M1 Virtualization: UTM vs Parallels?

[bobcomer]

Mine is set to 8GB and System memory for GPU. I don't have anything else special on the config. Using latest dev build of Insider. It's also installed locally vs an external drive (sometime did this in the past.) I did set configure for to "Games Only" if that means anything.

Mine was set for 8G of RAM, but the experience was set to developer. I changed to only games and performance is indeed better. The mouse handling gets strange for swapping back and forth from the VM to the host and back, and the default full screen is a bit odd, but I guess for games, a person would want that. I normally don't have the VM full screen when working and I'm wondering if that might be the biggest difference.

I really wish Microsoft would sell licenses as I just got a reached end of service, and I don't think this build was even more than a week old, so another update and who knows what will be good and bad about it. I'm getting really tired of Windows Insider on both Arm and the x86 builds......

 

[gank41]

Mine was set for 8G of RAM, but the experience was set to developer. I changed to only games and performance is indeed better. The mouse handling gets strange for swapping back and forth from the VM to the host and back, and the default full screen is a bit odd, but I guess for games, a person would want that. I normally don't have the VM full screen when working and I'm wondering if that might be the biggest difference.

I really wish Microsoft would sell licenses as I just got a reached end of service, and I don't think this build was even more than a week old, so another update and who knows what will be good and bad about it. I'm getting really tired of Windows Insider on both Arm and the x86 builds......

The other day Microsoft acknowledged that they're basically stopping work on "Windows X", but then never really mentioned what's coming down the pipeline. I'm still thinking both Apple & Microsoft have something up their proverbial sleeves this summer for WWDC2021 and macOS 12.

 

[bobcomer]

Windows X was supposed to be the competitor of ChromeOS, and not necessarily Arm. (A skinny, cheap, Windows) Microsoft has killed off so many things like this I can't even count. They keep trying to compete with Windows itself and fail.

I doubt that Microsoft has anything to show right now, but who knows..

 

[zokstar]

Hey All,

Wanted to check how is everyone going with their virtualisation on the M1? Is Parallels still the winner these days?

Got a MBP and exploring some options.

 

[thedocbwarren]

Hey All,

Wanted to check how is everyone going with their virtualisation on the M1? Is Parallels still the winner these days?

Got a MBP and exploring some options.

For sure Parallels is the winner. UTM is flaky at best, IMHO.

 

[gank41]

Hey All,

Wanted to check how is everyone going with their virtualisation on the M1? Is Parallels still the winner these days?

Got a MBP and exploring some options.

I use a Win11 Parallels VM almost daily and have tried various builds with UTM, but Parallels FTW

 

[thedocbwarren]

I use a Win11 Parallels VM almost daily and have tried various builds with UTM, but Parallels FTW

Same here! Works very well.

 

[zarathu]

I suspect that if you have a very light load windows program that will never be ported to the Mac, that UTM would work for you. I have one that I have been running virtual box with for 10 years running windows XP. If that is all you need then you can probably save yourself the $50 for Parallels. But if you need Windows 11, and a program that needs the 7500 Geekbench mark on the CPU, then you need Parallels.

 

[thedocbwarren]

For me, UTM is so slow and buggy I'd even hesitate to even recommend it. Just my experience.

I suspect that if you have a very light load windows program that will never be ported to the Mac, that UTM would work for you. I have one that I have been running virtual box with for 10 years running windows XP. If that is all you need then you can probably save yourself the $50 for Parallels. But if you need Windows 11, and a program that needs the 7500 Geekbench mark on the CPU, then you need Parallels

 

[zarathu]

For me, UTM is so slow and buggy I'd even hesitate to even recommend it. Just my experience.

I have a program that runs great on XP, and I suspect that UTM running xp would probalby work fine. I used virtual box running xp on my late 2013 without issue.

 

[gank41]

I have a program that runs great on XP, and I suspect that UTM running xp would probalby work fine. I used virtual box running xp on my late 2013 without issue.

