iPhone and Cell Phone Market Dynamics

[ictiosapiens]

Because you don't get it for free. You instead are given a crippled version, that cost the operator the same amount of money (if not more, given the work needed in development to cripple it) as if it wasn't crippled, which the operator must claw back some somewhere.

Where do you think they get it? Government grants? The toothfairy? From special trees with money as leaves?

The two models are:

1. You get your phone for no money up front. The operator rolls the cost of the phone into the prices it charges. It also has to deal with the risk people will not use their service long enough to cover the costs, so the phones are crippled, and the customers are forced to sign absurdly long contracts. (THREE YEARS in some cases. THREE! What the hell are people thinking?) The available phones are limited to those the operator is willing to subsidize. Other phones are harder and more expensive to get, and those who buy them still end up paying for the subsidies given to others.

2. You pay full price for your phone. You get the phone. The actual phone. The phone as envisaged by its designer. You sign on to a mobile operator. The mobile operator has no compelling reason to force you to sign a long contract. The mobile operator does not have artificially high prices that reflect the fact it's having to pay you for phones. You have a choice of every phone ever made compatible with your network.

Those are the choices. Quite honestly, I'd rather the operators abolish "subsidies" and offer outright loans (they run credit checks on you anyway.) You'll get more choices, cheaper phone services, and better phones as a result. There is no downside.

Not true, My vodafone Nokia N90 came Nokia boxed unlocked to all networks, so did my SE T610, and a couple of others. The only one that actually came locked and "crippled"(just a couple of vodafone themes) was my qtec 910, which I unlocked with a code I bought from some guy on ebay. And I think the networks are bound by law to unlock our phone after some time. I know Voda does it for £15 or so.

About the monthly rental paying for the phone. Calls made on phones on contracts, are nearly 50-60% cheaper than they are on pre-pay, so I don't know where I'd be loosing money. I mean, honestly unless you actually own a a network, it couldn't be any cheaper. And now with 3G, some networks are offering unlimited internet for £5 a month, and the phones are coming with skype installed, so there you go, even cheaper. And Of course my phone is not totally free, but is far cheaper than having to buy any phone that is over £100 and a mothly fee of over £25 for a year or 18 months. In the UK they aren't tying us up for 2 years yet.

Besides, who do you think is going to get the phones cheaper, the customer buying 1, maybe 3 phones every 10 years, ot a network buying 1 phone for each potential customer every year and passing that saving on to you(because they want you to stay with them) and at least hear in Britain, the longest contract I'm yet to see is 18 months like I mentioned earlier.

And the operator IS compelled to sign you for a long period regardless of they having bought you a phone or not. Even if you join a Gym you are tied up in a contract. They want some reassurances before spending any admin costs. Hell, the only reason I've stayed with my network for nearly 5 years is for the free phone I get avey year and the decent roaming they have.

 

[pistolero]

That sounds like the kind of thing which was said about the personal computer, the automobile and the television.

It's not the same. The mobile carriers own the exclusive use of their networks, while GM, Ford etc never owned the roads.

 

[ictiosapiens]

That sounds like the kind of thing which was said about the personal computer, the automobile and the television.

Yeah, yeah, apple are pioneers we get it. Let's hope they bring something new to the table, but I'm pretty sure I'm not willing to pay more for something I've been getting for free or nearly free for the last 8 years... And by the way it sounds and apple's record, I don't see how we would win. And remember, this is not a computer that can have a dramatically different OS which drives people to it, this is a PHONE for god's sake. How revolutionary can a phone be??? I hope I'm proven wrong...

 

[stcanard]

Shouldn't it be the job of the antitrust authorities to mandate the phone companies to allow the transfer of a phone number from one provider to another?

You would think, wouldn't you?

So far they are doing a successful job of stonewalling on the "its too hard, we need many years" tactic, and the CRTC is completely clueless with anything to do with technology. So we wait.

Rogers sells SIM cards. I bought a Cingular-branded, but unlocked, Moto V3 on eBay and took it to a Rogers video store and I was able to buy a SIM card, insert it, and activate it, before leaving the store. The SIM card cost me $35. They didn't seem to be confused as to what to do. It was also the first V3 that they saw. Rogers got their V3s about 3 months later.

Okay, then I am completely wrong. Apparently this is more widespread than I thought (I'm probably still carrying horrifying memories from my CDMA experience)

I still stand by the idea that this will take a lot of planning / education by Apple in order to avoid looking too expensive and too complicated -- especially since Apple has a reputation for being expensive, deserved or not.

