, as a second phone, surrounded by other devices? Why update? What would I gain?

So I have posted some pictures and screenshots of my SE being used today from 100% charge to 9% on a well used battery that’s sitting at 89% health after 8 months of use. The SE is on 15.7.2 which is the latest update. I have given you the benefit of the doubt by NOT using WiFi AT ALL. Every second of use was on 4G LTE. I also drained the battery unnaturally quickly by streaming videos on YouTube, Prime and Disney+ along with some mild web-browsing and music streaming also.

The numbers aren’t bad, are they? I would normally get a lot more SoT than 3 hours 40 mins because, when I was using the phone as my daily driver, it was being used for undemanding tasks like instant messaging on WhatsApp and light web-browsing rather than constant media streaming on 4G. Using the phone as I normally would with only around 1-1.5 hours of media streaming, the charge could easily last 5 hours+ of SoT. I would also connect to WiFi when at home which would massively reduce battery drain.

When I use the device on WiFi only, I can stretch the SoT to 6 hours, or 6.5 hours on a new battery, which is more than enough for most people. This is considerably higher than the 2.5 hours of SoT which you’ve been quoting. I tested this recently prior to getting my iPhone 13 when I was sick and spent my entire day in bed on my SE.

Please stop posting misinformation urging people not to update their firmware on older phones as what you are saying is massively exaggerated. The phone is DEFINITELY usable without a battery case or power brick on 15.7.2. The 6S I have lasts even longer due to the much larger battery. Users realistically lose around 10-15% of SoT going from iOS 9 to iOS 15 on the A9. There is no grand conspiracy involving the insertion of malicious malware into iOS updates to intentionally shorten battery life.

I believe your personal experience is likely based on a bad battery or some kind of bug that drains your battery abmormally quickly.

 

[FeliApple]

View attachment 2147542 View attachment 2147545 View attachment 2147538 View attachment 2147537 View attachment 2147539 View attachment 2147540 View attachment 2147541

So I have posted some pictures and screenshots of my SE being used today from 100% charge to 9% on a well used battery that’s sitting at 89% health after 8 months of use. The SE is on 15.7.2 which is the latest update. I have given you the benefit of the doubt by NOT using WiFi AT ALL. Every second of use was on 4G LTE. I also drained the battery unnaturally quickly by streaming videos on YouTube, Prime and Disney+ along with some mild web-browsing and music streaming also.

The numbers aren’t bad, are they? I would normally get a lot more SoT than 3 hours 40 mins because, when I was using the phone as my daily driver, it was being used for undemanding tasks like instant messaging on WhatsApp and light web-browsing rather than constant media streaming on 4G. Using the phone as I normally would with only around 1-1.5 hours of media streaming, the charge could easily last 5 hours+ of SoT. I would also connect to WiFi when at home which would massively reduce battery drain.

When I use the device on WiFi only, I can stretch the SoT to 6 hours, or 6.5 hours on a new battery, which is more than enough for most people. This is considerably higher than the 2.5 hours of SoT which you’ve been quoting. I tested this recently prior to getting my iPhone 13 when I was sick and spent my entire day in bed on my SE.

Please stop posting misinformation urging people not to update their firmware on older phones as what you are saying is massively exaggerated. The phone is DEFINITELY usable without a battery case or power brick on 15.7.2. The 6S I have lasts even longer due to the much larger battery. Users realistically lose around 10-15% of SoT going from iOS 9 to iOS 15 on the A9. There is no grand conspiracy involving the insertion of malicious malware into iOS updates to intentionally shorten battery life.

I believe your personal experience is likely based on a bad battery or some kind of bug that drains your battery abmormally quickly.

I would like to thank you for that, it was a good post. It seems like I was slightly underestimating runtime on iOS 15. I fully expected it to be around the 2.5-hour mark. Close to 3 hours would be within the margin of variation that any battery cycle has, 3.5 hours is a little better than I expected, even after considering that variation. I fully acknowledge that.

Still, 3.5 hours of LTE is vastly inferior to what I can get on iOS 10. I am hovering at around 6.5 to 7 hours of LTE, mostly web browsing, on mediocre signal, with the original battery standing at around 63% health. Brightness is at 50-75%, depending on outdoor sunlight, and all battery-draining settings are off (like background app refresh and Mail push). If you check the original iPhone 6s battery thread, the result is similar to those.
(See for yourself, here’s the thread, you don’t even need to check my numbers: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/hows-your-battery-life-looking-so-far.1921585/)

It is undeniable that those numbers are much higher than 3.5 hours. They hover around the 6.5 to 7-hour mark, matching what I currently get on iOS 10.

Like your own numbers show, it is definitely not 10%. 10% would mean that the device only loses around 42 minutes of runtime, meaning that it should hover around the 6-hour mark. It is way below that.

I insist with my recommendation not to update unless extremely necessary, as updating undeniably worsens performance and battery life. iOS 15 might be a smidge better than I thought (I thank you for providing actual numbers), but it isn’t anywhere near iOS 9 or 10. You can check a couple of pages from that thread to see that numbers are higher.

I will give one example, but there are many, from the third post: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/hows-your-battery-life-looking-so-far.1921585/post-21969151

Nearly 2 hours of LTE and it stands at 82% back on iOS 9. Yeah, battery life depends on a million factors, but you aren’t getting 2h on 80% regardless of what settings you use, what apps you use, and how many new batteries you throw at the phone on iOS 15.

I have an iPhone 6s on iOS 13 and I got 5 hours on Airplane Mode and Wi-Fi with 0% brightness and extremely light use. That leads me to believe that I might get around 3.5 hours like you, with LTE and usable brightness. Yeah, usable as a light user, perhaps. Good? Absolutely not. 7 hours is a full day, 3.5 hours might not be.

And the SE’s battery is even better than the 6s’ battery back on iOS 9. Smaller screen: less screen consumption. It was widely reported back then. The SE on iOS 9 is more like 8-9 hours.

 

[Andeddu]

I would like to thank you for that, it was a good post. It seems like I was slightly underestimating runtime on iOS 15. I fully expected it to be around the 2.5-hour mark. Close to 3 hours would be within the margin of variation that any battery cycle has, 3.5 hours is a little better than I expected, even after considering that variation. I fully acknowledge that.

Still, 3.5 hours of LTE is vastly inferior to what I can get on iOS 10. I am hovering at around 6.5 to 7 hours of LTE, mostly web browsing, on mediocre signal, with the original battery standing at around 63% health. Brightness is at 50-75%, depending on outdoor sunlight, and all battery-draining settings are off (like background app refresh and Mail push). If you check the original iPhone 6s battery thread, the result is similar to those.
(See for yourself, here’s the thread, you don’t even need to check my numbers: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/hows-your-battery-life-looking-so-far.1921585/)

It is undeniable that those numbers are much higher than 3.5 hours. They hover around the 6.5 to 7-hour mark, matching what I currently get on iOS 10.

Like your own numbers show, it is definitely not 10%. 10% would mean that the device only loses around 42 minutes of runtime, meaning that it should hover around the 6-hour mark. It is way below that.

I insist with my recommendation not to update unless extremely necessary, as updating undeniably worsens performance and battery life. iOS 15 might be a smidge better than I thought (I thank you for providing actual numbers), but it isn’t anywhere near iOS 9 or 10. You can check a couple of pages from that thread to see that numbers are higher.

I will give one example, but there are many, from the third post: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/hows-your-battery-life-looking-so-far.1921585/post-21969151

Nearly 2 hours of LTE and it stands at 82% back on iOS 9. Yeah, battery life depends on a million factors, but you aren’t getting 2h on 80% regardless of what settings you use, what apps you use, and how many new batteries you throw at the phone on iOS 15.

I have an iPhone 6s on iOS 13 and I got 5 hours on Airplane Mode and Wi-Fi with 0% brightness and extremely light use. That leads me to believe that I might get around 3.5 hours like you, with LTE and usable brightness. Yeah, usable as a light user, perhaps. Good? Absolutely not. 7 hours is a full day, 3.5 hours might not be.

And the SE’s battery is even better than the 6s’ battery back on iOS 9. Smaller screen: less screen consumption. It was widely reported back then. The SE on iOS 9 is more like 8-9 hours.

Yes, it appears to be greater than 10-15% battery loss due to running more demanding and less optimised software.

Like I said, the battery was being drained unnaturally quickly due to media content constantly being streamed on 4G LTE. I would normally get around 6 hours because much of my SoT would be spent on WhatsApp. I would suggest that 6 hours is enough, but perhaps on the lower side, of usable for an average person. I said before that I can get 6-6.5 hours of media streaming on Wi-Fi only which is not bad by any means.

I did not mess about with the brightness as it auto-adjusts to the room. I did nothing to save battery life but obviously had Wi-Fi & Bluetooth off throughout the duration.

iOS 13 and above is usable. iOS 12 might be usable for some apps but not for others. Anything below will result you phone being a paperweight. A phone running on below iOS 12 is not a smartphone in my eyes due to lack of functionality.

If you drained a new SE battery with 100% health to 0% you should be able to get well over 4 hours of constant media streaming in 4G LTE which would likely represent 6.5-7 hours of normal use on tasks which are far less demanding.

My main point is that the SE is usable as a daily driver on iOS 15.7.2. I know this for sure as I used it for an extensive period of time in 2022 and had no massive issue with battery. The battery would be drained by the end of the day but it was enough to get me by. I didn’t see much of a difference between the SE and 6S.

I do recall iOS 10 being better for battery as I was sometimes in bed still using my phone whereas I now have to charge it before retiring to bed.

 

[FeliApple]

Yes, it appears to be greater than 10-15% battery loss due to running more demanding and less optimised software.

Like I said, the battery was being drained unnaturally quickly due to media content constantly being streamed on 4G LTE. I would normally get around 6 hours because much of my SoT would be spent on WhatsApp. I would suggest that 6 hours is enough, but perhaps on the lower side, of usable for an average person. I said before that I can get 6-6.5 hours of media streaming on Wi-Fi only which is not bad by any means.

I did not mess about with the brightness as it auto-adjusts to the room. I did nothing to save battery life but obviously had Wi-Fi & Bluetooth off throughout the duration.

iOS 13 and above is usable. iOS 12 might be usable for some apps but not for others. Anything below will result you phone being a paperweight. A phone running on below iOS 12 is not a smartphone in my eyes due to lack of functionality.

If you drained a new SE battery with 100% health to 0% you should be able to get well over 4 hours of constant media streaming in 4G LTE which would likely represent 6.5-7 hours of normal use on tasks which are far less demanding.

My main point is that the SE is usable as a daily driver on iOS 15.7.2. I know this for sure as I used it for an extensive period of time in 2022 and had no massive issue with battery. The battery would be drained by the end of the day but it was enough to get me by. I didn’t see much of a difference between the SE and 6S.

I do recall iOS 10 being better for battery as I was sometimes in bed still using my phone whereas I now have to charge it before retiring to bed.

Yeah, I think that's where our main disagreement comes from: I said it would be a whole lot worse (which it is), and that it would be unusable as a main phone. That disagreed with your experience, because like you said, the phone had enough battery life to see you through a day, so it wasn't unusable. And I was mistaken on the 2.5-hour number, it was about one hour better than that.

I got 5 hours of light use on Full Wi-Fi on iOS 13, so I think 6 hours is a little on the optimist side on your end, but assuming the figure is more or less there (if it isn't 6 then it is 5), it might well be enough for you (and for me). I also slightly underestimated iOS 15's battery life, missing the mark by around 30 to 45 minutes (taking normal, slight runtime fluctuations into account due to usage).

I use the 6s as a main phone sometimes (I like it a lot, because it works perfectly), and Full LTE runtimes hover around the 6.5-hour mark on iOS 10 (that is, give or take half an hour, between 6 and 7). So, about 3 hours better than one on iOS 15. A little less on Wi-Fi, maybe 2.5 hours better. (Mine hovers around the 7.5 to 8-hour mark). So, averaging both, you'd lose 2h 45 min of screen-on time by updating. 33% and 40% respectively. That is... better than I thought, honestly. It's a little more than my 9.7-inch iPad Pro lost from iOS 9 to iOS 12 when it was forced by Apple (this one lost about 3.5 hours, from 14 hours to 10-11).

So yeah, with moderate use, it would barely be usable for me on iOS 15. I'd be stretching the limits, as I'm around 4 hours of usage when I use it for a full day. The 6s on iOS 10 has around 40-45% left after that, it would be gone on iOS 15.

That's the difference. Performance is significantly worse, but it is usable. Assuming you aren't a heavy user, it might be good enough for you, even if not perfect. If that is the case, then the final question about updating would be: are you willing to lose 40% of battery life by updating? And this is moderate use. Heavy use is probably worse, although I have no numbers for that, iOS 15 strains the processor more, so battery life suffers even more.
If the advantages (app compatibility mainly, and the knowledge that updating is irreversible) are good enough to sacrifice 40% of battery life (which translates into a 3-hour runtime loss) and good enough to tolerate worse performance, then you should go ahead.

 

[Andeddu]

Yeah, I think that's where our main disagreement comes from: I said it would be a whole lot worse (which it is), and that it would be unusable as a main phone. That disagreed with your experience, because like you said, the phone had enough battery life to see you through a day, so it wasn't unusable. And I was mistaken on the 2.5-hour number, it was about one hour better than that.

I got 5 hours of light use on Full Wi-Fi on iOS 13, so I think 6 hours is a little on the optimist side on your end, but assuming the figure is more or less there (if it isn't 6 then it is 5), it might well be enough for you (and for me). I also slightly underestimated iOS 15's battery life, missing the mark by around 30 to 45 minutes (taking normal, slight runtime fluctuations into account due to usage).

I use the 6s as a main phone sometimes (I like it a lot, because it works perfectly), and Full LTE runtimes hover around the 6.5-hour mark on iOS 10 (that is, give or take half an hour, between 6 and 7). So, about 3 hours better than one on iOS 15. A little less on Wi-Fi, maybe 2.5 hours better. (Mine hovers around the 7.5 to 8-hour mark). So, averaging both, you'd lose 2h 45 min of screen-on time by updating. 33% and 40% respectively. That is... better than I thought, honestly. It's a little more than my 9.7-inch iPad Pro lost from iOS 9 to iOS 12 when it was forced by Apple (this one lost about 3.5 hours, from 14 hours to 10-11).

So yeah, with moderate use, it would barely be usable for me on iOS 15. I'd be stretching the limits, as I'm around 4 hours of usage when I use it for a full day. The 6s on iOS 10 has around 40-45% left after that, it would be gone on iOS 15.

That's the difference. Performance is significantly worse, but it is usable. Assuming you aren't a heavy user, it might be good enough for you, even if not perfect. If that is the case, then the final question about updating would be: are you willing to lose 40% of battery life by updating? And this is moderate use. Heavy use is probably worse, although I have no numbers for that, iOS 15 strains the processor more, so battery life suffers even more.
If the advantages (app compatibility mainly, and the knowledge that updating is irreversible) are good enough to sacrifice 40% of battery life (which translates into a 3-hour runtime loss) and good enough to tolerate worse performance, then you should go ahead.

Yes, I think we both learned something.

I don’t believe there is much, if any, difference in battery life between iOS 13 and iOS 15 on an A9 chip. The biggest and more dramatic differences appear on iOS 9 and 10.

We both have different use cases in the end. I like using my smartphone as a smartphone. I know there are people out there who prefer dumb phones or only use their phones for very basic tasks. Remaining on a very early version of iOS would be suitable if all you are looking to do is phone calls, FaceTime, iMessages and Apple Music as nothing that is third party will function on the device. I pretty much went from an SE’16 to a 13 and, other than physical quality of life changes and dramatically faster speeds, there is almost nothing my new phone can do that the little SE’16 couldn’t. I really admire old tech that can punch above its weight and still be useful 7-8 years later.

I liked that I was able to watch stuff on YouTube, Prime, Disney+ and Netflix, steam music, chat on WhatsApp, make Skype calls, browse the web, do my online banking and much more on such an old device.

