is anyone else disappointed in the "speed bumps"?

[ninjachild]

So the latest news that we are hearing is the the powerbooks will top out at 1 Ghz.

and that the ibook update (if there is one) will be a 13" 800 mhz powerpc G3.

does anyone else find this disappointing.

i mean im all for new powerbooks and upgrades of older systems,

but a measly 200 Mhz speed bump in a laptop that is more than a year old.

i just find this disappointing.

I mean apple has now come out with a pretty revolutionary software system that takes advantage of powerful processors to help run your power intensive applications, but without the power behind it what good is it?

all this in a laptop that will still probably top out at what $3500?

i mean i just feel that with the lagging speeds of the G4 it will be harder and harder to compete with X86 units when they at least double in the same amount of time.

add in the fact that we probably won't even see the "G5" until what 9 months at the very very earliest?

okay im just ranting now, but thoughts?

 

[TheFink]

Re: is anyone else disappointed in the "speed bumps"?

Originally posted by ninjachild
So the latest news that we are hearing is the the powerbooks will top out at 1 Ghz.

and that the ibook update (if there is one) will be a 13" 800 mhz powerpc G3.

does anyone else find this disappointing.

i mean im all for new powerbooks and upgrades of older systems,

but a measly 200 Mhz speed bump in a laptop that is more than a year old.

i just find this disappointing.

I mean apple has now come out with a pretty revolutionary software system that takes advantage of powerful processors to help run your power intensive applications, but without the power behind it what good is it?

all this in a laptop that will still probably top out at what $3500?

i mean i just feel that with the lagging speeds of the G4 it will be harder and harder to compete with X86 units when they at least double in the same amount of time.

add in the fact that we probably won't even see the "G5" until what 9 months at the very very earliest?

okay im just ranting now, but thoughts?

Someone crying about apple's slow cpu's? Wow that's a first. THE NERVE!

 

[Falleron]

Apple is in a bind! They have faster IBM G3 Sahara chips they could use. However, they cant becasue Motorola is holding the Powerbook G4 speed bumps up. There is nothing Apple can do about it. I dont think the laptops are slow now, but, IBM has a lot more to give as apposed to Motorola.

 

[vixapphire]

i don't know anymore; i just bought and am awaiting delivery on a powerlogix 550M G4 upgrade to my 450 G3 B&W powermac, so i'm fitting to wait at least 1/2 year before i buy - used - a current-gen 667 or 800 (don't need the 1GHz anymore; not for that kind of wampum).

Apple's modest upgrade strategy and the uncertainty of whether a G4 is even worth it to shell out big dough for pending next year's almost certain release of the G5/whatev., I think for my purposes (audio), rather than buying the fastest CPU to do more native processing, I'm going to spend that money on a used set of Protools Mix+ cards and an i/o box and get the emagic TDM bridge software and forget I was ever even concerned with the "bleeding edge"...

Personally, I don't care whether Apple is "falling behind" or whatever; I don't work for the company, I don't own their shares, it doesn't matter. I like their products and I believe there is a big enough base of users and developers offering unique advantages on the Mac platform that it won't go bye-bye anytime soon (not to mention the company's excellent corporate management - who is also responsible for their modest upgrade strategy, at least in part, no doubt). If people stop buying their stuff, they'll be forced to go to the well of ideas and pull out another miracle. Maybe it'll even be in a cool then-retro color like bondi blue!

 

[gopher]

Re: is anyone else disappointed in the "speed bumps"?

Originally posted by ninjachild
So the latest news that we are hearing is the the powerbooks will top out at 1 Ghz.

and that the ibook update (if there is one) will be a 13" 800 mhz powerpc G3.

does anyone else find this disappointing.

i mean im all for new powerbooks and upgrades of older systems,

but a measly 200 Mhz speed bump in a laptop that is more than a year old.

i just find this disappointing.

I mean apple has now come out with a pretty revolutionary software system that takes advantage of powerful processors to help run your power intensive applications, but without the power behind it what good is it?

all this in a laptop that will still probably top out at what $3500?

i mean i just feel that with the lagging speeds of the G4 it will be harder and harder to compete with X86 units when they at least double in the same amount of time.

add in the fact that we probably won't even see the "G5" until what 9 months at the very very earliest?

okay im just ranting now, but thoughts?

200 Mhz is not what it is...the 800 Mhz model is only 7
months old.

Here are the release dates to refresh your memory

11/5/2002 ? 933 Mhz/ 1 Ghz - a 266/200 Mhz increase in 7 months
4/2002 667/ 800 Mhz - a 117/133 Mhz in 6 months
10/2001 550/667 Mhz - a 150/167 Mhz in 9 months
1/2001 400/500 Mhz
Not to mention 4/2002 model made the Level 3 cache more.