 

[JonMan]

The iphone will NEVER happen. Mark this post!

 

[pistolero]

Yeah, yeah, apple are pioneers we get it. Let's home they bring something new to the table, but I'm pretty sure I'm not willing to pay more for something I've been getting for free or nearly free for the last 8 years..

Exactly. which is why this would be more like a regular ipod with phone capabilities. This is not meant to be a cheap or "free" phone with a 2 year contract. that would kill the Ipod brand almost inmediately.

 

[iJawn108]

there is so much talk of something that may or may not exist. which is fantastic.
I currently done own a cell but have been looking. I have $1000 kicking around with apples name on it, now all they have to do is release the iphone and leopard and whatever else i like and it's there.

 

[Surreal]

to those who say no one sells naked sim cards in the US;

they do. they just package a free phone with it. i have my "free" phone in a closet.

 

[matticus008]

I have never seen a pre-paid minutes sim card for cell service offered for sale. I am not saying that it doesn't exist elsewhere but I haven't experienced this in my area.

Any Cingular or T-Mobile store will sell you a prepaid SIM card if you ask for one. Refill cards can be purchased at supermarkets, Target, drug stores, Best Buy-type places, or online. I have done this several times when I lived abroad and had to return to the US for a few weeks at a time, or when I wanted a local number.

Since unlocked phones don't exist, nobody sells "just" a sim card, since there aren't any phones that can use it.

Well first, there are plenty of unlocked phones available from online vendors, and occasionally in stores. Further, T-Mobile and a number of other providers will unlock your phone if you ask them to do so. As for prepaid services, it's pretty trivial to get a SIM card and not have to buy a phone every time, even in Canada (but don't go to Rogers, because they'll go behind your back and enter you into a contract and then demand late fees and a massive cancellation fee for their own screwup).

I don't see how the phone could be so superior that it would make people choose it over a contract that will guarrantee you a new free phone every 12 or 18 months [...] Three are offering all this things with a subsidised phone and a crap load of minutes for les than £20 pounds...

Not in the US, they're not. When the RAZR came out, hundreds of thousands of people paid $299 for a locked one on top of the standard plan rates.

How many people are dying to get out of their contracts? Well, Apple can say "come to us, and we'll get you out with no or reduced penalty".

Not in a million years. With cancellation fees being $200+, there is just about zero chance of Apple buying anyone out of anything. As long as the iPhone is sold unlocked, you can just take your old SIM card and use the iPhone with your existing service until the contract's up, at which time you can switch to the Apple MVNO or whatever they end up offering.

 

[DeepIn2U]

Arn presented a VERY IMPORTANT part of the equation, and its NOTHING new from what manufacturers already deal with.

I think you miss the point that its not even an option in the U.S for most people.

Where are you going to buy the service from? So I buy a phone and go to Verizon... but wait, they don't offer SIM cards/GSM network.
arn

This major situation GSM SIM card device switching to a CDMA based device. BE VERY careful. Telus Mobility with their MIKE network (the CHIRP CHIRP phones) along with Sprint/Nextel phones BOTH have newer models that USE SIM cards but NOT in the same way as GSM networks do. I'll explain....

In Europe there is a HUGE market for SIM cards for purposes of security codes for buildings, rooms etc. There are ways around security or GSM network cloning - just watch The Bourne Supremacy (or follow the links at the bottom of my post, yes i've researched like mad and I've had access to BOTH Rogers' Nokia switch & Tmobile's Nokia switch (iHLRs ).

Now Number portability was supposed to solve the issue of having a phone number and going to ANY provider you like, however going from say Tmobile/Cingular/West to say Nextel/Sprint/Verizon/Boost then you also had to purchase a new phone. BUT at least you could use your Nextel phone on say Verizon ( I think) just give them the phones ESN #. However here in Canada the CRTC (stupid idiots that limit progression & competition because they think consumers are ID10's) has allowed CDMA carriers Telus & Bell NOT to accept one anothers CDMA ESN #'s of either cellphones. When we finally have # Portability in the next 3 months; I doubt that will change.

Stcanard. YES Fido & Rogers sell naked cards. You should know better. Rogers didnt the first year they went to GSM back in Nov 1, 2001 (they had a huge network problem that day and halted stores from sales nationwide and went full out 24hrs later ) However, they did but it cost you $150 when Fido only and STILL only charges $25. Rogers sales reps that are members on HowardForums site will sell you for $10. Funny now how things change.