 

[FeliApple]

Yes, I think we both learned something.

I don’t believe there is much, if any, difference in battery life between iOS 13 and iOS 15 on an A9 chip. The biggest and more dramatic differences appear on iOS 9 and 10.

We both have different use cases in the end. I like using my smartphone as a smartphone. I know there are people out there who prefer dumb phones or only use their phones for very basic tasks. Remaining on a very early version of iOS would be suitable if all you are looking to do is phone calls, FaceTime, iMessages and Apple Music as nothing that is third party will function on the device. I pretty much went from an SE’16 to a 13 and, other than physical quality of life changes and dramatically faster speeds, there is almost nothing my new phone can do that the little SE’16 couldn’t. I really admire old tech that can punch above its weight and still be useful 7-8 years later.

I liked that I was able to watch stuff on YouTube, Prime, Disney+ and Netflix, steam music, chat on WhatsApp, make Skype calls, browse the web, do my online banking and much more on such an old device.

Yeah, I thought the difference between iOS 13 and 15 was higher, but if you can get 3.5 hours of LTE, that’s more or less what I would expect on iOS 13. I’d have to give it several shots with my 6s to confirm, but with only one result to rely on, it seems like they’re close enough. I wonder why people reported a significant drop, it was pretty widespread. The 2.5 number was often quoted by many. Maybe they used it for more draining apps. The difference with iOS 9 and 10, like you said, is massive. It’s almost cut in half, at least on LTE. Seems a little more stable on Wi-Fi, even if it isn’t good. It probably is a little better than half that of iOS 9 and 10.

That said, the iPhone SE was better than the 6s on iOS 9, and gsmarena’s endurance rating confirms that, so there’s a chance that the 6s is a little worse than the 3.5 hours you got, but I’ll concede the benefit of the doubt there (https://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=7242&idPhone2=7969). So yeah, it’s around there. If it’s not 40% worse it might be a little more, but the main point is that the impact is there.

I think that’s the main decision you have to make, decision which has no wrong choices. The 6s I use is not my main phone, so I don’t need it to do everything. I prefer it to do the basics right, with perfect performance and the best possible battery life, and you prefer full compatibility. That said, iOS 10 can use Netflix, it could use WhatsApp until October last year (not anymore), YouTube works, and both Apple Music and Spotify work. Disney+ probably doesn’t, Skype might, and web browsing isn’t good. So, while it isn’t as unusable as many think (not talking about you here, I’m talking about the wider internet), it isn’t perfect. I’ve always acknowledged that, but like I said, it’s a matter of a very simple choice: extended (and not perpetual) compatibility, or perfect battery life and performance. Like I said, that compatibility you have on iOS 15 will eventually worsen, and you won’t get the battery and performance back, so you’re basically just buying time at the expense of performance and battery life. As long as you are fine with that decision, it’s okay to update.

I think it’s like you said: you have to care about this not to update, because by the time iOS 15 loses compatibility, it’s very likely the user has moved on. Take the iPhone 5c. It runs iOS 10 and it is awful, but right now an iPhone 5c on iOS 10 is only barely more useful than one on iOS 7. If you don’t care about keeping one in perfect condition, you’d probably sell or give away a 5c on any iOS version: it just isn’t useful as a main device anymore (unless requirements are extremely basic, like you said).

 

[Andeddu]

Yeah, I thought the difference between iOS 13 and 15 was higher, but if you can get 3.5 hours of LTE, that’s more or less what I would expect on iOS 13. I’d have to give it several shots with my 6s to confirm, but with only one result to rely on, it seems like they’re close enough. I wonder why people reported a significant drop, it was pretty widespread. The 2.5 number was often quoted by many. Maybe they used it for more draining apps. The difference with iOS 9 and 10, like you said, is massive. It’s almost cut in half, at least on LTE. Seems a little more stable on Wi-Fi, even if it isn’t good. It probably is a little better than half that of iOS 9 and 10.

That said, the iPhone SE was better than the 6s on iOS 9, and gsmarena’s endurance rating confirms that, so there’s a chance that the 6s is a little worse than the 3.5 hours you got, but I’ll concede the benefit of the doubt there (https://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=7242&idPhone2=7969). So yeah, it’s around there. If it’s not 40% worse it might be a little more, but the main point is that the impact is there.

I think that’s the main decision you have to make, decision which has no wrong choices. The 6s I use is not my main phone, so I don’t need it to do everything. I prefer it to do the basics right, with perfect performance and the best possible battery life, and you prefer full compatibility. That said, iOS 10 can use Netflix, it could use WhatsApp until October last year (not anymore), YouTube works, and both Apple Music and Spotify work. Disney+ probably doesn’t, Skype might, and web browsing isn’t good. So, while it isn’t as unusable as many think (not talking about you here, I’m talking about the wider internet), it isn’t perfect. I’ve always acknowledged that, but like I said, it’s a matter of a very simple choice: extended (and not perpetual) compatibility, or perfect battery life and performance. Like I said, that compatibility you have on iOS 15 will eventually worsen, and you won’t get the battery and performance back, so you’re basically just buying time at the expense of performance and battery life. As long as you are fine with that decision, it’s okay to update.

I think it’s like you said: you have to care about this not to update, because by the time iOS 15 loses compatibility, it’s very likely the user has moved on. Take the iPhone 5c. It runs iOS 10 and it is awful, but right now an iPhone 5c on iOS 10 is only barely more useful than one on iOS 7. If you don’t care about keeping one in perfect condition, you’d probably sell or give away a 5c on any iOS version: it just isn’t useful as a main device anymore (unless requirements are extremely basic, like you said).

Well, like I said, I have little to no value in something that’s pretty much a brick and would retire any phone that lacks compatibility with apps. Why would I use an iPhone 6S or SE that can’t even run WhatsApp? I wouldn’t be watching YouTube on an ancient and unstable version of Safari that can barely go on basic sites like Google and Wikipedia. If my SE had such little utility, I wouldn’t require 7+ hours of LTE because there is nothing I could really do with it anyway. Why would I need all that battery life if my phone flat out cannot even browse the web competently? Furthermore, by the time my SE is a paperweight, like your device, it would be around 2027/2028 by which time you wouldn’t see me using an 11-12 year old iPhone because my 13 would have long taken its place as a secondary device.

The argument is: would you rather obtain about 30-40% battery life by staying on the original iOS version or would you rather double the useful life of the phone?

I am in the latter camp.

And, like I’ve said, my SE is not my main device either as I use a 13. My SE is simply a secondary device I use in the house to watch videos, web-browse and do all the smartphone things I mentioned. I do not intend for it to have its own cellular line anymore so it runs purely off of WiFi. The only reason I have it on LTE right now is because I am on 2 contracts and there is an overlap due to the one month of notice I have to provide my carrier. I have a 6S and 8 but both of them are in their boxes and completely retired. The 6S was recently upgraded from iOS 13 to 15 and the 8 has been upgraded from iOS 13 to 16. They are up-to-date should I ever require to use them.

 

[FeliApple]

Well, like I said, I have little to no value in something that’s pretty much a brick and would retire any phone that lacks compatibility with apps. Why would I use an iPhone 6S or SE that can’t even run WhatsApp? I wouldn’t be watching YouTube on an ancient and unstable version of Safari that can barely go on basic sites like Google and Wikipedia. If my SE had such little utility, I wouldn’t require 7+ hours of LTE because there is nothing I could really do with it anyway. Why would I need all that battery life if my phone flat out cannot even browse the web competently? Furthermore, by the time my SE is a paperweight, like your device, it would be around 2027/2028 by which time you wouldn’t see me using an 11-12 year old iPhone because my 13 would have long taken its place as a secondary device.

The argument is: would you rather obtain about 30-40% battery life by staying on the original iOS version or would you rather double the useful life of the phone?

I am in the latter camp.

