Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
iTunes Europe Red Tape
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
- Status
Just read thru some of this red tape stuff.
from day one it should have been simple till everything got sorted. we should have all been allowed to use the US Based store. Makes perfect sense till each itms is up and running. Lawyers who would have em..
from day one it should have been simple till everything got sorted. we should have all been allowed to use the US Based store. Makes perfect sense till each itms is up and running. Lawyers who would have em..
Good point about Telstra winmacguy, I never looked at it like that, so point taken.
As for having access to the ITMS, I recently went on a trip to the U.S. and signed up with AOL for free internet access (they have a 60day free access deal going there) so that I can log online with my powerbook while away. I told the girl that I was from Australia, but she didnt seem to care and registered me as an American user.
Well recently when ITMS was made available to AOL members in the US, I decided to see it I could use it, and it worked, and so I was able to download music. Unfortunately after a few weeks my credit card no longer worked as the billing address of my AOL membership and the billing address of my credit card didnt match. So I now have a friend in the US who sends me gift certificates and that lets me continue to download.
As I said, I would much prefer to be a registered Aussie user and do it all legit, but Im still paying for the music so im not stealing the music. Its the greed of the record companies thats holding everything up, so its their fault that I have to resort to this.
I realise giving out all my details on the net here has made me a sitting duck to lose my access to the ITMS and if that happens so be it. It will only happen because of the greed of others, not because of my willingness to pay for downloading music.
As for having access to the ITMS, I recently went on a trip to the U.S. and signed up with AOL for free internet access (they have a 60day free access deal going there) so that I can log online with my powerbook while away. I told the girl that I was from Australia, but she didnt seem to care and registered me as an American user.
Well recently when ITMS was made available to AOL members in the US, I decided to see it I could use it, and it worked, and so I was able to download music. Unfortunately after a few weeks my credit card no longer worked as the billing address of my AOL membership and the billing address of my credit card didnt match. So I now have a friend in the US who sends me gift certificates and that lets me continue to download.
As I said, I would much prefer to be a registered Aussie user and do it all legit, but Im still paying for the music so im not stealing the music. Its the greed of the record companies thats holding everything up, so its their fault that I have to resort to this.
I realise giving out all my details on the net here has made me a sitting duck to lose my access to the ITMS and if that happens so be it. It will only happen because of the greed of others, not because of my willingness to pay for downloading music.
Well apparently the record companies are on board as we do have UK, French, German, and Swedish record companies now listed as imports in iTMS.
If they are having problems in other countries Apple should open the store to those countries that are good to go.
The others will soon follow once they see the service take off.
What will be funny is if iTMS Japan kicks off before iTMS Europe.
$.99 is .78 euros
$.99 is .54 p
$.99 is 105.14 yen
$.99 is $1.27 in Aussie dollars
$.99 is $1.30 in Canadian dollars.
If they are having problems in other countries Apple should open the store to those countries that are good to go.
The others will soon follow once they see the service take off.
What will be funny is if iTMS Japan kicks off before iTMS Europe.
$.99 is .78 euros
$.99 is .54 p
$.99 is 105.14 yen
$.99 is $1.27 in Aussie dollars
$.99 is $1.30 in Canadian dollars.
I wouldn't be surprised if the RIAA tried to sue for illegally downloading legal music.
They sue their own customers and then expect them to pay for their music after the $3000+ settlement!!!
Maybe we should create an iTunes for that doesn't involve the Record Companies. Artists could just upload their songs for a small fee, and everybody could download them. The artist could be paid on a per download basis.
This makes much more sense then how it is done now.
This makes much more sense then how it is done now.
My word, western Europe tied up with business politics and backstabbing and indecision? What a suprise...
Seriously, getting organisations - even related ones - to agree in Europe (particually between Britain, France & Germany - old rivalries die hard...) to agree is like like pissing into a force 10 wind and hoping not to get any on yourself. I don't envy the Apple legal team this challenge...
Seriously, getting organisations - even related ones - to agree in Europe (particually between Britain, France & Germany - old rivalries die hard...) to agree is like like pissing into a force 10 wind and hoping not to get any on yourself. I don't envy the Apple legal team this challenge...
em, OK. that kind of takes the biscuit for the dumbest post I've seen all day.
