Well, I wasn't trying to say the laptop was superior (I can see applications in which either would be superior), just that the fact that the laptop's design remains essentially unchanged is reflective of a very powerful positive and should be appreciated.
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Laptops Are Boring
- Thread starter BB1970
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@Scott Baret
I just want to thank you for that really long post.
So much of that resonated with me and I really enjoyed reading it.
You are so right about the somewhat tired and stale designs …they just kind of lack imagination or even daring to try anything new… Like truly new
I would so love to have something again in the spirit of that lamp iMac that so many of us adore from the early 2000s.
This obsession with everything just being as thin and “minimal” as possible seems like it’s reached an endgame to some extent
I just want to thank you for that really long post.
So much of that resonated with me and I really enjoyed reading it.
You are so right about the somewhat tired and stale designs …they just kind of lack imagination or even daring to try anything new… Like truly new
I would so love to have something again in the spirit of that lamp iMac that so many of us adore from the early 2000s.
This obsession with everything just being as thin and “minimal” as possible seems like it’s reached an endgame to some extent
"Besides, "boring" is not the worst crime one can commit"
Boring is not a crime at all, especially when there is work that needs to be done. Boring is great because I know where everything is. I know how everything works. I know what effect is going to come out of a given cause.
Boring is profitable for me. Whether it makes money for Apple is irrelevant. Nothing is more annoying that letting those boobs in marketing deciding to "refresh" the interface. They don't move the controls on motorcycles around randomly. The controls on the LCD screen in the truck are useless in the winder because they don't work while you are wearing gloves, even though they certainly qualify as refreshed. If it isn't broke don't fix it.
Boring is not a crime at all, especially when there is work that needs to be done. Boring is great because I know where everything is. I know how everything works. I know what effect is going to come out of a given cause.
Boring is profitable for me. Whether it makes money for Apple is irrelevant. Nothing is more annoying that letting those boobs in marketing deciding to "refresh" the interface. They don't move the controls on motorcycles around randomly. The controls on the LCD screen in the truck are useless in the winder because they don't work while you are wearing gloves, even though they certainly qualify as refreshed. If it isn't broke don't fix it.
I would say it’s more about software and it’s usefulness compare to Mac. Do you see how iPadOS is still a half baked OS after a decade? It’s disappointing. I tried to do a real worked and study on my iPad but the workflows is completely worse than MacBook. Softwares missing important features and so on.
On the other hand I use my iPad more than a Mac most because it’s just a great consumption device. I’m saying this because I love my iPad not hating them. I just thought it could have gone better.
Another device that really moves the computer/human interphase is the Microsoft Studio. That has wow factor - including the price tag and the poor specs.
I wonder how a 24 inch iPad Studio would work that could used for pencil centric creativity or us oddballs that like to write on glass. Could be used in more upright position as well with mouse and keyboard as well. Niche product - yes but Apple should move the boundaries for the human computer interphase.
I wonder how a 24 inch iPad Studio would work that could used for pencil centric creativity or us oddballs that like to write on glass. Could be used in more upright position as well with mouse and keyboard as well. Niche product - yes but Apple should move the boundaries for the human computer interphase.
For me yeah an iPad is undeniably more fun to use than a laptop. So yeah, in that sense, laptops are boring.
And why many people use a laptop hunched over at a desk or on a couch instead of having an ergonomic desk setup, I will never understand. I’m referring to people who don’t need to travel for work. The iPad is much more versatile in this area because it doesn’t have to be attached to a keyboard.
And why many people use a laptop hunched over at a desk or on a couch instead of having an ergonomic desk setup, I will never understand. I’m referring to people who don’t need to travel for work. The iPad is much more versatile in this area because it doesn’t have to be attached to a keyboard.
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Ah. The Internet. Understand. Thought you were serious for a moment with the sugar water guy 😆The '030 was already getting a little long in the tooth, but compared to PC laptops of the day, the design was pretty revolutionary. That said, I mainly chose the original PowerBooks because they were the only ones old enough to support my joke.
