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sracer

macrumors G4
Original poster
Apr 9, 2010
10,292
13,027
where hip is spoken
even back then i thought it was totally unnecessary, though i've only seen it on some friend's computers so i might have actually missed something important about it.
the good thing back then was though that pretty much everything (non malware) were completely clean installs, were deletimg the installation folder (and maybe removing one or two lines from the autoexec.bat and/or config.sys, which more more or less (c)lean too) meant that every single trace of an app had been completely removed.
The original Norton Utilities didn't include antivirus software. IMO, if you were a casual home user back then, then it WAS totally unnecessary. For those of us who were software developers and deploying those early systems out into businesses, those tools were helpful.
 

unrigestered

Suspended
Jun 17, 2022
879
840
i somehow was thinking about Norton Commander before.
File and disk sector repair solutions inside Utilities are indeed a good thing for the professional environment (when they actually work), which wasn't covered much before with OS native solutions.
 

Yebubbleman

macrumors 603
May 20, 2010
5,796
2,386
Los Angeles, CA
All good baring Google as the default search engine, not doing that.

Again, that's merely taster's choice. Most prefer Google as their search engine. But if Bing or any of the others are more your speed, more power to you. I was more saying that changing the search engine is the only change I make to Edge to make it fine for my needs.

W10 is pretty robust, as is W11. Somethings need to be tamed for the sake of the user not the provider which is the point of this post.

Right, I'm talking ABOUT the user. Also as a provider, at the end of the day, I too, am a user. I'm talking about getting a Windows installation to be as smooth and as stable as a macOS installation.

Buy a new PC, I tend to format the drive and install Windows. If the infestation isn't too bad I'll kill the unwanted processes via Sysinternals AutoRuns, if they cant start, they don't run.

A default Windows installation doesn't entail processes that require any of that. Again, you wanted to talk about the user, not the provider.

I don't have an answer to this, other then my observation that many people who are in the debloat camp adhere to a no update mentality. I'm not knocking it but I do think its risky imo

I'm knocking it. It makes zero sense and only makes things insecure with no actual benefit. I can understand wanting to defer Feature Update releases to new versions of Windows 10 or Windows 11, and you can do that for a time while still getting security updates to the version that you are on (though doing that for Windows 10 is pointless since the only changes even being made are security related). But if you ABSOLUTELY NEED your Windows installation to not change, acquire a copy of the LTSC version and rock that for however long it is supported (though deferring monthly cumulative updates on that is still just as poor of a practice).

Sysinternal's Autoruns provides a deep enough dive to show what's running. It gives me peace of mind of finding everything.

Whatever floats your boat. There's not much running that shouldn't be running. And it's not like anything deemed non-essential that is running is eating up anywhere near enough resources to actually make a difference. You have tons of daemons running on macOS that pertain to things you are likely only using so little of the time. Why are running services in a stock installation of Windows treated any differently?

I kind of like the idea of making sure none of the cruft is laying about. True that if you're not short on space its not impacting performance but keeping a tidy computer isn't a bad thing.

It's not a bad thing, but a default installation of Windows 10 or Windows 11 IS tidy. Worrying about what processes Microsoft has running by default before you've even installed anything is about OCD and unfamiliarity with Windows than it is about actually making a practical difference in how your Windows installation actually runs. You also risk doing more damage to the OS's stability and security.

I work fairly often in the registry for my job and I personally don't find the need to clean it. The inverse, in the early days of windows registry clean up utilities did more harm then good. With that said, I find uninstalling utilities that clean up all bits of an application including the registry is beneficial.

Eh...your mileage is going to vary wildly on this one. Some uninstaller do a better job than others. The only time I've needed to go into the registry to do anything in the last 15 years is (a) building package installers for Microsoft Intune and SCCM and (b) when dealing with third party software written by people who don't know how to develop software for Windows. But, again, your mileage can vary wildly in those cases too.

The OP created the thread for things he found useful for his usage, and I totally get that those things don't fit your needs. Many don't fit my needs but I also learned about a few things, and I think that in of itself is helpful.

