Linksys MX5300 no so fluent

[CrystalmakeR]

Until now I had my old trusty AirPort Timecapsule. Both my Macpro2019 and my iMac 2020 was connected to it with cables. All the other stuff in my house (all apple just the radio not) was also very happily living with the Airport Timecpsule. Internet experience was very very fluent, download speed plenty enough for my needs (I am not gaming, not streaming movies, etc...). Really happy situation.

However, recently I have purchased the new LinkSys MX5300v1 router hoping it will be better (?). Well, the installation was easy. But it "stops" here. Unfortunately I experience not so fluent internet experience neither on my cabled computers, neither on our iPhones. I would describe it like a bit of "delayed" response, the webpages are not immediate as there used to be. All works fine, but not as it was.

Surely, the Linksys has the latest firmware. I just cannot believe that it does not perform as the "old" Airport Timecapsule (for my needs). Note: I have reset all the net devices (modem, switch), but no cure. Sure, I can imagine that many many users are happy with the Linksys, but until now I am not. Any help, suggestion, comment is very much welcome.

 

[satcomer]

If you wait until Spring you can get the Synology RT6600ax So you get the latest 2.5g Modem for faster connections to your ISP!

 

[CrystalmakeR]

Hmmm. OK, but do you think that the sluggish behaviour what I experience is due to the Linksys MX5300v1? When I put back my old apple router, the sluggish behaviour is just gone...very strange. I really like to know what is happening here.

 

[BrianBaughn]

That router has features with which I'm unfamiliar.

Do you have just the router or are there additional mesh devices attached?

Historically, lags in web pages loading are often caused by DNS issues. When you're connected, what do you see at System Preferences>Network>DNS Server? Is it different when you're using the old Time Capsule?

 

[VideoFreek]

Historically, lags in web pages loading are often caused by DNS issues. When you're connected, what do you see at System Preferences>Network>DNS Server? Is it different when you're using the old Time Capsule?

I think this is likely. Some things for the OP to try for troubleshooting purposes:

1. Run a speed test to rule out router performance issues: you can do this from your client device at Speedtest.net or on the router itself from the router control panel. Check the speed (Mbps) and the latency (ms) for your new router vs. the Airport. Report back with the results.
2. Check DNS settings as BrianBaughn suggests. In a typical home setup, your devices (PCs, smartphones, etc.) will receive the address of the router as the DNS server (by default, usually 192.168.1.1). The router then forwards DNS requests to the ISP's DNS servers. You can change this, of course, but the first step should be to determine whether there are any differences between how the Airport and the new MX5300 are set up. Let us know what you find out.

 

[satcomer]

That router is AX ! My feeling you should go into it's settings and rename the 6 freq to slightly different name then the 5 section! This way you can tell which network your connecting too!

 

[satcomer]

Then look at this setup:

 

[CrystalmakeR]

That router has features with which I'm unfamiliar.

Do you have just the router or are there additional mesh devices attached?

Historically, lags in web pages loading are often caused by DNS issues. When you're connected, what do you see at System Preferences>Network>DNS Server? Is it different when you're using the old Time Capsule?

I have just one unit/node, so no mesh.

New development => I have a new modem (ws thinking that this would be an issue for a newer technology). Because of the new modem, I do not need a switch between the modem and the router, so the switch is removed. The new modem has it's own switch. Now the router is directly connected to the modem. Note: the switch was old, and was limiting my download/upload speed. But now, even I have a higher download/upload speed, the lag-y behaviour is still present.

For the LinkSys router: for the DNS I see 2 addresses, one for the router (192.168.1.1) and another ("longer" one).
For the Timecapsule: unfortunately (for whatever reason), using it, I cannot connect anymore to the internet. The Time Capsule is blinking orange. When I run the Airport utility, I can see that it is "Dual NAT". Furthermore I see different router address and 2 different DNS servers.

Maybe this MX5300v1 is not OK for my Macs, iPhones, iPads.

 

[CrystalmakeR]

I think this is likely. Some things for the OP to try for troubleshooting purposes:

1. Run a speed test to rule out router performance issues: you can do this from your client device at Speedtest.net or on the router itself from the router control panel. Check the speed (Mbps) and the latency (ms) for your new router vs. the Airport. Report back with the results.
2. Check DNS settings as BrianBaughn suggests. In a typical home setup, your devices (PCs, smartphones, etc.) will receive the address of the router as the DNS server (by default, usually 192.168.1.1). The router then forwards DNS requests to the ISP's DNS servers. You can change this, of course, but the first step should be to determine whether there are any differences between how the Airport and the new MX5300 are set up. Let us know what you find out.

Please see my previous answer.
My download/upload speeds are up to the "max", what my subscription gives. I do not think, this is causing any issues.

 

[VideoFreek]

Please see my previous answer.
My download/upload speeds are up to the "max", what my subscription gives. I do not think, this is causing any issues.