Man, I don't know. I felt all the things you describe about the iPad far more about the M1 MBA. It doesn't even have a fan. It has battery life for DAYS. It's just as powerful when you unplug it. It doesn't even get hot. At this point, my iPad is just a notetaking device (and consumption device) for a reason. The M1 Mac is everything I always wanted a laptop to be. Go back and try a windows laptop for a week and then you will not find it boring at all.
Everyone reacts to things differently, but I was never in "awe" with the iPad. It's a laptop with the keyboard chopped off. And severely less functional in most cases.
I would always recommend macos to someone who only wanted 1 device. iPadOS is an accessory.
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But they aren't equal. The Mac is far more capable, and Apple will ensure that it always is.
If you are honestly a user that just does email, surfing, etc., then so be it, but I find my M1 MBA VERY "grab and go." Moreso, in fact, than my 12.9" iPad Pro.
This is a very, very underrated point. Every time I was trying to do something on my iPad with files it was definitely not boring!
The fundamental design of the laptop is old. However, a MacBook is in many ways better, more exciting, more interesting, and much more functional than a tablet like an iPad. And that's because:
- The MacBook has precise, to one pixel, point and click functionality built-in. This is where an iPad struggles because that is not built-in. So user interfaces have to be much more simple with large hit targets designed for fingers... with what ends up being reduced functionality in software, etc.
- The MacBook has the form factor to be able to use it like a portable desktop computer, meaning it can be used on a lap, desk, etc. without hardly any compromise with the best portable typing and pointing and clicking experience available.
- Finally, and most importantly to this discussion, the MacBook ALSO HAS MULTI-TOUCH. The advent of this years ago on MacBook has slowly grown to the point where literally every multi-touch gesture available on the iPad is available on the MacBook. This is huge, and people just don't seem to understand how big of a deal this is.
It's a totally different thing when you aren't directly manipulating the object in question (touch screen)
Multi-touch is far far less useful.
Nice to have for sure, but not really the same thing or use-fullness at all.
I'd like you to support your statements that multi-touch is far far less useful on a MacBook. To me that conclusion is absurd and also isn't supported by the facts.
Apple has invested a lot into making all the multi-touch gestures available on the MacBook, from large glass trackpads to the gestures themselves. This is one of the defining features of a MacBook and something copied by the Windows laptop makers. The multi-touch on the MacBook is better than on the iPad for the following reasons:
- You do not have to lift your arms or "reach" for hit targets on the screen to utilize touch/multi-touch on a MacBook. This is part of FITTS Principle. This is why lots of people like me ditched the external mouse and keyboard years ago, because the touch panel is right next to the keyboard so my arms and hands hardly have to move at all to engage multi-touch or the "mouse" itself. Therefore, it's faster and more efficient on the MacBook for most applications.
- Multi-touch on the MacBook doesn't fundamentally FORCE software interface changes that result in over-simplified applications and reduced functionality: this is, in fact, the result of how software is on the iPad.
I ran an eBook company and did experiments and analysis using physics and other things on multi-touch on the iPad vs the trackpad, etc. The fatigue on the iPad is significantly higher because a person has to lift their arms and move their arms a lot more and repeatedly (e.g., frequently having to hit a target at the top of the screen in an interface in an App).
The iPad has its uses, like consumption (reading, watching movies, surfing the Web)... it's better at a small subset of things vs an iPhone or laptop or desktop... which gives it a reason to exist as Steve Jobs talked about when he launched the very first iPad. But by no means is the iPad better at multi-touch than a MacBook across the board for the reasons mentioned.
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Disagree.
Not for the sake of being disagreeable. I recently purchased a new MBP 14" and I think it's probably the best laptop and "mobile" device I've owned, without owing short shrift to my iPhone 13 PM.
I used it for "real work" this weekend completing an investigative report I was doing for overtime. I was able to remote into my work WinTel desktop to access several database programs I needed to comprehensively complete the report.
