If a MR sweepstake is conducted in US, why there would be some other country’s law telling what to do in US?
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MacRumors Giveaways... Why are they only open to U.S. residents?
- Thread starter Fabian90
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Because the prizes would need to be shipped outside of the US.
Really?
Can you tell any reason for this?
Shipping does change the place where the seepstake takes the place.
This is well covered in the thread already with links to websites where you can find more information. Giveaways and prize contests are a very sensitive issue, given that every country has different laws and rules both in terms of government regulations, licenses, taxation, and privacy laws. Think about when you ship a package internationally. You need a customs form to declare the contents and cost of what you're shipping. It has much less to do with where the sweepstakes takes place, but rather where the prizes are going and what that country's laws are for international giveaways. MacRumors could hire an independent firm (there are many that specialize in handling the mounds of regulatory information) but they've obviously chosen the much simpler (and cheaper) route in restricting giveaways to US residents.
Exactly!
1. It isn't a sweepstake. That's a form of gambling. This is just 'sending a gift'. There's no statutory definition of a 'giveaway' because they aren't regulated.
2. YouTube, Facebook, Android Authority...etc all do international giveaways. MR just has this weird hang-up because Quebec requested the rules to the contest in French (so they took the flamethrower approach of stopped all international giveaways).
Nah, foreign laws don't apply.
Another example... a promo for Suicide Squad just popped up on Facebook. It's global and you can win some Suicide Squad merch by telling them who your favourite character is (see what they did there just to make sure it's not a 'sweepstake'?)
According to Arnold Kim this is illegal under 'international law' though. Quick! POLICE!!!!
Maybe I should compile a list to make it clear that global giveaways are definitely possible and widespread?
According to Arnold Kim this is illegal under 'international law' though. Quick! POLICE!!!!
Maybe I should compile a list to make it clear that global giveaways are definitely possible and widespread?
Hyperbole much?Another example... a promo for Suicide Squad just popped up on Facebook. It's global and you can win some Suicide Squad merch by telling them who your favourite character is (see what they did there just to make sure it's not a 'sweepstake'?)
According to Arnold Kim this is illegal under 'international law' though. Quick! POLICE!!!!
Maybe I should compile a list to make it clear that global giveaways are definitely possible and widespread?
A) was this an official Facebook thing or just a post?
B) No one ever said they were illegal.
If the answer to A) is "Facebook" then remember they're a huge company with international outreach everywhere. If it's a post then your point is meaningless.
As has been stated any number of times, MR have made the corporate decision to not risk antagonizing other markets. It's @arn's choice as a business owner to decide to follow these international rules, and this is apparently his decision.
You're more than welcome to create your own business and make up your rules.
Here is a post on a barbecue forum I frequent and their policy is pretty much the same as MR and for the same reasons.
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1. No it's not an exaggeration. If enforcement agencies were gonna target somebody it would be a big player, not some random computer blog giving away $20 gimmicks. The fact that Facebook and a major movie studio can give-away $$$ prizes sums it all up rather neatly.
2. The whole point of this thread is that people disagree with the said commercial decision. As users, we're allowed to voice our opinions if we disagree with a commercial decision. This thread is our outlet... I seriously question why people come in here to say 'stop arguing and just accept it' (hint: this thread isn't for them).
3. Thanks for your sarcastic suggestion that I should setup my own business so that I can participate in its giveaways. However, MR has already provided this thread for me to discuss the matter in and regularly promotes the usage of this thread on their frontpage (presumably becauE most of their giveaway threads get flooded with international users saying 'this is so stupid'). If you are not impacted by this particular matter and it frustrates you so much to see people talking about it (in the designated thread, setup and endorsed by MR) then you have the option of ignoring this thread
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This thread is for anyone who wants to discuss the issue, regardless of what they think about the matter.
I personally think that after the site owner has chimed in multiple times to explain his decision about his site, there's nothing left to discuss. But that has nothing to do with who the thread is for.
Yeah, I regret reading it as well. Lesson learned. Next time scroll immediately at the end of the page.After following all the steps only I saw this:
"only U.S. residents who are 18 years of age or older are eligible to enter."
I'm not a U.S. resident
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1. No it's not an exaggeration. If enforcement agencies were gonna target somebody it would be a big player, not some random computer blog giving away $20 gimmicks. The fact that Facebook and a major movie studio can give-away $$$ prizes sums it all up rather neatly.
2. The whole point of this thread is that people disagree with the said commercial decision. As users, we're allowed to voice our opinions if we disagree with a commercial decision. This thread is our outlet... I seriously question why people come in here to say 'stop arguing and just accept it' (hint: this thread isn't for them).