That is no 200 Mhz increase on a model OVER a year old. Let's get our facts straight!

Goodness...Apple's latest upgrade would be the biggest in so short a period of time.

 

[ninjachild]

Re: Re: is anyone else disappointed in the "speed bumps"?

Originally posted by gopher


200 Mhz is not what it is...the 800 Mhz model is only 7
months old.

Here are the release dates to refresh your memory

11/5/2002 ? 933 Mhz/ 1 Ghz - a 266/200 Mhz increase in 7 months
4/2002 667/ 800 Mhz - a 117/133 Mhz in 6 months
10/2001 550/667 Mhz - a 150/167 Mhz in 9 months
1/2001 400/500 Mhz
Not to mention 4/2002 model made the Level 3 cache more.

That is no 200 Mhz increase on a model OVER a year old. Let's get our facts straight!

Goodness...Apple's latest upgrade would be the biggest in so short a period of time.

i am so sorry. i didnt mean to get my facts messed up i hope that you can find it in your heart to forgive me.

i was more referring to the notebook itself being over a year old in its current look.

but whatever.

 

[gopher]

Certainly, I'd happily forgive anyone who promises to get their facts straight before they post. Thank you.

 

[Kethoticus]

Great sarcasm Ninjachild...

...and I agree with you. With Dell coming out with 2.2GHz laptops, I think $3,500 is an awful lot to charge for 1GHz, OS X or not. I don't feel like paying all that extra money JUST for the OS. I mean, so much for the cheaper price of OS X compared to XP.

 

[ninjachild]

Re: Great sarcasm Ninjachild...

Originally posted by Kethoticus
...and I agree with you. With Dell coming out with 2.2GHz laptops, I think $3,500 is an awful lot to charge for 1GHz, OS X or not. I don't feel like paying all that extra money JUST for the OS. I mean, so much for the cheaper price of OS X compared to XP.

that is more what i was trying to say,
i am not trying to argue apple's corporate strategy
or their rolling out of new hardware,

it's just that when you can go get a sony top of the line computer
(in notebook config) with the fastest mobile p4 and DVD recorder,
for the price of the LOWEST priced powerbook (not top of the line) its not exactly a great strategy to get people to switch.

the new ad campiagn should be

APPLE : you can pay more to do less.

and i know someone will jump in here with their cries of heresy and that im a PC zealot.

you would be wrong.

i have used both, both have strong points, and weak points

i actually like UNIX the best, and i think that OS X is a wondeful idea.

but unlike some people i can see both sides of the argument.

 

[iGav]

Re: Great sarcasm Ninjachild...

Originally posted by Kethoticus
...and I agree with you. With Dell coming out with 2.2GHz laptops, I think $3,500 is an awful lot to charge for 1GHz, OS X or not. I don't feel like paying all that extra money JUST for the OS. I mean, so much for the cheaper price of OS X compared to XP.

There's more to the mac than just OSX........

 

[gopher]

Re: Great sarcasm Ninjachild...

Originally posted by Kethoticus
...and I agree with you. With Dell coming out with 2.2GHz laptops, I think $3,500 is an awful lot to charge for 1GHz, OS X or not. I don't feel like paying all that extra money JUST for the OS. I mean, so much for the cheaper price of OS X compared to XP.

Note, those 1 Ghz laptops are really more like 3 Ghz laptops. Where speed counts in using Photoshop and Canvas, you get that kind of speed. Of course you will only see internet speed increases if you use broadband. And Explorer is actually the slowest browser for my Mac. I use Mozilla and Chimera more often than not and sometimes iCab and Omniweb sprinkled in. There is almost no reason to use Explorer anymore.

 

[Sun Baked]

What are the actual battery life comparisons between the 1 & 3GHz machines?

 

[springscansing]

Originally posted by vixapphire
i don't know anymore; i just bought and am awaiting delivery on a powerlogix 550M G4 upgrade to my 450 G3 B&W powermac, so i'm fitting to wait at least 1/2 year before i buy - used - a current-gen 667 or 800 (don't need the 1GHz anymore; not for that kind of wampum).

Apple's modest upgrade strategy and the uncertainty of whether a G4 is even worth it to shell out big dough for pending next year's almost certain release of the G5/whatev., I think for my purposes (audio), rather than buying the fastest CPU to do more native processing, I'm going to spend that money on a used set of Protools Mix+ cards and an i/o box and get the emagic TDM bridge software and forget I was ever even concerned with the "bleeding edge"...