The screen size, form factor, and ability to remote in were exciting features to have. I also have an Ipad pro 12" that I seem to be using less and less since I got the PM phone. The phone hits the sweet spot between the laptop and the Ipad.
The latest laptops from Apple are pretty exciting. I think the 13" MBP with the touchbar and USB C ports was kinda dumb.
But I'm very happy with my 14" MBP which I got on sale (base model, unless you're editing videos shot by the all mighty I think the 10 core version is wasted money). I plan on having it for several years.
Oh, and no butterfly keyboard. It's not as nice as the keyboard on my 3G MBP but a big improvement over the 4G MBP keyboard.
The 4G MBP is one of the Apple products that ALMOST pushed me out of the ecosystem. It was simply awful. I willed it to my wife who has, as of the writing of this post not migrated to it from my 3G MBP which is supposed to be going to my Step Daughter.
I don't think she wants it. If not, I'll sell it to one of the online outfits and use the money for a few days down the beach.
Not for the sake of being disagreeable. I recently purchased a new MBP 14" and I think it's probably the best laptop and "mobile" device I've owned, without owing short shrift to my iPhone 13 PM.
I used it for "real work" this weekend completing an investigative report I was doing for overtime. I was able to remote into my work WinTel desktop to access several database programs I needed to comprehensively complete the report.
The screen size, form factor, and ability to remote in were exciting features to have. I also have an Ipad pro 12" that I seem to be using less and less since I got the PM phone. The phone hits the sweet spot between the laptop and the Ipad.
The latest laptops from Apple are pretty exciting. I think the 13" MBP with the touchbar and USB C ports was kinda dumb.
But I'm very happy with my 14" MBP which I got on sale (base model, unless you're editing videos shot by the all mighty I think the 10 core version is wasted money). I plan on having it for several years.
Oh, and no butterfly keyboard. It's not as nice as the keyboard on my 3G MBP but a big improvement over the 4G MBP keyboard.
The 4G MBP is one of the Apple products that ALMOST pushed me out of the ecosystem. It was simply awful. I willed it to my wife who has, as of the writing of this post not migrated to it from my 3G MBP which is supposed to be going to my Step Daughter.
I don't think she wants it. If not, I'll sell it to one of the online outfits and use the money for a few days down the beach.
One's experience cannot be entirely invalid but so I'm not confident in the iPad replacing the laptop w/ a "desktop operating system."
First, Apple is aggressively committed to not just porting over desktop OS functionality to their tablet OS. Apple always want to reconsider how that functionality should exist in the new context and they have a mix record executing this prerogative. Sometimes the re-contextualization is very complicated, non-obvious, or otherwise hidden behind toggles or complex gestures. Other times the re-contextualization comes with limitations that make it not true replacement for the desktop OS functionality.
Second, Apple is widening what consumer use cases can be driven adequately by a tablet but there are some areas where they very clearly have little interest in pursuing. This is most clear in the software development realm. Apple's desires to maintain security on these platforms pretty much precludes their tablet OS from having the customization and extendability required to do local development.
Third, Apple has a strategic benefit to maintain previously mentioned security on the tablet OS by pushing off the development process to a "utility" OS for nuanced workflows. Apple is going to keep Macs and laptops around - and continue to iteratively improve upon them - because they and others like them need those devices to make more tablet OS versions and apps for tablets.
Let me simplify the issue here: the iPad can never be and will never be a laptop or desktop / replacement for these things. It's constrained in its design to be mobile. That means it has no built in keyboard other than an onscreen one which is no replacement for a physical keyboard. It has no precise pointing input built-in. It doesn't even stand up on its own without a person holding it or adding an obtuse "case". It's designed to be a mobile computer and has significant limitations resulting from this physical design and will never be able to be changed other than folding designs.
Folding designs can help bring the iPad closer to a laptop or desktop like experience with haptic feedback on the onscreen keyboard where the device folds in two simulating a laptop. But that still won't be as good as a laptop for a number of reasons.