Okay, then I am wrong -- but I[m pretty sure here, Rogers, Telus, Bell, Virgin (only prepaid) don't sell naked cards.

Heck, I'd just be happy with being able to take my phone number with me when I switch cellular providers!

Just wait for another 3 months.... March 14, 2007 to be exact check it out here ... http://www.shoprogers.com/lnp/lnp_faq.asp

The Bourne Supremacy info.

SIM cards can be used for such things as:
* Health Insurance Cards
* PC Protection
* Gift Certificates
* ID Cards
* Reading most cellphone SIM cards
http://www.gementerprises.com/chipdrive.htm

Now Remember the worlds LARGEST wireless communications technology is GSM by coverage area for roaming or in users in #'s.

Cloning which is very limited information (hence the stop for my digging):
http://nokiafree.org/forums/f33/s
http://www.popularshareware.com/Smart-Card-ToolSet-PRO-screenshot-23743.html

Does these look familiar or simular?
http://www.txsystems.com/chipdrive.html

Choice network technology for iPhone ....

GSM/GPRS/EDGE/3G > economies of scale my friends.

 

[iMacZealot]

I honestly don't think the average American knows anything about CDMA, GSM, SIM cards, or phone locks. Due to their head start in the cellular industry, I think Eurasians are more familiar with the general idea of SIMs and unlocked phones. I've looked at a lot of European carrier sites, and most, if not all, had the ability to buy a SIM card off their website. The only ways you can get a SIM only from Cingular or T-Mobile are through their Customer Care departments and retail stores. They are not sold through their websites. As for Sprint and Verizon, well, if it doesn't have eight strategically placed self logos on the phone and an interface tuned to their beat, they won't activate it.

A lot of Americans still think that the people who make the iPod are called "iPod." How the hell do you expect the average American to know what CDMA and GSM are? Do you expect an average American to be able to tell you what a SIM card is? I also think that most Americans think that the only way to buy a phone is through their carrier, and even there, they think that their carrier actually made their phone or that "Nokia" or "Motorola" are actually carriers, too.

Also, I'm going to admit that Americans are cheap. We often get hung up on the piece of paper tied to the product instead of the product itself. Do you think Americans will buy a $500 iPhone? The most popular phone in America is the RAZR, which can often be found for less than a goose egg. People love it not only because the people at the Motorola advertising department are economical geniuses, but also because carriers are practically giving them away. And while the iPhone will definitely catch the eye of the average American consumer, he/she will run when he/she sees the big, unlocked pricetag. Why? Not just because of the price, but Americans won't and don't take the time to understand the concept of unlocking. So, unless if Apple can market it really well (Perhaps to the tune of "a phone and iPod in one") and get the concept of unlocked phones out to Americans, it will either fail or will have to start being subsidised by carriers because Americans want something that is cheap and easy to understand. And that is the American consumer way. God bless America!

 

[timon]

If Apple is really on the ball the phone will be a world phone with both GCM and CDMA. There are already phones that do this and Verizon has them so I see no reason why Apple can't use that chip set in their phone. This would allow them to cover everything less iDen, NextTel, which is not used much by the consumer anyway. This and unlocked phones would give Apple access to 95% of the phone market.

I have used Verizon for the last 3-1/2 years. I signed up for a 2 year contract initially so I am now on a month to month basis. I love the fact that I could leave them at any minute but my phone is old, getting crappy and I would really like a new one. (But don't want to sign up for two more years).

I don't mind Verizon's coverage which for me is quite good. I travel across the country on business and never have any problems. But they may be the worst at crippling phones, offering a limited and crappy selection, etc.

While I don't hold any hope that Apple's new phone would work with Verizon, I have been waiting for it to come out to see the hardware and their business plan/solution.

Unlocking phones I think will lower the carrier costs and potentially make it easier to flip. This is a tricky industry and I do have confidence that Apple will shake it up and make some changes. Any change is good in my mind. It can't possibly get any worse or more frustrating than it already is.

 

[koobcamuk]

This concept, however, is less familiar in the U.S. and could introduce some confusion to the consumers.

haha. How true. Oh dear. C'mon Apple - lead the way for the US of A!