And, like I’ve said, my SE is not my main device either as I use a 13. My SE is simply a secondary device I use in the house to watch videos, web-browse and do all the smartphone things I mentioned. I do not intend for it to have its own cellular line anymore so it runs purely off of WiFi. I have a 6S and 8 but both of them are in their boxes and completely retired. The 6S was upgraded from iOS 13 to 15 and the 8 has been upgraded to iOS 16. They are up-to-date should I ever require to use them.

Absolutely, you are completely right. You value near-perfect usability until obsolescence in detriment of the experience throughout the years, and I value perfect performance over medium-term reduced usability.

Like I said with the 9.7-inch iPad Pro, iOS 12 already saw a 25% battery life drop when compared to iOS 9, and iOS 11 wasn’t any good either. So, the experience continually degrades. iPadOS 16 on the 1st-gen iPad Pros seems to hover around the 7-hour mark, so a 50% decrease (which makes sense: it is 40% on iOS 15 and iPadOS 16 is a lot more demanding).

As, unfortunately, it’s not “iOS 9 through iOS 14 is amazing and the experience plummets on iOS 15”, but rather “the experience continually degraded starting with iOS 11”, I choose to maintain very decent compatibility for a long while (the experience is different: iOS 12 works quite fine today, unlike iOS 10. The compatibility thing is more like I described earlier: it plummets at once), and then... I manage. I choose to maintain perfect performance and battery life in detriment of everything else, but it is a conscious and informed choice.

Like I said: neither of our policies is wrong, both have very tangible advantages and very tangible drawbacks, and we value opposite sides. The only distinct advantage of staying behind is, like I said, it’s more of a sharp fall rather than a continuous decline.

For your use... why stay behind? You don’t value perfect performance and battery life because it is good enough for you, and you value compatibility until actual obsolescence. None of the actual, undeniable reasons to stay behind matter to you, so it makes complete sense for you to update... If I saw it like you, I’d update, too! You have some older devices which are stuck in a box, but have good compatibility should you ever need them, at least for now, and you don’t require good battery life (like I’ve said, it’s the main issue today, unlike with 32-bit devices). And if you update them and they lose their usefulness anyway... it’s okay for you. Makes complete sense from your perspective.

 

[Andeddu]

Absolutely, you are completely right. You value near-perfect usability until obsolescence in detriment of the experience throughout the years, and I value perfect performance over medium-term reduced usability.

Like I said with the 9.7-inch iPad Pro, iOS 12 already saw a 25% battery life drop when compared to iOS 9, and iOS 11 wasn’t any good either. So, the experience continually degrades. iPadOS 16 on the 1st-gen iPad Pros seems to hover around the 7-hour mark, so a 50% decrease (which makes sense: it is 40% on iOS 15 and iPadOS 16 is a lot more demanding).

As, unfortunately, it’s not “iOS 9 through iOS 14 is amazing and the experience plummets on iOS 15”, but rather “the experience continually degraded starting with iOS 11”, I choose to maintain very decent compatibility for a long while (the experience is different: iOS 12 works quite fine today, unlike iOS 10. The compatibility thing is more like I described earlier: it plummets at once), and then... I manage. I choose to maintain perfect performance and battery life in detriment of everything else, but it is a conscious and informed choice.

Like I said: neither of our policies is wrong, both have very tangible advantages and very tangible drawbacks, and we value opposite sides. The only distinct advantage of staying behind is, like I said, it’s more of a sharp fall rather than a continuous decline.

For your use... why stay behind? You don’t value perfect performance and battery life because it is good enough for you, and you value compatibility until actual obsolescence. None of the actual, undeniable reasons to stay behind matter to you, so it makes complete sense for you to update... If I saw it like you, I’d update, too! You have some older devices which are stuck in a box, but have good compatibility should you ever need them, at least for now, and you don’t require good battery life (like I’ve said, it’s the main issue today, unlike with 32-bit devices). And if you update them and they lose their usefulness anyway... it’s okay for you. Makes complete sense from your perspective.

I can’t disagree with what you’ve said as your reasons for staying behind make sense to you and my reasons for upgrading make sense to me.

I had an iPad Mini 4 which was on iPadOS 10 in 2021 and it wasn’t particularly useful to me. The device could barely browse the web and was only useful for YouTube videos. It was a secondary iPad anyway as I have a Mini 5 so I didn’t care to upgrade it however I eventually did so that I could regain YouTube app compatibility again. I wish I had carried out some battery tests on iPadOS 10 when I had the chance. The device is now sitting on iPadOS 15 & I do feel as though the battery life has significantly shortened. I guess it’s not surprising as the A8 must constantly be getting pushed on iPadOS 15.

I am still glad I updated though as I was planning on retiring the device until it became useful again. The web-browsing experience is poor but it is still a great media streaming device which is fully supported by all apps.

 

[FeliApple]

I can’t disagree with what you’ve said as your reasons for staying behind make sense to you and my reasons for upgrading make sense to me.

I had an iPad Mini 4 which was on iPadOS 10 in 2021 and it wasn’t particularly useful to me. The device could barely browse the web and was only useful for YouTube videos. It was a secondary iPad anyway as I have a Mini 5 so I didn’t care to upgrade it however I eventually did so that I could regain YouTube app compatibility again. I wish I had carried out some battery tests on iPadOS 10 when I had the chance. The device is now sitting on iPadOS 15 & I do feel as though the battery life has significantly shortened. I guess it’s not surprising as the A8 must constantly be getting pushed on iPadOS 15.

I am still glad I updated though as I was planning on retiring the device until it became useful again. The web-browsing experience is poor but it is still a great media streaming device which is fully supported by all apps.

Yeah, an A8 on iPadOS 15 won’t be a great experience, at least in terms of battery life. But yeah, again, you updated it and you can use it as a media device and web browsing, activities which you couldn’t do on iOS 10, even if you lost battery life and performance isn’t as great, you can use it. How’s performance?

I’ve found that battery life issues lose importance when I upgrade the device, especially when it doesn’t render it unusable. I upgraded from my 9.7-inch iPad Pro to the Air 5. That 9.7-inch Pro, like I said, was forced out of iOS 9 by Apple’s A9 activation bug on iOS 9, in which the devices with that combination would deactivate and you’d have to update. Out of options, I updated to the then-current iOS 12. Performance is fine, but battery life dropped 25%, like I said, from 14 hours to 10.5. You know I value like-new battery life, and it bothered me a lot, especially considering it wasn’t even voluntary. Now I upgraded, I really like the 9.7-inch iPad Pro (which I still use, and which will hopefully forever remain on iOS 12), and battery issues have lost importance because if it bothers me I can always use the Air 5. And it isn’t like it’s 50% like on iPadOS 16, battery life is half-decent.

 

[Andeddu]

Yeah, an A8 on iPadOS 15 won’t be a great experience, at least in terms of battery life. But yeah, again, you updated it and you can use it as a media device and web browsing, activities which you couldn’t do on iOS 10, even if you lost battery life and performance isn’t as great, you can use it. How’s performance?

I’ve found that battery life issues lose importance when I upgrade the device, especially when it doesn’t render it unusable. I upgraded from my 9.7-inch iPad Pro to the Air 5. That 9.7-inch Pro, like I said, was forced out of iOS 9 by Apple’s A9 activation bug on iOS 9, in which the devices with that combination would deactivate and you’d have to update. Out of options, I updated to the then-current iOS 12. Performance is fine, but battery life dropped 25%, like I said, from 14 hours to 10.5. You know I value like-new battery life, and it bothered me a lot, especially considering it wasn’t even voluntary. Now I upgraded, I really like the 9.7-inch iPad Pro (which I still use, and which will hopefully forever remain on iOS 12), and battery issues have lost importance because if it bothers me I can always use the Air 5. And it isn’t like it’s 50% like on iPadOS 16, battery life is half-decent.

The performance isn’t horrendous or as bad as you might think. The fact that I still regularly use the device to web-browse is saying something. A small chunk of my posts on MacRumors have been made on the Mini 4. There is lag and that is undeniable with choppiness being part and parcel of using an 8 year old iPad on a very recent OS designed for much more powerful devices. Video playback is where is shines as it’s no different to any other iPad. Like you said, battery life becomes far less important when you are in possession of multiple devices. If my Mini 4 needs charged, I charge it and use the Mini 5. The SE’s use case is as a media player in bed as it’s so light and comfortable to hold. I like watching an episode of whatever on Prime, Disney+ or Netflix as I fall asleep and there is no device in existence with such perfect weight and dimensions that can do that job better than the SE.