Not disagreeing with that. But the post wasn't about things that are tailored toward the OP's use cases for Windows. It was about providing a stable and smooth Windows experience. It's wonderful that those utilities are out there. But I'm not going to ever agree with the notion that they are NECESSARY in order to have said stable and smooth Windows experience.


thanks, so how will MS (or Windows) know the key was tied to my system if i wiped my HDD?
also... is Office a separate install, or included in the Windows installer as most Windows systems seem to come with a "30 days Office trial"?
same question regarding the acknowledgment of that key

As things stand today, For Windows:

if you bought a common name brand PC running the original Windows 8 all the way through the current version of Windows 11, that PC will have in its BIOS, the product key for whichever edition of Windows came with that PC. The Windows installer for Windows 8, Windows 8.1, Windows 10, and Windows 11 will all automatically see that key, not prompt you to enter it, and then activate following the initial out-of-box-experience part of Windows setup. It's transparent and is, from a user perspective, not different from installing macOS on a Mac.

Separately, a Windows 7 Professional, Windows 7 Ultimate, Windows 8 Pro, or Windows 8.1 Pro product key will automatically license and activate Windows 10 Pro or Windows 11 Pro, while a Windows 10 Pro key will only activate Windows 10 Pro and Windows 11 Pro. Same goes for Home versions. These days, you pretty much only need a product key if (a) you have a volume license agreement and you are activating an Enterprise version of either Windows 10 or Windows 11, (b) you are building your PC yourself, (c) you are installing Windows on an Intel Mac via Boot Camp, or (d) you are creating a virtual machine and installing Windows 10 or Windows 11 on that.

For Office: You either subscribe to Microsoft 365 (formerly "Office 365") in which case you only really deal with product keys if you buy your subscription from a retail establishment. You'd enter it online in your Microsoft account and then never need to use it again because the license is then, from that point on, tied to your Microsoft account. Similarly, if you buy a perpetual license version of Office 2019 or Office 2021, you do the same thing. Just like on the Mac versions.

It's only Office 2016 for Windows and earlier wherein you'd need to enter the product key at the time of installation and for each installation.
 

sracer

macrumors G4
Original poster
Apr 9, 2010
10,292
13,027
where hip is spoken
It might be helpful if I provide a bit more context to the perceived need to "tame" Windows 10...

I have a ton of desktop-class devices... running Linux, Mac OS, Windows, and Chrome OS. I have a great workstation-class ThinkPad (P15 Gen 2), and except for the mid-range Yoga 6, my other Windows laptops are low-end with Black Friday-level specs.

My ThinkPad P15 breezes through Windows 10 out-of-the-box with no perceivable drag anywhere. My taming techniques had no perceptible change in performance. But I was able to recover quite a bit of disk space. For this system, I only run disk cleanup-type tasks once a month. I would say that on this system there is no need to tame Windows 10.

For those low-end laptops... these taming techniques take them from little more than a (chromebook-like) portable web browser to an adequate daily driver for basic office/productivity work.

One of them, the Asus E203MA (my sentimental favorite for its matte screen and plenty of ports) has 2GB RAM / 32GB eMMC. When all system updates are applied, disk cleanup is run, there is 1.1GB of storage left available. That's just with Windows installed... no apps, no data.

After taming Win 10 on this system, installing MS Office (Word, Excel, PowerPoint), my Bible study software (w/1GB of books/resources), the result is having 12.3GB of free storage. It is usable for Bible study and sermon prep, and basic productivity tasks and planning.

It's a great little $100 netbook.

All that to say, the need and benefits of taming Win 10 are inversely proportionate to the hardware of the system. The lower the hardware specs, the greater the benefits.
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,533
43,481
It's a great little $100 netbook.
Here's an interesting YT. I might have shared this or a similar video in the past. What this video shows, that you can use windows on some really low end, low resource systems. Not advisable, or recommend, but its kind of interesting to see windows 10 boot up 176 megabytes of ram.


 
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Yebubbleman

macrumors 603
May 20, 2010
5,796
2,386
Los Angeles, CA
It might be helpful if I provide a bit more context to the perceived need to "tame" Windows 10...