OK, thanks for confirming you are getting full speed. I also asked about your latency (or "ping" time): when you run a test at Speedtest.net, it reports latency in milliseconds, which is the delay between your device and the Speedtest server. For reference, on my wired ethernet devices, I typically see 6-15 ms, a bit longer for wireless connections. YMMV, but we should confirm that you are not seeing abnormally high latencies on your connection. Next...

New development => I have a new modem (ws thinking that this would be an issue for a newer technology). Because of the new modem, I do not need a switch between the modem and the router, so the switch is removed. The new modem has it's own switch. Now the router is directly connected to the modem. Note: the switch was old, and was limiting my download/upload speed. But now, even I have a higher download/upload speed, the lag-y behaviour is still present.

For the LinkSys router: for the DNS I see 2 addresses, one for the router (192.168.1.1) and another ("longer" one).
For the Timecapsule: unfortunately (for whatever reason), using it, I cannot connect anymore to the internet. The Time Capsule is blinking orange. When I run the Airport utility, I can see that it is "Dual NAT". Furthermore I see different router address and 2 different DNS servers.

Maybe this MX5300v1 is not OK for my Macs, iPhones, iPads.

Wow, now I'm completely confused. You never should have "needed" a switch between your modem and your router, so I'm not sure what that was all about. Now, you report that your new "modem" has an integrated switch...this tells me that what you are calling a "modem" is not simply a modem at all, but rather a full router (which may or may not have its own wireless capability). This is why the TimeCapsule reports that it is "double NATted"...you are effectively running two routers in series, which can cause issues including minor latency increases, though this is probably not by itself causing your lag issue. Nevertheless, double NAT should be avoided whenever possible. See a basic primer on the differences between modems, routers, and switches here. The solution to double-NATting is to place one of the devices (either the new box or the Linksys) in "bridge" mode, or simply use an actual modem and let the Linksys handle router duties.

Continuing with the hypothesis that DNS issues are causing the lag, I suggest that you try a simple experiment. On one of your Macs connected via a wired connection, temporarily set the DNS to a fast public server. To do this, navigate to System Preferences --> Network and select the wired "Ethernet" connection in the left-hand panel. Now, click on the Advanced... button, and then the DNS tab. You should see your default DNS server 192.168.1.1 listed in greyed-out text. Next, click the plus "+" button, and enter a public DNS server (I can suggest either Cloudflare at 1.1.1.1 or Google at 8.8.8.8). Click "OK" and then "Apply". Check to see if things improve. To undo these changes, simply navigate back to the DNS tab, then select the DNS server you entered and click the minus "-" button to remove it, followed by "OK" and "Apply" as before. Note that a few ISPs may block use of DNS servers other than their own, so if this is the case with your ISP, this will kill your internet connection but at least you'll know why.

Let us know if this improves things.

 

[CrystalmakeR]

OK, ping is between 10-15 ms, jitter is between 3-6 ms.

I do not have that old modem anymore, I cannot check if it was in Bridge or in Router mode.

Reading your message, I have called the ISP. To my biggest surprise they said, that the new modem is in Router mode by default (although in the local ISP center where I have exchanged my old modem, they guy told me that it is in bridge mode). Hah...no comment. It has no WIFI.
Your assumption is fully correct . The new modem is also a router, and my LinkSys is also a router => double NATting. I have asked the ISP to put the new modem into Bridge mode - well, they say, ooo that is simple, I just have to log into my account and I can do it myself. However, for whatever reason I cannot do this at the moment (sure I can log in but cannot change the settings of the Modem). The ISP knows about it and they say they will fix it (in 24 hours, but tomorrow is Saturday, soo it will be most likely Monday.) BTW, this is quite a big provider here.

Before they fix the issue I went further.

I have tried to put the LinkSys into Bridge mode but that did not seam to work, therefore I have put it back into router mode.

So, at this moment the Modern is in Router mode, the Linksys is in Router mode, too. I understand that we need to avoid double NAT-ting, but this is what I have now.

Intermezzo: disabling iPV6 in the LinkSys router seams to help - the internet experience is better, but not 100% sure.

Following your advice I have entered 1.1.1.1 and 8.8.8.8, too in the DNS tab. Now, this makes a difference - at least it feels like. The 192.168.1.1 feels lag-y a bit.

Next: connecting my iMac directly to the modem (router mode) the DNS sets to 192.168.0.1 (automatically), and internet feels smoother.

 

[CrystalmakeR]

Meanwhile further studying the issue, I have e found that I am not the only one for who the ISP/center did the settings (or whatever) at their site wrongly. Now, I know, calling the ISP was useless...I have to go back to the local ISP center, and tell them to do the correction. hmmm. this is crazy...I keep you updated.

 

[VideoFreek]

OK, good, so making progress. Disabling IPv6 was the right thing to do; this can help. So, now you've confirmed that going directly out to Cloudflare & Google improves performance. If you can confirm that connecting the iMac directly to the ISP's router gives decent performance, then things really do begin to point to the Linksys. This is odd, though, and I can't really think of why this would be happening. Maybe the double-NAT setup IS hurting you; for sure it adds an extra "hop" for DNS name resolution. I suggest trying it again after your ISP fixes the modem/router configuration, and see if the lag is still there. If it is, the best next step would be to contact Linksys support.