If a device has no use to me, such as my 6S or 8, I stick it back in its box and place it into a dark cupboard which is in stark contrast to certain users on this board who advocate liquidating older devices.

It’s been an interesting chat and I have sure learned a few things. Nothing I’ve learned will stop me from updating my devices, obviously, haha… but I can see why someone like yourself would be reluctant to move on. Obviously updating incrementally would be the happy medium allowing you to preserve as much battery life as possible and still have full access to the app suite by staying 2-3 versions of iOS behind the latest update.

 

[FeliApple]

The performance isn’t horrendous or as bad as you might think. The fact that I still regularly use the device to web-browse is saying something. A small chunk of my posts on MacRumors have been made on the Mini 4. There is lag and that is undeniable with choppiness being part and parcel of using an 8 year old iPad on a very recent OS designed for much more powerful devices. Video playback is where is shines as it’s no different to any other iPad. Like you said, battery life becomes far less important when you are in possession of multiple devices. If my Mini 4 needs charged, I charge it and use the Mini 5. The SE’s use case is as a media player in bed as it’s so light and comfortable to hold. I like watching an episode of whatever on Prime, Disney+ or Netflix as I fall asleep and there is no device in existence with such perfect weight and dimensions that can do that job better than the SE.

If a device has no use to me, such as my 6S or 8, I stick it back in its box and place it into a dark cupboard which is in stark contrast to certain users on this board who advocate liquidating older devices.

It’s been an interesting chat and I have sure learned a few things. Nothing I’ve learned will stop me from updating my devices, obviously, haha… but I can see why someone like yourself would be reluctant to move on. Obviously updating incrementally would be the happy medium allowing you to preserve as much battery life as possible and still have full access to the app suite by staying 2-3 versions of iOS behind the latest update.

Yeah, I’ve said that while performance inevitably declines, it is a lot better than it used to be. It is far more usable, even if it is far from perfect. It wasn’t always like that; in fact, it used to be the opposite: I have an iPhone 5c on iOS 10. Battery life is surprisingly very decent, but performance is abhorrent, the device is unusable. Your Mini 4 is the opposite: half-decent performance, even if it is not perfect, and battery life is very poor. Just like the 6s. But yeah, battery life stops being as key once you upgrade or if you use the device for music.

Yeah, the liquidating older devices just because they aren’t updated argument is not good at all: just like I said in response to that post, I don’t have a single device on iOS or iPadOS 16. I’d have to throw literally everything away.

Yeah, we both seem pretty convinced by each of the advantages of our decisions, which makes sense.

Updating incrementally would improve the situation very temporarily, because while the impact is a little more muted, support is still lost quite quickly. I will give one example that I have: the 9.7-inch iPad Pro. The battery life run through is more or less: 14 hours on iOS 9; 10-11 hours on iOS 12; 6-7 hours on iPadOS 16, if that. The performance run-through is better: perfect or near-perfect on iOS 9 through 12, falls off a cliff according to forum reports on iPadOS 13 through 15, and worsens even more on iPadOS 16. For longevity’s sake, if you try for a little balance, the perfect version would be the one I am on: iOS 12. But battery life isn’t the same, and I know it isn’t. Highly temporary compatibility can’t offset that. At least going all the way through guarantees full compatibility for far longer.

I think that like many things in life, there’s a currency here: you sell battery life and performance in exchange for temporary compatibility. The more that compatibility extends, the more performance and battery life you give away. While they aren’t directly proportional, the overall gist is correct, I think. How much performance and battery do you want to spend? Well, that’s a very individual decision. Mine is 0. None. I’m not willing to give 10 minutes of battery life and I’m not willing to give 1ms of response time. I want perfection, and take away all the compatibility you like. I fully acknowledge that my view is... quite extreme.

 

[Andeddu]

Yeah, I’ve said that while performance inevitably declines, it is a lot better than it used to be. It is far more usable, even if it is far from perfect. It wasn’t always like that; in fact, it used to be the opposite: I have an iPhone 5c on iOS 10. Battery life is surprisingly very decent, but performance is abhorrent, the device is unusable. Your Mini 4 is the opposite: half-decent performance, even if it is not perfect, and battery life is very poor. Just like the 6s. But yeah, battery life stops being as key once you upgrade or if you use the device for music.

Yeah, the liquidating older devices just because they aren’t updated argument is not good at all: just like I said in response to that post, I don’t have a single device on iOS or iPadOS 16. I’d have to throw literally everything away.

Yeah, we both seem pretty convinced by each of the advantages of our decisions, which makes sense.

Updating incrementally would improve the situation very temporarily, because while the impact is a little more muted, support is still lost quite quickly. I will give one example that I have: the 9.7-inch iPad Pro. The battery life run through is more or less: 14 hours on iOS 9; 10-11 hours on iOS 12; 6-7 hours on iPadOS 16, if that. The performance run-through is better: perfect or near-perfect on iOS 9 through 12, falls off a cliff according to forum reports on iPadOS 13 through 15, and worsens even more on iPadOS 16. For longevity’s sake, if you try for a little balance, the perfect version would be the one I am on: iOS 12. But battery life isn’t the same, and I know it isn’t. Highly temporary compatibility can’t offset that. At least going all the way through guarantees full compatibility for far longer.

I think that like many things in life, there’s a currency here: you sell battery life and performance in exchange for temporary compatibility. The more that compatibility extends, the more performance and battery life you give away. While they aren’t directly proportional, the overall gist is correct, I think. How much performance and battery do you want to spend? Well, that’s a very individual decision. Mine is 0. None. I’m not willing to give 10 minutes of battery life and I’m not willing to give 1ms of response time. I want perfection, and take away all the compatibility you like. I fully acknowledge that my view is... quite extreme.

I am very impressed by the Mini 4’s performance on iPadOS 15 given that the A8 chip is dramatically weaker than the A9 chip. I am also glad that iOS 15 is the last major update on A9 iPhones as Apple has provided 7 years of glorious support without massively compromising performance.

The A9 runs iOS 15 handsomely and users can only really notice choppiness when multitasking social media apps with lots of photographs, embedded videos and animations. I agree that older phones suffer far worse with their end of life updates. My iPad Mini on iPadOS 9 likely runs as bad as your 5c on iOS 10. It’s a truly awful experience and even I think Apple should have killed off the A5 on iOS/iPadOS 8.

You are a battery and performance extremist who really does not represent Apple’s userbase whereas I represent the average consumer albeit with some minor quirks. You have to concede that your preservation of battery and performance will all be for naught one day as your devices will eventually be stripped of all basic functionality including FaceTime, Podcasts, all web-browsing, music streaming, etc… for example, the iPhone 2G & 3GS are bricks with zero functionality. In a number of years our A9 devices are going to join that club and be nothing more than beautiful paperweights. That is why I place temporary functionality above performance and battery life. I want to enjoy my technology to the fullest while they are still supported by the manufacturer as all electronics have a defined self life and, unlike you, I do not want to be responsible for artificially shortening the usefulness of my own devices.

 

[FeliApple]

I am very impressed by the Mini 4’s performance on iPadOS 15 given that the A8 chip is dramatically weaker than the A9 chip. I am also glad that iOS 15 is the last major update on A9 iPhones as Apple has provided 7 years of glorious support without massively compromising performance.

The A9 runs iOS 15 handsomely and users can only really notice choppiness when multitasking social media apps with lots of photographs, embedded videos and animations. I agree that older phones suffer far worse with their end of life updates. My iPad Mini on iPadOS 9 likely runs as bad as your 5c on iOS 10. It’s a truly awful experience and even I think Apple should have killed off the A5 on iOS/iPadOS 8.