It's almost as absurd to try and put a desktop operating system on an iPad as it would be on an iPhone. It's hilarious to me that people keep talking about this and just don't get it. Physical design = constraints on software and how the thing is actually able to be used. Cannot get blood from a stone... If a person wants blood, forget the stone, just go get it from the real source... in this case, a laptop, which is why they exist... to service specific needs that iPads cannot provide given their physical design.
I 100% agree with your analysis which is precisely why there will always be a place for the desktop OS and the laptop form factor.
The iPad started off like a Prius but is becoming more like an F-150 (most popular vehicle, lots of utility) while the desktop/laptop is becoming a John Deere.
Apple has become lazy. In the past it always set challenging goals (like creating thinnest laptop ever) and tried to overcome them. These days they are just doing basic stuff like janitor in a facility. A janitor knows how to keep everything clean, maybe even how to upgrade some of the existing machinery, but to create something entirely new, that requires a lot of challenges to overcome (I'm talking about detachable tablet book)? Unlikely. That's why we are not going to see any interesting products from Apple until the guys at the top realize it's not just about profits and supply chains of samey devices. Until they give way to talented people who truly have vision of things to come.
Well what did you want them to do to excite you so you're not bored? Did you want RGB or something to entertain you? Maybe you don't need one for what you do?
Umm if you're doing something because some YouTube celeb told you to then that's where the problem is. Why do people want to copy something because it's done by someone popular. Don't do it because you'll just feel dumb for copying them.
Did you expect it to get up and walk away? You're right it's a refresh of a design 30 years ago. Cars are a refresh of a design from 100 years ago and that is based off a horse carriage that goes back thousands (?) of years. Change has to be done for a purpose. What change is needed and why?
So you like the design of how it looks? An iPad is a touch screen laptop with the keyboard removed and a highly locked down OS. It has it's purposes. Also I hate to break it to you but the tablet design has been in production for over three decades so it's not new.
Well maybe that's the best device for you? What do you use it for? That's the big question! I bet the M2 iPad will be great.
I doubt it. I bet Apple spends more time on the iPad than on Mac or at least they did before Apple Silicon... Were you watching how bad Mac got vs the iPad was improving?
Not everyone likes typing on glass or can do so very well. I can do it but not nearly as efficient as I can with a physical keyboard. When I sold my iMac there was a brief period where I thought "Maybe I can do what I want on my iPad". That quickly went away as a silly fantasy. There is the first major handicap of the iPad for most people. If you want a comparable keyboard to the MacBook Air it's just become heavier than the Air. Now if that's not an issue for you then the iPad wins that round. As to the rear camera I never got that. What are you going around taking pictures of with your iPad and why wouldn't you just use your iPhone?
I dislike that word or at least how some companies and people use it. Just because you make something different or new doesn't mean it's good or useful. A screen that makes fart sounds when touched could be innovative to some people but completely useless for most. This is what separates Apple from companies like Samsung and Google. They will throw anything and everything against the wall and see what sticks. Google Soli is the first thing that comes to mind. They put RADAR in a phone and had no clue how they were going to make it useful. It was useless in the form they released it as. What companies should do is follow Apple and start off with the problem then come up with solutions.
It could be because you're used to using iPad OS and you've learned to work around it's limitations. If it works for you then it's not broken. If you start feeling like your iPad isn't doing what you want it to do very well then that's the time you need to look at other options. Don't buy a Mac because some guy on TV or YouTube says to do it. As to tablets replacing laptops anything is possible. I can't predict the future. I don't see it happening in the next decade but who knows beyond that. I find this topic interesting so need to duck 🤣
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or maybe they were just starting to remember their slogan "it just works" again
I looked this up the other day "It just works" was never Apple's official slogan apparently as I'm finding myself saying "it kinda works" 🤣
I think the days of thin laptops are coming to an end. With cpu's, gpus & ssd's getting faster, power & heat is increasing. Even raspberry pi's need heatshinks and fans now.