 

[koobcamuk]

I honestly don't think the average American knows anything about CDMA, GSM, SIM cards, or phone locks. Due to their head start in the cellular industry, I think Eurasians are more familiar with the general idea of SIMs and unlocked phones. I've looked at a lot of European carrier sites, and most, if not all, had the ability to buy a SIM card off their website. The only ways you can get a SIM only from Cingular or T-Mobile are through their Customer Care departments and retail stores. They are not sold through their websites. As for Sprint and Verizon, well, if it doesn't have eight strategically placed self logos on the phone and an interface tuned to their beat, they won't activate it.

A lot of Americans still think that the people who make the iPod are called "iPod." How the hell do you expect the average American to know what CDMA and GSM are? Do you expect an average American to be able to tell you what a SIM card is? I also think that most Americans think that the only way to buy a phone is through their carrier, and even there, they think that their carrier actually made their phone or that "Nokia" or "Motorola" are actually carriers, too.

Also, I'm going to admit that Americans are cheap. We often get hung up on the piece of paper tied to the product instead of the product itself. Do you think Americans will buy a $500 iPhone? The most popular phone in America is the RAZR, which can often be found for less than a goose egg. People love it not only because the people at the Motorola advertising department are economical geniuses, but also because carriers are practically giving them away. And while the iPhone will definitely catch the eye of the average American consumer, he/she will run when he/she sees the big, unlocked pricetag. Why? Not just because of the price, but Americans won't and don't take the time to understand the concept of unlocking. So, unless if Apple can market it really well (Perhaps to the tune of "a phone and iPod in one") and get the concept of unlocked phones out to Americans, it will either fail or will have to start being subsidised by carriers because Americans want something that is cheap and easy to understand. And that is the American consumer way. God bless America!

I love this post. So true. In Europe we usually have unbranded phone with unchanged software. We can walk into a shop and buy a new SIM (new number comes with it obviously) from £5 to £10 ($10 to $20). We can walk into a phone shop with $1000 and buy a new phone without a contract. People here are aware that the contract is for the SIM and the number not for the phone. People here know the difference between 3G and 2G and know that there is not a carrier called Nokia because they are the handset manufacturers.

 

[Chundles]

How I would manage my phone purchase here:

1. Buy phone.
2. Buy $2 SIM card from provider that offers best deal, probably a pre-paid plan.
3. We pay only for calls made here, we don't pay for calls received.
4. Choose what top up plan I want, whether I keep my call credit forever so that it can't expire or whether I want free provider-to-provider call or whether I want a certain number of free SMS messages with each top up.

That way even if the phone is a bit exxy I make my money back by not being tied into a contract and I pay only for the calls I make.

 

[nplima]

if every month I had a few hundred thousand unlocked GSM phones available, where in the USA would you guys like me to sell them?

 

[dnedved]

I think the whole difficulty of popping in a SIM is moot. Whether Apple partners with a US GSM carrier or not you can guarantee that:

1.) the store where you buy the phone will have someone to help you pop in a SIM
2.) the stores selling the SIMs will be able to help you put the SIM in your iPhone (they already do with every other brand of mobile!!!)

Even if they don't partner, Apple will definitely resell service or have someone in the store selling the service. They'll want you to leave the store with a functioning handset -- it will be a necessity to make the sale!

It may be that most people in the US don't typically buy their phones and SIMs separately, but plenty of people already do. When I was living in the US I did starting around 6 years ago. Bought a tri-band phone on Ebay and bought a SIM from Cingular. Go to ebay and look at the US market for unlocked GSM phones.

Sure the people in the Cingular store were idiots and made lots of mistakes, but they didn't freak out when I came into the store with my own phone and asked for service. In fact I had a pretty hot phone at the time and a couple of the geekier ones walked over to play with it and chat about it. They may be dumb as rocks, but they do their job day-in and day-out, so they get at least a little bit capable at it. It's not rocket science by a long shot!

 

[matticus008]

In Europe there is a HUGE market for SIM cards for purposes of security codes for buildings, rooms etc. There are ways around security or GSM network cloning - just watch The Bourne Supremacy (or follow the links at the bottom of my post, yes i've researched like mad and I've had access to BOTH Rogers' Nokia switch & Tmobile's Nokia switch (iHLRs ).

There's a huge market for smart cards worldwide, actually. SIM cards aren't used for anything other than cell phones, though (except optionally in Finland). Just about any reusable key can be reproduced (RFID, key fobs, magnetic strips, smart cards, physical keys) given the right tools. This is nothing new and unlikely to change.