I have a ton of desktop-class devices... running Linux, Mac OS, Windows, and Chrome OS. I have a great workstation-class ThinkPad (P15 Gen 2), and except for the mid-range Yoga 6, my other Windows laptops are low-end with Black Friday-level specs.

My ThinkPad P15 breezes through Windows 10 out-of-the-box with no perceivable drag anywhere. My taming techniques had no perceptible change in performance. But I was able to recover quite a bit of disk space. For this system, I only run disk cleanup-type tasks once a month. I would say that on this system there is no need to tame Windows 10.

For those low-end laptops... these taming techniques take them from little more than a (chromebook-like) portable web browser to an adequate daily driver for basic office/productivity work.

One of them, the Asus E203MA (my sentimental favorite for its matte screen and plenty of ports) has 2GB RAM / 32GB eMMC. When all system updates are applied, disk cleanup is run, there is 1.1GB of storage left available. That's just with Windows installed... no apps, no data.

After taming Win 10 on this system, installing MS Office (Word, Excel, PowerPoint), my Bible study software (w/1GB of books/resources), the result is having 12.3GB of free storage. It is usable for Bible study and sermon prep, and basic productivity tasks and planning.

It's a great little $100 netbook.

All that to say, the need and benefits of taming Win 10 are inversely proportionate to the hardware of the system. The lower the hardware specs, the greater the benefits.
If you're talking about devices that ship with S mode enabled (largely because they really don't have the muscle to run comfortably with S mode turned off), then absolutely, you gotta start disabling and leaning it out because that's hardware that really is too slow for Windows to run comfortably. I don't see that as Windows being bloated out of the gate though. I much more see that as hardware that's too cheap to run a full modern desktop operating system being tasked to do so anyway.

For the 2-4GB RAM/32GB eMMC Windows laptops where you're about to turn off S mode, your guide is a 10000% absolute must. For the kind of machine that isn't emaciated out of the gate, so long as you have your drivers queued up, you ought to not need it. Then again, I always steer people away from S-mode machines for this reason.
 

Queen6

macrumors G4
It might be helpful if I provide a bit more context to the perceived need to "tame" Windows 10...

I have a ton of desktop-class devices... running Linux, Mac OS, Windows, and Chrome OS. I have a great workstation-class ThinkPad (P15 Gen 2), and except for the mid-range Yoga 6, my other Windows laptops are low-end with Black Friday-level specs.

My ThinkPad P15 breezes through Windows 10 out-of-the-box with no perceivable drag anywhere. My taming techniques had no perceptible change in performance. But I was able to recover quite a bit of disk space. For this system, I only run disk cleanup-type tasks once a month. I would say that on this system there is no need to tame Windows 10.

For those low-end laptops... these taming techniques take them from little more than a (chromebook-like) portable web browser to an adequate daily driver for basic office/productivity work.

One of them, the Asus E203MA (my sentimental favorite for its matte screen and plenty of ports) has 2GB RAM / 32GB eMMC. When all system updates are applied, disk cleanup is run, there is 1.1GB of storage left available. That's just with Windows installed... no apps, no data.

After taming Win 10 on this system, installing MS Office (Word, Excel, PowerPoint), my Bible study software (w/1GB of books/resources), the result is having 12.3GB of free storage. It is usable for Bible study and sermon prep, and basic productivity tasks and planning.

It's a great little $100 netbook.

All that to say, the need and benefits of taming Win 10 are inversely proportionate to the hardware of the system. The lower the hardware specs, the greater the benefits.
Once I went solo, I always opted for gaming notebooks due their superior cooling and performance, Didn't need Xeon CPU's or ECC RAM, I just wiped the drives and rerolled them as a portable workstation bumping up the RAM to 32GB in some cases.

If with a low spec machine there are plenty of pruned W10 builds, equally I still have an Acer base Switch 5 (i3, 4GB, 128 SSD) on full fat W10 Pro, it manages itself amicably to the point it's not worth worrying about.

Q-6
 
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