Let's talk about blur and distortions

[Eugr]

There is a lot of talk about glare issues, but I'm not seeing many discussions about distortions/blur caused by lens.

I've seen just one post about it, and a few related comments, so that made me wonder whether I've got two problem units in a row, or people just not noticing these things.

Now, I expect to get some blur/distortions and color fringing at the very edges of the lens, however on both my first AVP, and the current one, there are blurry areas beyond the edges.

I've ruled out the inserts by removing them and using contacts. Also, I've used the same inserts with both units and they behaved differently.
Turning off foveated rendering in accessibility ("Ignore eye motion to stabilize") didn't change the blurry areas as well.

What's interesting, it was always on the left lens, on both units I had, and the demo unit at the store. The few reports I've seen on this also mentioned left eye only. So, theoretically it could be some weird software issue, or a combination or software and hardware, as they manifest differently on different devices.

How to reproduce. Open a window with a lot of text or contrast elements. Close one eye and move your head around, looking at the same spot. Repeat on the other side. You may get some temporary blurriness due to eye tracking/foveated rendering, but if you do it slowly, it should work.

Here is a mockup of how it looks like. The yellow highlights the blurry areas.

Unit 1:

Overall not bad, but the left lens had a pretty big blurry spot on the right side. The right side was great. When using both eyes, it wasn't that apparent, as the brain just compensates with another eye. However I had a bit of an eye strain when looking in that area.

Unit 2.

Better side-to-side clarity, but larger blurry area on top. And it also has this weird area that I marked with a yellow line that is also slightly blurry and has a sort of barrel distortion. You normally don't see it, but if you move your head around, it's visible, especially on text. The right side is better. This unit gives me less eye strain, but that weird distortion line in pretty much the center of FOV is very annoying.

 

[ovrlrd]

So, theoretically it could be some weird software issue, or a combination or software and hardware, as they manifest differently on different devices.

This immediately made me think about the fact that Apple uses software to do dynamic distortion correction. Essentially when your eyes look at the more angled parts of the lenses, the software knows how to fix the distortion caused by the angle you are looking through it. Maybe do the eye tracking and lens calibration to see if it helps (but it’s also possible it is calibrated at the factory since it’s mapped to the each unique set of lenses).

I don’t like hypotheticals so I have no clue if that has something to do with it or not, but either way taking it to Apple to get fixed is probably helpful for their data collection to fix the issue on the supply/manufacturing side.

 

[fatTribble]

I did play around with this a bit. I really just got blur around the edges. I did notice that slight adjustments to the position of the VP can improve clarity.

 

[Eugr]

This immediately made me think about the fact that Apple uses software to do dynamic distortion correction.

I wonder if there is a hidden diagnostic mode that disables all software correction. "Ignore eye motion to stabilize" seems to deactivate foveated rendering (and render everything at lower resolution) and some of the distortion correction, but I suspect not all of it.

 

[Dovahkiing]

I’d be curious if anyone who has a background could comment, but presumably the lenses have to be aligned properly with the displays as part of the calibration and testing process on each unit. I wouldn’t be surprised if there was variance in how that was done across units.

 

[fs454]

I wonder if there is a hidden diagnostic mode that disables all software correction. "Ignore eye motion to stabilize" seems to deactivate foveated rendering (and render everything at lower resolution) and some of the distortion correction, but I suspect not all of it.

I’m probably the other poster you’re talking about who has reported this as i’ve been the pretty vocal about it here and on the various discord channels.

I will just say that my replacement unit completely lacks any blurry spots - the far outer ring of distortion is normal on every unit though. Concerning for sure that you seem to notice an “off” lens on the replacement too.

As for the distortion correction, you can definitely tell that the areas coming out blurry on some Vision Pros are generally the areas where the distortion correction is working overtime and has probably extreme distortion to correct for. Even on a good unit, those areas have sort of a wavy effect as you pass text through them and scrutinize it. Seems to just be the portion of the lens that requires the most precision to manufacture/align.

 

[Eugr]

I will just say that my replacement unit completely lacks any blurry spots - the far outer ring of distortion is normal on every unit though. Concerning for sure that you seem to notice an “off” lens on the replacement too.

Good to know, I will try to replace this one again then.

 

[Eugr]

Just got a new one at the store. So far it’s the best out of all three. The blurry areas are mostly confined to the edges. The edge-to-edge clarity is still not the same as my Quest 3, but it’s probably as good as it could get.

 

[Eugr]

Here is how the 3rd unit looks like - the left and right sides are almost identical and the blur areas are much smaller.
Overall clarity is also better, and even passthrough looks sharper - on the old one double quote (") in my watch complication was showing up as a single dot, and on the new one I can see both strokes.

I wonder if the first 2 were from the first production run, and the 3rd one is from the next one? At least it's a different shipment, because AVP's disappeared from my local store for a while, and now they are all back in stock.

I've also replaced 33W with 23W (my initial scan was 25W). 33 was a bit more comfortable on cheeks, but the forehead part was protruding too far. 23W also seems to be a bit shallower.

 

[OriginalAppleGuy]

Here is how the 3rd unit looks like - the left and right sides are almost identical and the blur areas are much smaller.
Overall clarity is also better, and even passthrough looks sharper - on the old one double quote (") in my watch complication was showing up as a single dot, and on the new one I can see both strokes.