You are a battery and performance extremist who really does not represent Apple’s userbase whereas I represent the average consumer albeit with some minor quirks. You have to concede that your preservation of battery and performance will all be for naught one day as your devices will eventually be stripped of all basic functionality including FaceTime, Podcasts, all web-browsing, music streaming, etc… for example, the iPhone 2G & 3GS are bricks with zero functionality. In a number of years our A9 devices are going to join that club and be nothing more than beautiful paperweights. That is why I place temporary functionality above performance and battery life. I want to enjoy my technology to the fullest while they are still supported by the manufacturer as all electronics have a defined self life and, unlike you, I do not want to be responsible for artificially shortening the usefulness of my own devices.

Agree, iOS 16 would‘ve rendered A9 iPhones inoperable (by any decent standards, anyway), and if battery life on iOS 15 is already poor, iOS 16 would’ve rendered them unusable as a main device (arguably, they already are. 3-3.5 hours of use is not enough for all but the lightest of users). Performance decreased on iOS 15, very severely, but not enough so as to render them inoperable, like you said. iOS 16 probably would have. Like you stated, we’ve seen what happens when Apple stops too late. The Mini 1 is even slower than the 5c. I have extensively tested one. If you have any standards at all, it’s completely useless.

Yeah, I agree. I‘m the extreme minority here. I don’t even see many cases of this even here, on an enthusiasts forum. I’ve encountered one person who kept devices on an older version of iOS (one, at least: an iPhone 6 on iOS 10). Everybody else that I know that doesn’t update has been convinced never to update by… me.
On other enthusiasts forums you encounter one case among thousands, with almost everyone recommending to update, often for no reason at all.
Leaving the anecdotal for a second aside, general Apple statistics show that I am indeed a scientifically proven minority, with Apple’s own reported adoption rates of new iOS versions only increasing, and staggeringly high.

94%!! of compatible devices ran iOS 15 and 16 three months after launch (see: https://www.macrumors.com/2022/12/09/ios-16-adoption-nearly-100-days-launch/), which is an absolutely massive number of devices. Excluding my Air 5 (which can run iPadOS 15 as its earliest version), do you want to know how many devices I have that run iOS 15 or 16 but are compatible with earlier versions? The number is 0. None.

I reckon that for music streaming older devices will always be useful. Apple Music debuted on iOS 9 and it still works on every compatible version. Older versions of many apps will always run, with Telegram still supporting iOS 6 onwards and iMessage properly working on iOS 5 (I have tried it! I have an iPod Touch 4G running stock iOS 5.0.1, it still works). Basic functionality will always be there. My 6s on iOS 10 does everything I want it to, other than a couple of apps and mediocre web browsing.

However, I cannot and will not deny that I am shortening the device’s lifetime as far as compatibility goes. Like I said, I have not and will not deny that even non-updated devices are, at some point, old enough so as to be useless: I have an iPhone 5s on iOS 8 that can‘t even use Apple Music. It is only useful for stock apps like Messages, web browsing is probably completely useless, and it has absolutely nothing of value to me by now. It’s stuck in a drawer. I have a flawless iPod Touch 5G on its first version ever (iOS 6.0), and I haven’t used it in years. I acknowledge that I am shortening the device’s lifetime, but for example, my 6s on iOS 10 still does what I want it to do. Were I to update, I’d use it for… the exact same things I’m using it now, with far worse performance and unusable battery life. The iPod Touch 5G wouldn’t be used even on the latest version, iOS 9.3.5. There comes a point in which the device is obsolete on any iOS version. I’d rather have it on the earliest one I can.

I assume my 6s will always work for this, so it will always have some value, even if only as a music and messages device. Many third-party apps work too! Even if with an older version, they do everything the latest version does. I’d argue that in spite of compatibility loss, older iOS versions’ long-term usefulness is only increasing. Time will tell whether eventually the 6s reaches iOS 5-levels of uselessness or it remains like it is now. I assume Podcasts and FaceTime will work for a long time. I think they only stopped working on iOS 6 (at least FaceTime did), due to an expired certificate issue, if I’m not mistaken. Perhaps the iOS 10 certificate will expire, too, but for now it works. Podcasts work too.

But yeah, you purchase temporary compatibility with unrecoverable performance and battery life, and you’re happy with your decision. That’s all that matters.

 

[Paddle1]

Apple Music debuted on iOS 9 and it still works on every compatible version.

Apple Music was introduced in iOS 8.4 and while I'm sure it still works you are missing out on a few things like spatial audio and lossless. I'm guessing you can't connect to HomePod or AirPods either. I suppose it pretty much still works as originally intended, for now at least.

 

[FeliApple]

Apple Music was introduced in iOS 8.4 and while I'm sure it still works you are missing out on a few things like spatial audio and lossless. I'm guessing you can't connect to HomePod or AirPods either. I suppose it pretty much still works as originally intended, for now at least.

8.4?! Oh, that’s a shame. I never knew, thanks for the info. I have an iPhone 5s on iOS 8.2 I could’ve updated to use it. Now it’s too late. Yeah, it works perfectly on iOS 10, but I don’t have those features. It is one of my often mentioned tradeoffs of never updating. Advantages and disadvantages, you have to tolerate several disadvantages to get the advantages.

I can confirm that AirPods work on iOS 10, and I assume HomePods work, too!

Considering iMessage works on iOS 5, I assume it will keep working forever. Like you said, I will not get any features, but basic functionality will remain intact.

Funnily enough, there’s a bug on iOS 10.0 (the version I am in), in which Apple Music downloads don’t start, the little wheel just keeps spinning. I have to reboot for it to work. I assume it was fixed on a subsequent version of iOS 10.

 

[I7guy]

8.4?! Oh, that’s a shame. I never knew, thanks for the info. I have an iPhone 5s on iOS 8.2 I could’ve updated to use it. Now it’s too late. Yeah, it works perfectly on iOS 10, but I don’t have those features. It is one of my often mentioned tradeoffs of never updating. Advantages and disadvantages, you have to tolerate several disadvantages to get the advantages.

I can confirm that AirPods work on iOS 10, and I assume HomePods work, too!

Considering iMessage works on iOS 5, I assume it will keep working forever. Like you said, I will not get any features, but basic functionality will remain intact.

Funnily enough, there’s a bug on iOS 10.0 (the version I am in), in which Apple Music downloads don’t start, the little wheel just keeps spinning. I have to reboot for it to work. I assume it was fixed on a subsequent version of iOS 10.

I can't see the advantages(*) of using multiple pieces of old hardware, combined into one functional unit. While I always acknowledge to each their own, ios 10 offers no objective benefit over ios 16 as Windows xp offers not benefit over windows 10. And while there are things I can't do very efficiently on my iphone it's not a limitation of ios, it's a size limitation of the device. Streaming apps seems to be why, but at some are already mandating ios 14 as a minimum and no doubt this will become more common place.
- netflix ios 15
- sxm ios 14
- prime ios 14

So out of the above, apple music will still work. Slim pickings.

Maybe it's a feel good thing, something familiar over something new. I don't know.

(*) - keeping old hardware viable and out of the landfill

 

[FeliApple]

I can't see the advantages(*) of using multiple pieces of old hardware, combined into one functional unit. While I always acknowledge to each their own, ios 10 offers no objective benefit over ios 16 as Windows xp offers not benefit over windows 10. And while there are things I can't do very efficiently on my iphone it's not a limitation of ios, it's a size limitation of the device.

Maybe it's a feel good thing, something familiar over something new. I don't know.

(*) - keeping old hardware viable and out of the landfill

Like I mentioned throughout my previous comments, performance and battery life are the advantages. They remain like-new forever.

For many people, the drawbacks are too heavy, and it is understandable. App support and feature support.

If you upgrade your devices frequently, and/or can tolerate performance and - especially - battery life regressions, and instead value the viability of a full experience of the device, at least for a while longer, it makes no sense to stay behind. Like I said earlier, by updating you purchase temporary compatibility and features with performance and battery life (emphasis on temporary, update a device as far as it can go and you lose compatibility and app support regardless eventually, with worse performance and battery life to boot). How much of that are you willing to spend? That varies person to person, and there is no correct answer.

