Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

whatever

macrumors 6502a
Dec 12, 2001
880
0
South of Boston, MA
I guess I must not be the "average person"? If I pay for a song I want to have the ability to play it on whatever device I want, etc. without having to gain a third party's permission (ie: authorize my player as iTunes requires).

What are you talking about. The iTunes Music Store is designed to operated currently on two devices. Personals computers and iPods. For a song to play on a personal computer you need to have iTunes, for it to play on an iPod, well you need an iPod.

However, you don't have a car adapter and wish to play it on a CD player you can rip a CD.

Your argument doesn't make sense to me. It's like someone complaining that they can't play their Xbox 360 games on WII. Which is a competing device.
 

cloudnine

macrumors 6502a
Jul 3, 2006
532
0
San Francisco, CA
That's exactly what worries me too. :mad:

Are you guys serious? I don't think they meant Visa and Mastercard are selling reports stating who's buying iTunes music... I think they meant a study based on the sales from iTunes, which as far as I know are only available via credit card or gift card purchase. You can't walk up to the iTMS with cash or check in hand...

o_O
 

gauriemma

macrumors member
May 4, 2004
92
1
The report is surprising in that Apple has routinely given the impression that the iTunes store has been doing well. During Apple's 3rd Q 2006 conference call, Apple estimated that it had 85% of the legal download market.

Not so surprising, really. If the market for downloadable music has dropped across the board, Apple can still have 85% of it. It just has 85% of a smaller pie.
 

gauriemma

macrumors member
May 4, 2004
92
1
I see your side of this, but as someone who primarily buys albums, iTunes has never made sense to me.

Even CD singles can be had for $2 or $3, living in a metro area with a wealth of music retailers. Heck, Tower Records has their CD singles priced at 75 cents during their current liquidation sale!


Yeah, and right now, all remaining stock is 70% off. Just picked up 5 CDs for around $20. But Tower's not going to be around after next Tuesday...
 

apb3

macrumors regular
Aug 16, 2006
183
0
PTSD therapy
Are you guys serious? I don't think they meant Visa and Mastercard are selling reports stating who's buying iTunes music... I think they meant a study based on the sales from iTunes, which as far as I know are only available via credit card or gift card purchase. You can't walk up to the iTMS with cash or check in hand...

o_O

No the data was not from the CC companies. It was from a SMALL non-random sample of people who opted-in to share theie credit card purchases.

It would be a breach of their privacy policy (and INCREDIBLY bad PR at least) for a cc company to do something like that even if they submitted the info "annonymously."

Hugs and Kisses!!
 

apb3

macrumors regular
Aug 16, 2006
183
0
PTSD therapy
Frankly, if that's your stance, I'm more worried about what it means for you...

And I'm worried about what my purchases of Fergie (and a gift purchase of it for my cousin as well) and Paris Hilton say about my warped mind. Granted they were semi-jokes but I find myself listening to them WAY to much. I try to blame it on my sons but I got a weird look from my wife when I fired up Front Row on the living room TV just to hear Fergilicious while waiting for Sleeper Cell to start. My sons were already asleep so I could think of no excuse...

Must've been a psychological side effect of all those shots and pills they gave us before deploying.:eek:
 

wmmk

macrumors 68020
Mar 28, 2006
2,414
0
The Library.
The report is based off of an analysis of credit card transactions over a 27 month period.

Well, a lot of iTS users are young people who, myself included, don't have credit cards and buy iTunes prepaid cards in brick and mortar establishments. This, IMHO, is a biased study.
 

NewSc2

macrumors 65816
Jun 4, 2005
1,044
2
New York, NY
And I'm worried about what my purchases of Fergie (and a gift purchase of it for my cousin as well) and Paris Hilton say about my warped mind. Granted they were semi-jokes but I find myself listening to them WAY to much. I try to blame it on my sons but I got a weird look from my wife when I fired up Front Row on the living room TV just to hear Fergilicious while waiting for Sleeper Cell to start. My sons were already asleep so I could think of no excuse...

Must've been a psychological side effect of all those shots and pills they gave us before deploying.:eek:

Don't be too worried -- even though Fergie, Christina, Paris, etc. aren't "musicians" per se, they have excellent producers behind their backs.

Music nowadays is all about hiring 40-50 year old music professionals, and slapping a cute face on top. It kind of bastardizes the whole concept, but these producers are really really good musicians.

I met Christina Aguilera's producer and he's produced Quincy Jones and listens to all sorts of music -- jazz, techno, etc.

These people understand the concept of pop music through and through, and make cookie-cutter, catchy songs (that go through the bastard record companies, but still...)

And anyway, I agree with the people who say they first downloaded a lot of music to digitize their collection, and now they're pretty much through with it all, and might purchase around 5 albums a year. Frankly I've never bought on iTunes -- I usually buy CD's off amazon.
 

iMeowbot

macrumors G3
Aug 30, 2003
8,634
0
Not so surprising, really. If the market for downloadable music has dropped across the board,
But this is exactly the problem with the Forrester observation, the download market grew by 75% in the past year. That's half the growth rate of last year, and that itself is something to be concerned about for such a young market, but it's still growth.
 

schnico

macrumors newbie
Dec 12, 2006
3
0
65% drop in revenue not possible

I'm stunned to think anyone could believe a 65% drop in monthly revenue for iTS is even a remote possibility. If that were the case, do you think we would be hearing it from Forrester? Record companies would be jumping ship, or at the very least complaining very loudly in the media. Such a drop would be a huge trend away the success of the iPod.

I do believe that the iTunes purchases of 5580 specific households MIGHT drop 65% from one year to the next. It is conceivable that folks might buy a lot of iTunes songs early on for their iPod and slow down their purchases later. I am skeptical, but really, if these 7000 folks have had iPods for at least 27 months - maybe individual users tend slow down their iTunes purchases over time as they build out their libraries.

However, even if people slow down their song purchases after a couple years, there are many, many more iPods being sold now than there were 2 years ago. So it is still highly likely that sales at iTS are increasing, though I agree we don't know those specific numbers. And neither does Forrester (though they are not claiming to know).

And for those who are jumping to the conclusion that the cause of the supposed decline in iTS sales is derived from DRM, that is just as silly as believing iTS monthly revenue has declined 65%. DRM has been there from the beginning. What event happened in relation to DRM in 2006 that could have caused millions of people to change their minds about buying songs from iTS?
 

Gasu E.

macrumors 603
Mar 20, 2004
5,048
3,173
Not far from Boston, MA.
There is a lot of confusion in both the original article and this forum about what the Forrester researcher did and did not say. I am a Forrester subscriber and I've read the report so let me try to clear it up.

Forrester maintains a panel of 7,000 consumers who willing provide information about their technology habits, including their credit card purchases. No one snooped through people's credit card data. These people willing gave their information for study, knowing it would be kept confidential.

Forrester looked at transactions by this panel from April 2004 to June 2006. During this time there were 2,791 iTunes purchases by the 7,000 consumers on their panel.

Forrester also looked at the data from the perspective of "households," not just individual users. There were 5,580 households that remained part of their panel continuously from July 2005 to June 2006. During that 12 month period, only 181 of those households made an iTunes purchase.

Right away you should realize this isn't a very deep population sample. Apple has sold more than 1.5 billion songs on iTunes and this study only looks at a total of 2,791 of those transactions, spread out over two years.

Everything that Forrester says in this research about iTunes is drawn from this sample. The big headline is that the number of transactions, per household in their panel, went from about 17 in January 2006 to about 7 in June 2006, while the average amount of dollars spent on each transaction went from about $7 to about $5.50. This amounts to a 65% drop in monthly revenue during that period.

This was the first drop in the data that Forrester saw, reversing a generally upward climb since June 2004.

Forrester themselves cautioned heavily against people drawing larger conclusions. In particular, the report does not suggest that "iTunes monthly revenue droped 65%." It says the monthly revenue dropped 65% among the people it's been watching as part of its consumer panel.

It may well be that people get an iPod, buy some songs (not too many) and then stop buying after a little while. But if more people keep buying iPods and then buying songs that may prop up the revenue from the store. Of course, long term, that still bad news for the iTunes store but it's different that what's been reported.

Thank you for sharing that.

Based on what you are describing, the Forrester report says even less than you conclude. The number of transactions per household in a given month only apply to households that made a purchase during that month (otherwise the numbers would be ridiculous). It says 181 households made a transaction over 12 months, but it does not say when the made them. It is possible, for example, that only 1 household made purchases in the first month and all 181 made purchases in the last month. Forrester is not implying that revenues are down, even in their small sample. It is only saying that the average revenues per month for customers who made a purchase in that month are down.
 

bigfoot

macrumors newbie
Jan 15, 2006
5
0
My daughter's 1st ipod was replaced once, fixed a second time now DOA. Her second is now DOA. She's an adult who takes good care of things. She has stopped paying for itune songs. She refuses to buy another ipod. I rarely download songs to burn audio discs. I think the honeymoon is winding down as is the novelty.
 

ChrisA

macrumors G5
Jan 5, 2006
12,612
1,747
Redondo Beach, California
It's going to be interesting. Will Apple cave and add $20.00 to every iPod in this naked money grab by the studios?