Europe has many currencies other than the pound and euro, there is the kroner, for example. And I would keep your euro phobia to yourself, most brits I've met don't have a problem with Irish, Swedes, Germans or whatevers.
I dont think that could get you in too much trouble Walexx since you did have a US account and billing address which is all that is asked for and you are legitimately paying for downloaded music. All I can say is You lucky guy!
Us kiwis are unable to by from Destra music online for the same reasons. It is going to be interesting to see how the availablity of music works on iTMS when it finally becomes available. I would expect that there would be songs that I would want to by from other countries that may not necesarily be available on the NZ market but available on iTMS UK for example... will have to see how that pans out.
On the other hand in terms of .99c US a track. Since the US dollar is traded internationally and all other currencies currently convert either up or down depending on the strength of the Green Back. For example if your travelling through Indonesia (Bali markets) and buying some shoes or a shirt they will tell you that it is 2.50US or 75 Baht (I dont know what the name of the the local Indonesian currency is ) and you negotiate from there. So for .99 cent tracks on iTMS they should go for the equivalent in Francs or DM or Sterling which would not necessarily be .99P unless of course Apple puts a premium on its European iTMS which I gather they currently do for Apple UK etc.
I can understand that the back end IT billing systems would vary between countries compared to what Apple uses which is obviously something Apple is having to set up so that they can be universal through out. I know accounting taxation and auditing systems and processes vary between counties as do the finacial times of the year when end of year finacial reporting has to be done by global corporates.
Re: Re: The problem
Alright everyone: go read this post. What he says is an excellent summary of the whole problem. All these issues have been clearly stated in many other in depth anaylses of this whole mess.
Summary: Apple is not to blame for a modicum of the problem. Music companies and government regulations (that includes taxes) are entirely responsible for all folk outside the US not having the ITMS.
Originally posted by whocares
The biggest problems would be different tax rates between different contries and different currencies (the UK, one of the biggest markets, still uses Sterling Pounds...). Remember, only 12 of the 15 countries (soon to be 25) use the Euro.
Another problem is users purchasing music from another country. For eg. a French user buying in Germany. Although this is legal and the whole point of the free market, this will most likely piss off the music companies
Alright everyone: go read this post. What he says is an excellent summary of the whole problem. All these issues have been clearly stated in many other in depth anaylses of this whole mess.
Summary: Apple is not to blame for a modicum of the problem. Music companies and government regulations (that includes taxes) are entirely responsible for all folk outside the US not having the ITMS.
Re: Re: Re: The problem
Bull.
It's got nothing to do with exchange rates or taxes in each European state or even record companies in each restricting music sales to a territory.
1) It's not rocket science to implement a shopping cart system that presents a price in multiple currencies and taxes. Websites do this day in, day out. Go look at Amazon for instance. Different prices and taxes in each zone.
2) If you know the country the user is in from their billing address, you can restrict content to that area. This is already done for the USA with iTMS. I guess they need extra staff writing country specific editorial so European's don't get US rubbish like Country Music, but how hard is that to do? Hey, just banning any artist with names like 'Garth' or hyphenated first names like 'Billy-Bob' and 'Betty-Lou' gets rid of most of the rubbish. ;-)
I don't know why Apple aren't releasing their Euro iTMS country by country as they get agreements with each record company and area but technical or geographical issues are not it. There are already a number of online music stores that are available in several European countries such as Microsoft's OD2.com
They sensibly took a pragmatic approach and instead of waiting for a Europe wide agreement, have been adding countries and artists as they go and have been online since last August. Apple are taking a big risk waiting.
Bull.
It's got nothing to do with exchange rates or taxes in each European state or even record companies in each restricting music sales to a territory.
1) It's not rocket science to implement a shopping cart system that presents a price in multiple currencies and taxes. Websites do this day in, day out. Go look at Amazon for instance. Different prices and taxes in each zone.
2) If you know the country the user is in from their billing address, you can restrict content to that area. This is already done for the USA with iTMS. I guess they need extra staff writing country specific editorial so European's don't get US rubbish like Country Music, but how hard is that to do? Hey, just banning any artist with names like 'Garth' or hyphenated first names like 'Billy-Bob' and 'Betty-Lou' gets rid of most of the rubbish. ;-)
I don't know why Apple aren't releasing their Euro iTMS country by country as they get agreements with each record company and area but technical or geographical issues are not it. There are already a number of online music stores that are available in several European countries such as Microsoft's OD2.com
They sensibly took a pragmatic approach and instead of waiting for a Europe wide agreement, have been adding countries and artists as they go and have been online since last August. Apple are taking a big risk waiting.
Let's not turn this into a political discussion. Especially with this very sensitive issue. Go "not pick" a fight about this in the Political/War forums. I would be more than pleased to discuss this with you.
-singletrack
You raise an interesting question there. I think an answer could be found in my previous post: bying music from a different country. If Apple wants to cut a real sweet deal with the record companies, they need to get it right.
Opening a store in say France, and France only, will allow users from the EU to purchase the music too, even from countries where Apple hasen't yet secured a deal. I think that would potentially piss off the record industry.
Also, European music industries are cranking up against illegal downloads, so this may be slowing the process...
The whole point behind the EU is free trade between member states. It's illegal for a company to refuse to sell an item to a purchaser from another member state.
If I, in the UK, wanted to buy a CD from France or Germany then I'm perfectly entitled to do so and the tax is paid at the rate of the country I purchase it from. I've done this a couple of times already for some artists that I can't get in the UK.
The problem though is that each country has it's own record companies or divisions with their own music that are important to it. What's the point in a European store if all the music was German? There are almost no German records sold in the UK because we generally don't like German music. I'd guess the same would be true of each country with the possible exception being English language bands as English is a more common second language.
I just think that Apple trying to go Europe wide is a daft strategy and others are beating them to important markets by hitting at a country wide level first.
I think splashman needs to go buy himself a Dell.
I choose not to hate the French. (Any place that grows grapes can't be all bad. I keep that in mind everytime I speak to my sister -- who lives in Texas. )
I choose not to hate the French. (Any place that grows grapes can't be all bad. I keep that in mind everytime I speak to my sister -- who lives in Texas.
)
Re: Good Gravy!
I don't think language is much of an issue; almost every app in OSX is localized on release. And the song titles themselves shouldn't need to be localized, I'd imagine.
The currency could be a problem, if Apple charged 99 (euro) cents per song, then the euro plunged against the dollar or the pound, would they have take the hit? Then again, they already face this problem selling through their various online stores.
I don't think language is much of an issue; almost every app in OSX is localized on release. And the song titles themselves shouldn't need to be localized, I'd imagine.
The currency could be a problem, if Apple charged 99 (euro) cents per song, then the euro plunged against the dollar or the pound, would they have take the hit? Then again, they already face this problem selling through their various online stores.
Re: Re: Good Gravy!
Which brings up a new question: does Apple really care about the dollar/euro rate? They licensing the music from European companies/branches, thus they should be paying in Euros and selling in Euros. It's not like hardware, you know, 'real' stuff that has to be bought in foreign countries and shipped around, it's intellectual property (although I feel that most of the stuff isn't so intellectual anymore ).
Which brings up a new question: does Apple really care about the dollar/euro rate? They licensing the music from European companies/branches, thus they should be paying in Euros and selling in Euros. It's not like hardware, you know, 'real' stuff that has to be bought in foreign countries and shipped around, it's intellectual property (although I feel that most of the stuff isn't so intellectual anymore
).More "tolerance"
Go buy a Dell yourself. I merely mentioned an ironic juxtaposition. I don't hate the French any more than I hate you. I'm just happy I don't live there. One can express a preference, and disagree without hating, correct?
Originally posted by numediaman
I think splashman needs to go buy himself a Dell.
I choose not to hate the French. (Any place that grows grapes can't be all bad. I keep that in mind everytime I speak to my sister -- who lives in Texas.
Go buy a Dell yourself. I merely mentioned an ironic juxtaposition. I don't hate the French any more than I hate you. I'm just happy I don't live there. One can express a preference, and disagree without hating, correct?
- Status