 

[johnnyjibbs]

I'm sure Apple doesn't want to be tied in to any particular network and may go it alone, selling the all-in-one package of OS, service provider and hardware-maker all in one, just like they do with the Macs.

The phone will be stylish and good, but probably have certain technology that is old and pay you a premium for it, maybe a cut-down version of iTunes (although I'm not sure where the iPod fits in with that) and iPhoto and of course good syncing and connectivity options with a Mac. But I bet it will cost an absolute fortune.

Since I live in Europe, and given that the mobile phone market dynamics are complicated and vary from region to region, I expect any Apple iPhone to be a US-only service for a good amount of time first, so I'm not getting any hopes up.

 

[Roller]

While Apple could sell unlocked phones and then make you go to a cell carrier to buy service, it would be uncharacteristic of the way Steve Jobs approaches things. Steve's mantra is seamless integration... that's why the ITMS exists. With cell phones, he's going to want you to be able to walk out of the Apple store with a fully functional device in hand, whether it's by partnering with an existing carrier or acting as an MVNO.

Why would anyone go for this? Not the hardware alone - although Apple could probably come up with a better industrial design, the key's going to be the software, especially the way it integrates with OS X.

 

[pistolero]

While Apple could sell unlocked phones and then make you go to a cell carrier to buy service, it would be uncharacteristic of the way Steve Jobs approaches things. Steve's mantra is seamless integration... that's why the ITMS exists. With cell phones, he's going to want you to be able to walk out of the Apple store with a fully functional device in hand, whether it's by partnering with an existing carrier or acting as an MVNO.

I agree. I just don't see the point on selling an ipod phone at the store and then telling you to go to Cingular or Tmobile store to get a plan to use it and then figure out how to input all the carrier settings yourself. however, MVNO aren't very profitable at the moment; for example Ampd and Helio are bleeding money.

 

[puuukeey]

I know from a reliable source that the iphone:


• joins of "teh social"
• amazing development tools
• has eyballs that follow your mouse around the screen
• dynamic advertizing improving your recognizablitiy
• it's a swiss army knife of computer tools
• fingerprint key fobs, magnetic strips, smart cards, physical keys
• its got a built in calendar
• known bugs include "doesn't do anything" "power cable sucks ass and costs 80 bucks"
• its your savior in a bottle with bad behavior on the throttle
• come one come all its the iphone with a GPS uplink that will have your jaw hit the floor
• It will have a trash can AND a recycling bin
• OLED LCD Plasma ambilight display
• comes in iphone, iphone XL, iphone GS and iPhone 3000
• keeps you warm on lonely nights
• multi touch single touch RF IR technology
• RFID tags to track your every movement and when you have bowel movements
• lowers prices so YOU the consumer have a higher standard of living
• small form factor
• substantial feel
• its a swan in teacup, drives camels through needles
• new noise reduction unit keeps you from hearing noise
• IONIC!
• powers via usb, car charger, wall wart 110 and 220 and A 440
• not just a phone. its a solution and a revaluation
• new 2 in one technology uses shampoo and conditioner
• ass warmers come standard with fold out display
• patented AND patent pending
• will drive stock prices through the roof
• integrates with USB poll dancer and fondu pot
• cooled by vegetable oil
• can be used as a wii controller via PS3 adapter
• perfect for dating
• built in holodeck
• open source security features
• automatically emails you fark updates
• recognizes morse code and swahili
• free harmonic fingerprint recognition mobilization engine
• lengthens your commute in seconds
• noise cancelation
• runs on love
• rechargeable indestructible exploding lithium ion photon battery
• built in SCSI zip DAT minidisc and floppy drive
• liquid cooled
• tamagotchi jenga and sodoku
• its pin compatible with amd ppc motorola and GSM phones
• stereoscopic goggles
• Java Basic C++ Logo smalltalk and TCP/IP/I really gotta pee.
• blood tests with out painful pin pricks
• support vonage and skype
• 5 blade action
• runs on pure corn (not biodiesil, just plain corn)
• recieves faxes
• more than just a name
• direct integration with iTV
• force feeds starving babies in africa metal shavings
• prevents proliferation treaties
• brews the perfect cappuccino
• multitouch 3d oled display with 40,000 songs
• hdmi port which plugs into your face!!!!!!
• fight off terr'ists.
• USB PLIAR WIRE
• fios dsl cable compatible
• more energy efficient, consumer friendly and lowers the bottom line
• built in mic pre amps
• teledildonics
• future proof
• anti life and anti choice
• so zen that it's not there
• comes in every color and a (RED) version
• causes and prevents Cancer, Parkinson's and birth defects
• ask your doctor if iPhone is right for you
• ichat av
• full of zagat resteraunt reviews
• signs checks with laser etching
• iTunes built in to the purpose built hardware
• surfs the web with firefox and QT
• reminds you to take your pills
• better syncing with ical, iLife, Ideath, and iWork, and iSocialSecurity!
• voice control, voice synthesis, brail and esperanto
• eats kitties
• automatically downloads the latest harry potter and tiny nibbles
• integrated second life.
• complete support you tube enabled footwear!!!!
• syncs your ical with the latest presidential scandals
• SDIF, WAVE,SDII,AIFF,RAW, mp1, mp2 mp3 mp4, ogg vorbis and throgs neck, 1300 kbps per second!!!!evendy levin!
• going to play nintendo DS games with the multitouch 3d display and
• compatibility with windows, 3d studio max and built in google
• come in white plastic, black and red Utube version and special all black marilyn manson version fully loaded with nietze audio books
• the second version will be in the platinum and titanium.
• does dialup
• talking moose
* its going to expand the apple brand into the toaster territory
• it will never be released in france
• HAHA NEWTONS!!!!
• eats palm treos and has little gadget sex with side kicks
• plugs straight into your new icar,VW beetle, PT cruiser, and dodge neon.... Hi.
• expandable, future proof and retractable
• the batteries have gun powder in them
• it's got a virtual jeff raskin on it.
• taser and pepper spray
• 96 kHz 24bit with thousands of colors.
• backward sideways and forward compatible
• its all offloaded on to the graphics card.
• act now and get a free pass to the front of the genius bar line
• incompatible with verizon
• blows moores law out of the water
• HD DVD BluRay CD and 8track compatible
• gets its time from an international universal atomic clock server in cupertino HQ
• mapquest on star and RSS feeds and pod/vid/textcasts
• screen saver module with flying toasters.
• exclusively on verizon network
• boss mode
• anti virus software so hackers dont steal you "home made" pornos
• the DRM code adds nin terabytes to the phone totaling 9 extra lbs
• it slices it dices and for god sake stop this fricken rumor