I hope they do AND I hope Apple states that included with each iPod is a paid up license to "steal music". Although if you just paid the studios $20 it is no longer "stealing" because you just paid.

The studios need to think twice before asking for compensation. Once you start taking money people think it is in exchange for some product or service.
 

theBB

macrumors 68020
Jan 3, 2006
2,453
3
That guy cannot do any math, either. He is plotting cumulative sales of songs and claims that iTunes sales are growing dramatically. Well, cumulative sales would never show you a drop in sales. If Apple sells one more song next year, the cumulative sales would show an increase, even though sales per year would be horribly down from last year.

Again - declining growth is not EXACTLY the same as declining sales.
Yes, that's true, but Forrester's sample of consumer spending does show a decline in sales per month. It is NOT a case of confusing declining growth with declining sales. The only question is whether their sample of a few thousand consumers represent behavior of the millions of consumers around the world accurately.
 

ChrisA

macrumors G5
Jan 5, 2006
12,612
1,747
Redondo Beach, California
Possibly the market is getting more educated. At first they bought iTumes downloads, now they find (1) they don't like 128kbps quality and (2) they figured out how to rip their CDs. or (3) they've figured out how to use the other on-line services that charge les than Apple.
 

Digitalclips

macrumors 65816
Mar 16, 2006
1,475
36
Sarasota, Florida
When iTunes was first released, everything was new. After the first few months, people had gotten the available songs they wanted. Now, those customers simply wait for new songs they want to be released.

The inital surge and the subsequent drop should have been expected.

I agree 100%. Plus iPods are not only bought by those wanting to buy music on iTunes, we have several in the family and 99% of content is from our CD and even LP collections plus a few ibooks. If we are not unique there might not be any direct connection to iPod sales and iTunes sales and we all know Apple make the big $s on iPods and Macs.
 

torv

macrumors newbie
Jun 19, 2003
2
0
I'm Not Surprised...

Frankly, those numbers seem logical if only anecdotally.

The article seems to imply that it has something to do with the iTunes Music Store or music downloads in general which I believe is incorrect. The article is missing the obvious point: for the most part the music being produced today SUCKS!!! There is no breakout hit artist on the market at all. I remember a couple of years ago when Coldplay went back to the drawing board with what was to become X&Y because the band wasn't happy with the record. BMI's stock plummeted on that announcement because they didn't have a hit band's record for another 6 months.

It's so simple -- no hit bands = lousy music sales, on-line or otherwise.
 

recordprod

macrumors member
Jul 26, 2005
59
0
Maybe Apple should offer at least CD quality encodes? I'd not buy any of the low quality stuff currently on offer.
 

Sabenth

macrumors 6502a
Jan 24, 2003
887
3
UK
Frankly, those numbers seem logical if only anecdotally.

The article seems to imply that it has something to do with the iTunes Music Store or music downloads in general which I believe is incorrect. The article is missing the obvious point: for the most part the music being produced today SUCKS!!! There is no breakout hit artist on the market at all. I remember a couple of years ago when Coldplay went back to the drawing board with what was to become X&Y because the band wasn't happy with the record. BMI's stock plummeted on that announcement because they didn't have a hit band's record for another 6 months.

It's so simple -- no hit bands = lousy music sales, on-line or otherwise.

bang to rights got it in one there isnt anything worth really getting unless you dig really deep and lets face it not many people do they go with the top 10/40 and as for the credit card stuff to be expected without a doubt
 

JSchwage

macrumors 6502a
May 5, 2006
580
33
Rochester, NY
I stopped buying songs on iTunes after I bought about 35 songs. I just can't deal with the DRM restrictions anymore. I want to be able to do what I want with my music, and I'd rather have a higher bitrate than 128kbps anyway.
 

schatten

macrumors member
Sep 17, 2003
98
0
Cleveland, OH, USA
Pepsi fundage?

Isn't this the first year without the Pepsi free iTunes givaway? I wonder if that had much bearing. I know that the Pepsi givaway always prompted me to not only buy more pepsi but more iTunes music as well!
 

Object-X

macrumors 6502a
Aug 3, 2004
633
142
Deja Vu

I'm experiancing a little Deja Vu. Wasn't there a story just like this last year about this time? iTunes sales are plummeting and then when the holiday season was over, Apple announced their numbers, and they were off the chart. My prediction is more of the same.
 

phytonix

macrumors 6502
Jan 26, 2006
388
15
Check out emusic.com they sell digital tracks of better quality than iTunes for $0.25 each.

emusic sells MP3 format, bitrate higher but not necessarily better quality, esp when there are some 168kps VBR on emusic.
No DMR is the advantage of emusic.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.