View attachment 2355268

I wonder if the first 2 were from the first production run, and the 3rd one is from the next one? At least it's a different shipment, because AVP's disappeared from my local store for a while, and now they are all back in stock.

I've also replaced 33W with 23W (my initial scan was 25W). 33 was a bit more comfortable on cheeks, but the forehead part was protruding too far. 23W also seems to be a bit shallower.

Mine has always been like this last pic and I've had mine since the Wednesday after launch. I use Weiss readers and the 23W. If you used the 33W I can see where it could have been a good part of the issue you initially had.

 

[Eugr]

Mine has always been like this last pic and I've had mine since the Wednesday after launch. I use Weiss readers and the 23W. If you used the 33W I can see where it could have been a good part of the issue you initially had.

Since I still have both units on hand, I tested them both with both seals. There is no difference in blur pattern between the two. The glare is also about the same.

 

[OriginalAppleGuy]

Since I still have both units on hand, I tested them both with both seals. There is no difference in blur pattern between the two. The glare is also about the same.

When you say both units, you mean the light seals, right? So on the 3rd VP, the 33W and 23W both show the same blur pattern?

 

[Eugr]

When you say both units, you mean the light seals, right? So on the 3rd VP, the 33W and 23W both show the same blur pattern?

I meant two AVPs. I bought a replacement before returning the second one. My second one with 33W and my third one with 23W (I don’t have my first one anymore). The blur pattern stays the same on the same unit regardless of the seal, which makes sense, because it’s the lens issue.

 

[Eugr]

Also, since the new unit had 1.0.3, and my other one is on 1.1b4, I could compare things before and after the upgrade. The blur areas stay the same, but it looks like 1.1 improves sharpness of text across the board. The Mac screen looked sharper when I updated to the Beta.

 

[FreeState]

I did play around with this a bit. I really just got blur around the edges. I did notice that slight adjustments to the position of the VP can improve clarity.

I did the same and once I moved it up higher on my face it improved substantially. I only see distortion on the very extreme ends of the lenses now (like 2% of the lease, the part I would hardly ever use). I think most of these issues are related to proper placement and fit.

 

[Eugr]

I did the same and once I moved it up higher on my face it improved substantially. I only see distortion on the very extreme ends of the lenses now (like 2% of the lease, the part I would hardly ever use). I think most of these issues are related to proper placement and fit.

Yes, the positioning is definitely the key. However, in my case it was definitely the lens, as I first adjusted positioning to ensure I hit the sweet spot (and realigned displays, etc). Also, I was getting fairly consistent results with different light seals.

 

[FreeState]

Yes, the positioning is definitely the key. However, in my case it was definitely the lens, as I first adjusted positioning to ensure I hit the sweet spot (and realigned displays, etc). Also, I was getting fairly consistent results with different light seals.

Most defiantly could have been an issue with a run of them. I find it interesting that my thinking was that my eyes were aligned with the middle of the lease and they may not have been - vision can be a tricky thing.

 

[fs454]

Yes, the positioning is definitely the key. However, in my case it was definitely the lens, as I first adjusted positioning to ensure I hit the sweet spot (and realigned displays, etc). Also, I was getting fairly consistent results with different light seals.

Good to hear you got a better unit! But yeah, different light seals offering a different angle of attack and differing distances from eye to lens can place the blurry section of the lens in a different area of your view or possibly reduce it, but as was the same with mine, it was easily identifiable as a defect that was always present in some way.

I've now moved from 23W to 13W, the FOV has reduced a little but the angle of the headset has changed for the better on my face. There's less depth on the forehead part and more depth on the cheek part, and I was advised by Apple that the Solo Knit doesn't always need to sit on the upper part of your head but can be adjusted up/down and then re-tightened so achieve the optimal fit and clarity for my specific eyes and head shape. 13W has the headset tipped slightly back on my head for even contact on the cushion, and the solo knit pretty low on the back of my head - but I notice better clarity when worn this way. Even contact on my face with the 23W had the solo knit all the way at the top of the back of my head, which was comfortable but didn't offer optimal clarity 100% of the time like the 13 does.

Seem the first digit in the light seals is essentially angle of attack. "1" seems to be shallower forehead cutout+more depth at bottom, "2" seems to be closer to equal depth on top/bottom, and "3" seems to have the most depth on the forehead, with the shallowest bottom. The second digit seems to be the overall depth of the entire design. I tried 11W in-store and this adds up, as it has the same more favorable angle as 13W but with my eyes much closer to the lens (likely too close with inserts, felt a bit weird). I plan on going back and seeing if 12W is the sweet spot for me.

 

[Eugr]

Seem the first digit in the light seals is essentially angle of attack. "1" seems to be shallower forehead cutout+more depth at bottom, "2" seems to be closer to equal depth on top/bottom, and "3" seems to have the most depth on the forehead, with the shallowest bottom. The second digit seems to be the overall depth of the entire design. I tried 11W in-store and this adds up, as it has the same more favorable angle as 13W but with my eyes much closer to the lens (likely too close with inserts, felt a bit weird). I plan on going back and seeing if 12W is the sweet spot for me.

That's about right. The middle number is not absolute though, it seems to be relative to other light seals of the same design, as my eyes are closer to the lens with 23W than 33W.

Here is the comparison between 23W and 33W: