Is my SE able to write 1.4MB disks?

[CYB3RBYTE]

Hi, I recently bought this Mac SE with the intent of it being one of the last SE's introduced, with what I understand is the ability to write 1.4mb high density disks. I have an earlier SE with an 800k drive that I've restored, but I'm tired of using 800k disks as I don't have a bridge Mac at the moment.

However, upon receiving this and cleaning the floppy drive, it won't recognize 1.4mb disks properly. I was under the assumption that unless it said 800k floppy on the back of the machine, it was a later model capable of writing and reading high density floppies. Mine just says "SE" on the back and front.

Here are shots of the motherboard internally, I know you need a special rom and a SWIM to write 1.4mb disks.

 

[MacTech68]

Sadly, no.

Your ROM and IWM are SE 800k setup

Original (800K FD) ICs are:

342-0352-A HI ROM
342-0353-A LO ROM
344-0043-A IWM

Upgraded (1.44MB FD):

342-0701 HI ROM
342-0702 LO ROM
344-0062-01 SWM

So obviously, you should be wondering if the Floppy drive itself is 800K.

800K drive should be marked as F-51W(-xx)

1.44MB drive should be marked as MP-F75W(-XXX)

The logic board seems to be mid to late March 1989. The original MacSE (800K) was sold until August 1989, when the SE FDHD was introduced. So it seems it fits into the 800K "era".

Yes, there were upgrade kits available (for a fee) to be installed by an 'Apple Authorized Service Center', for all 4 parts (drive, 2x ROMs & IWM)

The SE FDHD was terminated in October 1990.

What is the machine's Serial number on the rear left ?

 

[CYB3RBYTE]

So, you were spot on, my machine was a M5011, which is a regular SE, so it must have been the last “iteration” of the regular SE before the Classic took over in late 1990-91.

Anyways, I got an ACTUAL SE SuperDrive off eBay, it arrived yesterday. After verifying the ROM and SWIM, it looks to be a real 1.4MB capable machine! Yay!

Problem is, when I opened the floppy drive to clean it, the top head fell right off the arm! Whomp whomp. Now I need to find a replacement 1.44mb Sony drive, and people want $$$ for them now. I’m gonna recap it in the meantime to get it ready.

It also had a maxell bomb waiting to go off. Replaced that with an EBC.

 

[MacTech68]

Sorry to hear about that. If you're having trouble finding one, remember that these drives (Apple Service part no. 661-0474) are present in all these models:

Macintosh Classic / Classic II
Macintosh II
Macintosh IIci
Macintosh IIcx
Macintosh IIfx
Macintosh IIsi
Macintosh IIvx / IIvi - there are late models that use the next generation of drive
Macintosh IIx
Macintosh LC III - there are late models that use the next generation of drive
Macintosh LC / LC II
Macintosh Portable
Macintosh SE
Macintosh SE / 30
Performa 200
Performa 400 Series
Performa 600
Quadra 700
Workgroup Server 60
Workgroup Server 95
PowerBook Duo Dock Plus
Macintosh Color Classic
Macintosh TV
PowerBook Duo Dock
PowerBook Duo Dock II
Quadra 900 / 950
Centris 610 - (NOT Quadra)
Centris 650 - (NOT Quadra)
Centris 660AV - (NOT Quadra)
Quadra 800
Quadra 840AV
Workgroup Server 80


The following models are likely to have the next generation of drive - (ie incompatible) as are any other later Mac models. These can be identified by a scalloped finger grip cutout in the middle of the floppy slot and a black flap on the front of the drive as shown:

Macintosh LC 520 / 550 / 575 some of these also have the next generation
Quadra 610
Quadra 650
Quadra 660AV



Damage to the top head is a common fault. The head itself is somewhat free to move and is easily snagged if a floppy is forcibly removed from a drive whose eject mechanism is stuck mid-transit. Worse still, if a floppy is inserted into a drive whose eject mechanism is stuck mid-transit, the floppy will most likely break the top head off.


EDIT - Here's a candidate - NOTE: NOT an endorsement of the seller or item and it's "pot-luck". Make sure you can see the floppy drive in still inside. Even ask directly.

