M3 Max 16" Battery Health/Maximum Capacity

[jamdex]

Hey all

Need a little help resting my mind on what might be a non-issue. I've tried apple support and they cant grasp what i'm saying.

Got a M3 Max 16/40 64gb/1tb which i bought brand new in November and on installing coconut noticed the full charge capacity has dropped to 96% since i had it.

I have no idea what it was out of the box but it seems to be stable fluctuating around 95-96%. If it stays like that for a year or 2 i'm happy but if i drops 4-5% every 3 months obviously thats no good.

My question is, is this a the norm? I'd expect 100% from new dropping a percent every couple of months. Never paid any attention with my 2015 model which i also bought from new..

Started to run AlDente Pro last month capping at 80% and the figures are mirrored on that.

Thanks in advance

 

[MilaM]

My 2 1/2 year old MacBook (M1), has a battery capacity of 94.7% after 59 cycles. It's not my daily driver, I use it maybe half an hour per day on average. I think if the capacity stays roughly at this level, you should be fine.

MacBook batteries are rated for 1000 cycles, after which they should still retain 70% of their original capacity. Unless your battery quickly deteriorates to under 80%, I don't think Apple will do anything under warranty.

 

[smirking]

As @MilaM said, 80% is the magical number where Apple will even entertain your concerns.

Battery readings are always estimates and aren't very reliable, especially earlier in ownership before a lot of usage data has built up. Similar to you, I had one battery drop to 95% after 16 cycles.

That battery looked like it was on the fast track to death so I tried to help it die before AppleCare ran out. I had 2 months to get it from 82% to below 80% and qualify for a battery replacement. I ran it hard, but it didn't die. Instead, it went up to 84%.

Of course, batteries can't reverse aging. Likely the readings on that battery were never accurate. It probably wasn't really 95% after a month and 16 cycles.

The poor correlation with actual battery health continues to this day on that one machine. It's been almost 2 years since I tried to run down the the battery on that laptop. My wife has it now and the battery's at 82%... which has been exactly the same reading for most of the past 2 years.

There's just no way to truly know so you might as well not worry about it. If it's truly bad, it'll probably fall below 80% before your 1 year warranty expires and the service battery warning will appear to tell you to take it in for service.

 

[dizmonk]

Hey all

Need a little help resting my mind on what might be a non-issue. I've tried apple support and they cant grasp what i'm saying.

Got a M3 Max 16/40 64gb/1tb which i bought brand new in November and on installing coconut noticed the full charge capacity has dropped to 96% since i had it.

I have no idea what it was out of the box but it seems to be stable fluctuating around 95-96%. If it stays like that for a year or 2 i'm happy but if i drops 4-5% every 3 months obviously thats no good.

My question is, is this a the norm? I'd expect 100% from new dropping a percent every couple of months. Never paid any attention with my 2015 model which i also bought from new..

Started to run AlDente Pro last month capping at 80% and the figures are mirrored on that.

Thanks in advanceTh

That doesn't seem right. Try another battery app and see if you get the same info. I use iStat.

 

[jamdex]

As @MilaM said, 80% is the magical number where Apple will even entertain your concerns.

Battery readings are always estimates and aren't very reliable, especially earlier in ownership before a lot of usage data has built up. Similar to you, I had one battery drop to 95% after 16 cycles.

That battery looked like it was on the fast track to death so I tried to help it die before AppleCare ran out. I had 2 months to get it from 82% to below 80% to qualify for a battery replacement. It didn't die. Rather, it went up to 84%.

Of course, batteries can't reverse aging. Likely the readings on that battery were never accurate. It probably wasn't really 95% after a month and 16 cycles.

The poor correlation with actual battery health continues to this day on that one machine. It's been almost 2 years since I tried to run down the the battery on that laptop. It's my wife's laptop now. It's now at 82%... which has been exactly the same reading for most of the past 2 years.

There's just no way to truly know so you might as well not worry about it. If it's truly bad, it'll probably fall below 80% before your 1 year warranty expires and the service battery warning will appear to tell you to take it in for service.