I've got a good working Windows XP VM going in UTM. I'm even using Windows 2000 so that I can play Space Quest. I've also just recently rediscovered my original download of Shadowgate from their initial Kickstarter, and that's working splendidly in my Parallels Win11 on ARM VM. Wasn't able to get the linux version installed in Ubuntu on ARM, though ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'm still convinced Parallels is the better option, in that "you get what you pay for", in a sense...

 

[thedocbwarren]

I've got a good working Windows XP VM going in UTM. I'm even using Windows 2000 so that I can play Space Quest. I've also just recently rediscovered my original download of Shadowgate from their initial Kickstarter, and that's working splendidly in my Parallels Win11 on ARM VM. Wasn't able to get the linux version installed in Ubuntu on ARM, though ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'm still convinced Parallels is the better option, in that "you get what you pay for", in a sense...

If it's original space quest you can compile with brew scummvm and run "natively"

 

[gank41]

If it's original space quest you can compile with brew scummvm and run "natively"

I'm not sure what this means, but I'm making it today's mission to find out. ?

They're ISO's of the original Space Quest Collection CDs 1&2


:::EDIT:::
That was quick. Found this, looks like all I need is a little time

Using ScummVM to run games instead of DosBox :: Space Quest Collection General Discussions

I want my games to run through steam, I've seen several solutions that allow you to run the games leaving steam out of the loop. I don't want that I want it to run within Steam, so I spent some time trying to tweak this. The first 5 games work with ScummVM 1.5.0 (the latest stable release). But...

steamcommunity.com

 

[thedocbwarren]

I'm not sure what this means, but I'm making it today's mission to find out. ?

They're ISO's of the original Space Quest Collection CDs 1&2

Oh you are good then. Just install via homebrew. brew install scummvm

From there you'll get an a command (the executable version I think is still under Rosetta.) run the command "scummvm" and you get a nice GUI that can import your games. You can grab th installs you have in you VM and move them on the local system. They will run as ARM games under the rebuilt engines in scummvm. It's full native and runs very well.

Check out the site here:

ScummVM

ScummVM is a collection of game engines for playing classic graphical RPGs and point-and-click adventure games on modern hardware.

www.scummvm.org

 

[thedocbwarren]

Oh you are good then. Just install via homebrew. brew install scummvm

From there you'll get an a command (the executable version I think is still under Rosetta.) run the command "scummvm" and you get a nice GUI that can import your games. You can grab th installs you have in you VM and move them on the local system. They will run as ARM games under the rebuilt engines in scummvm. It's full native and runs very well.

Check out the site here:

ScummVM

ScummVM is a collection of game engines for playing classic graphical RPGs and point-and-click adventure games on modern hardware.

www.scummvm.org

Never mind the homesite has a native download for Apple Silicon!

 

[bobcomer]

I've got a good working Windows XP VM going in UTM. I'm even using Windows 2000 so that I can play Space Quest. I've also just recently rediscovered my original download of Shadowgate from their initial Kickstarter, and that's working splendidly in my Parallels Win11 on ARM VM. Wasn't able to get the linux version installed in Ubuntu on ARM, though ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'm still convinced Parallels is the better option, in that "you get what you pay for", in a sense...

Good to know that you can get Windows 2000 running, it always BSOD's on me during the install. It must be something about my settings then...

 

[gank41]

Never mind the homesite has a native download for Apple Silicon!

And just like that I've got SQ:6 running. Only the 2nd ISO seems to work for me, the rest of the games are on the 1st disc, but that app says there's no games in that directory.. Either way, Space Quest 6! Sweeeeet...
Thanks!

 

[bobcomer]

Good to know that you can get Windows 2000 running, it always BSOD's on me during the install. It must be something about my settings then...

I was just able to get Win2000 up and running, apparently an update fixed the problem. It's actually useful speed too.

 

[zokstar]

FYI - For all the people that are running Monterey on M1. Parallels macOS VM you don't get all the features/options (no snapshots) as a Windows VM etc. More info - https://kb.parallels.com/125561

For the UTM users out there, have you been successful in creating a VM of a recent version of macOS? Do snapshots etc work?