Personally, I don't care whether Apple is "falling behind" or whatever; I don't work for the company, I don't own their shares, it doesn't matter. I like their products and I believe there is a big enough base of users and developers offering unique advantages on the Mac platform that it won't go bye-bye anytime soon (not to mention the company's excellent corporate management - who is also responsible for their modest upgrade strategy, at least in part, no doubt). If people stop buying their stuff, they'll be forced to go to the well of ideas and pull out another miracle. Maybe it'll even be in a cool then-retro color like bondi blue!

I donno... I personally do gobs of audio work, and I must say a dual 867 system is a great value and can do a heck of a lot of natice processing. I personally love native processing, since I work primarily with Reaktor, Cubase, and Reason.

If you have the money, I'd look into a dual 867 before I went protools, but that's just my opinion. It all depends what you're doing basically.

 

[Inhale420]

Re: Re: Great sarcasm Ninjachild...

Originally posted by iGAV


There's more to the mac than just OSX........

yes, explain to us what macs can do 'better' than a wintel pc to make up for their ridiculous prices. mention anything about web design/development and i'll make you look like a fool.

 

[TheFink]

Re: Re: Re: Great sarcasm Ninjachild...

Originally posted by Inhale420


yes, explain to us what macs can do 'better' than a wintel pc to make up for their ridiculous prices. mention anything about web design/development and i'll make you look like a fool.

Agreed.

 

[mr evil brkfast]

The present speed bumps are still better than when Apple was stuck at 500mhz for 18 months with the G4.

IF it was up to motorolla we would never have even had the DDR hack in the xserve and G4 mirror doors.

 

[ddtlm]

Kethoticus:

...and I agree with you. With Dell coming out with 2.2GHz laptops...

What do you mean "coming out with?" I've had my 2.2ghz Dell laptop since September 26th. I don't forsee a PBook that I would even think about buying until the 130nm G4's are out, hopefully within the first part of 2003.

 

[solvs]

Re: Great sarcasm Ninjachild...

Originally posted by Kethoticus
...and I agree with you. With Dell coming out with 2.2GHz laptops, I think $3,500 is an awful lot to charge for 1GHz, OS X or not. I don't feel like paying all that extra money JUST for the OS. I mean, so much for the cheaper price of OS X compared to XP.

It's too bad they don't have a 1 GHz G3 iBook with 133+ FSB, 512 MB+ PC133 RAM, 32 MB video RAM, 40 GB+ 5400 RPM drive, 13" widescreen display in current small (and relatively light) enclosure, etc. The best part would be the battery life, and the "low" price for what you get. Speed be darned, that I would buy in a heart beat.

PS, off topic (not that that ever happens here) thanks for changing you sig Kethoticus. I like the new one.

 

[vixapphire]

Originally posted by springscansing


I donno... I personally do gobs of audio work, and I must say a dual 867 system is a great value and can do a heck of a lot of natice processing. I personally love native processing, since I work primarily with Reaktor, Cubase, and Reason.

If you have the money, I'd look into a dual 867 before I went protools, but that's just my opinion. It all depends what you're doing basically.

I'm right there with you all the way; in fact, I was vacillating between buying in at the top for the longest life before upgrading (you know, 5 years from now or whatever) or going with a used machine, like even a 733 or something like that until the next-gen CPU's come out. Certainly, the dual 867 you bought is the price/performance value of the entire G3/G4 odyssey, but I'm just a guy who has a matching bondi blue monitor and bondi QPS 8x CD-writer (the overall visual effect of my rig, complemented by a bright yellow Waldorf Q (and formerly also a Nord Lead 2 (sold)) and the Logic Control / xt modules is quite a delight...). If I wanted to get into one of these new, wonderful machines like yours, I'd have to factor in spending at least 2k additional to buy a cinema display 22 (I'll admit my vanity - appearance of the setup does matter to me to some extent), and that would make the upgrade a little rich, especially in light of the uncertainty regarding the life left in the G4 CPU.

I was mixing at my brother's joint the other night on protools; the power and the better sound (noticeably improved over VST, which I personally don't find all that awful to begin with) and the ability to use a dinosaur like my computer and still get all that DSP power (including a few virus synthesizers built-in) is pretty compelling. Money-wise, it's probably just about a toss-up, so the sound tips the scale for me.

But in no way should you mistake my views as knocking your purchase; I think you've got a great system and I only recently got off the fence, where I was very close to following in your footsteps myself!

cheers,
vixapphire

 

[DakotaGuy]

Re: Re: Great sarcasm Ninjachild...

Originally posted by solvs


It's too bad they don't have a 1 GHz G3 iBook with 133+ FSB, 512 MB+ PC133 RAM, 32 MB video RAM, 40 GB+ 5400 RPM drive, 13" widescreen display in current small (and relatively light) enclosure, etc. The best part would be the battery life, and the "low" price for what you get. Speed be darned, that I would buy in a heart beat.