 

[Andeddu]

Like I mentioned throughout my previous comments, performance and battery life are the advantages. They remain like-new forever.

For many people, the drawbacks are too heavy, and it is understandable. App support and feature support.

If you upgrade your devices frequently, and/or can tolerate performance and - especially - battery life regressions, and instead value the viability of a full experience of the device, at least for a while longer, it makes no sense to stay behind. Like I said earlier, by updating you purchase temporary compatibility and features with performance and battery life (emphasis on temporary, update a device as far as it can go and you lose compatibility and app support regardless eventually, with worse performance and battery life to boot). How much of that are you willing to spend? That varies person to person, and there is no correct answer.

Most people are not willing to give up 5 years of app support on their devices when phones are considered ‘throw away’ devices in this day and age.

Like I have mentioned before, you have a 6S which is almost already a paperweight which will, in a number of years, have no more functionality than a dumb phone. You ALREADY cannot do much with your phone! Why do you need it to be fast? All you have is a fast paperweight.

You are an extremist which is why it is almost impossible to have a normal discussion with you. That’s fine though as you are entitled to do whatever you want with your own devices. I can assure you though that 99.99999% of the world’s population do not care about having a fast paperweight with a lot of battery life with which to do nothing.

The mind boggles, lol.

Sorry if I sound a little harsh but I have never met anyone like you online or in real life before. It’s baffling that you think the way you think but I guess we do need people with opposing views that are almost 100% contrary to everyone else’s.

 

[AppleFanatic10]

Battery life is the biggest issue and I can’t see how you’re saying I’m exaggerating especially when you used/are using one, but yeah, let‘s agree to disagree here.

Agree completely on performance: it is significantly worse, but usable on newer devices. The iPad Mini 1 is an absolute paperweight on iOS 9. It is pathetically slow, and Apple should never have pushed it that far. I will never understand how in the world that passed through testing and I am irresolute in my assessment that Apple letting the A5 processor run iOS 9 while disallowing downgrading amounts to outright malware. Whether it was on purpose and the endless programmed obsolescence debate here is irrelevant: The A5 processor running iOS 9 is Apple-installed malware, whether it was on purpose or not, doesn’t matter.

I said this in a different comment: “Ultimately, and in spite of my persistent recommendations not to update, the whole point is for the device to be useful to the person who uses it, and another important factor is for the person to like the device. Your experience on iOS 9 started to break and you updated it, and that’s okay. You’ve stated that the device is more useful to you on iOS 15 than it was on iOS 9, and as long as you like it, then I’d say that you made the right call! Unless you want to keep it as a relic (which depends on whether you even care about that), keeping a device on a useless iOS version (to you) is ultimately debatable: yes, the device probably performs better on iOS 9 and 10 in every aspect... but it is useless on that version, so it works better but it can’t do anything. Yes, it will eventually encounter the same fate on iOS 15 and with far worse performance and battery life, but at least it gets some more years of full functionality. As you can see, I’m not completely blindfolded as to the benefits of updating, even if I’ll never do so myself, unless forced“. So yeah, as long as you’re okay with the drawbacks, I agree.

My rationale is exactly the same I described on my previous paragraph, in which I talked about the benefits of updating: do I care more about maintaining forever flawless performance and battery life, or do I care more about getting temporary app support and some features which, in my view, are ultimately undermined by any and all performance and battery life issues? I think my answer has been clear: I choose the advantages of staying behind over its drawbacks, whilst being fully informed: battery life and performance forever over features and app support. It is a choice which has no incorrect decisions. We are on opposite sides of that choice, but it doesn’t mean either one of us is wrong.

I completely agree with you here. I have a iMac from 2014 and let me tell you, I'm annoyed at myself for installing Big Sur. Yes, it works but it's completely slow. I get the beach ball just from booting my iMac up.

OP, just telling you from experience; if you decide to update your iP6 to the latest firmware it can "handle" you're going to want to throw your phone out the window. It's gonna be hell.

 

[I7guy]

Like I mentioned throughout my previous comments, performance and battery life are the advantages. They remain like-new forever.

Performance and battery life don't seem to be a real advantage as much as a perceived advantage. But you may think otherwise.

For many people, the drawbacks are too heavy, and it is understandable. App support and feature support.

It's not my hardware, but as one who has two 5s on ios 12, the drawbacks of not being on ios 12 outweigh the disadvantages.

If you upgrade your devices frequently, and/or can tolerate performance and - especially - battery life regressions, and instead value the viability of a full experience of the device, at least for a while longer, it makes no sense to stay behind. Like I said earlier, by updating you purchase temporary compatibility and features with performance and battery life (emphasis on temporary, update a device as far as it can go and you lose compatibility and app support regardless eventually, with worse performance and battery life to boot). How much of that are you willing to spend? That varies person to person, and there is no correct answer.

For the objective benefits of ios 15 vs ios 10, what are the real battery life implications and performance in the way you use the phone? People who operate their iphone as a dumb flip phone should get a flip phone.

And you use the word temporary. Temporary could mean 3 years of increased productivity due to the improvements in ios over the years. IRL, I rarely see these types of conversations. People understand that updating your ios, as applying windows patches, ultimately results in an improved experience.

You've already made up your mind, but someone else in this scenario may benefit from this convo.

 

[FeliApple]

Most people are not willing to give up 5 years of app support on their devices when phones are considered ‘throw away’ devices in this day and age.

Like I have mentioned before, you have a 6S which is almost already a paperweight which will, in a number of years, have no more functionality than a dumb phone. You ALREADY cannot do much with your phone! Why do you need it to be fast? All you have is a fast paperweight.

You are an extremist which is why it is almost impossible to have a normal discussion with you. That’s fine though as you are entitled to do whatever you want with your own devices. I can assure you though that 99.99999% of the world’s population do not care about having a fast paperweight with a lot of battery life with which to do nothing.

The mind boggles, lol.

Sorry if I sound a little harsh but I have never met anyone like you online or in real life before. It’s baffling that you think the way you think but I guess we do need people with opposing views that are almost 100% contrary to everyone else’s.

Hold on, this wasn’t a normal conversation? I think it was a perfectly calm exchange of ideas and opinions, no insults, no hassle. We found middle ground in some aspects!

I totally agree, most people aren’t willing to give the compatibility up, which explains the incessant global update statistics. And like I said before, I understand. But there are many, many people who don’t update, and there are even more people who would downgrade many devices if Apple were to allow it. I guarantee that I am most definitely not the only one. We are the extreme minority, however, like statistics show.

As another person who likes enthusiast forums like me, I am extremely surprised that you have never come across this view. It might be rare, but like I said, I am far, far from being the only one.

I don’t know if I mentioned this before, but I have other devices. That helps. If my 6s on iOS 10 can’t download something, maybe my Xʀ on iOS 12 can, or my iPad Air 5 on iPadOS 15. If I cannot visit a website on iOS 10, I can guarantee that my Air 5 will be able to. I can skirt around OS requirements (though not always), and if I can… why give up the extremely tangible advantages of staying behind? Give me the 6s on iOS 10 as my only device and I’d struggle. I admit that with a single device, skirting around my approach’s limitations becomes increasingly difficult, but then again, I‘ve never denied that.

 

[Andeddu]

Hold on, this wasn’t a normal conversation? I think it was a perfectly calm exchange of ideas and opinions, no insults, no hassle. We found middle ground in some aspects!

I totally agree, most people aren’t willing to give the compatibility up, which explains the incessant global update statistics. And like I said before, I understand. But there are many, many people who don’t update, and there are even more people who would downgrade many devices if Apple were to allow it. I guarantee that I am most definitely not the only one. We are the extreme minority, however, like statistics show.

As another person who likes enthusiast forums like me, I am extremely surprised that you have never come across this view. It might be rare, but like I said, I am far, far from being the only one.

I don’t know if I mentioned this before, but I have other devices. That helps. If my 6s on iOS 10 can’t download something, maybe my Xʀ on iOS 12 can, or my iPad Air 5 on iPadOS 15. If I cannot visit a website on iOS 10, I can guarantee that my Air 5 will be able to. I can skirt around OS requirements (though not always), and if I can… why give up the extremely tangible advantages of staying behind? Give me the 6s on iOS 10 as my only device and I’d struggle. I admit that with a single device, skirting around my approach’s limitations becomes increasingly difficult, but then again, I‘ve never denied that.