Thanks for the feedback, like you said i'll probably just wait and see. If it stays around there for the next year or so i'll be happy. Need to get about 8 years out of this (thats how i justified the price to the wife anyway) so i'll keep my eye on it.

 

[jamdex]

That doesn't seem right. Try another battery app and see if you get the same info. I use iStat.

Both Coconut and AlDente are reading exactly the same..

 

[smirking]

That doesn't seem right. Try another battery app and see if you get the same info. I use iStat.

You can also go into System Report and look under Power. There should be a health rating there below the cycle count. Coconut battery gives me 94.5%. System Report is giving me 97%.

I don't know which one to believe, but I'm pretty sure Apple won't honor anything based on Coconut Battery.

 

[jamdex]

You can also go into System Report and look under Power. There should be a health rating there below the cycle count. Coconut battery gives me 94.5%. System Report is giving me 97%.

I don't know which one to believe, but I'm pretty sure Apple won't honor anything based on Coconut Battery.

There is, that says 99% which to be honest i'd expect and be fine with after a few months of heavyish use.

 

[MilaM]

You can also go into System Report and look under Power. There should be a health rating there below the cycle count. Coconut battery gives me 94.5%. System Report is giving me 97%.

Good point. I totally forgot that MacBooks now show battery health in settings.

Here are my numbers from the M1 MacBook:

Cycles: 59
Battery health (macOS settings): 100%
Coconut Battery: 95 %

The number from the Coconut app changed a bit since my last post 🙃.

 

[Reached]

Why are people so concerned with the battery health? Changing the battery is gonna be 2-300$, and it will probably still last you at least 3-4 years before that is something to even be concerned about

 

[smirking]

Good point. I totally forgot that MacBooks now show battery health in settings.
...
The number from the Coconut app changed a bit since my last post 🙃.

Someone here once mentioned that all Coconut Battery does is take readings provided by MacOS and do the math for you. In earlier version of MacOS, you could indeed verify this as any discrepancy between the max charge reported in Coconut Battery and System Report were temporary. One or the other would soon refresh and they'd end up matching.

Curiously if you look at the Power info in System Report on an Intel Mac running Sonoma, the kind of info it reports is different from an M-chip Mac. The Intel won't give you a health percentage, but it will give you a current charge. Neither gives you the maximum charge anymore. That must have gotten removed either in Sonoma or Ventura.

 

[MilaM]

Why are people so concerned with the battery health? Changing the battery is gonna be 2-300$, and it will probably still last you at least 3-4 years before that is something to even be concerned about

Apple's warranty is very short (only one year). A battery service for the Pro is 310 USD where I live. I think it's not unreasonable to want to make sure you don't have a lemon battery in your rather expensive MacBook Pro.

 

[MilaM]

Someone here once mentioned that all Coconut Battery does is take readings provided by MacOS and do the math for you.

I'm not an expert on batteries. But I have read enough about Li-Ion technology to know, that trying to calculate a % health indicator is a very complex problem. Ultimately both indicators (Coconut, or battery health in settings), are just ballpark figures. But they are probably good enough to make a judgement if your battery is roughly performing within expectations or not.

 

[jamdex]

Why are people so concerned with the battery health? Changing the battery is gonna be 2-300$, and it will probably still last you at least 3-4 years before that is something to even be concerned about

I'd rather flag up a potential issue before it costs £2-300 on this £4300 laptop.

 

[Beau10]

Use the calibration in AlDente Pro or just run it down yourself and back to 100%.

I've seen batteries swing up to 5% and 2-3% is not uncommon.

The microchip on a lithium ion battery makes capacity estimates based on continually observing voltage behavior through use. Over time, if operated in a constricted range then that estimate loses some accuracy.

All that said, batteries can come out of the factory with a bit less or more capacity than designed. So it could simply be the case you got a somewhat under capacity battery rather than it dropping like a rock.