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If you are older than age 65, or have serious liver or kidney problems, your doctor may start you at iPhoneShuffle. If you are taking protease inhibitors, such as for the treatment of HIV, your doctor may recommend a 25-mg dose and may limit you to a maximum single dose of 25 mg of iPhone in a 48-hour period.

 

[mccldwll]

If Apple is really on the ball the phone will be a world phone with both GCM and CDMA. There are already phones that do this and Verizon has them so I see no reason why Apple can't use that chip set in their phone. This would allow them to cover everything less iDen, NextTel, which is not used much by the consumer anyway. This and unlocked phones would give Apple access to 95% of the phone market.

Something like this certainly would be the key, and why not. While this may not be what the quoted poster is referencing, it would be great to have a phone which picks up (or you select) the strongest signal from any given carrier (CDMA or GSM) for any given spot. When getting phone service, order the "buffet" not just a single entre. Have Apple contract with all major carriers for "bandwidth", and if one doesn't want to play ball (if they can legally refuse, that is), that carrier essentially gets locked out from iPhone (or customer can buy for $600, but only $15/month through the Apple Universal Network (the"AUN")), over 24 months for AUN customers. "Notice to Buyers: X Network does not participate in our network so if you need to use X, deal with them." Forget iTunes. Would anyone here care to have a phone that would just work anywhere any kind of cell signal is available? Who in his right mind would start out to create the kind of cell system we now have in the US? Think it calls for simplifying?

 

[WilliamLondon]

Since I live in Europe, and given that the mobile phone market dynamics are complicated and vary from region to region, I expect any Apple iPhone to be a US-only service for a good amount of time first, so I'm not getting any hopes up.

I'm in the UK and agree with you - would be a shame, especially if they go the non-GSM, non SIM route. We'll not be able to get one for quite awhile if that's the case - I mean, how long was it before they launched ITMS in the UK?? And my 1 year contract with O2 is up in Jan. :-(

 

[vmardian]

Something like this certainly would be the key, and why not.

Because it would add to the cost, size, weight, and complexity, for not much benefit considering most networks are GSM.