My main point is that you’re really shooting yourself in the foot by doing what you’re doing. The other poster asked why do you have so many devices on antiquated versions of iOS when you can just have one updated device to do everything?

I gave you my use case for having an SE. My main phone is a 13, I use it for everything. It is connected to my Bluetooth speaker in the house, my wireless earbuds, Bluetooth in my car, it is my media streamer, instant messenger, web-browsing device, payment device and everything else smart phone related. The SE, now that it is no longer my daily driver, is really just a media streamer for when I am in bed due to its small form factor.

Why do you need different devices on separate iOS versions when you can just have one device? Why multiple phones and multiple iPads? All you are doing is complicating things by not updating iOS.

What’s the point of having a 6S on iOS 10? Like I said, there is nothing much you can do with it so why do you require all that battery life? Are you going to iMessage & FaceTime on your 6S for 13 hours through the duration of one day? The XR does everything your 6S does (albeit less than my SE) and much, much more, so what’s the point of having a 6S that’s just a dumb phone when you already have an XR that has full (or almost full) functionality?

Are you just a battery health preserving enthusiast? Because that’s the only angle I can look at this that makes any sense.

 

[FeliApple]

Performance and battery life don't seem to be a real advantage as much as a perceived advantage. But you may think otherwise.

It's not my hardware, but as one who has two 5s on ios 12, the drawbacks of not being on ios 12 outweigh the disadvantages.

For the objective benefits of ios 15 vs ios 10, what are the real battery life implications and performance in the way you use the phone? People who operate their iphone as a dumb flip phone should get a flip phone.

And you use the word temporary. Temporary could mean 3 years of increased productivity due to the improvements in ios over the years. IRL, I rarely see these types of conversations. People understand that updating your ios, as applying windows patches, ultimately results in an improved experience.

You've already made up your mind, but someone else in this scenario may benefit from this convo.

-I think they’re a real advantage, honestly. We discussed actual numbers with @Andeddu earlier.

-I wouldn’t use the 5s regardless of the iOS version, but maybe having Apple Music would be cool. I guess I could’ve updated it to iOS 8.4, but it’s worth noting that I am not moving from the major version the phone came with, which is when issues arise (yes, it was released with iOS 7, but I bought it later, with iOS 8). As for your second point, I have never denied that from many people the advantages of updating outweigh the drawbacks. I have always stated that it’s completely subjective and that I am nobody to criticize that.

My only qualm is when people deny it. It is almost certain based on thousands of posts I’ve seen like this, that if I were to post something like “I am concerned about updating my iPhone Xʀ from iOS 12 to iOS 16. I don’t need any apps because everything I need works fine, but I am concerned about battery life and performance, I want perfect battery life, should I update?”, I’d be flooded with replies like “have you thought about security? And also, my battery life is fine on iOS 16”. It isn’t as good as on iOS 12, and a realistically helpful reply would mention that. On the 6s, the impact is even more glaring.

-There is a significant battery life impact, at least about a 40% immediate, irreversible drop, perhaps more. Performance might be a little better, but I have a 6s on iOS 13 and there is a moderately severe keyboard lag on iOS 13. It is absolutely flawless on iOS 10. I’ve used a 6s on iOS 9 and 10 from over 6 years, trust me when I tell you that I’d notice everything were I to update. Battery life on iOS 10 is about 8 hours on Wi-Fi, 6.5 on LTE. Battery life on iOS 15 is 4-5 hours on Wi-Fi, at best, and about 3-3.5 hours on LTE. Whether that drop off is worth it can only be determined by every individual based on their priorities.

-Like I mentioned, that I agree completely with. There’s no denying the benefits of updating, and yes I lost full compatibility with iOS 10 back in 2017, whereas a 6s on iOS 15 only lost it in 2022. Five years, it’s quite significant. I wouldn’t call it an improved experience (after all, the performance and battery life issues are undeniable), but I’d call it a more complete experience. A 6s user on iOS 15, even today, can run and do far more than I can.

I agree, people might benefit from this conversation. Ultimately, I think it’s a matter of analysing advantages and drawbacks, seeing how they impact on your use case, and making a decision based on that.

 

[FeliApple]

My main point is that you’re really shooting yourself in the foot by doing what you’re doing. The other poster asked why do you have so many devices on antiquated versions of iOS when you can just have one updated device to do everything?

I gave you my use case for having an SE. My main phone is a 13, I use it for everything. It is connected to my Bluetooth speaker in the house, my wireless earbuds, Bluetooth in my car, it is my media streamer, instant messenger, web-browsing device, payment device and everything else smart phone related. The SE, now that it is no longer my daily driver, is really just a media streamer for when I am in bed due to its small form factor.

Why do you need different devices on separate iOS versions when you can just have one device? Why multiple phones and multiple iPads? All you are doing is complicating things by not updating iOS.

What’s the point of having a 6S on iOS 10? Like I said, there is nothing much you can do with it so why do you require all that battery life? Are you going to iMessage & FaceTime on your 6S for 13 hours through the duration of one day? The XR does everything your 6S does (albeit less than my SE) and much, much more, so what’s the point of having a 6S that’s just a dumb phone when you already have an XR that has full (or almost full) functionality?

Are you just a battery health preserving enthusiast? Because that’s the only angle I can look at this that makes any sense.

Honestly… because I like it this way. I don’t even need the battery life: Full day uses of my Xʀ frequently finish with 4 hours of screen-on time, which drop the Xʀ to… 80%. On LTE, if the screen-on time is similar, battery life drops to… 70-75%.

I use the 6s as a phone too, and I do need iOS 10 there. iOS 15 would‘ve been a hassle many times and it is likely that I would have needed a charger on heavier usage days (I do not need it with iOS 10), but yeah, on the Xʀ? My own estimates show it gets me about 12 hours of full LTE use. Let’s assume it drops a third on iOS 16, maybe a little more. To 7 hours. Is that not enough? Nope, it is. I don’t have a single day in which I need 7 hours of screen-on time. It is highly likely that iOS 16 would be enough for my uses… but I don’t need iOS 16 and I like the battery life and the performance. So I keep it there.

One of the main reasons I wanted to buy the Air 5 is because battery life dropped from 14 hours on iOS 9 to 10.5 hours on iOS 12 on my favourite iPad ever, the 9.7-inch iPad Pro. Is 10 hours not enough? Nope, it is. But I knew it wasn’t as good it should be. So I didn’t like that part as much anymore. It might be a little odd, I acknowledge it. But I like iOS devices, otherwise I wouldn’t be on this forum. So I bought the Air 5. Now we are cool. It gets me like 23 hours of screen-on time. I don’t want iPadOS 16, because it might drop that to 20 hours. Or 18. And I don’t want 20. I don‘t want 18. I want 23. Not a second less. 23. Always. Furthermore, performance, unlike what I thought would happen before being forced to update my 9.7-inch iPad Pro, is perfect. So there’s no reason there. Also, another very important reason is that I wanted the full-screen design. I love it now that I have it, and it’s perfect. But my main annoyance with the 9.7-inch iPad Pro was a battery life I didn’t even need. But like I said, I like it this way. I like it when it works properly. My Air 5 is perfect on iPadOS 15. Performance and battery life-wise, and the screen is amazing. So I will leave it there.
I will say, however, that in spite of it being forced to iOS 12 and in spite of the battery life drop, my 9.7-inch iPad Pro is still my favourite iPad ever. Even if it isn’t perfect. It would be perfect on iOS 9, like it was before Apple forced me to update it. But it’s okay, you can’t have everything.

Battery health is irrelevant to me, because it doesn’t impact battery life. I don’t follow any preservation techniques, I charge it when I want it, to what I want. 100%, let it drop to 0%, I don’t care. As long as actual battery life is okay, I’m fine with it. My 6s is at 63% health. And it is great.