PS, off topic (not that that ever happens here) thanks for changing you sig Kethoticus. I like the new one.

That all sounds wonderful, but I am afraid that an iBook configured like that would hurt Ti Book sales. Apple knows this and will always keep the iBook a step behind, because they can make more profit on selling the Ti Book then the iBook. It is sad however because an iBook configured like that with it's current price tag would be a VERY HOT item, especially for switchers.

 

[scem0]

I am definitely dissapointed in the speed bumps. If you can even call them that. I guess that isn't apple's fault though. Stupid motorola.

 

[gopher]

Well there are multiple parties to blame...the gamers who are so eager to get the last frame per second in speed they forget that they can't really see that many frames per second, and for that matter not demanding more processing speed and instead trying to demand more video processing speed. The programmers who are too reluctant to add altivec code to their programs when it would improve the speed of their software, and instead listen to the gamers and try to program for the favorite graphic cards used by gamers.

See if games were to use the CPU instead of the videocard and use Altivec anyone with G4s could take advantage of the higher speed Macs. As it is now, many games require specific graphic cards to even be optimized. With dozens of PCI graphic cards out there, can you imagine the headache programmers are going through to try and write API code for each potential graphics card out there? Why not just demand more Altivec based programming? Now that both the eMac and Flat Panel iMac offer Altivec, you can have your perfect Mac game machine in an $899 refurbished eMac.

You have 128 bit processing via vector processing o n the CPU...demand that your programmers program for it. It isn't like it can't be done. If Genentech can do Blast 5 times faster on a Mac than any PC, you can get your game 5 times faster if you just write enough angry letters to the programmers to get their act together. The G4s are powerful enough. You just aren't asking for power where it is already available.

 

[Telomar]

Re: Great sarcasm Ninjachild...

Originally posted by Kethoticus
...and I agree with you. With Dell coming out with 2.2GHz laptops, I think $3,500 is an awful lot to charge for 1GHz, OS X or not.

*groans* When are people going to stop using GHz as their performance metric it just isn't accurate.

Keep in mind Intel is planning to replace the PIVs in the upper end of the mobile line with a chip that will only clock in the mid-1GHz range at launch. Furthermore the high speeds of the PIV-M chip can't be sustained as well as the G4 could sustain its 1GHz.

As far as mobile computing goes I would take an embedded chip like the G4 any day of the week.

 

[springscansing]

Re: Re: Great sarcasm Ninjachild...

Originally posted by gopher


Note, those 1 Ghz laptops are really more like 3 Ghz laptops. Where speed counts in using Photoshop and Canvas, you get that kind of speed. Of course you will only see internet speed increases if you use broadband. And Explorer is actually the slowest browser for my Mac. I use Mozilla and Chimera more often than not and sometimes iCab and Omniweb sprinkled in. There is almost no reason to use Explorer anymore.

They're not more like 3ghz laptops.. maybe 1.5.. that's it. Unless you're using photoshop, which is G4 optimized beyond belief.

And IE is a heck of a lot FASTER than Mozilla. I donno what's all this obsession about browsers anyway... the internet is still the same.

 

[springscansing]

Originally posted by vixapphire


I'm right there with you all the way; in fact, I was vacillating between buying in at the top for the longest life before upgrading (you know, 5 years from now or whatever) or going with a used machine, like even a 733 or something like that until the next-gen CPU's come out. Certainly, the dual 867 you bought is the price/performance value of the entire G3/G4 odyssey, but I'm just a guy who has a matching bondi blue monitor and bondi QPS 8x CD-writer (the overall visual effect of my rig, complemented by a bright yellow Waldorf Q (and formerly also a Nord Lead 2 (sold)) and the Logic Control / xt modules is quite a delight...). If I wanted to get into one of these new, wonderful machines like yours, I'd have to factor in spending at least 2k additional to buy a cinema display 22 (I'll admit my vanity - appearance of the setup does matter to me to some extent), and that would make the upgrade a little rich, especially in light of the uncertainty regarding the life left in the G4 CPU.

Common man.. skip the apple monitor. I got a 21" flatscreen CRT sony... top of the line, for $549 used. And that was 2 years ago. It's still one of the best monitors made. I donno how you could buy the 867 + cinema considering that would get you the 1.25 and a sony, hehe.

What I did was, I sold my dual 450 on ebay for 1200 and bought a new dual 867. For cheaper than an upgrade card alone, I got a whole new computer. I find the best way to keep up with technology is buy the cheapest of the most expensive line (in this case the dual 867) then sell it and buy a new one every year. Makes infintely more sense than upgrading an old machine (at least it my case it did). For a 500 dollar difference (I got the education price) I got a whole new machine, DDR ram, bigger HD, radeon card, etc etc etc.

It's a shifty system, but it works for me.