3. Thanks for your sarcastic suggestion that I should setup my own business so that I can participate in its giveaways. However, MR has already provided this thread for me to discuss the matter in and regularly promotes the usage of this thread on their frontpage (presumably becauE most of their giveaway threads get flooded with international users saying 'this is so stupid'). If you are not impacted by this particular matter and it frustrates you so much to see people talking about it (in the designated thread, setup and endorsed by MR) then you have the option of ignoring this thread
Again, consider the size and scale of Facebook (58,604 employees as at 12/31/2020) to MacRumors. One’s one of the largest companies in the world, the other is a private organization with, at a guess, a staff of 20 or so folk.
In addition it would not surprise me if Facebook has legal representatives on payroll or retainer in most parts of the globe. Can’t imagine @MR has anything outside the USA.
And yes, you can express an opinion. However you don’t have the right to not have other opinions expressed as well.
And as for your last point - embolden for good measure. look towards the mirror my friend - do you not feel such an opinion applies to you as much as it does to anyone?
You can complain about this until you’re blue in the face, but right now it still doesn’t look like @arn has any desire to change. At some point in time you have to accept that this is his site and he gets to decide the rules. Dog knows I’m no cheerleader for all things MR - but ultimately I, like everyone else, are playing in his sandpit.
1. It applies to everybody outside the USA and Canada, hence the existence of this thread for international users.
2. You're the one going blue in the face, comrade.
My post...
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Your posts complaining about my post:
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Who cares outside of the US, irrespective of content. At best simply laziness, at worse outright discriminative, equally MR want's us all to contribute irrespective of our geographic location. Being all too happy to take the cash as a contributor from anyone based anywhere, yet is seemingly incapable of shipping a soft toy, T-shirt or leather bag internationally. I've considered contributing for some time, however with such clear and obvious bias a solid NO.
![1633432516589.png]( "1633432516589.png")
Treat your international members fairly and stop with the excuses...
Q-6
Treat your international members fairly and stop with the excuses...
Q-6
Excellent post. As an international member this is why I will not become a MR supporter because International members are not treated equally. I've already spoken my piece earlier in this thread (think one of my posts even got removed) and well, let's just say the typical excuses were used.
MR giveaways should be for all or for none.
Apparently Arn does. It's been stated any number of times there can be legal ramifications for not obeying local laws regarding giveaways.
When you get to run a business you get to run it your way and decide if you want to run the risk of breaking those laws. Sure the risks are low, but they're still risks and Arn has decided that he does not want to risk breaking those rules.
Other companies may either decide to ignore these rules or pay for a third party to manage them. Those are business decisions that one has to look into to weigh up if it's worth the cost.
Apparently it's not currently worth the cost for Arn.
Who knows, he may decide later it is. Or not.
So just wondering what rules in the UK this falls foul of, of course this is up to MacRumors to decide the Location and rules they run by, but I don't know of any specific rule that stops a giveaway in the UK or Most of Europe, aside from potential import charges, which if your getting a product for free, why wouldn't you pay this??? all your competitions are Americas based and there's a good proportion of us that don't live there so if it is impossible why not run a promo for us outside the US????
Definitely. Seems so obvious, doesn't it? I've previously asked the same. Still waiting for a reply...
Short answer, none.
Long answer... they (inaccurately) characterise giveaways as sweepstakes (aka gambling) and are worried about falling foul of gambling laws.
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IMO a practical solution if they are worried about shipping costs and gambling regulation is to:
- Acknowledge the contribution of international members rather than including a generic (non-legal, Googled) message that dismisses them EVERY TIME.
- Change their (generic, Googled) message to something more personal like 'sorry but we are a small site and US law is stupid at times... we may be wrong about it but choose not to do international giveaways because the USA MIGHT charicterise these as sweepstakes. If it did, we don't have the resources to mount a challenge to possible fines...etc'. Make it clear this is a commercial decision, not an issue caused by the laws of foreign countries. The wording could be a lot nicer and more accurate. IMO 99% of the issue is that the generic wording (which they could just remove altogether) is what annoys people.
- Every once in a while, have some 'gifts' that only apply to international users. For example, discount codes (for the same products) + special badges on the forum and the like. IMO it wouldn't take THAT much effort to do so.
That's already been answered. You not liking the answer doesn't change the fact that an answer was indeed supplied.
Perhaps you could kindly direct me to where MR replied to my suggestion. As far as I can see, they haven't.
As I suspected, not a response to my suggestion. But thanks for your interest in my post.
Just do it IMO. Honestly... they'd save all this fuss by just saying 'US address required' instead of making an inaccurate statement of how they think the law operates. It just wastes time.