One other hint: there are DNS benchmarking tools (Namebench is a popular one) that test various DNS resolvers that are available to you. Running this on one of your Macs would give you some hard data on your actual DNS resolution times, to verify whether or not this is really the problem.

Good luck!!

 

[CrystalmakeR]

Thanks!

Going directly from my iMac to the Modem/router give a slightly better experience (the Modem was in Router mode).

Now, finally (after visiting the ISP center, and a few calls to the ISP Helpdesk) my Modem is in bridge mode. Download/upload/ping is the same as it was the last time (maxed out/very close to it).
Now the internet feels a bit better. Indeed, it looks, that double NAT-ting had an effect, maybe not much but still.

What do you think?

 

[VideoFreek]

Based on your observations, it certainly seems to have had an effect. No matter what, you're better off not running double-NATed.

If you wish to further optimize your connection, I'd still recommend running Namebench to see what are the fastest DNS resolvers available to you. It may well be your ISP's, in which case no further action is needed. Or, you may find that public resolvers (Cloudflare, Google, OpenDNS, Quad-9, etc.) give faster performance. Just make sure whatever one you use is legit. You can then set your router to hand out the appropriate DNS resolver addresses (usually up to four--I'd recommend a minimum of two) via DHCP to your clients.

Have fun!

 

[CrystalmakeR]

Thanks for your advice!

I did not use Namebench yet - it is on my to do list.

However, in between the IT specialist (?) from the Mac shop (where I bought the LinkSys router) was at my place. He has checked my setup/hardware, and he has also experienced the little lag what I still have. And he just said, I have to live with that and get used to it :-(. Swapping the router to another one would not help - I was told.

Next: I have talked to LinkSys, and assigning not overlapping frequencies to the 3 channels helped a bit - it feels like that. But the small lag is still present.

I think this Linksys router is as it is (and it is good for many users, but not for me), and most likely I will go for a "lag-free" gaming router (although I am not a gamer at all). Or will wait for the new Synology RT6600 AX recommended by "satcomer". Eventually any advice for a lag-free router is very much welcome.

Note: I grow many high end very complex semiconductor crystals. Well, when semiconductor devices are made from my crystals, they have no lag at all ;-)...

 

[Soldier]

Did you every get a resolution to this issue?
I have the same problem with mx4200 and whw303 velop nodes

Strangely, when the DNS issue is occurring I can ping IP addresses directly, just not host names

 

[satcomer]

I have just one unit/node, so no mesh.

New development => I have a new modem (ws thinking that this would be an issue for a newer technology). Because of the new modem, I do not need a switch between the modem and the router, so the switch is removed. The new modem has it's own switch. Now the router is directly connected to the modem. Note: the switch was old, and was limiting my download/upload speed. But now, even I have a higher download/upload speed, the lag-y behaviour is still present.

For the LinkSys router: for the DNS I see 2 addresses, one for the router (192.168.1.1) and another ("longer" one).
For the Timecapsule: unfortunately (for whatever reason), using it, I cannot connect anymore to the internet. The Time Capsule is blinking orange. When I run the Airport utility, I can see that it is "Dual NAT". Furthermore I see different router address and 2 different DNS servers.

Maybe this MX5300v1 is not OK for my Macs, iPhones, iPads.

Yep! The rule in networking is NAT (Network Address Translation) should Only run on router closet to modem! All other routers need NAT turned off! So in tour setup it sounds as if another router is doing NAT on your network so turn off NAT in Apple Time Capsule!

 

[Soldier]

Yep! The rule in networking is NAT (Network Address Translation) should Only run on router closet to modem! All other routers ned NAT turned off! So in tour setup it sounds as if another router is doing NAT on your network so turn off NAT in Apple Time Capsule!

I see. For me I’ve already removed double NAT,
And also moved to an ISP without CGNAT. So it must be something else

 

[satcomer]

I see. For me I’ve already removed double NAT,
And also moved to an ISP without CGNAT. So it must be something else

Yea sometime I see some ISPs in America/Canada the have some to manufacture that combines the model AND a router! this sometimes confuses many users to end and cause many double NAT slowdowns!

 

[CrystalmakeR]

Did you every get a resolution to this issue?
I have the same problem with mx4200 and whw303 velop nodes

Strangely, when the DNS issue is occurring I can ping IP addresses directly, just not host names

Not really. Surely I do not have double NAT, but I still have a bit of lag. Well, my plan is to look into "satcomer's" advice = Synology RT6600ax. Is this already available?

 

[satcomer]

Not really. Surely I do not have double NAT, but I still have a bit of lag. Well, my plan is to look into "satcomer's" advice = Synology RT6600ax. Is this already available?

Not yet, some think it come out just before WWDC!