 

[zarathu]

I was unable to get UTM to load windows. I followed all the instructions on a video online, but instead of launch XP, I got a command code window demanding some arcane programming code which I did not know. Just like when I had to install Ubuntu on a PC to run emulated mac-like interface.

I WAS able to get it to install. I NEEDED to use the example preset from UTM, WHICH was only 2kb big, but which gave the appropriate parameters for set up. Then I loaded a bootable copy of XP WHICH WAS RECOMMENDED and which didn’t even need the passcodes.

I found that I had to reinstall with 512 mb RAM because the two legacy programs I needed were written in early visual basic, which had no idea what to do with more than 512, and and would suddenly crash the whole system because of it. Back in the time when an app crash could take down the whole system with it.

 

[crashnburn]

I've got a good working Windows XP VM going in UTM. I'm even using Windows 2000 so that I can play Space Quest. I've also just recently rediscovered my original download of Shadowgate from their initial Kickstarter, and that's working splendidly in my Parallels Win11 on ARM VM. Wasn't able to get the linux version installed in Ubuntu on ARM, though ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'm still convinced Parallels is the better option, in that "you get what you pay for", in a sense...

Could you test out with a Windows 8.1 VHD? And share its performance?

I need some 2000, XP, 7 and 8.1 for older apps - Even if I don't get today's level of full native performance and it performs well enough for "its era" of CPU power - like any decent "machine" for its time that might just be enough?

Given how much power Apple Silicon generations are adding, running some old OS VMs at decent old speed (or bit better) should not be an issue? I wonder.

Thoughts?

 

[gank41]

Could you test out with a Windows 8.1 VHD? And share its performance?

I need some 2000, XP, 7 and 8.1 for older apps - Even if I don't get today's level of full native performance and it performs well enough for "its era" of CPU power - like any decent "machine" for its time that might just be enough?

Given how much power Apple Silicon generations are adding, running some old OS VMs at decent old speed (or bit better) should not be an issue? I wonder.

Thoughts?

I’m sure I could get Win7 working fine, but not sure about 8 or 8.1, though. I’m not sure if I still have any saved installers or keys. And to be honest, I’ve started using Steam in my Win11 ARM VM in Parallels instead for the few older games I liked on Win2000 and XP.

 

[crashnburn]

I’m sure I could get Win7 working fine, but not sure about 8 or 8.1, though. I’m not sure if I still have any saved installers or keys. And to be honest, I’ve started using Steam in my Win11 ARM VM in Parallels instead for the few older games I liked on Win2000 and XP.

Few Qs/ Points.

- How well was Win 7 performing? As compared to an x86/64 machine where your last ran Win 7?
Trying the gauge the performance point that Win 7 8 10 for Intel land up under VMs

- Win 8.1 is an ISO/ ESD download away (I can link it) and a DISM Apply Image/ Unattend away to a VHD - No keys needed for trial eval (I can set this up for you) - Just wish to have some reference on how well it performs.

- Hmm.. yeah Im not gaming per se - but hope to have decent perform access before / if / when I consider Apple Silicon

 

[gank41]

Few Qs/ Points.

- How well was Win 7 performing? As compared to an x86/64 machine where your last ran Win 7?
Trying the gauge the performance point that Win 7 8 10 for Intel land up under VMs

- Win 8.1 is an ISO/ ESD download away (I can link it) and a DISM Apply Image/ Unattend away to a VHD - No keys needed for trial eval (I can set this up for you) - Just wish to have some reference on how well it performs.

- Hmm.. yeah Im not gaming per se - but hope to have decent perform access before / if / when I consider Apple Silicon

Runs fine all things considering. Not for gaming, for sure, but if you just need to run an app, it does the job. Win7 actually runs great. Boots up in about 10-12 seconds, and everything works as you’d expect. Not as good as Parallels where it was easier to run in Coherence Mode or something.

 

[michalm]

I use UTM and W11 ARm and it runs very very well. The only thing it doesn't do is graphic accleration, so if you are running retina native, you will notice this (I run half the resolution to keep things smooth).

I have an x86 app I need and considering I use 5 mins/week, UTM's cost efficiency cannot be beaten. Parallels is better, of course, for 8x the cost annually.