Vintage Apple Macintosh Performa 400 M1700 Desktop Computer - Powers On | eBay

We will try to accommodate your needs.

www.ebay.com

 

[JDW]

Original (800K FD) ICs are:

342-0352-A HI ROM
342-0353-A LO ROM
344-0043-A IWM

Upgraded (1.44MB FD):

342-0701 HI ROM
342-0702 LO ROM
344-0062-01 SWM

There were 2 SE motherboard revisions:

OLD: 820-0176-B (1986) - 630-4125
NEW: 820-0250-A (1988) - 630-4250

It also seems that the old ROMs & IWM allowed compatibility with System 4.0 & Finder 5.4, but the newer ROMs & SWIM require System 6.0.3 minimum.

Would you know the answers to these 3 questions?

1) Can the 800K-compatible chips (old ROMs & IWM) be moved into the newer revision 630-4250 motherboard and work fine? (800K drives only, System 4.0 compatibility retained)

2) Can the 1.44MB-compatible chips (new ROMs & SWIM) be moved into the older revision 630-4125 motherboard and work fine? (1.44MB & 800K drives OK, System 6.0.3 min. required)

3) Can the newer 344-0062 SWIM chip be used with the older ROMs, regardless of motherboard revision? And will doing so enable 1.44MB drive compatibility? Or would that combination of chips only allow for 800K drive compatibility because the ROMs would be old?

 

[Berenod]

I kind of gave up on exactly the same issue, and moved over to using a BlueSCSI to get stuff on my SE.
The BlueSCSI is cheaper then a SCSI2SD, als a fair bit slower, but works well, and in the DB25 version it is so easy to use as an external drive.
The DB25 version is the one I use (as just an external drive), as this way I do retain the full authenticity of the SE, along with rattling spinner drive noises

 

[JDW]

I kind of gave up on exactly the same issue, and moved over to using a BlueSCSI to get stuff on my SE.
The BlueSCSI is cheaper then a SCSI2SD, als a fair bit slower, but works well, and in the DB25 version it is so easy to use as an external drive.
The DB25 version is the one I use (as just an external drive), as this way I do retain the full authenticity of the SE, along with rattling spinner drive noises

BlueSCSI, MacSD, RaSCSI, and SCSI2SD are all fine solutions for a SCSI HDD replacement, but in terms of the title of this thread being about the floppy drive, I would have to suggest the FloppyEMU as being the appropriate modern SD card replacement. Even so, wherever possible, it's always nice to get the real floppy drive working to read some of those old disks. It's an important and fun part of the vintage Mac experience.

 

[Berenod]

BlueSCSI, MacSD, RaSCSI, and SCSI2SD are all fine solutions for a SCSI HDD replacement, but in terms of the title of this thread being about the floppy drive, I would have to suggest the FloppyEMU as being the appropriate modern SD card replacement. Even so, wherever possible, it's always nice to get the real floppy drive working to read some of those old disks. It's an important and fun part of the vintage Mac experience.

Agree in a way.

In my case my floppy drive is working just fine, it's just the problem of creating 800k floppies, it is one of the few things we can't do for example with basilisk II. You just can't create (or read) 800k Mac floppies using a 1.44MB drive!
Simply different technology...
What, if I understand correctly, is also the exact problem of the OP, as he lacks a "bridge" machine to create 800k floppies.

I actually sometimes use my SE just for that very reason, so I can create 800k floppies from files or images you can find on the internet, which I put on the SD card (through mounting the HD image in basilisk), and then put on 800k floppies to be used "the correct authentic" way on other vintage machines with the 800k drives.

 

[JDW]

You just can't create (or read) 800k Mac floppies using a 1.44MB drive!
Simply different technology...

Correct if you're speaking about a PC 1.44MB drive, but on the Mac, being it a newer SE with the newest ROMs that support 1.44MB drives or the SE/30 (or similar), you can read/write 400K, 800K and 1.44MB disks. And from what others have told me recently, it would appear that if you have old ROMs and the old IWM chip in your SE, yet you have the 1.44MB drive, it should read/write 400K and 800K disks just fine (just not 1.44MB disks, since that requires both ROM and SWIM chip support).

 

[Berenod]

Indeed, was what I meant, the "modern" 1,44 MB floppies we usually run on our Basilisk host machines, nowadays often external USB floppy drives, as they are cheap, easy to find and work on pretty much any host you use to run Basilisk.

So you're basically stuck using either a bridge machine with the Mac 1,44 drive to create 800k floppies, if you don't have such a machine (as the OP has said), you're stuck with the modern alternatives using SD cards

Money wise I still think the BlueSCSI gives most bang for the buck as it can be used for more then one thing.

In a way, putting the 1,44 drive along with the needed IC's in an 800k issued SE, is also cheating a bit