If you review battery university, you'll see what really harms batteries is heat/voltage stress. So doing something like gaming, video work, etc while plugged in and held at 100% is pretty harsh on the battery. This is where something like AlDente can really help to keep the battery voltage lower to ameliorate some of that damage.

 

[nmart1214]

My 14 inch M1Pro dropped to 90% within about 10-12 months but has stayed at 90% for an additional 7 or so months without decreasing. It’s docked 80% of the time so I expected additional drain, but it’s honestly not bad at all when you look at it over its lifespan so far.

 

[BanjoDudeAhoy]

It’s also worth mentioning that the readings Coconut provides can vary an bit over time.
I’ve witnessed this on my Intel MBP as well as my M1 MBA - looking back at the history on my MBP just now, it was at 87%, dipped down to 82 and then went back up to 86 and so.

That laptop is currently at 80.8% according to Coconut, after 167 cycles…

 

[Timpetus]

Just keeping your battery between 20-80% charged whenever possible should be sufficient to keep the battery working well for many years. Health percentage may fluctuate a bit but it'll even out over enough time. The worst decrease is often in the first few months of use, then they tend to stabilize for a while.

 

[Lucas Curious]

my M3 Max 14" is at 54 cycles and 100%. I sometimes charge it up from dead and then drain it down to dead. try that. I dont care cause I have applecare. that full cycle or a few of them may reset the %

 

[jamdex]

Just a follow on to this, its jumped up to nearly 98% this morning. Panic over i think, i'll keep my eye on it and report any big changes.

 

[jakdaniel1975]

 

[macroumers]

Hey all

Need a little help resting my mind on what might be a non-issue. I've tried apple support and they cant grasp what i'm saying.

Got a M3 Max 16/40 64gb/1tb which i bought brand new in November and on installing coconut noticed the full charge capacity has dropped to 96% since i had it.

I have no idea what it was out of the box but it seems to be stable fluctuating around 95-96%. If it stays like that for a year or 2 i'm happy but if i drops 4-5% every 3 months obviously thats no good.

My question is, is this a the norm? I'd expect 100% from new dropping a percent every couple of months. Never paid any attention with my 2015 model which i also bought from new..

Started to run AlDente Pro last month capping at 80% and the figures are mirrored on that.

Thanks in advance

Using aldente and keeping the battery at roughtly 40% when I don't need it has been doing quite well.
If you didnt know, 40% is the ideal charge level for storing a Li-Ion battery. 40% and cool.

 

[Beau10]

Using aldente and keeping the battery at roughtly 40% when I don't need it has been doing quite well.
If you didnt know, 40% is the ideal charge level for storing a Li-Ion battery. 40% and cool.

Where did you see this? Battery university claims 3.92V per cell, which translates to 65% on their charts.

BU-808: How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries

BU meta description needed...

batteryuniversity.com

"In terms of longevity, the optimal charge voltage is 3.92V/cell. Battery experts believe that this threshold eliminates all voltage-related stresses; going lower may not gain further benefits but induce other symptoms"

3.92

1,200–2,000

65%

 

[macroumers]

Where did you see this? Battery university claims 3.92V per cell, which translates to 65% on their charts.

BU-808: How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries

BU meta description needed...

batteryuniversity.com

"In terms of longevity, the optimal charge voltage is 3.92V/cell. Battery experts believe that this threshold eliminates all voltage-related stresses; going lower may not gain further benefits but induce other symptoms"

3.92

1,200–2,000

65%

It was on the same website, how to "store"Li-Ion:

BU-702: How to Store Batteries

BU meta description needed...

batteryuniversity.com

 

[Beau10]

It was on the same website, how to "store"Li-Ion:

BU-702: How to Store Batteries

BU meta description needed...

batteryuniversity.com

View attachment 2381377

It looks like what I quoted, when following the associated link for associated issues, may just be for EV usage - they mention 3.92V being a threshold for graphite accumulation on anodes.

So I stand corrected - unless there are other issues for active usage vs. long term storage, but I can't find anything.